I went through this about a year ago...the dealer did take care of it for me...all Europa needs to do is get you the Gs original VIN number and then the dealer can order the key..there is a place on the engine or somewhere else that the original vin is recorded and that is all that's needed..good luck.

 

So did the dealer need to work with Europa to get the key or can I just take mine to the local MB dealer and they can order it?

Thanks!
Danny

 

Chassis VIN is stamped in the frame and is visible from the right front wheel well.

 

one of mine doesn't work

I've got 3 keys and a bare one so i'm good for now, but one of them which i bought from europa a while back isn't workingn properly. It's LED works but the darned FOB thingy wont take a programing to lock or unlock my doors. ( Know i'm doing the proper sequence to program it) Anybody know if there's any kind of warrantte on them?

Thanks ahead of time.

 

European VIN

drgork - 11/28/2005 10:06 PM

So did the dealer need to work with Europa to get the key or can I just take mine to the local MB dealer and they can order it?

Danny,

Your Euro style Chassis Number is: WDB4632411xxxxxxx, where the last six "x's" are the last six digits of your US style VIN. That is the number needed to get your key; and Europa is no longer able to get them.

 

RE: one of mine doesn't work

ewalberg - 11/29/2005 3:00 AM

Anybody know if there's any kind of warrantte on them?

Thanks ahead of time.

Only if Don Chalmers will honor one. Probably not.

 

If you think Mercedes is silly about keys. . . or, I feel your pain

My wife used to have a BMW. It had keys with the remote buttons, coded computer security chip, etc. When we bought the car, we were issued 2 electronic keys and a flat key. After a while, one of the keys wouldn't start the car. I would put it in, give it a turn, all the lights would come on, but no cranky no drivey. The other key started the car fine.

I drove the car in to the dealership where I bought it. I explained my problem to the service manager, and expected to walk out with a new key. Nope. What I learned was, that when the car was manufactured, 12 keys were made for it. No more can be made. Ever. All the keys are in Germany. "But the car's here . . . " I reasoned with the service manager, "Wouldn't it be a good idea to at least have the keys on the same continent as the car?"

"BMW is very particular about the security of these keys," he defended. So much so that when I went in to the parts manager to order the key, I was told I must supply a bill of sale to be faxed to Germany.

"But - I bought the car here. Can't you guys vouch for me, or print out a copy of the bill of sale?"

"Sorry."

So I had to go home and dig up the bill of sale, and present it at the parts counter. After the order had been placed, I left paperwork in hand. Later I received a call saying that the boys in Germany wouldn't ship the key without a copy of my driver's license. By this time I was incensed. "Having one key in my hand should entitle me to another, with no other qualification." I calmly suggested. [!] So I faxed a copy of my license. To Germany. With a little note. It said: "BMW=Scheiße."

A few days later I received a message from the parts counter that my key was in. Without returning the call, I drove in to pick it up. "Sorry again. The key needs to be programmed to match the car." "Okay. Go ahead." "There's only one guy here who can do that. He's not in today. You have to make an appointment with the service manager." I did so.

Now, on my fourth trip to the dealer - for a key - I am standing in front of the keymaster. "I need all the keys for the vehicle, and the vehicle itself. They all get reprogrammed." I swear I was ready to take a life. Why are there only 12 keys? Isn't it reasonable to beleive that all 12 could easily be lost or broken within the lifespan of the car? Why is the process for getting a key so &%$#@ cumbersome?

For this and other reasons, I'll never own another BMW.

— Spalding

2001 BMW 525i "Sport Wagon"
Duration of ownership: 20 months
5 faulty "Bank A" cam position sensors
2 faulty "Bank B" cam position sensors
faulty crank position sensor
3 chin spoilers
about a dozen brake light bulbs

 

I was able to get a replacement key through the local MB dealer for my Europa '99 G500. They used the chassis VIN referred to above, photocopied my titleand charged me $220 up front (they told me that they couldn't guarantee that the key would work, in which case I would be out of luck and out the $220). Fortunately the key worked and I ordered another. The dealer told me that there were eight keys made for each G-wagen (at least in 1999) and it would be impossible to get any more. According to their records there are two keys left for my car.

 

AG-wagen - 11/30/2005 11:12 AM
...there were eight keys made for each G-wagen (at least in 1999) and it would be impossible to get any more. According to their records there are two keys left for my car.

Man, what a lot of crazy effort. I wonder if car theft rates justify this insanely complex approach. Meaning, does the bizzarre one-time key production thing really prevent any more thefts than traditional alarm approaches?

Seems a lot like some other crime prevention efforts that I won't elaborate on. Punish the law abiding folks more than they impact the real criminals.

I could be wrong though. I wonder if there are any good stats.

-Dave G.

 

Captain Spalding - what a coincidence, I had a 2001 BMW 525i wagon with Sport Package. Not a particularly good experience. We started having problems within the first week of ownership and it stayed that way for most of the 24 months we owned the car.

AG-Wagen, I called the local dealer and they said they would be glad to help. Hopefully this will go as smoothly as your experience. I may go ahead and order 2 keys instead of one.

Danny

 

I have a total of three keys for my G-Wagon. One of my keys has a crack in the IR Lens and has a hard time activating the locks. Can they just replace that part of the key, or do I need a new key when that time comes?

 

Hipine - 11/30/2005 2:42 PM

Man, what a lot of crazy effort. I wonder if car theft rates justify this insanely complex approach...
-Dave G.

I'm sure they do. And I also expect that as the "theft by key" rates drop, the "theft by a pistol to head" rates go up. I know which way I'd rather have my vehicle stolen. No question about it.

So, I just went and had an extra copy of my key made. Thinking of course that if the plain metal slim key worked, then any keyshop could copy it, which they did. How silly of me to think it would actually work.

Garret

 

well, at least MB was always very upfront with the issue of lost keys. The manual tells you that it will not be a quick transaction.

Harald

 

One thing for sure, I will not be able to exist very long with this vehicle and only have 3 keys. My goodness, on my previous vehicle I plain wore out 2 keys, and then lost another one in a mud-hole. Dang. Gonna have to think hard on this one.

Garret

 

ScottGs, wait, you found somebody who could copy it? And it mechanically looked identical and didn't work of other reasons?

I've tried on my bare key and they say that don't have any blanks to match...

There are engineering services which can scan anything (a key being easy) and then have multiple copies made.

 

Your car's ignition is very smart. The slightest flaw in the key and the engine will not start.

Unless Mercedes makes the key, I don't think it's possible for a copied key to work.

 

Yes. The exact proper key blank is readily available. The copy I made, purely a mechanical key, will open the doors and start the car. However the computer stops the motor after about 500 milliseconds.

The problem is that the key has a "transponder chip" on it. It's basically the same type of device as a "proximity chip" or "RFID" chip, which are commonly used on security badges for door access control and tracking.

In the case of the G, when the proper key is in proximity of the ignition switch, it very quickly reads the chip embedded on the key, and if it matches what the computer expects, all is well. If not, the computer stops the motor.

It is a very small chip, incased in what appears to be small plastic vial, which is located in a slot cut right in the middle of the key top where the plastic is (on the slim key, anyway).

Yes, I x-rayed it, after it didn't work.

Oh well. It's not over till the fat lady sings!

Garret

 

Scottgs - 11/30/2005 4:00 PM
The problem is that the key has a "transponder chip" on it. It's basically the same type of device as a "proximity chip" or "RFID" chip, which are commonly used on security badges for door access control and tracking.

In the case of the G, when the proper key is in proximity of the ignition switch, it very quickly reads the chip embedded on the key, and if it matches what the computer expects, all is well. If not, the computer stops the motor.

It is a very small chip, incased in what appears to be small plastic vial, which is located in a slot cut right in the middle of the key top where the plastic is (on the slim key, anyway).

Okay, so say you took a key with a working RFID chip in it, dismantled the key, removed the chip, epoxied the chip to the ignition switch, and put yourself on the "flat key" standard. Would that work?

A second thought - I'd bet a beer that if you took your car to the dealer they could hook the ol' laptop up and program the car to ignore the absent RFID chip. There must be some contingency like that for the eventual time when all the chipped keys have been lost or broken.

 

Key with Transponder

Looking through the EPC there is this item #250 A4637601806, "Key with Transponder". Anyone tried to order one of these?

The footnotes read:

007 WHEN ORDERING, PLEASE DO NOT FAIL TO FILL OUT THE FORM COMPLETELY, AND TO PUT IT ON FILE. "ORDER FOR SPARE KEYS/LOCKING PARTS"

061 DRIVE AUTHORIZATION SYSTEM 2A (FBS 2A)
407 STATE LOCK NUMBER WHEN ORDERING

693 WHEN ORDERING, STATE LOCKING MECHANISM NUMBER, CHASSIS IDENTIFICATION NUMBER AND DRIVE AUTHORIZATION SYSTEM TYPE

Looks like a process doomed to fail, if you ask me.

 

Captain Spalding - 11/30/2005 5:46 PM

Okay, so say you took a key with a working RFID chip in it, dismantled the key, removed the chip, epoxied the chip to the ignition switch, and put yourself on the "flat key" standard. Would that work?

A second thought - I'd bet a beer that if you took your car to the dealer they could hook the ol' laptop up and program the car to ignore the absent RFID chip. There must be some contingency like that for the eventual time when all the chipped keys have been lost or broken.

The chip transplant would work. However you would loose the beer bet. (I'll accept on the next offroad trip The factory solution is to replace the engine computer if the keys have been used up.

 

The chip transplant would work...

I would be willing to bet that it would only work as long as the key being inserted into the ignition did not also have a chip. Otherwise, I suspect that if 2 chips were in close proximity of the ignition at the same time, they would both respond at the same time and conflict with each other. Don't know for sure, of course. However I plan to go out and test in a little while.

I did a little surfing, and it appears the chip in the Mercedes' key are more complicated than simple RFID keys. They are apparently quite a bit more complex. They are "rolling code" key generators that spit out a specific number based upon an internally stored cyrptographic key, which only the key and computer know. Thus the RF transmitted number will be different everytime, and only the holder of the cryptographic internal keys could ever hope to duplicate it.

Unfortunately, this makes hope of a simple solution slightly more remote.

Garret

 

The computer scrambles the code at an extraordinary large number of times, each time you pull the key from the ignition. This makes it nearly impossible for anyone to duplicate the key and steal the car.

Once you have the correct key, the computer can recognize the code and, in less than a fraction of a second, start the engine. But you have to have the chip and the key together otherwise the car is not going anywhere. []

Thugs are no match for a Mercedes. Next step: to add electric shocking doors handles ala James Bond Tommorow Never Dies style (yes, there is a company that does this).

 

Well, if g-wagens are one of the most stolen vehicles (per capita of g-wagens) in some european countries, then surely there's a way around it. Anybody have any connections in the mafia?

 

ewalberg - 11/30/2005 10:07 PM

Well, if g-wagens are one of the most stolen vehicles (per capita of g-wagens) in some european countries, then surely there's a way around it...

In Europe a Flat-bed tow-truck would do the trick. In the US, all you need is a Glock.

 

I just did some more key testing, seeing how it's about too cold to keep water in the liquid state for my leak testing.

It appears that the key transponder chip is only required during the first ignition start after the key is inserted. As long as you don't remove the key, you don't need the transponder again. In other words, I could put my newly made copy in the ignition, hold the "official" transponder key next to it, and start the vehicle. I could then take the official key in the house, and as long as I didn't remove the new key copy from the ignition switch, I could start and drive at will. Even turn the vehicle all the way off, as long as I didn't remove the key.

Also, when you try to start initially with the only the copy and no tranponder key nearby, the red and green lights on the mirrow go bezerk. And of course it won't run.

So close, there must be a way.

Garret