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1995 E320 Sportline W124
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790 Posts
M110.984 12/75-03/78
280E, 280CE
177kW/5800 rpm

M110.988
03/78-01/86
280E, 280TE, 280CE
185kW/5800 rpm
 

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1981 280e
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113 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thankyou tiger , I'm actually after the overall max the engine will safely rev to[:)]
 

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2008 PT, 1998 neon--1965 VW 1200
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2,533 Posts
aww, dont red-line it, just cruise. no need to race in a boat!
 

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1981 200 (W123)
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163 Posts
its 6,100 on my 200, i dont know why but i imagine it will be the same on the petrol models.

doesnt take much to check it out for yourself though.. shouldnt do much harm to rev it up just once.. its not like you're doing this to her everyday! ;) just make sure she's all warmed up first with oil pressure in its "warm" position, so to speak..

i got her up to the limiter quite a few times.. sometimes even unintentionally with the stereo on when i'm overtaking someone..
 

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1995 E320 Sportline W124
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790 Posts
banflu - 2/21/2005 4:37 PM

its 6,100 on my 200, i dont know why but i imagine it will be the same on the petrol models.

doesnt take much to check it out for yourself though.. shouldnt do much harm to rev it up just once.. its not like you're doing this to her everyday! ;) just make sure she's all warmed up first with oil pressure in its "warm" position, so to speak..

i got her up to the limiter quite a few times.. sometimes even unintentionally with the stereo on when i'm overtaking someone..

awww....6,100! [:O]


Hey, how's your car doing lately? New paint already?

[:)]
 

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1981 280e
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113 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Not trying to red line , curious as new tach fitted & car changing up very early in the revs IE not using the bandwidth of power , may be tranny problem.
 

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1981 200 (W123)
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163 Posts
tiger_biru - 2/22/2005 2:23 AM


Hey, how's your car doing lately? New paint already?

[:)]
hey Tiger! :)
nope no paint yet, i will take it in for the respray mid-march, .. which is in about 3 weeks time :)

up till now i have repaired all the rust and replaced drivers door and both front guards, and also installed the 16inchers and clear blinkers :)
next step is to buy the lower spring bushings to make it lower, but i am still not sure which sizes to get. 1 pin front probably, but what about the rear :confused: how can I check what size mine are, without removing them? [B)]
 

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1995 E320 Sportline W124
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790 Posts
banflu - 2/22/2005 12:24 PM

tiger_biru - 2/22/2005 2:23 AM


Hey, how's your car doing lately? New paint already?

[:)]
hey Tiger! :)
nope no paint yet, i will take it in for the respray mid-march, .. which is in about 3 weeks time :)

up till now i have repaired all the rust and replaced drivers door and both front guards, and also installed the 16inchers and clear blinkers :)
next step is to buy the lower spring bushings to make it lower, but i am still not sure which sizes to get. 1 pin front probably, but what about the rear :confused: how can I check what size mine are, without removing them? [B)]

It's very simple: Do you see the rubber sits above the rear springs? There you can see it and you can count how many pin are there.

Oh and bring flashlight[:)]
 

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1989 W201.029/M103 3.0
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244 Posts
Hiya gdbmj.

(it's me) [:D]

Is Brad on this site too? I saw a Brad, but there was no profile info, although the curt question-answer style sure sounded like him (hehe).

170-185kw on these 280E's, I'm impressed (that's around 250hp). I'm still certain there's something I can do with that intake manifolding/plenium chamber.
I'm thinking about a motec throttle body changeover, a mate on my fave sci forum gave me an idea about extendable inlet runners used on F1 motors. I can rig them up telescopically and run it off a vacuum cylinder, using the original manifolding as a frame. Maybe.

He gave me some awesome analytical engineering software anyway. Can you give me some links to full technical specs on the 2.8 110 motor? I need everything, port length, seat diameter, you name it.

I'll get a 280CE smoking the tyres and snarling away yet. Eighties Benz: looks great, drives beautifully, and pulls 13 second quaters.
[;)]
 

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1989 W201.029/M103 3.0
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244 Posts
Just thinking about your post topic, actually G, once we graph the torque and horsepower curves for your 110 motor, you can get a shift kit custom made to change into a nice spot on the peak torque figures for a good horsepower climb at full throttle upshifts.
Generallly speaking you don't want to rev the motor much past peak horsepower anyway, since it tends to drop off rather sharply as valve train problems and general volumetric efficiency interject (a few hundred revs past max power is all I'd do and only if shift gearing found this productive). In some cases it might be better to upshift well under the redline, if it puts you into a nice place in the next gear for best acceleration, ie. that's the primary consideration in terms of performance...you can play around with your torque and horsepower curves far more easily to suit that than the other way around.

Find out any factory options on interchangable gear drum sizes in those Benz autos, maybe you can play around with gearing ratios as part of an auto reco and shift kit install.
I did see a Benz custom torque converter site somewhere in my travels, you can play around with diameters on those at least.

Autos are such a hassle. W123 280's come out with 4-speeds (manual)?
 

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1989 W201.029/M103 3.0
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244 Posts
Looking up more specs online, it seems M110 engines actually range in output from 115kw to 135kw rather than up to some 185kw (110.928 motor) @ 5800rpm (which is up to around 180hp).
I find it unlikely they're designed to rev any higher than 6,000 safely (check your valve spring rates).
 

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1989 W201.029/M103 3.0
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More info.

According to the workshop manual I downloaded from the link in the technical assistance thread, the max operating speed for your 1981 model 280E is 6400rpm, with max. SAE net hp (at the wheels) of 140 @ 5500rpm (this doesn't bely manufacturer's ratings being closer to 180bhp and a little higher in rpm, 5800, at the flywheel). Even with that listed redline you'd need new valve springs with the inner/outer option and I don't really trust the spring rates from what I'm looking at so far, best way to tell is by making a few calculations and modelling them.

I can tell you right off the bat though, the way you enjoy driving you need to bin your stock exhaust for a custom fitment. You've gotta be lucky to be getting some 400cfm through that system and that's gonna start pushing hot fumes straight back up the intake valves from about 5000rpm (I'll give you some exact figures off Engine Analyzer Pro once I've modelled them).
Aim for a minimum of 800cfm (slightly port-oversized tubular headers, 35x2" minimum collectors and a free flow cat, add sports mufflers and nobody'll ever know the difference 'till they listen close or you hit the accelerator). This wouldn't be overly expensive (expect about $1300).

It's basically what contemporary manufacturers are now doing anyway, discovering all the little ways they were losing bulk hp in the 70's with computer aided engineering and a little extra tooling costs, these days.

Anyway, especially at that highway turn leaving your place, you're always going to be stretching that engine on a full throttle upshifts to get up country traffic speeds in short order. I say we get that 280 really breathing for a safer all round package.

Besides, I need something roughly associated to do whilst I'm saving for that 280CE. Believe me you'll need a head start once I've got that in the driveway...
 

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1981 280e
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113 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
ahaa you found me vanir [:D]
I've got a lot of the information you need unfortunatly
a lot of it is in german , but the horsepower & torque
graghs will come in handy
I wiil PM you brads details[;)]
 

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1989 W201.029/M103 3.0
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Hehe

How are ya G?
Okay, I've entered all the info I could get off the web and modelled a stack of combinations on estimations of certain specs. I can print out the results, which say all pretty much about the same thing for that cam/valve-train combo and manifolds setup, bore x stroke and general construction (you gotta see this software, it's awesome...I know some driver/engineers that are using it to stay competitive in open wheeled racers...the fellers that gave it to me to download after we yacked about it for a couple of afternoons).

Basically the 280E engine is keeping a big margin of exhaust residue in the cylinders, which is robbing some power (cam grinds, a little porting and tubular high flow custom system to fix). You've actually got a negative gases speed under about 4000rpm and that's part of the reason it needs to get above that to really start moving along.
Volumetric efficiency is pretty low at a best of around 92% (you really want closer to 98%), at around 5000rpm. This is your best engine revs for all round performance *and* mechanical survivability. Probably the reason it likes to shift up not much farther than this in the auto, as the sensors tell the shift kit what's going on.

Torque is strong from 3500 and really starts grunting around 4500 but 5500 is where your horsepower starts to take the reins and your volumetric and mechanical efficiency is actually starting to drop again there (lighter pistons, better quality, lower tensioned rings to fix and make sure you get the domed Euro pistons, the Aust. post-1977 flat tops return a 8:1 instead of the listed 9:1 compression),...plus your intake vacuum hits 0.7 bar and just keeps rising and that's not good. Told you that intake manifold needed some serious attention!

Now don't get me wrong, you don't need (at all) to go shoving oversized valves in it and start doing the street/strip boy racer thing, we're talking pure quality and efficiency programming here, just adding modern computer aided engineering to late 1970's Merc design protocol. They didn't have these processors and programs floating around back then...it was all prototypes and trial and error.
Check out Honda's 200hp from 1.6 litres of twin cam, shopping cart 4 cylinder if you have any doubts.



Now primarily, according to my rule of thumb models so far you need to port and polish the head, check, balance and replace your pistons if they're not domed 9:1 units (didn't have 98 octane pump grade ULP in 1977), we'll be looking at cam regrinds which we can model first, and port matching/giving the intake manifold-runners a good look. I estimated a 58mm throttle body for the models, whatever it is it needs to be a fair whack larger than that (something like 72mm or a two-stage job...you need 550cfm minimum I'd say and you'd bet getting something like 390 with a 350cfm air cleaner restriction at the moment).

Plus that exhaust system. Now whilst there's no back-throwing psi at the head (yes that stock Merc 6 into 2 manifolding is good, I estimated a 1.6" inside diameter and 5" length on each primary for the models, with a comparitively high flow coefficient, and 3-foot collectors before the cat), there's still a lot of residue and that means no scavenging effects going on.
Need tubular headers with a minimum of around 18" on the primaries I'd say, and a seriously free flow sports twin setup. Depending on your "snarl factor" around 900cfm total flow capacity through to the tailpipe(s). Stock twin is around 380cfm (you get the picture).

And we're not talking about butchering a beautiful design with hatchets and sledgehammers or anything. Just genuine appreciation of good quality with some contemporary fine tuning for cars we love and will probably hang on to for some time. I don't see a classy Merc upgraded with contemporary engineering proceedures as devalued...if anything an increase of efficency and reliability, plus 21st century performance ranges to boot.

According to my rough models, these modifications should increase peak torque to approx. [email protected] with around 195ft.lbs. available at 4500 (old peak [email protected] open headers, these projected stats are with a full aftermarket exhaust system), plus around [email protected] with 215bhp available at 5800 (old peak [email protected]).
The real beauty is around 180ft.lbs. or better torque available at 3500rpm, which makes a real grunter in terms of off the line acceleration.

For more accurate models, I need a few extra specs. If you'd like to post these or I'll wait until I'm up at your place next time to look them up.
Throttle body diameter.
Int. and Ex. port widths and heights (av. diameter).
Intake runner inside diameter.
Port lengths (from valve to facing).
Camshaft lift and rocker arm ratio (I used estimates until I got stock ratings...I already have the timing and duration).
I think that's about it, I managed to get most of the other info.
[8D]
 

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W123 280E
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112 Posts
Vanir

That sounds good. I'm going to do some basic tune-up to my engine next summer. Port & polish, camshafts, new intake manifold with two throttle bodies, headers, K-Jet adjustments and modifications, and basic repairs of course. Compression ratio will be slightly increased too (9.5-10.0). Aiming to get useable revs up to 7krpm, peak hp at ~6500rpm. The real challenge is to keep those W201 and W124 200D turbos behind me. [:D]

Maybe the fuel consumption will be better too.. Or worse, actually i don't care. Now it's about 6 to 18 MPG, depends how i drive.

Do you know the stardard camshaft measures (euro)? I've been looking for them, but not found. [V]
 

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1981 280e
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113 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I'm good V
Having major probs with adsl so a bit slow in catching up[:(].
I sure I have most of the info , will try and dig it all up.
I'm going to try and do the valve ajustment on saturday
as finally got a 3/8 torque wrench so it can be done properly[:)].
Hope to catch you soon[:D]
 
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