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1976 406 w/ backhoe and dozer blade, a small collection of implements too
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Discussion Starter #1
Hey there gents.

I have a couple of extra single speed PTO gear boxes for my 406 (one I removed and replaced it with a two speed, the other was a result of a less than ideal vendor I dealt with) and just noticed that a person is looking for one in the for sale / wanted section but that person has a 404.

Now, as I recall, the 406 and 404 have essentially the same main transmission body so would the single speed PTO gear box be common between them? None of my PTO gear boxes have any part numbers on them (except ALL of them have 540/1000 cast into them, which is annoying) so I can't look it up that way.

Even if a 406/416 box can go on a 404, what would the rpm out put be? I ask because I can personally confirm that the 2 speed PTO gear box will fit on a standard 6 speed 406 transmission, however it results in a 540 / 200something rpm output. Kinda sucks to find that out after all the work it takes to install one of these bad boys.

I have no idea what 404s normally have for speed output as the PTOs are more intended for winch operation, not PTO driven implements. They may well run slower.

To clear up this tangent: the 2 speed only provides the proper output speeds when one has the cascade gear box. Can't really see why Mercedes would have done it like that but reading between the lines, the shop manual says you can only have the two speed with the cascade so that's data point number two.

Thanks
 

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a couple round ones
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The body of the 404 is essentially a rectangle whereas the 406/16 is definitely not a rectangle
2651178
 

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1976 406 w/ backhoe and dozer blade, a small collection of implements too
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1,495 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for that. Case definitely closed then.

Short of strapping a 404 to the front of my mog and restraining it as we slowly descend some steep trails due to a loss of brakes. I have no 404 experience.

Learned something new today.

Much appreciated.
 

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Hi.
I also have a similiar problem.
My 406 was originally has a 6 speed gearbox with a cascade unit (inside is empty). Then i converted 6 speed into 2x4 speed with some modifications on gear plate.

And, i also have a 2 speed PTO newly bought.

So.. i wont be able to use 2 speeds (540/100) on my PTO ??

Isnt there any solution to that?

Regards.
Elbruz.
 

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1987 Unimog SEE
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So, if the 1000/540 pto runs at 540/200 on the 6 speed transmission, then I wonder if the high speed PTO off a FLU would run closer to 1000 RPM? I’ll try to get a Photo of it to see if it would mount.
 

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1976 406 w/ backhoe and dozer blade, a small collection of implements too
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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Hi.
I also have a similiar problem.
My 406 was originally has a 6 speed gearbox with a cascade unit (inside is empty). Then i converted 6 speed into 2x4 speed with some modifications on gear plate.

And, i also have a 2 speed PTO newly bought.

So.. i wont be able to use 2 speeds (540/100) on my PTO ??

Isnt there any solution to that?

Regards.
Elbruz.
I'm afraid the two speed PTO will not give 540/1000 in your instance. The conversion to 2x4 does not change the gear going to the PTO..

The 2x4 is a good improvement though. I was always hunting for 2-1/2 gear. Once I put the 20 speed in, I was happier.
 

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1973 416 Doka, 1978 416 Doka, 1980 416 Doka..... Help me, I can't stop buying them!!!
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So, if the 1000/540 pto runs at 540/200 on the 6 speed transmission, then I wonder if the high speed PTO off a FLU would run closer to 1000 RPM? I’ll try to get a Photo of it to see if it would mount.
The PTO on the SEE trucks is only for a hydraulic pump mount. Will not work with the shafts and is mounted to the side of the cascade box. So you need the box with the big hole in the side to mount it to. Also the side PTO where the shafts are mounted to will not fit on at the same time, as they get in the way of each other.
 

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Hi.

My Unimog now under restroration. Engine is removed.

I had a 6 speed gearbox. Then i converted it into 2x4.

And also i have a 2 speed PTO. 540/1000.

Today i made a simularion with an exteranl power and managed to turn the gearbox.

Everything was perfect.

Results :
In LOW RANGE : 4 forward, 4 reverse worked as expected.

In HIGH RANGE : 4 forward was perfect. Reverse lever did not function as expected.

PTO : i did not count the rpm but, it was visible that in 1000 lever engaged, rotation was pretty faster compared to 540 mode.
So. I assumed that, when 1000 lever engaged, it will not turn slower then 540 as stated that it is turning around 200 rpm.

When i complete the tests proparly, i will share more reuslt here .

Regards.
Elbruz.
 

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And my further project is :
My current gearbox's cascade room is empty.
I will replace it witha fully cascade gearbox.
And again i will convert it into a 2x4 pattern.

So.. i need your helps.. if it is possible a cascade gearbox with a 2x4 pattern, then what would be the gearing pattern? It is possible? Any examples of such mod?

Your contributations will be appreciated.

Regards.
Elbruz.
 

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In HIGH RANGE : 4 forward was perfect. Reverse lever did not function as expected
This is expected and the reverse lever should be locked out in high range. Reverse can not function in high gear on a UG2 transmission. This is because the reverse gear is driven from the low range shaft. In low range the input shaft drives the low range shaft, which then drives the main/counter shafts directly or via the reverse gear. In high range the input shaft is directly coupled to the main shaft. See the diagram here from a 419 transmission (same basic setup as a 416):

The UG1 transmission from a 404 has a different set of gears and syncronizers, but the power flow is very similar. Reverse can only be powered from the low range shaft:

And my further project is :
My current gearbox's cascade room is empty.
I will replace it witha fully cascade gearbox.
And again i will convert it into a 2x4 pattern.

So.. i need your helps.. if it is possible a cascade gearbox with a 2x4 pattern, then what would be the gearing pattern? It is possible? Any examples of such mod?
In a 404/406 without a cascade gearbox, the PTO gear is driven by the low range shaft. In the 419 transmission the PTO gear is driven by the PTO shaft which is driven from the cascade section, run thru the center of the low range shaft, and out the other side. I have not seen a 406/416 gearbox with the cascade section, but without cascade gears, to know how it is setup.
 

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2652518
2652519


My Gearbox is as above.
Cascade section dotn have crawler gear sets.

Only that 2 gears.
The gear downside is driving the PTO.
 

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Yes, that would be it. It is hard to see in the 419 transmission do to all the gears in the cascade. Top behind the shift fork is the cascade reduction shaft. Middle is the input shaft, cascade/direct syncronizer. Below the input shaft is the PTO shaft to the main transmission. Bottom is the idler gear for the cascade-mounted PTO on the 419.
 

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