Mercedes-Benz Forum banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

· Registered
190E 1.8L Auto
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, I received my 190E 1.8 about 5 days ago, and I've been trying to compile a list of things that need fixing. I knew the car had some pretty major engine problems before I bought it, and because I am strapped for cash, I'm happy doing most of work myself if I can. I just need to find out what the problems are and prioritize the order with which I'll fix things. Any help suggesting what to fix first is much appreciated.

You guys seem to know your cars pretty well, so I'll just list down symptons and what I think the problem is. Any input on things that I don't know or mistakes that I've made will be great. Also, if you could tell me whether changes and replacements are easy enough to be done at home, I'd appreciate that.

This is going to be a long read, but I really do need the help.

Symptons
--------
Hard startes, needs a good nudge on gas while starting, sometimes more than once. Starte motor sounds fine. Right after it starts, sputtering with plenty of engine knock, like its running on 3 cylinders instead of 4. Also, if the car is slightly cold, it will sputter on acceleration from a stand still, knocking all through first up to second gear, but sometimes it doesn't do that. The car is as smooth as butter above 40mph though, and on the motorway, it runs great, purring its way happily at 70mph. It has no problem looking for gear.

My diagnosis
------------
I know from the car's previous owner that the spark plugs need replacing. I'm guessing they explain the hard start and the sputtering, as well as the knock during acceleration from a standstill. I'm also suspecting a set of dirty fuel injectors, or clogged fuel rail.



Symptoms
--------
Chain noise from bottom right of car at idle, as well as rolling starts, up to 30mph. No grating noise, just sounds like a loose chain.

My diagnosis
------------
No clue. It doesn't seem to be affecting performance, it's just a noise, but I'm concerned it might be something serious that needs to be looked at.



Symptoms
--------
Car overheats in stuck traffic. Temperature shoots past 80 while oil pressure is 2.something. If the car is in D at a stoplight, the car shakes, threatening to stall. Once shifted into neutral, it idles at 1000rpm, which I think is too high.

My diagnosis
------------
I'm sure the water pump needs replacing, and maybe a radiator and cooling system flush. There is defintely no coolant loss because I check the reservoir bottle every day and it hasn't moved, which means I'm not losing water. The previous owner told me the water pump defintely needs replacing (find out why below). That explains the overheating, but doesn't explain the stall threat in D.



Symptoms
--------
On full wheel lock, the car stalls, in both D and R.

My diagnosis
------------
Previous owner told me he blew the head gasket while stuck in traffic in London. The car overheated (due to faulty water pump), and they got his engine block welded. The technicians told him that there was 'compression' loss and that was why the car stalled on full wheel lock. To me, that doesn't make sense because the car runs like silk over 40mph. I've tried kickdowns and the car will happily go for hours at 80. The acceleration is pretty impressive, and eventhough I've never experienced the 1.8's performance, I can tell it has gobs of torque. I can't see how there is compression issues in one of the cylinders. Also, my old man has an 84 200, and it had the same problem (nearly stalling on full wheel lock). Turned out to be electrical. In my car, the alternator and battery have been recently replaced.


This car probably sounds like a dump, and in all likelihood it probably is. I have to live with it for a while, so I have to figure a way to keep it in running order without dishing out a fortune for a new engine. Gradually though, I would like to fix it up, slap on an intake and resell it.

Besides getting rid of it, what do I need to do? Cheers to all who've helped me so far.
 

· Registered
1991 190e 1.8 Euro
Joined
·
15 Posts
I have the same car 1991 190e 1.8 Euro RHD (UK spec)so I'll try to help you as much as I c...

I have the same car 1991 190e 1.8 Euro RHD (UK spec)so I'll try to help you as much as I can.

When I first took over the car, not sure of the previous owner's service history, I did the following as a start :

Ignition stuff : Spark plugs, cables, distributor cap, rotor.

Engine stuff : Fully synthetic oil change, oil filter, air filter, fuel injector cleaner.

The car had no hardstart problems cold or warm.Idling solid.

Then, I had an overheating problem.So I sorted out the auxiliary fan wiring (fan was not turning on).Although the running temps were now better but still close to 100deg C start-stop traffic.I checked and traced a faulty electromagnetic clutch, which was not turning the clutch fan on.Now the running temps in traffic hover between 85 to 90 deg C - never higher.

If your car is running hot when you are stationary, chances are the fan(s) is/are not working.If it runs hot while the car is at speed, normally it's the thermostat that has stuck closed.I am assuming coolant does not leak and the water pump is working.

Car stalling/almost stalling at full steering lock?Check your power steering fluid level.

Please let me know if there is more you wish to know about the car with respect to problems/maintenance/accessories etc.

Cheers.
[:D]
 

· Registered
190E 1.8L Auto
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks...

I haven't gotten round to doing a full oil + filter change, but I have bought fuel cleaner and will dump it in today, since I have drive to London.

I'm pretty certain the overheating is a pump problem, but thanks for the tip anyhow. If replacing the pump doesn't solve it, I'll know where to look.

Thank you for your help. I'll be sure to tell you if I need anything else. I just need to get round to actually starting work on the car.
 

· Registered
350SLC, 500SLC, 300TE, 190E2.3 Sportline
Joined
·
687 Posts
You are at risk of spending a lot of time and possibly money uneccesarily. As I suggested ...

You are at risk of spending a lot of time and possibly money uneccesarily. As I suggested in my reply to your other post, your car has all the symptoms of a the ECU not operating. A common cause of this fault is a blown fuse on the overvoltage protection relay or the relay itself. You must check that the ECU is receiving power before continuing trying to rectify the faults you describe. If loading the engine (eg. in gear, full steering lock, air-con on) cause the idle speed to drop, then it is a fair bet that the ECU is not operating. Some years ago, I purchased a used '92 180E (low cost version of the 190E 1.8 here in Aus). It had the same symptoms you describe, difficult cold starting followed by lean running until warm, high idle speed etc. A new fuse in the OVP relay and it was an entirely different car. Coincidently, it had a new battery. The blown fuse may have resulted from jump starting due to a flat battery prior to my purchase. It is interesting you mention yours recently had the alternator and battery replaced. Please check the OVP fuse before you do anything else.

Regarding the "overheating" it is quite normal for the temperature to rise to just over 100 in traffic. The coolant thermostat only begins to open once the temperature is well over 80. At 100 the fan clutch engages so at temperatures below this only movement of the car pushes air through the radiator. Obviously in traffic due to lack of air flow, the temperature will rise until the fan clutch engages. If the temperature continues to rise beyond this the electric auxiliary fan will switch on. Many people are alarmed by so called overheating in MBs, but temperatures from about 85 to over 100 are normal. Only if it gets over 110 should you start to get concerned. Boiling will not occur until over 120.
 

· Registered
190E 1.8L Auto
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The all elusive OVP

I feel like a right dunce now, but I checked behind the battery, took out the black protective shield, found the ECU but for the life of me can't find the OVP (neither relay nor fuse). What am I looking for? There is a grilled unit to the right of the ECU, and there's a flat, semi circular object to the left of the ECU. Which one is it? And once I've found it, how do I know its busted? Am I looking for a fuse?
 

· Registered
1991 190e 1.8 Euro
Joined
·
15 Posts
OVP

In my car, the OVP is located to the left of the ECU.

It was a silver relay with black top (and 1 fuse in it when you open the top transparent flip cover).

I swapped it to an upgraded version - silver with red top (and 2 fuses under the top transparent flip cover) to solve an intermittent "stalling when coming to a stop problem.

Here's a photo of the upgraded OVP with red top.

Cheers, my friend.
[:D]
 

Attachments

· Registered
190E 1.8L Auto
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Goddamit! Found it!

Thank you, thank you babybenz!

I wouldn't have found it without the pic. There is no way I would have known there was anything with a FUSE next to the ECU!

Anyway, as most of you suspected, the fuse is blown. I have taken it out and will now frame it as a momento. Tomorrow, it's Halfords for a replacement and hopefully, some of my problems will go away.

BTW, to those following my saga, I've replaced the spark plugs (after struggling with the last one towards the cockpit, such a tight squeeze between the block and cowling). I can't really tell whether there is a noticable difference - will tell you guys tomorrow when I take it for a drive.

Watch this space!
 

· Registered
350SLC, 500SLC, 300TE, 190E2.3 Sportline
Joined
·
687 Posts
Re: Goddamit! Found it!

Thank you, thank you babybenz!

I wouldn't have found it without the pic. There is no way I would have known there was anything with a FUSE next to the ECU!

Anyway, as most of you suspected, the fuse is blown. I have taken it out and will now frame it as a momento. Tomorrow, it's Halfords for a replacement and hopefully, some of my problems will go away.

BTW, to those following my saga, I've replaced the spark plugs (after struggling with the last one towards the cockpit, such a tight squeeze between the block and cowling). I can't really tell whether there is a noticable difference - will tell you guys tomorrow when I take it for a drive.

Watch this space!
That's great! I'm glad you found the fuse blown. Without that fuse the ECU does not operate and the engine is in "limp home mode" running only on the mechanical K-Jetronic, rather than KE-Jetronic that it should be. All being well a new fuse and you will think you've got a new car! It should be the least expensive tune-up you've ever done. Keep us informed.
 

· Registered
1991 190e 1.8 Euro
Joined
·
15 Posts
OVP

Good job!

Your first DIY kill!

Cheers, and let us know the results!
[:)]
 

· Registered
190E 1.8L Auto
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Certainly not my first DIY job, but it is my first on a German. I'm used to working on Jap...

Certainly not my first DIY job, but it is my first on a German. I'm used to working on Japanese cars, and I had a heavily modified Mitsubishi Colt (coupe Lancer). No more.

Anyway, took the car out today, still hard to crank to a start, still rough idle, but no more sputtering what so ever. Just silky smooth acceleration.

There's still a clanking noise that I suspect is the timing belt, but I won't make any judgements until I've got the fuse installed.

Will keep you guys posted, and thanks for the support.
 

· Registered
MB 190E 2.0
Joined
·
2 Posts
Re: Certainly not my first DIY job, but it is my first on a German. I'm used to working on Jap

There's still a clanking noise that I suspect is the timing belt, but I won't make any judgements until I've got the fuse installed.
I have got the same noise in my car as well.
My guess is that the tensioner pulley is ready for replacement.
Listened to it with a stetoscope device. Heard a loud rattling noise coming from it, also the alternator made some rattling noise.
I would try running the engine without the auxillary drivebelt It is certainly my first priority when I get the time. Good Luck.
 

· Registered
190e 1.8 Manual 91
Joined
·
8 Posts
I have just got a 91 1.8 manual and am trying to diagnose a rattle from the engine compart...

I have just got a 91 1.8 manual and am trying to diagnose a rattle from the engine compartment.

What I have discovered so far is that a lot of noise can be generated from the rubber accessory belt, the noise usually comes from a small shock absorber connected to the tensioner. However my 1.8 doesnt have one of these. The belt is very worn and cracked etc so hopefuly a new one will quiet it down.

The other noise problem can come from a worn timing chain tensioner. These are cheap to replace and are accessable from behind the alternator. I have yet to take my alternator off to check mine.

If your water pump is worn I would imagine this will also be noisy.
 

· Registered
1991 190e 1.8 Euro
Joined
·
15 Posts
You should have a tensioner shock for the accessory belt.

My pal's 190E had a failed te...


You should have a tensioner shock for the accessory belt.

My pal's 190E had a failed tensioner so he got a dealer to install a new one (comes in a repair kit).

Before he had it replaced, there was a distinct rattling from the left hand side of the engine near the front.

Mine also intermittently demonstrates a sewing machine kind of tapping which increases with rpms (nonexistent at idle).Sound comes from same place within engine bay.

Now, the sound has disappeared on mine for a couple of months.It's a failing tensioner shock as well.

I drive a 1991 190e 1.8 and my pal drives a 1992 190e 1.8.My kid brother has a 1990 190e 1.8 and all of our cars have RHD and have the belt tensioner.

Yours should have it too coz our cars are similar to the UK spec 1.8s.

Cheers.
[:D]
 

· Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Also rattling!

Well, as you have read in my previous messages, my 190E 2.3 8v (1992) also makes a rattle. Next week I will take it to a Mercedes dealer to have it fixed. I hope they don't have to change the whole tensioner assembly, that will cost about 500 dollars! Hopefully changing only the belt and the shock absorber will cure the problem.
About the blown ECU fuse, does someone know if that's a common problem in 190E 2.3 also? Is it located in the same place? How do you gain access to that fuse? I am anxious to see if mine is blown too!

Best regards.

Hellme, I hope you get all your problems solved. When so, carry the car to the previous owner to see its face ;-)
 

· Registered
1991 190e 1.8 Euro
Joined
·
15 Posts
Yes, the OVP in your car is at the same position.I checked the W201 MB Service CD.

It s...


Yes, the OVP in your car is at the same position.I checked the W201 MB Service CD.

It should be a silver relay with a red top (updated version with two 10A fuses on top) or black top (with one 10A fuse).

Theres a clear plastic cover on the top of the relay that flips open to expose the relay(s).

You can then pull the relay(s) out for testing.

Cheers.[:D]
 

· Registered
1991 190e 1.8 Euro
Joined
·
15 Posts
Yes, the OVP in your car is at the same position.I checked the W201 MB Service CD.

It s...


Yes, the OVP in your car is at the same position.I checked the W201 MB Service CD.

It should be a silver relay with a red top (updated version with two 10A fuses on top) or black top (with one 10A fuse).

Theres a clear plastic cover on the top of the relay that flips open to expose the relay(s).

You can then pull the relay(s) out for testing.

Cheers.[:D]
 

· Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Another interesting question

Thanks, Babybenz!
"Unfortunately", my fuse was OK. However, I found something very interesting: it is a kind of rotary adjustment with numbers near the ECU, very similar to the one that is in near the ignition ECU, in the opposite side of the hood. What is this new adjustment? I have heard about an adjustment of the ignition timing, but that should be near the ignition ECU, so I assume it was the other. Can it be something related to the enrichment of the mixture as it is near the fuel injection ECU?
Babybenz, if you have the service CD, could you please check this? I would be very pleased to be able to change it (I have heard that the previous owner had "something" changed to gain in economy at the expense of performance, perhaps is this!)
 

· Registered
190e 1.8 Manual 91
Joined
·
8 Posts
Thanks for the info on the Tensioner.The noise has nearly all gone since I put a fresh b...

Thanks for the info on the Tensioner.
The noise has nearly all gone since I put a fresh belt on, but there is a definate rattle at low revs. I will probably fit a shock as they are quite cheap.

I'm currently trying to track down a hesitation problem.

The engines in these cars are pretty complex!

Hey, Babybenz are you Ahzari from the mercedesshop forum?
 

· Registered
1991 190e 1.8 Euro
Joined
·
15 Posts
Yep, Duncan.

The one and only...[}:)]...


Yep, Duncan.

The one and only...[}:)]
 

· Registered
1991 190e 1.8 Euro
Joined
·
15 Posts
The rotary switch is a variable resistor for the EZL timing.

S infinite ohms, 0deg 98oc...


The rotary switch is a variable resistor for the EZL timing.

S infinite ohms, 0deg 98octane
2 2400 ohms, 2deg 95octane
N 1300 ohms, 4deg 93octane
4 750 ohms, 6deg 91octane (the US setting)
5 470 ohms, 8deg 89octane
6 220 ohms, 10deg 87octane
7 0 ohms, 12deg ???

In my car, and I believe it's the same on Duncan's, the switch is at position S.

Cheers.[:)]
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top