Princess Diana's W140 S-Class

you guys make me laugh
There is nothing wrong with the S280, how can you diss it without even having ever driven one.

It was never released in N.America because the gas guzzling mentality there is that anything less than 3000cc is underpowered, hence benz thought it would not sell

I really dont understand why you need large engines as you cant even drive over 55mph

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Mate, we in America don't have Federal 55 mph limits anymore. That's been abolished eight years ago. Every state in America decides what highways the speed limit is now. As a matter of fact, until recently Montana had no numerical speed limit! (Safe & Prudent speeds to be judged by the driver & conditions). Now their speed limit is 75 during the day. Where I live in TX some highways are 65mph - others 60. So speed limits can range to 50mph-75mph now in the US. 75mph is 5mph OVER your UK national speed limit!

Secondly as fuel here in the US is cheaper and that MB can only bring only so many MB cars from Germany under a tarriff-based allotment, they choose the best equipped-fully loaded models with bigger engines. Secondly, it costs millions of dollars to certify an engine with the US government to meet smog laws via tests & the like. Hence, we here in the US dont have the same wide-engine ranges that you Europeans tend to enjoy.

Keep in mind though, that a new MB costs us LESS than what u pay in ripoff Britian for a lesser model as well, since the USA is MB's largest market and that our taxes are lower.

Hopefully that'll explain why MB doesn't market the S280 in North America.

merouby - 1/21/2004 4:45 AM

you guys make me laugh
There is nothing wrong with the S280, how can you diss it without even having ever driven one.

It was never released in N.America because the gas guzzling mentality there is that anything less than 3000cc is underpowered, hence benz thought it would not sell

I really dont understand why you need large engines as you cant even drive over 55mph

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Mate, we in America don't have Federal 55 mph limits anymore. That's been abolished eight years ago. Every state in America decides what highways the speed limit is now. As a matter of fact, until recently Montana had no numerical speed limit! (Safe & Prudent speeds to be judged by the driver & conditions). Now their speed limit is 75 during the day. Where I live in TX some highways are 65mph - others 60. So speed limits can range to 50mph-75mph now in the US. 75mph is 5mph OVER your UK national speed limit!

Secondly as fuel here in the US is cheaper and that MB can only bring only so many MB cars from Germany under a tarriff-based allotment, they choose the best equipped-fully loaded models with bigger engines. Secondly, it costs millions of dollars to certify an engine with the US government to meet smog laws via tests & the like. Hence, we here in the US dont have the same wide-engine ranges that you Europeans tend to enjoy.

Keep in mind though, that a new MB costs us LESS than what u pay in ripoff Britian for a lesser model as well, since the USA is MB's largest market and that our taxes are lower.

Hopefully that'll explain why MB doesn't market the S280 in North America.

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Here we go again...another benzworld member who thinks i am attacking the US of A and their liking for BIG engines.

Look, if you had bothered to read the rest of the posts you would have realised the point i was trying to make about the assumptions one has over 'smaller' engined cars without having any personal experience. How can one know that the S280 is underpowered without first hand experience?

Yes you are right, we are ripped off in the UK. especially for fuel. We pay $110 US dollars to fill our W140's up of which $88 US dollars is tax and goes into our governments pocket. Our taxes are high, but our lifestyle and social care system is completely different to yours.

(1)We have no toll roads
(2)We operate a welfare state
(3)Free hospital/health care to our entire population
(4)Free education for our youth
(5)Everyone is entitled to a government pension and care in their old age
(6)Our unemployed and homeless are housed and given an allowance

Mercedes do not sell smaller engined cars in the USA, not because of equipment levels, the S280 can come just as highly specified as the S600, but because smaller engined and smaller cars do not sell in the USA - that is a matter of fact.

You guys dont have the A class mercedes, not because its not a luxury model or lower specified, but it wouldn't sell in your country due to the fact of its size.

You like so many others who dont read or listen to the point I was trying to get across, have taken offence to what was intended to be no more than my observation on how one can dismiss that of which they have no first hand experience. No doubt the fact that I have replied to your post will spark some heated reply.

(1)We have no toll roads
(2)We operate a welfare state
(3)Free hospital/health care to our entire population
(4)Free education for our youth
(5)Everyone is entitled to a government pension and care in their old age
(6)Our unemployed and homeless are housed and given an allowance

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Mate, let me clue you in on something - i'm a UK resident (the rest of my family is British) [)] I wasn't taking the mick with what i was saying. But let me answer the above topics you raised:

Canada offers the same as you claim in Britian and yet their fuel is MUCH cheaper. The cheek is i can fuel my car here using BP (as in British Petroleum) for a fifth of what you pay.

Secondly, you do operate a toll road - the first one, designed to run parallel with the M6.

We in America also offer social services including free healthcare for poor & retired people including free prescriptions, unemployment benefits and welfare (if you can't work), disability and social security - a pension for the aged. And despite what you may have heard, we offer free clinics and no hospital can refuse a patient in need of emergency care no matter if they have health insurance coverage or not. That's the law. Yet we can get away without fleecing the motoring public at large.

Your free education no longer applies to Uni/College as your students are laden with top-up-fees, 25 year student loans and tuition. Thank New Labor for that one. [!] Our education is also free up to Uni (unless you wish to pay for private tuition) and our State colleges and State Uni's are subsidized.

If the unemployed are housed and given a stipend, then how comes there's plenty on the street of London, Leeds, etc. panhandling and sleeping in the rough?? Here in the USA, we have women having babies without a husband just to get free housing and benefits - just like what happens in the UK.

Anyway you probably thought I was Yank that was not clued into British mainstream (granted most Yanks aren't). On the contrary, I lived in Britian for many years and left recently, since it's become too dear for me to live there under New Labor. Bad enough my council taxes have risen 60% under their regime (yes I own two homes in Britian yet).

Getting back to the point, America is getting the A-class Merc in late 2004 http://www.benzworld.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1123784&posts=29&fid=8 including the Smart car. Perhaps it's time to emigrate geezer! [] No heated words here, just clearing up some issues - you're alright in my book - the fact that your a Brit and a Merc owner sees to that []

Also considering the point that lesser engined Mercs can't sell in America, why then were cars like mine (W126 1984 300SD) sold *exclusively* in the North American market??

Surely, my five cylinder S-class puts out LESS horespower and torque than a comparable W126 280 SE?!

Perhaps because perhaps diesels needn't meet the same certification program ($$) as gassers do and that some people prefer the longetivity and less maintance a MB diesel delivers. But the diesels did sell well here and yet oddly weren't sold in the European market (in the W126) where fuel is more expensive. Very odd that is!

If Princess Di's car was a W140 S280, again I could see the same car marketed here. But for my reasons stated two posts above, i can see why MB didnt sell them in the US. MB makes more $$ off of the bigger engined cars too. It's a win/win situation for them to offer the bigger motors fully loaded. Hence, no Merc sold in America in nearly the last 20 years ever came with hubcaps (wheel trims), without aircon and none came with manual windows in the rear, whilst power windows soley in the front! [?] Believe it or not, in Europe MB still sells cars this way. It's cheaper for the consumer.

Whew, boy this was interesting! To try to answer some of the questions put forth in my HUMBLE opinion.

The 300SD came to America because Americans (and I am one so don't fuss at me) complain when gas goes up (it's now $2.70 in Kentucky for premium). The large diesels were sent here for Americans that wanted the Mercedes-Benz prestige and reliability but wanted better fuel economy. Germans at that point considered the diesels as fit for a taxi and not much else (boy, haven't things changed!).

As for the crash that tragically killed Princess Diana and Dodi al Fayad, there was a LOT of misinformation that was being spread around after the crash. For instance, one national US newscast put a reporter and a driver in an S600 and went through the tunnel, the whole time the driver was talking about how powerful the car was and how difficult it was to keep the speed down to 80MPH. Now we know that it was an S280 which although isn't as slow as 220D, it is not nearly as fast as an S600 (before you start, I drove an S280 in Germany and it was a wonderful car!)
They then harped on the drunk driving angle until a medical examiner from France said it's not unusual for bodies to have elevated alcohol levels if you wait to test the blood until the autopsy's being performed, so who knows...not me that's for sure.[]

Princess Diana, may the Lord Jesus Christ rest her soul, must have experienced the finest of everything. Just imagine. The restaraunts, clothing shopping sprees with personally tailored clothing, the numerous and varied automobiles, castles, homes, resorts, hotels. I often stay at The Drake in Chicago and the fine folks up in the executive lounge relay stories about when Di stayed there, such a rich quality of life. Sad to see it end.

I imagine that this S280 was a very fine auto and she probably enjoyed it. Her date may have detracted her a bit from the experience of the car, of course, but most people look at a car like that and think, 'my, my, it's a mercedes benz'! Most really have no idea what the s or 280 designations mean, and when out in public, celebrities really only care about the 'perceptions' . And, as a lady, she probably didn't know the difference between a 280 and a 600 (no offense intended to chicks who are motorheads).

W140Gill said:

Hi Barry,
I think you misunderstood my point. I am by no means personally attacking my buddies in the USA.I understand your point about mountainous country and about pulling power, BHP etc etc. Everyone, myself included, find a larger engined vehicle desirable. The point I was trying to make is that how can those whom have never driven a S280 state that its underpowered?. Indeed, there are those who have never driven an S320 and those same people will say that the S320 is underpowered. As you and I both know this isnt the case. All I am trying to say is that 'dont dismiss that of which you (not you personally of course[]) have no experience'.

The S280 is a formidable vehicle that is only available in SWB so has an immediate weight advantage over a S320 LWB. It uses the same M104 straight six twin cam 24valve benz engine that's in the S320 with a slightly smaller bore on each of the cylinders. Like my buddy ///S320 was saying, it extreme engineering. The fuel consumption is less than that on a M104 S320, it doesnt suffer the notorious gasket oil leaks that S320 does, insurance and service is cheaper and the performance difference is negligable.

One only needs to look at the Audi S3 (small 3dr hatchback) which has a small 1.8 engine, six speed transmission, 4WD yet can hurtle to 60 in less than 7 seconds and is electronically limited to 155mph.
This kind of car wouldnt sell in N.America.

You are right about the UK, Its a small country - Central London like any major city in the world is congested to the point that we sometimes can't travel faster than 5mph during the rush hours or if there are road works. Its acceptable to cruise at less than 100mph on our motorway network which I do on a daily basis to get to the south coast where I work. We can cross the 7 mile stretch of the English Channel and be in mainland Europe in less than an hour and head to the German autobahns where there is no speed limit. I have driven my car at well over 130mph legally.
Regards
Gill

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And here are the data (from C280 with engine code 941 instead of 944 for the S-class)... some 15% less power than S320 (engine code 990/994):

Code: M 104 E 28 / 104.941
Manufacturer: Mercedes-Benz
Type: S-6 DOHC
24 valves total, 4 valves per cylinder
Main bearings: 7
Bore x stroke: 89.90mm × 73.50mm
Bore / stroke ratio: 1.22
Displacement: 2799 cc, 170.80 cu in
Compression: 10.00:1
Fuel system: Bo HFM fuel inj.
Aspiration: Normal
Catalytic Converter: Y
Max. output: 192.6 PS (190.0 bhp) (141.7 kW)@5500 rpm
Max. torque: 270.0 Nm (199 lbft) (27.5 kgm)@3750 rpm
Coolant: Water
Specific output: 67.9 bhp/litre
Specific torque: 96.46 Nm/litre