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W220 Moderator
S500 W220 SLK320 R170 C200 CDI W203 Peugeot Expert Van
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Guys,

Been thinking about this as a sticky for a while now as we all use IT these days and there are some very knowledgeable IT folk here.

Feel free to post any Laptop, Tablet, Desktop, Hardware & Software Questions.

Please avoid "SDS use problems" and "My Engine / ABS / Airmatic etc Computer", you can post these type of questions below on a "Regular Forum Thread" ...........

SDS Install, Memory HDD etc Q's & A's are fine :wink

This Thread is for IT Related Questions / Answers Only !!

PLEASE, STICK TO LAPTOP ? DESKTOP RELATED SUBJECTS !! NO CAR "ECU / COMPUTER" QUESTIONS !! THEY WILL BE DELETED !!

Cheers Dave
 

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S500 W220 SLK320 R170 C200 CDI W203 Peugeot Expert Van
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Discussion Starter #2

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Please help me finding a *

1) Is the 499+59 usd ( only support Dell D830 ) package a suitable choice? "V2018.03 MB SD C4 Connect Compact C4 Xentry DAS Star Diagnosis for Cars and Trucks Supports WIN7/WIN10 With DTS Monaco & Vediamo

2) Why the d830 is so specific ?

3) Anyone tried whether the * working on pad style win7/10 environment?
 

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S500 W220 SLK320 R170 C200 CDI W203 Peugeot Expert Van
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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Hi,

I assume you're talking about SDS here.

Dell D620, D630, D820 and D830 are one of the "most modern" Laptops you can get with a Serial Port which is needed to connect to the SDS Multiplexer C3, and the HDD's come loaded for Dell with correct Drivers etc, so best to use Dell.

D820, D830 are basically the same as D620 / D630 but have bigger screens ;)

Some Diagnostic Companies sell Panasonic Tough Books, with Multiplexer and SDS installed and configured, Plug and Play, but for some DIY'ers these are way above their budget, generally sell in UK for around £1400.

For me, with business, this is fully Tax Deductible and will be what I buy when I upgrade ;)

I don't think Clone SDS works with Win10 does it ????

Not sure these days, I researched it all years ago, before I bought my 2014 Software, D620 and C3 / Leads set up.

IT moves so quickly these days, perhaps it is possible to run it Wireless on a Tablet now, but it really isn't advisable, you can brick an ECU if re flashing it with Wireless and the connection drops out !!

C4 Wireless was noted for this, no one who is in the "know" will recommend using the Wireless feature, but you do need C4 used with Wired Connection for much later model MB's, C3 won't communicate with them.

HTH,

Cheers Dave
 

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Cool, this is a good idea, Dave. We've seen a lot of discussion of late about SDS in recent threads.

There is a key difference between Dell D620/820's and D630/830's, even though both boxes use 64-bit CPU's and are nearly identical otherwise. That key difference is the Southbridge. The D620/820's use the Intel 845 chipset, whose Southbridge chip (there's a Northbridge and a Southbridge) has only 32 lines to address memory. So, while the CPU can address multiple terabytes of DRAM, the Southbridge doesn't have enough lines to keep up with the CPU. Those 32 address lines limit you to only 4GB DRAM total memory address space. Again, this ain't a CPU limitation; it's a motherboard chipset limitation.

Of that 4GB of address space, you have the various parts of the computer, largely the PCI bus, that need addressing. These other parts, in Dell D600/800-series Latitudes, get about 0.75 GB of address space. That leaves you with 3.25 GB of actual useable DRAM. Note that this is address space; you're not actually allocating DRAM (it's because of how computer addressing works--long story). That means if you have 3GB DRAM in your computer, you will see all 3GB. However, once you install anything past 3.25GB (e. g. you install 4GB), that DRAM past 3.25 GB will not be seen because the PCI bus is using those particular address lines.

This is why it doesn't make economic sense to install anything past 3GB in a Dell D620/820.

Side note: this ticked enough owners off and became such a well-known problem that Intel got Microsoft to issue a patch for Windows XP so that the OS would no longer report 3.25 GB DRAM (which Windows *actually* saw), but rather lie and tell you 4GB! The trick MS used was to read what the Intel BIOS reported was physically installed instead of what DRAM was actually available like you're supposed to do. Gotta love "Wintel", eh? :rolleyes: GNU/Linux and the BSD's, of course, continued to tell you the truth.

The situation changes with D630/830's, which use the improved Intel 865 chipset. This was the major change between D620/820 and D630/830; everything else is basically the same. Fully aware that people were getting ticked about their "4GB DRAM" not being fully used, Intel modified the 845 chipset and added a 33rd memory address line. This new chipset, they called the 865. With that 33rd memory address line, now you have 2^33 bytes, or 8GB, of possible address space. So, with the PCI bus's "tax" of 0.75 GB, you get a real-world capacity of 7.25 GB of DRAM. So, in these, it made more economical sense to fill the box to DRAM capacity.

Now, for purposes of SDS, does this matter?

For Windows XP-based systems, not really. I use D830's for SDS, both for the larger screen and the better Intel 865 chipset. I have 3GB in one computer and 4GB in the other. Both are running Windows XP-based images at present. There really isn't that much difference. However, I may go to a Windows 7-based system later on, in which case, I'll be slappin' 8GB in the laptop, because anything from Windows Vista on is a pig when it comes to DRAM.

So, which one should you get? Price being equal or close, get the D630/830, depending on how big a screen you prefer. If you see a D620/820 for substantially less, though, it'll be fine for Windows XP-based SDS, though Windows 7-based systems will not be too happy with such a low amount. If you don't connect to the Internet, there's no real reason to go Windows 7, and I *NEVER, EVER* allow my SDS laptops to touch the Internet for several very good reasons, so Windows XP images are fine in such cases.
 

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Dave - That SSD looks fine for the Dell. You will need the trim plate for the SSD from the old drive, of course.

Dalplex - The original STAR software was written for, and ran on, a modified version of Windows XP, and used the RS232 serial port to communicate with the multiplexer. Several years ago, when I bought my first STAR system, I tried running the software on a virtual machine on a later laptop. I couldn't make it work, so I swore off of virtual computing. I decided that there was enough complication in making the software work without the factory communication and authentication, so I elected to go with the C3 system. I felt that was the simplest possible system, with the best chance of working successfully, and so far, that theory seems to have been correct.

I have no idea what the vendor had to do to make the software work on later versions of Windows, but I doubt that it was simple or easy. I still think that I would go for the simplest system.

The software has to have the drivers for the selected laptop already installed, so it will always be specific to a specific laptop. The drivers for the D830 are different from those for the D630.
(EDIT) I think that cowboyt's explanation of the difference is much better than mine...

Like Dave, I am currently building a D830 to use with my C3 system. It will be interesting to see if I regret it when I start trying to hold it while sitting in the driver's seat - it is noticeably larger than my D630...
 

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S500 W220 SLK320 R170 C200 CDI W203 Peugeot Expert Van
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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Hi,

Thanks Wally, I have several Caddy / Trims, just bought one of them for now to try, if they are as good as everyone says I'll buy 2 x 500Gb for my Disco Machines ;)

Nice write up Terrell :thumbsup:

Oh boy am I going to be using this thread in the next few weeks.

I currently use 2 old D600's running XP for the Disco / Karaoke Roadshow. One of them has recently died, HDD Fault, I think, won't boot, reports that a windows 32 file is missing or corrupt :crying Sadly I don't have Windows XP Discs (need SP2) to try and repair it :frown

I have no "Back Up" so I don't want to meddle with the only surviving one right now :eek

I have just Built a working D820 and am also putting together a D830 these are to run Windows 7, with my Disco and Karaoke Players, Adobe, Java etc on Partition C: and all the Music MP3 /4 Files plus all the Karaoke CDG's on partition D:

If I can get another D830 base I will swap the HDD from the current working D820 and use more RAM in it.

I'm currently building up the Hard Drives with all the Software ;)

It's going ok, better than expected actually, but I have a few glitches atm :crying

OK, so I've got the Karaoke Player working ok, puts the words up onto a second monitor, no desktop on that, just desktop on the Dells Screen.

First Question ............... With the XP the bar at the top of the screen where the X is in the top right, (not sure what that bar is called lol), but it disappears a few seconds after the screen shows up, this is great as the Audience are then looking at a Blue Screen with only the Song Words showing :)

But the Win7 won't disappear that bar :frown .......... Any Ideas ??

There are more questions but we'll do one at a time, unless you wanna Skype me and I'll get the old D600 and the new D820 booted and running dual monitors, so you can see what's happening with the other problems, one of which is Java related, it is the new Java, and will not let mosaic.jar run in my Tickertape Screen, have tried all sorts to no avail :wink

Cheers for now,

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Hi Again,

OK so I'll continue from my post # 7 :wink

Piccies below show the Old set up, and the new setup and illustrate the 2 current probs I am having with the Windows 7 Dell D820 (Black Laptop) that is connected to the screen with the Black Bezel. The pics of the old Windows XP Dell D600, (Silver Laptop) that is connected to the screen with the Silver Bezel, is running fine and exactly how I want it to.

FWIW, the Karaoke Song Lyrics pop onto the Monitors over the top of the remote screens as soon as I start a Karaoke track for a client to sing, that is working just fine ;)

So ........

Pic 1 is the 2 set ups running

Pics 2,3 & 4 show the Old system, and how it should look, all fine

Pic 5 shows the desktop on the Old system, which does not appear on the remote screen.... Perfect, how it should be

Pic 6 shows the D820 Desktop, again this does not and should not appear on the Monitor Screen, but it also shows the message saying Java has blocked the Mosaic (which is what puts up the cartoon pix) :crying

Pic 7 shows how the remote screen is looking atm, note the "Info Bar" is at the top, need to get rid of that, and the Cartoons should be flipping where the Java in White box is, I can't find the fix for that yet either :crying

Pic 8 shows,(quite correctly), when a Karaoke Track is started that the Words now appear on the screen, "always on top" of the Cartoon window but sized so the tickertape still shows at the top ;)

Pic 9 then shows what happens after the singer finishes, another screen showing who's up next and what song etc, then as the track starts, up come the words........
So, yeah it's almost good to go :wink

Sooooooooo :grin

Can anyone help me get rid of that "info bar" and get my cartoons working ?????????

Cheers Dave

Pix:-
 

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Has anyone tried a decent USB to RS232. I have one I use to help me configure legacy switches (usually Cisco). My assumption is that the software is looking for a COM port as that is how 90% of most applications work that require serial connection to an endpoint. I do know there are some applications out there that don't utilize the OS environment as part of the OSI pathway and use a proprietary app embedded in their own software which may work with only very specific chipsets. I was just curious if possibly the SDS fell into that later.
 

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S500 W220 SLK320 R170 C200 CDI W203 Peugeot Expert Van
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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Hi Guys,

OK, a quick update on my new Disco / Karaoke System D820 Laptop ................

So, I'm now running the D820 on the Silver Widescreen Monitor, as that and a 40" Widescreen are the ones I use at Gigs, so I had to reset Resolutions and centre Lyrics Screen etc etc, but that was all fairly simples :grin

I managed to get rid of that "Info" ?? bar on the top of the Remote Screen, simples ;) ...............
Well it was once I realised / remembered how I did it years ago on the old XP machines :laugh

Into Settings Icon on that bar, and select "Full Screen", then when I load up Tickertape at the start of a Gig, the Screen comes up and after a couple of seconds the bar disappears just like the old XP Setup :grin
Hover the mouse pointer at the top and it comes back ................ Remove mouse pointer, goes away :grin

So the only prob I have now is getting the Mosaic.jar to run in Java on the Book Page Flip so my little Cartoon pix flip over.

I have tried using the old jre1.6.0_03 Java file that's on the XP machine, but either it doesn't copy right, or Windows 7 doesn't work with it, (vice versa ??).

The new Java has only got "high and very high" Security settings.
Apparently the older versions before Java 7 had a slider setting, but I couldn't find a download version of that on Sunday, will have another try later today, I have a feeling, (read hoping), that will get Mosaic.jar working !!

Once Mosaic.jar is sorted all I have to do is get the Disco Player loaded up with "All Music" files which are already on the HDD Partition D:

TBH, I have a Gig on 24th March, but only one working D600 now, so I'll be able to take the new D820 and test it IRL and use the Old D600 as "backup" for now, until eventually I end up with 2 D830's :grin

I :dunno: but I expect the D830's may need some Drivers changing when I clone the drive, but that is now well within my "Pay Grade" :grin
"Drivers Are Us", well they are now my "Software Numpty" skill set is improving :rolleyes:

Cheers for now,

Dave

Pix:-
 

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Has anyone tried a decent USB to RS232. I have one I use to help me configure legacy switches (usually Cisco). My assumption is that the software is looking for a COM port as that is how 90% of most applications work that require serial connection to an endpoint. I do know there are some applications out there that don't utilize the OS environment as part of the OSI pathway and use a proprietary app embedded in their own software which may work with only very specific chipsets. I was just curious if possibly the SDS fell into that later.
I tried that.

COM port emulation does not work :(

some IBM laptops have had it going, but these are rare.

It is a pain to have connection loss during coding.
 

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S500 W220 SLK320 R170 C200 CDI W203 Peugeot Expert Van
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Discussion Starter #12
I tried that.

COM port emulation does not work :(

some IBM laptops have had it going, but these are rare.

It is a pain to have connection loss during coding.
Hi,

Couldn't agree more, it is also an even bigger pain if you are flashing a Software update and connection drops out, that is just as likely to brick the controller concerned ;)

I don't see what the problem is with buying a cheap Dell and using RS232, as it was intended by the Chinese Software Programmers :wink

At the end of the day you would be ill advised to put SDS Clone on a Lappy or Tablet that you use every day, it is so full of Viruses etc.

Much better to keep it as a stand alone IMHO .............

Hell, in my Workshop I have a separate Dell for MB Star, VW/Audi Group VAG COM & ELSAWin, JLR, Delphi Generic, and soon BMW ICOM (when I get around to the Install) :grin

Each one is stand alone, and they all work flawlessly ;)

Much better IMHO

Cheers Dave
 

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I tried that.

COM port emulation does not work :(

some IBM laptops have had it going, but these are rare.

It is a pain to have connection loss during coding.
When I get my SDS I will play with it. I have a few laptops laying around, including a D630 already. As I am curious. That is the same issue you would have with trying to console into Cisco switches without using a specific usb bridge to serial chipset. As I like to play with this kind of stuff to find out, I will do a follow-up report when I have time to tinker.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hi again,

Well I fixed the Java 8 / mosaic.jar issue :grin

Uninstalled Java 8 and replaced it with an archive version of jre6 ...........

It's all working with one tiny bug, see first pic ...........

Each time I start "Tickertape" something, (Internet Explorer I think), is prompting me to update the Java, which of course I don't want to do DOH !!

If I click "run this time" then it all works fine, and the Update bar disappears for that "gig"

Not too big a deal I know, but it annoys the hell outta me and I want to get it right, anyone got any Ideas ?????

The other pics show it all working fine, and in between each Cartoon Pic, it puts up my "Karaoke" logo.

I suppose I could try Uninstalling Internet Explorer and re Installing an earlier version, these Laptops have never been on the Internet except for downloading Drivers, Java etc upon initial setting up, but it would be useful to be able run them on Internet now and then for updating Music Files / Karaoke CDG's...............

I'm thinking that an earlier version might give me more grief :dunno: ??????

Any ideas how to get rid of that prompt would be well received :wink

Cheers Dave

Pix:-
 

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How do you load the jar file? Anything after jre 7 requires high to very high security and you cannot change that. However you can add an exception under security. Just click "Site Exemption List". You can either use URL or FILE syntax.

URL = http://prefix.hostname.suffix (i.e. http://localhost/file.jar)
FILE = file:///<drive_letter>:/<directory>/<file>.jar (i.e. file:///C:/temp/file.jar

You would have to add an exemption per file or just use the pathway with no ending "/" and that should allow any jar file to run under that directory.
 

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Thought to post up my situation. A few days ago received a C4 system for use with a Dell 630. SD Connect version DEC 2017.

Inserted the SSD drive with pre-loaded software into the D630, and the system will not complete a load of the pre-installed windows software. Tried numerous "fixes", and no go. Fixes included letting windows try to fix itself to going to a command prompt and running chdsk.

Not sure how to address with a chinese ali-baba vendor. Looking at buying another pre-loaded hard drive :(.

Here are two screen shots
 

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Here is the follow up to get the drive to load the Windows 7 OS from the SSD. After working numerous fixes for 24 hours, was about to give up. I remembered a setting in the bios that said: SATA is configured for ATA- which is the default setting. I switched it to SATA for AHCI, and low and behold the OS loaded...

Here is a pic of the bios change from the Dell D630:
 

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I switched it to SATA for AHCI, and low and behold the OS loaded...
I was going to write a reply to that exact troubleshooting step. As that is a common issue especially when changing spinners to solid state. Glad you got it resolves, let us know how the C4 treats you.
 

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Glad that you got it going so far, Mike. It will be interesting to see how things go with Windows 7 and more memory.

I am building a D830 to replace one of the D630 systems. I cloned the SDS conventional hard drive to a SSD the same size and installed it in the D830. The system starts and runs with no problems, until I try to actually use DAS. At that point, it tells me that I have no DAS authorization key. Not really a surprise, since the key is tied to the LAN ID, which is obviously different on the D830.

I tried to install a new key, with no luck. The hardware ID and LAN ID are both different, and I didn't find an intuitive way to change the numbers on the cloned drive.

After a couple of hours messing with it, I decided that the best approach was a clean install. After 2 1/2 hours of intermittent attention, I am 43% of the way thru loading the 14-DVD distribution...
 

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Got system reloaded, and was reminded of one of the small "gotcha!" items with loading key authorizations - there is a space for the expiration date for the new key. That date has to be later than today - DOH! I set the expiration for 1-1-2030 - I doubt if I will be using the system when I am 89 years old...

Got the system to accept the key for DAS, but not for Xentry nor for WIS.
 
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