[lahaden]

Hello all!

I have a question for all you mechanics out there!

To make a very long story as short as I can, my '85 300 TD (California Version) Station Wagon had a burst Oil Return Pipe which damaged the engine.

I was looking to replace this and another benzworld member offered to sell me their '81 300 TDT but my mechanic says that it wouldn't work.

What you have to understand about this mechanic is that he wants to buy my car for $500 and then sell it himself for $7500 (this is a fact, I'm not making this up - he actually had it listed for sale on his website for $7500 BEFORE any agreement to sell). At any rate, I'm not very trusting of him at the moment, but he claims that...

"You need a 1985 engine; the 1981 engine will fit through 1984 cars. They added emission controls to the 1985 model year which meant changing many things." and "it must be from a station wagon as only those have a suspension pump on the cylinder head."

IS THIS TRUE??

The seller of the engine has this to say, "On engine interchangability, all W123 chassis 5 cylinder turbodiesels (300D, 300CD, 300TD) were equipped with Mercedes' OM617.952 engine. These would be '81 through '85 model years. Mercedes did make some changes that resulted in squeezing a few extra horsepower out in the last couple of years, but I'm pretty sure the engines are entirely interchangable regardless."

I am no mechanic and have no idea what I should do.

Thanks in advance for all your help and sorry for the length of this email!

--Laura

 

[TheDon04]

i belive you can put an om617 in the wagon its a w123 car and engine combo so go for it, hell the om617 cali version takes up more room than the federal om617
but you will need a wagon om617 to go in because of the pump for the SLS

and a word to the wise dont use that mechanic anymore he is a low life

 

[MBeige]

Our 81 300TDT has the SLS (self leveling suspension--the suspension pump he mentioned) but the 1985 models had different add-ons.

It had emissions different than earlier models especially the Cali version. It had the Kilma relay for utilizing the extra supply of vacuum for various accessories. The transmission was different too, not sure if they're 100% compatible with the earlier ones (trannies were more refined and beefed up I think).

"You need a 1985 engine; the 1981 engine will fit through 1984 cars. They added emission controls to the 1985 model year which meant changing many things." and "it must be from a station wagon as only those have a suspension pump on the cylinder head."

IS THIS TRUE??

Yes that is true.

The seller of the engine has this to say, "On engine interchangability, all W123 chassis 5 cylinder turbodiesels (300D, 300CD, 300TD) were equipped with Mercedes' OM617.952 engine. These would be '81 through '85 model years. Mercedes did make some changes that resulted in squeezing a few extra horsepower out in the last couple of years, but I'm pretty sure the engines are entirely interchangable regardless."

You can interchange them, but interchanging the additional extras and ensuring transmission compatibility might be trickier.

Find another mechanic. Where are you located? Some members might be able to help you find a good engine. For one, Blkchambers is selling (still?) his engine but not sure if it's an 85 model. This is a low mileage engine!

http://www.mbnz.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1244293&posts=8

 

[lahaden]

Thank you for your information!

I live in PA, but the car is currently located in Absecon, NJ (near Atlantic City). Kind of a long story there...

I will check into this other engine and again, THANKS!!

 

[vlayton]

lahaden - 3/30/2006 10:26 AM


To make a very long story as short as I can, my '85 300 TD (California Version) Station Wagon had a burst Oil Return Pipe which damaged the engine.

How do we know this is even true? How did the motor fail also and not just the turbo-charger? It's possible, but I'd like some clarification on that.

All the turbo wagons did indeed get 617.952 motors.

There would be several modifications needed towards making it run properly or spec. I take it you don't have emmissions requirements? (If you do, you would need a an '85 or equal emission killing equiment IF the 1981 motor puts out more emmissions than allowed)

And you would need certain accessories from the 1981, such as air filter housing, etc. You might have to switch the motor bearing arms to mount everything as it should.

It sounds like he wants it easy AND charge a lot. It's one or the other, and it should be the customer's choice. Tell him if he can sell it for $7500, you want a third. [}]

You cannont use the transmission from the '81 with the cluster/odometer in your '85.

It just will need a few extra things worked out, but it can happen. OH, you'll need a new header pipe for the exhaust too. Also RE '81 vs '85- different turbos and starters and ALDA/turbo-overboost/emmssion vacuum controls and circuitry

Hope it works out for you. Regards,

 

[vlayton]

karugs - 3/30/2006 2:46 PM
For one, Blkchambers is selling (still?) his engine but not sure if it's an 85 model. This is a low mileage engine!

I think it's still available, but isn't able to drive the SLS

 

[MBeige]

Yeah I figured that too after posting it, sorry [:I]

 

[smallfence]

lahaden - 3/30/2006 3:55 PM

Thank you for your information!

I live in PA, but the car is currently located in Absecon, NJ (near Atlantic City). Kind of a long story there...

I will check into this other engine and again, THANKS!!

I don't live too far from you, I'm in Centre County. I know a guy in Mifflintown with several wagons that he might be willing to part out (not sure of the years and no idea if they're cali, though). He also gave me contact info for a great mechanic in harrisburg who only does MB. PM if you're interested, I can try to help out.

 

[lahaden]

Smallfence,

Thank you!

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!

Also, I don't think that it has to be a Cali engine, as long as it's an '85 - that would make things easier!

My email is [email protected] if you need / would like to contact me direcly.

Thanks again!

--Laura

 

[njview]

Wow: I bet that mechanic guy is on WHite Horse Pike if ya know who I mean....
I had a blown 85 engine and was told that I could not switch it with earlier turbo years due to some manifold configuration and other 'fit' differences peculiar to only that year. So I would look only for an 85 if I was you. I have found that A & W auto repai in Eatontown NJ is decent for such work, about 2200 and six moonth warranty last time I had to go through this nightmare. They may be able to two it up to thier shop for you too, they are right off parkway exit 105<p>Also, please go to the website car-parts.com,I HIGHLY recommend it. They have a GREAT search engine to find a junkyard near you with that exact motor, you can compare costs, etc and sometimes the yard will even have a mechanic referral. GOod luck it sounds like a nice car. And if you want to sell it, my brother in NJ is looking for just such a car. PM me if interested in selling.

 

[njview]

Laura: One more comment: Becuase this engine is specific to CA cars, you may be better off to actually get a CA junk car's engine to keep it all correct and easy to exchange - there is a yard out here that has many such engines- Silver Star recycling in Rancho Cordova, they are on the web.I am sure you will find others too using that car-parts site. <p>Used Engines usually go for around 550-750, & I had one put in out here for $800, and bet you can find similar pricing out in your area. So factor your shipping of the engine at maybe $2-300, and maybe you can get out of this for under 2K or close.

 

[lahaden]

njview,

car-parts.com is a life saver! And so are you!!!

Thanks a million!

 

[lahaden]

The mechanic is being an unbelievable jerk at the moment...so I'm having it towed the hell out of there...

as far as selling it...I may be very interested in that.

Please keep on the lookout in the Sell Forum. I will list it there first.

Thanks!

 

[Gregs300CD]

He's probably just irritated that he isn't getting the easy $7K. He's probably already spent half of it.

 

[lahaden]

njview,

mind me asking what you know of the guy on white horse pike? I'd like to hear your story...

Also, as far as money that he's put into it - as far as I know, it's only been the towing.

In his last email, he was going on about how when he picked...wait, let me just quote him exactly...

"If I have not responded quickly it is because I am still in shock. Monday, the night of my 54th birthday, I spent a hundred bucks for fuel and tolls, 12 hours, including six at the side of the Northeast Extension waiting for a tire-service truck to come and put on a new left front tire ($637 plus tip) on after being run off the road by a FedEx tractor trailer at mile 89. Then I get a call from someone claiming to be your sister who calls me a liar (First off - I would like to point out that NONE of this is MY fault, and the thing about my sister calling him a liar is simply not true...Laura)

(I have found an '85 SW 300 TD non-cali version from car-parts! Which I thought should be usable...Laura)

As to what engine fits, it is this simple: A 1985, California version station-wagon-only, engine will fit. Any other version has the same block, and everything else does not fit this car, including the exhaust, the wiring, the plumbing and the emissions and therefore would have to be changed over. For us, of course, this would not have been a problem since we would start with a good block, then change over all the other parts including new ones where appropriate, at a great expenditure of labor, then when we sell the car charge enough to cover everything. Anyone who has told you they can cobble a similar but not the same engine into the car does not know what they are talking about. Believe me, we have seen the results of these abortions!

Later.

Your friend.

Bill"

So, that is what he has to say...in his own words.

Sigh...when will this be over?

 

[njview]

Wow, thats not too customer freindly! First, I do agree in general with the part of the email where he said that you should try to switch like with like- it is not that hard and is VERY worth the extra 200 bucks to ship, or to wait to find a match. Like a heart donor, sorta.<p>
Second, I also know from experience that he does do a way more thorough repair and will stand behind it for at least six months. So I can see why he would want more than the traditional 1000 or so for a drop-in. However, most other shops back up thier work, and the selection of used engine, too, so I am not sure what he adds in value, most of which is in his own mind.<p>
I have several diesel buddies, and myself, who have dealt with him for years. He is generally honest as far as selling,and will fine-tooth comb a car and charge acordingly for his effort to stand behind his resales. His parts and serivce guys are a lot nicer than he is. He does have sort of gruffness about him that is a customer turnoff<p>But what he did to you is a total turnoff to me, he knows trim/interior parts alone on that car could be worth $1000 and then, to pre-list it...well 'nuf said. I assume yours is a clean, good body/paint car because that's generally all he is interested in. <p>Antoher friend of mine really swears by (not at) his diesel guy near Princeton NJ I can find that name for you if you want to talk with him too maybe towing there will be more affordable.But given your treatment so far, I'd run not walk from there I would either get it towed ASAP to a nicer place,and hook that shop up with an engine or (b) Ebay it yourself and find a western rust free one on Craigslist they do exist and yes, they can be had for under $5K.

 

[lahaden]

I just wanted to let everyone know that Gloria is now at a different mechanic (yay!) and we are waiting for repairs to be made.

I can't thank you all enough for all your help. This site has more than exceeded my expectations and you have all been helpful, informative and in short - WONDERFUL!

Thanks again!

--Laura