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Unimog U421.140, cabrio and U407.100
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I was checking some Unimog parts at MB Andorra and I got an invitation to go for a driving curse/clinic with the new line of MB 4Matic diesels.
The circuit/track is in the hight mountain in Ordino Arcalis, Andorra.
One hour theory and two hours driving:)
You get to try all the cars, etc.
Lots of fun! particulary in ICE:D
 

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250GD Wolf
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4matic is true AWD and is rear bias is it not? 45% front, rest to the rear? Suppose it depends on the application, I've always wanted to try one in the snow.

Our daily driver is "AWD" in that its 99% front and when the wheels slip 4%, it can shift up to 50-50, I'd much prefer the Mercedes system that is true AWD, that is, all the wheels are powered all the time. Not to mention the rear bias would be much more fun!
 

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2000 Mercedes-Benz E320 4matic
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Looks like a fun time indeed. I wonder what kind of tires they were running.... Snow tires of some type I bet? They make a huge difference as many online tests have shown. Even comparing two cars with rear wheel drive only, the snow tires take off better, stop much better, better slalom, etc.

My last car was a Chrysler 300 SRT8 and they had this thing they did when you bought new, called the SRT8 track experience. We ran all SRT models around a track doing 1/4 mile drags, slalom, evasive maneuvers and extreme braking, etc. This sounds like a similar event... Except that it was in the snow and ice of course haha

Thanks for posting the pics... I've been very impressed with the 4matic in the snow we have here in Indiana the past week. I would love to test it out in those conditions!
 

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1962 404, (sold now, saving for the next)
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Watched a guy run up and down a very steep and icy hill in one of these around thanksgiving. I was stuck in the ditch in my work van, FWIW!

He had no trouble coming up with some speed. He tapped the brakes and got a little sideways going down but let off them and the car straightened out. It actually was pretty amazing, considering I kept falling just trying to walk on that sheet of ice.

When he passed me to go down I was sure he'd end up in the lake at the bottom.
 

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Unimog U421.140, cabrio and U407.100
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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
4matic is true AWD and is rear bias is it not? 45% front, rest to the rear? Suppose it depends on the application, I've always wanted to try one in the snow.

Our daily driver is "AWD" in that its 99% front and when the wheels slip 4%, it can shift up to 50-50, I'd much prefer the Mercedes system that is true AWD, that is, all the wheels are powered all the time. Not to mention the rear bias would be much more fun!
These cars will work 50/50. plus the shocks go up and down automatically depending the road condition/surface.
 

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U1250L DOKA
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Have they gotten the traction control unf***ed yet? Had a ML320CDI and the turbo diesel's torque curve was not a good match for the TC's algorithms.
 

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'78 Mog 416.141 DoKa
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bah - typical M-B over engineering. My Audi's Quattro IV system is easily as good and much less complicated.

Torsen center diff with nominal 50/50 split and up to 75% bias, front or rear and simple side-to-side bias using the ABS sensors and brakes. This system has saved my a$$ several times by making mistakes look like hero driving !
 

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250GD Wolf
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bah - typical M-B over engineering. My Audi's Quattro IV system is easily as good and much less complicated.

Torsen center diff with nominal 50/50 split and up to 75% bias, front or rear and simple side-to-side bias using the ABS sensors and brakes. This system has saved my a$$ several times by making mistakes look like hero driving !
Its my understanding the Torsen is one of the best systems, but not all "Quattro's" are Torsen based systems, some of the cheaper ones ( Such as the TT, cheaper being a relative term :) )run the Haldex (which was just purchased by Borg & Warner FWIW) which isn't as highly regarded as the Torsen system.. I've owned both Haldex (2), and Borg and Warner (2) based systems and can tell you first hand, they don't hold a candle to the more advanced systems such as a true Torsen or system like 4matic or Xdrive. Even the SH-AWD system is IMO better.

In fact with "spirited" driving my Borg and Warner clutch based system would often overheat, and disengage, flick on a check light, and go into limp mode.

Lots of people see the "AWD" badge on the back and assume they are all equal :confused:

But I digress, I'm wondering off topic :)
 

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2000 Mercedes-Benz E320 4matic
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True. I was worried when i was looking at them. They said the old 4matic system with the clutches was way over complicated and often broke down. The new system is more Quattro like and certainly more durable. When it comes to AWD ... complicated = bad idea.
 

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'78 Mog 416.141 DoKa
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But I digress, I'm wondering off topic :)
That's OK - the whole thread is off-topic ;)

Yes, my '01 A6 uses the Quattro IV system which has a true Torsen center diff. A quick search said that the Haldex system was used on the smaller Audi's (A3, TT) and most VW's (4motion system) starting in 1998. They may be more common now - I don't know.

I do know that it can be entertaining to disable the traction control part of the system (ESP - Elektronisches Stabilitätsprogramm) - which I think disables the ABS part of the system that controls side-to-side torque biasing. Be prepared to drive by looking out the side windows !

Out of all the true AWD/4WD vehicles I own/have owned, the Quattro system is the best drivers system I've ever used. I'm sure the M-B system performs well also - but, M-B has not recently been known to do things simply, preferring to 'wow' their audience with massive quantities of (sometimes problematic) electronic bells and whistles.
 

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U1250L DOKA
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That's OK - the whole thread is off-topic ;)

Yes, my '01 A6 uses the Quattro IV system which has a true Torsen center diff. A quick search said that the Haldex system was used on the smaller Audi's (A3, TT) and most VW's (4motion system) starting in 1998. They may be more common now - I don't know.

I do know that it can be entertaining to disable the traction control part of the system (ESP - Elektronisches Stabilitätsprogramm) - which I think disables the ABS part of the system that controls side-to-side torque biasing. Be prepared to drive by looking out the side windows !

Out of all the true AWD/4WD vehicles I own/have owned, the Quattro system is the best drivers system I've ever used. I'm sure the M-B system performs well also - but, M-B has not recently been known to do things simply, preferring to 'wow' their audience with massive quantities of (sometimes problematic) electronic bells and whistles.
and then deny that the bells and whistles are not working as planned. That ML was a great little SUV, but scary as snot in heavy slush. (Which is what we see a lot of in NE Ohio)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Talking about 4matic and off-topic:)
This morning a guy went off road in a Hill across my hotel. Very steep hill and a lot of ice.
Lucky guy.... down the hill there is a busy road.
 

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The proof is in the pudding.. audi/porsche quattro quattro quattro.. I have owned / driven a number of awd vehicles, including subaru, but the audi system is the most refined and agile.. just look at the data. it always holds down first place.. even in the car magazines..

ps.. did I mention quattro?

I fly all over the city of the 7 hills here in cincinnati. especially after a good snowfall. It seems like every vehicle should be equipped with quattro.. and my a4 still gets 30mpg. best car i've owned, hands down. simple 1.8 turbo 5 speed wagon. Im running some hankook snow tires which obviously make a huge difference.. plus they have ice studs.. shhh,... dont tell the authorities!!

Happy holidays and snow driving.. in whatever mfg you choose. (go audi:thumbsup:)

ACUF
 

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Nice ride ACUF. We looked at the A4 Avant when the wife's old VW Passat got wrecked. Ultimately, she decided she'd rather have another Passat wagon then part with an extra $10K.

I looked for a pic of my A6 and was amazed that I didn't have any. The closest is the 'family picture' of the household 4X4's (excluding the Mog and 1-ton manure hauler :) )

Best of the Holidays to all - it's going to be a beautiful fresh snow white Xmas here.
 

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Happy holidays and snow driving.. in whatever mfg you choose. (go audi:thumbsup:)

ACUF
Nice ride !

I have a Legacy Outback and it's really tail happy when in snow.

I wish they would be making a jetta estate tdi with them synchro. I guess you could graft an audi drivetrain on a jetta or something.
 

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BenzWorld UNIMOG statesman
Unimog 404.1 Diesel (sold :( )1995 LMTV 1078
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MB 4matic is a bit of a stretch for a Mog forum.... so at least lets get back to that
 
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