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I've recently been extended an offer for an '86 300E with a 5-speed transmission for $1,000... The body is not in the best of shape, so it will merely be a parts car. This will be the starting point for a relatively intensive project for my '88 300E.

Here's the plan so far. First, of course, is the transmission. Seeing as it needs a rebuild, I was wondering (since supposedly it's a Getrag-built transmission) how difficult would it be for me to rebuilt it myself? I want to learn about transmissions, and I consider myself to be extremely mechanically adept, so I'm curious as to whether or not I could seriously botch things in my learning experience (beyond repair that is). Also, I'm planning on doing some serious engine work down the road, so would it be possible to beef up the transmission to handle up to 400 horsepower? I'm assuming this transmission was designed with no more than 220 horsepower in mind, so I'm a bit concerned about its ability to handle power. Also, with regard to clutches, how interchangeable are they with these transmissions? Am I forced to find a Mercedes-specific clutch if I want something a bit beefier and more performance-oriented?

With regard to the engine coming from the donor car, I'm planning on pulling it out and setting it up on a stand as an ongoing project. I've never worked on these engines before (minimal head work at most), and want to investigate the possibility of strengthening the bottom-end to get it ready for turbo lovin'. The engine can handle 6 psi on stock internals, but 300 hp isn't enough for me... I'm shooting for between 350 and 400 reliably (any more and I'm facing serious trouble).

Now, putting that power to the road... What's the name of the company that rebuilds/converts differentials to limited slips? I'd like to get the pricing difference between a half and a full LSD, seeing as my primary concern is even torque distribution under power, but if it's not too much more, under deceleration/downshifting would be nice too for safety reasons... I'd probably send off the LSD from this donor car so I wouldn't have any downtime.

Beyond those modifications, I plan on buying the entire Sportline suspension package for the W124 chassis seeing as it was fitted on the 500E, and it eliminates something like 75% of body roll and only sacrifices about 20% of ride comfort (of course these measurements are just opinion). Also, since the previous owner did a number on the entire front end (bumper, quarter panels, headlight mounting brackets... all workable, but upon closer inspection you can see what's up), I'm considering doing a front-end update including buying 500E quarter panels (all the way around) since the car needs to be repainted anyway, and it'd be nice to gain about a 1.5" wider track so I can get some beefier rubber on the car.

I don't know yet, the transmission is the first and primary concern in this project, so let me know your thoughts on this entire deal. The 300E is an amazingly fun car to drive, and this would make it pure ecstacy.
 

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1987 Mercedes 300e
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wow. that project sounds insane and very... very expensive. there has been another person with a turbo in his 124 and i think he pushed it to 450 hp!!! i think he was either at www.mercedesshop.com or www.m b w o r l d.org

i think he used the original tranny but you 2 should get together and talk. but please keep me informed! i always love to see stuff like this. have a good day and good luck!
 

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1996 Mercedes Benz C 220
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Hmm, damn, every time I think of this kind of thing: building up a w202 rac carand using everything from the C43AMG model, but the engine, which would be from a c20 kompressor, converted to turbo (self fabricate most parts) and use a lightest shell with a manual trans, and as few options as possible, reinforced, and stipped of exess crap... this would be sick fast, but SO DAMN expesive, and then I dont have enough "inside info" to feel confient about doing something like this myself. Self confidence- yes, waste of time and money to create something half done and a dead end project condfidence? Nope.

So, with that in mind, good luck on your's!
 

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1980* 280CE, 1999* C280,1986* 300E, 1995* AMG C36, Current 2004 E55k
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'97 E420, '86 Mustang GT, '88 GT, '89 LX
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Honestly, for those of you who really want to go fast without REALLY breaking the bank... don't bother rebuilding the stock stuff and turbocharging. It will just keep adding up. I understand some of you will cringe at the thought, but why not stuff in a Mustang 5.0 with a 5 speed trans and a single turbo??? My only concern is where the shifter would come through, and you would have to fit a clutch cable in.
Think about it, you can build mounts and whatnot yourself if you really are mechanically capable. That's the hardest part! You can wire in the factory 89-93 Mustang wiring harness and ECU (mass air) if you dont want to do a stand alone system.
Stock, you get a good engine that makes 225hp and 300lb ft of torque and you can run it up to about 5500rpm stock (6250RPM cutoff). Add just a turbocharger and the matching fuel system, and you've got a 500HP capable daily driver. It's really that simple! My old turbo Stang made about 370hp, mildly modified 5.0 with a small turbo. My buddies Stang made over 500hp with a aluminum headed 302, stock cam, and a PT61E. Engine cost him $1000 and turbo system cost him about $1800.
You can find a complete 89-92 (93 has crap pistons) Mustang 5.0 for $500-1500. You can sell all the parts you dont need, and realistically you could make half of your money back. A rebuild on the engine is childs play, and costs about $150 in parts! The T5 transmission is simple to rebuild, and they're a dime a dozen. And you can do simple upgrades to beef it up a little bit. Rebuild parts for the trans can be anywhere from $100-$500 and you can do it yourself! You can get a wiring schematic, remove any parts of the Mustang engine harness that you dont need and wire it into the stock Mercedes wiring so that it's a turn key setup. You can get a simple 255lph in line fuel pump, that will set you back $150 with an upgraded and relayed wiring setup.
Or, you can find a complete or almost complete turbo Mustang project...... there are SO many out there that you can buy for $4000 or less. You have everything you need already there, pull it out and modify what you have to for your vehicle. The limiting factors on the 5.0 engine would be the 500RWHP level, the engine blocks all crack at this power level.
Honestly, as I'm typing this I'm beginning to question my own sanity. Here I've been looking for a 24v 300TE so that I have a more powerful base to start off with and eventually turbocharge it...... Hell I might be better off tossing in a 5.0........ Or that built 351 (5.8) that I have sitting around......
 

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Oh, dont worry, I KNOW about the electronics side of it, that's no sweat mostly, but the mechanical side of it... not so much.

For example, I'm a Mazda guy, and before that, I was into hondas, and I know what engines will fit into what, with how much work, compatible transmissions, that for example, the 89 CRX can have its rear brakes and hubs swapped out for disc, and 5 lug. I know that you can give a first generation Mazda RX-7 a rack and pinion steering conversion, and althrough a bit tough, even independent suspension if you want... (for cheap too, if you know how to weld!)

But about benz: except for a VERY select few, who despite knowing it would be easier nd 100% cheaper to do it with a different make, WANT to make a franken merin, MOST people and owners of Mercedes cars dont experiment with them so much, dont care about preformance modification, so there is much less resources for research, virtually no aftermarket scene the way there is one for let's say, Lexus, or even BMW, and generally stuff like that. I love Benz, but I just dont know, for the money, I could build something a lot better, because Mercedes just isn't a "racing," "diy," or a "car guy" brand, like for example Mazda. Spec Miata is there for a reason!:D

As for the above post: I will NEVER, and I mean NEVER put a garbage Mustang engine into a piece of engineering like a Mercedes. These cars just dont deserve such a fate. Ironically, this is what some people DO do to miatas and RX-7's already, but it just completely ruins the car.

Also, with 400hp, you forget proper brakes, and proper suspension, which on a MB will not be cheap...

Oh, and... you loose AC, power steering, a nice smooth engine, the world's best automatic( ahahahaha!) and anything even remotely resembling luxury, so why not just sell the Benz, and get some other car as the base? Unless done tastefully, advanced modification of a MB is hard. Everything is built like a swiss watch, with little reserve, and with exacting maintenace, and MEANT to be kept stock. But not the way someone like Honda does it aparently... lol.

EDIT: some people take shit too seriously.... and have no sense of dirty humor.
 

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'97 E420, '86 Mustang GT, '88 GT, '89 LX
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Wow, that was the weirdest reply I've read in a long time. I'll just ignore the last few sentences.
I also take offense to your ridiculous response regarding the Mustang's engine. There is NO car on the planet with the aftermarket following that the Mustang has, and all of the late model Mustang parts are due to the venerable 5.0 engine. You knock the Mustang's engine, yet the 'built-like-a-swiss-watch' MB straight six suffers from repeated blown headgaskets, water pump failures and other problems that the 'garbage Mustang engine' does not suffer from. You think you know a bit about cars, that just showed you know little. No offense, but your uninformed and obvious bias shows that you are not really a true enthusiast. You're just enthusiastic about whatever you're interested in and cannot respect other people's interests.
That being said, you want a performance car out of a 20+year old family sedan. To do what you wanted to do, and build a reliable 350HP Benz you will have to spend $20k. Unless you're a seasoned mechanic and have a full shop at your disposal, which is obvious you're not and you don't.... you're going to have to spend a whole lot of money to keep the 'high' MB standard in your project.
And what the hell, I'm going to address your ridiculous comments at the end of your rant. I think you should be banned for spewing that kind of crap. Why do you have to use black people as an example? I'm Iranian, and I look at WHITE people with more disdain and distrust than Black people. Why not use 'those white people, you know... the one's that make the rest of them look bad. Like Britney Spears.' I'm honestly disgusted with your response, I thought I could ignore it but people like you we could do without.
 

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Obviously, yes, I speak my mind, I am biased, and I am only an enthusiastic about things I'm interested in! You described me right on the spot up until there! As for having no respect for people's interests, that is not true. I do respect other people's interests; I am just not "into" stuff I'm not into... how the heck am I supposed to help that? It's not like I can FORCE myself to like American cars if I just don’t like them! That's how most people are, dude, nothing shocking.

The thing about the mustang: Even the "New" one still uses a solid axle suspension, and for a 2008 car, this just is NOT acceptable. They tried to cut the cost with the wrong thing, and therefore ruined the handling.

(The reason for it was that making it "properly" would have mad the car more expensive, and they did not want to cut costs on other things, like making it lighter by using less crap.)

This... makes the engine irrelevant, because if you cant turn or brake, it doesn't matter how fast you can go. Straight line speed and max HP numbers are not everything. Most American muscle cars are known to handle terribly due to poor suspension design, excessive weight, and generally cheap build quality. Ford could have changed this, but they didn't, did they?

As for using that specific race: Dude, you make it sound 20 times worse than it really was, and it's gone now. I apologized, and everything too... Yes, I could have used ANY race. I was describing the views of early America and the present day views of the automotive world.

And... Performance out of a 20 year old car? A w202 is not 20 years old; the 1994 model is only 13 years, while the 2000 model is 7. Where the heck did you get 20 from?

And, just like you said, I DO want to make a crazy Benz, but I also know how hard it would be, re-read my post please, I cleared the offensive nonsense out of it. I think you missed the important stuff because of your rage at my lunatic open mind.

EDIT: A lot of people seem to be offended by my views when the talk comes down to "that", they don't understand what I'm really trying to say, take my comments too seriously, and freak out sometimes. I take subjects like this as lightly as I would taking about how my bread tastes over morning tea and breakfast. I know... I know... and I know... but it's just not a big deal to me, and I find it almost amusing when people get the reaction that they do!

We all could talk bout my race, Russian, and how we are all drunks, mafia members, and criminals, but that is not true. We could talk about Asian people, we could talk about Arab people and their stereotypes, Heck, anything... white people are not an exception to the rule of course!

Let me ask you one final question. Do you get offended by Carlos Menica? Well, my views are like his.... I bash everybody, not one specific area, even myself, but I never really mean it seriously.... and say sorry at the end, and make fun of myself just as much... watch his stuff on you tube sometimes!

-Max.
 

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'97 E420, '86 Mustang GT, '88 GT, '89 LX
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Obviously, yes, I speak my mind, I am biased, and I am only an enthusiastic about things I'm interested in! You described me right on the spot up until there! As for having no respect for people's interests, that is not true. I do respect other people's interests; I am just not "into" stuff I'm not into... how the heck am I supposed to help that? It's not like I can FORCE myself to like American cars if I just don’t like them! That's how most people are, dude, nothing shocking.
A true enthusiast gives credit where credit is due. I strongly dislike Honda Civics, but sometimes I see one thats tastefully done and I compliment it. I despise the Nissan 240SX, but the odd time I see one that's had a Japanese Silvia S15 treatment and I give it props. I hate fartcan mufflers, gay stickers, guys who go on and on about how their 'GSR motor in a CRX with Type R cams and Type R flywheel will smoooke your stock Mustang" but if their car is faster than mine... I will commend them about it, then joke about how they needed to swap engines just to be faster than my car was when it was stock. This is because I am a true enthusiast, and I won't turn around and just outright call something garbage because I'm not ignorant enough to assume that I am all-knowing. If I dont know, I'll find out about it or I'll let you tell me about it if you seem knowledgable enough. As for respecting other people's interests, there's a difference between liking something and giving it respect. You dont have to like something to have some respect, you showed your lack of it by your senseless remarks. However, I'm still willing to look beyond that and stick to the automotive purpose for which we are here.

The thing about the mustang: Even the "New" one still uses a solid axle suspension, and for a 2008 car, this just is NOT acceptable. They tried to cut the cost with the wrong thing, and therefore ruined the handling.
Ummm, the 'new' Mustang has kicked many asses on the ciruit with it's solid rear axle. It handles better than a lot of independant rear suspension vehicles stock for stock. Go out and drive one, stop regurgitating things Car and Driver told you.

(The reason for it was that making it "properly" would have mad the car more expensive, and they did not want to cut costs on other things, like making it lighter by using less crap.)
Again, stop regurgitating what the magazines have told you. Being a bench racer is boring. They cut that out of the equation because the Mustang was always the 'affordable sports car', although I dont really see it as a sports car. Nothing in it's price range offers the same performance, comfort, driveability, nor prestige. Yeah, thats right. I said it.

This... makes the engine irrelevant, because if you cant turn or brake, it doesn't matter how fast you can go. Straight line speed and max HP numbers are not everything. Most American muscle cars are known to handle terribly due to poor suspension design, excessive weight, and generally cheap build quality. Ford could have changed this, but they didn't, did they?
We weren't talking about the new Mustang. Hell, we weren't really talking about a Mustang. I said to install an OLD Mustang engine into a W124 because dollar for dollar it will be the easiest way to make your car fast. And there is no way you can make 500 reliable HP with a Benz straight six + trans for $5000. Hell, I could do it with a Mustang engine for less but I'm a mechanic....

As for using that specific race: Dude, you make it sound 20 times worse than it really was, and it's gone now. I apologized, and everything too... Yes, I could have used ANY race. I was describing the views of early America and the present day views of the automotive world.
No need to respond here.

And... Performance out of a 20 year old car? A w202 is not 20 years old; the 1994 model is only 13 years, while the 2000 model is 7. Where the heck did you get 20 from?
I will quote you here "I've recently been extended an offer for an '86 300E with a 5-speed transmission for $1,000... The body is not in the best of shape, so it will merely be a parts car. This will be the starting point for a relatively intensive project for my '88 300E."
That is what you said, right? Who ever spoke of a W202? The last time I checked, the 300E was classified as a W124? The parts car is 22 years old and the project car is 20 years old. Performance out of a 20 year old car.

And, just like you said, I DO want to make a crazy Benz, but I also know how hard it would be, re-read my post please, I cleared the offensive nonsense out of it. I think you missed the important stuff because of your rage at my lunatic open mind.
I understood what you want loud and clear. I have built and helped build many performance vehicles over the last decade. It will cost you a lot of money to build a car with Mercedes drivetrain to not only make, but handle 350+HP. These cars (300E) were never offered as performance vehicles, and when they wanted a performance version they contacted Porsche to help them build one. A 1988 300E will take a lot of time and money to make it fast, which is why people turn to other engines such as the tried and true 'garbage' Mustang drivetrain.

EDIT: A lot of people seem to be offended by my views when the talk comes down to "that", they don't understand what I'm really trying to say, take my comments too seriously, and freak out sometimes. I take subjects like this as lightly as I would taking about how my bread tastes over morning tea and breakfast. I know... I know... and I know... but it's just not a big deal to me, and I find it almost amusing when people get the reaction that they do!

We all could talk bout my race, Russian, and how we are all drunks, mafia members, and criminals, but that is not true. We could talk about Asian people, we could talk about Arab people and their stereotypes, Heck, anything... white people are not an exception to the rule of course!

Let me ask you one final question. Do you get offended by Carlos Menica? Well, my views are like his.... I bash everybody, not one specific area, even myself, but I never really mean it seriously.... and say sorry at the end, and make fun of myself just as much... watch his stuff on you tube sometimes!

-Max.

I can respect being open and honest, and I have a tendency to be too open and honest sometimes which can cause people to be offended. I too have friends from all walks of life, but I would never use them in a degrading manner to make some ridiculous point. I use words that some people cringe at, and I do not consider myself racist. I call my Jewish friends cheap Jews, I tell people because I'm Iranian I'm going to blow up their house, I say What's up Ni**a? to my good black friends, I tell my Greek friends not to walk behind me cuz I dont trust them.... But that's with the comfort of my own friends, who know I'm not using these terms in a derogatory manner and I'm never going to do that. Context is everything, and the context which you used showed blatant disregard for people's feelings and clearly showed you for what you are.

Carlos Mencia is a comedian, people watch him because they want to watch him. This is a public forum, people did not come here to be insulted and offended by some random punk who wants to "speak his mind". Being Russian is not a race, it's a nationality. We're not here to talk about your, or Osama's, stereotypes. We're here to talk about cars, Mercedes W124's in particular. I tend to push the envelope as I pointed out above, I speak my mind loud and clear. But I am not a racist, which I cannot say for you. You can deny it all you want, but that is what you are. Good luck with your project.
 

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99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB
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Nothing more humorous then two guys with no knowledge of the W124 history or performance capability arguing how to make one go fast !!!

The Porsche built 500E/E500 came many years after the AMG 5.0L and 6.0L "Hammer" V8 variants and the 3.2, 3,4, 3.6L AMG M103-12V and M104-24V variants.

Not to mention the Mosselman and TurboTechnics twin turbo installs in the early nineties.

The W202 AMG C36 wasn't too shabby either !!!!

If you want to offer accolades to the 5.0L Mustang then do it on a Mustang forum...
Most here aren't interested in an American V8 in a W124 chassis, be it Mustang or Chevy LS2 !!!

Cheers !!!
 

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'97 E420, '86 Mustang GT, '88 GT, '89 LX
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269 Posts
How the hell did this get from modding to racism? You guys are crazy.

Btw nice screenname nasty nate - Half Baked was hilarious.
You missed that part of his post, pre-editing. And thanks, I watched that movie one too many times.... still trying to get a good screen cap for my avatar. lol

Nothing more humorous then two guys with no knowledge of the W124 history or performance capability arguing how to make one go fast !!!
..............................................................................................................................................
If you want to offer accolades to the 5.0L Mustang then do it on a Mustang forum...
Most here aren't interested in an American V8 in a W124 chassis, be it Mustang or Chevy LS2 !!!

Cheers !!!
I beg to differ. Nothing more humorous than a guy who spends $15,000+ to build a car that makes less than 300HP and thinks THAT's fast!?!?! The day YOU'VE actually built a fast car, then you can ridicule me for not knowing how to build a fast MB.

I wasn't trying to offer accolades to the Mustang, my point was simple and I'm definitely not the first to propose such a thing. This sort of thing has been proposed before, as I recall during one of my searches on this forum I stumbled across Converse Engineering who built a 4.6L DOHC 300TE. That engine was from a Lincoln, which then found it's way into the Mustang Cobra in almost identical fashion.

Regardless, I'm not going to stand around while someone makes ridiculous and untrue comments when I know better. I do not claim to know much about the W124, but I do know one thing: If you want to make it go fast then you'd better be prepared to spend a LOT of money. My suggestion was that if you want a fast MB, unless you're prepared to drop a ridiculous amount of money into a $3000 car you have other choices.

You've spent $15k on a turbo install, plus the cost of the car and other mods, and although it is a VERY nice car...... it's not fast. Sure, it can do 0-60 in under 6 seconds and run the quarter mile in the high 13s... but I drove an almost stock 1989 Mustang to a [email protected]

Tell me, if I install a 5.0 with a supercharger, 5 speed trans, plus all associated costs that it would not only be faster than what you've got... But could it be done for a fraction of the money you spent? Sure, it would be a bastard child but I never said my suggestion would be keeping the MB heritage true, it was just to go fast for cheap.:thumbsup:
 

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You know, I wander off for a day and suddenly there is the smell of burning tires and the sound of squeal...no that wasn't it at all.

The purpose of this forum is to exchange ideas, gather technical information and enjoy, wait, ENJOY the cars we have. We have folks who have done conversions from Benz to GM motors, we have folks who have kicked up their bankvault tight 124s up to so real speed with either Mosselman or TT systems, all while remaining smooth as silk. We have folks with 15 year old 500Es that will walk just about any street car under 60K and we have a couple of the under two dozen 185MPH Hammers on the Planet.

I have been on lots of boards and found this to be the overall most informative of the 124 boards and its proof is in the cars on the road, and the help folks give as we work and play our way through projects that we do just because we want to do them. We do them because we are improving performance on what is considered one of the few best cars ever built, period.

So, we are hear to learn and NOT to slam other's projects. We are here to share that technical knowledge in the 124s that has made us ignore shiny new toys for the more reliable, solid and strong.

Now, as for the posting of any racial or ethic commentary, it is not really welcome on the board. Period. While you or Carlos Mencia might think it clever, we have members from all over the world, of all ethnic and economic backgrounds. They come here for the technical knowledge, not the witty repartee of the Mind of Mencia. Should you wish to play in a sandbox where that is more accepted, wander up to Off Topic but please be sure to wear a cup. Trust me on that.

Thanks for cleaning up the posts. I appreciate it. NOW, back to playing with cars.
 

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Oh man, I just realized..... the guy I was 'debating' with wasn't even the person who started this thread.
 

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why go with 5.0 mustang engine when u are already there why not go with ls1 5.7l engine then get some bolts ons cam it and that should be enough for ya :)
 

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why go with 5.0 mustang engine when u are already there why not go with ls1 5.7l engine then get some bolts ons cam it and that should be enough for ya :)
I think the main problem with either the 5L Ford or the 5.7 in the 124 body has been the firewall and structural mods. The 5.0L Benz motor [M119] already requires some mods for everything to play well and the fit is mind numbingly tight. Pulling the Benz motor out has less than 1cm clearance even if you have the motor stripped as well as possible.

The problems are exacerbated by the need for custom headers to work around the steering box and everything else.

Now we have a 500E body right now and we are looking at dropping a Nissan VG30DETT twin turbo with 6 speed. It will give around 600RWHP when fully molested IF and it is a BIG IF we can get everything to play well together. We have seen it done so we know the application works without firewall or structural reconfiguration.

We have tried the Supercharger on the M119 motor and, until we can come up with a better sizing and fitment solution we are at a standstill. It works, but not as well as it should/could.
 

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Mcbear, good to see someone not afraid of going a different route with their setup. Those Nissan engines are nice, but did you go with the 300ZX engine over the Skyline engine due to availability in North America? The searching I've done has shown that quite a few have gone with the straight six RB26DETT rather than the V6, but maybe I missed those buildups.
As for the 5.0 Mustang engine, after much searching here I've seen that the consensus is that the steering box is very much in the way. Also, isnt the 5.0L MB engine DOHC? I can definitely understand why it would be a tight fit.
 

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mcbear i agree with u why don't u consider going with supras 2jz then do a single turbo conversion i think that engine would be the best for w124 its light and its inline 6 it has been done in 500e with 700rwhp
 

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Oh man, I just realized..... the guy I was 'debating' with wasn't even the person who started this thread.
No f'ing shit, sherlock!!!

All I said was that I too, dream of a crazy MB race car project, but I know that it will be a pain in the ass to make one right. (and then I went on to describe my dream W202 project using the AMG stuff in the lightest w202 body available.)

As for the blatant disregard for people's feelings: "Teh internetz... serious buizness!"
Whatever, I'm young, and still a student, this is a public forum, sorry for being an ass, but on the second thought I really DONT care if I hurt your feelings or not... they are YOUR feelings, not mine, and I wont be effected because this is the internet!

And the rustang's suspension is still garbage, btw.

And for the really nice guy who posted: Yes, I know... I'm just to used to a certain place where stuff like this is everyday crap, and no one really minds it because we are all crazy! Rotary engines for the win!

EDIT: HEY! Now, THAT'S an idea! Put a turbo 20B wankel into a W202!

If you want to offer accolades to the 5.0L Mustang then do it on a Mustang forum...
Most here aren't interested in an American V8 in a W124 chassis, be it Mustang or Chevy LS2 !!!

Cheers !!!
That was like... my point.. but I just coudnt... help myself there...
 
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