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1993 E320 AMG, 1991 190E 2.6 Sportline 5spd
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MB has always had sporty two seaters going back to the 300SL. And they've had sporty sedans like the 500 and the AMG prepared cars. What they don't have traditionally, is a clientele (in the States) who buys these cars new and then works on (and tunes) the cars themselves. Only recently when the older cars have become affordable (like the 124 series), has the need for tuning by the young lions become so prevalent. I.e., given today's prices of new cars, it's become attractive for young males to buy older MB's for $2,000-5,500 and then have the discretionary income to put another grand into speed accessories. Unfortunately, MB is not sympathetic to the DIYers and retro tuning of their older cars. Basically, the factory is working against you, would suggest you find a 500, AMG Hammer etc or just buy one of their sport models new. As beautiful as my old wagon is, when I drive 60 miles to the dealer, they look at my car like it's some white trash cousin to their new stuff. I know better, but still.....

And yes, you are correct that there used to be certain accessories available to the 124's that mirrored what AMG was doing to the cars.....and even more with twin turbos. Seems to me that's come back a little bit...but it will always be supply & demand.

Kevin
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I know all of MBs cars. None of them were sporty. The SL is a grand touring car, not a sports car. The closest thing MB ever had to a sports sedan was the 190e 2.3/2.5-16v, and even that was less sporty than the E30 M3, it lost all comparisons to it (although I would take a 16v over an M3 any day). The 500E was again, a cruising car, its nothing like the E34 M5, or the C4 S4, both of which were only offered with a manual transmission, whereas the 500E only came only with an auto.

And MB has nothing to do with the aftermarket. The aftermarket is made up of 3rd party manufacturers which don't bother making performance parts for Benzes cause there's no one out there to buy them. The majority of mercedes owners don't modify their cars. This forum is a perfect example. A person makes a post asking for upgrades and performance parts, and you get responses like "oh your engine is already tuned" or "the MB engineers did a good job already" etc. Give me a break, no one wants to read that. That's not helpful. Lets be more constructive here. There are people here with modified benzes so if anyone knows any aftermarket manufacturers that still make performance parts for the W124, please list them, I am curious to know myself.
 

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'92 300TE 4matic 280,000miles, '92 300TE 4Matic 'Ice Blue Metalic' 101,000miles
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I know all of MBs cars. None of them were sporty. The SL is a grand touring car, not a sports car. The closest thing MB ever had to a sports sedan was the 190e 2.3/2.5-16v, and even that was less sporty than the E30 M3, it lost all comparisons to it (although I would take a 16v over an M3 any day). The 500E was again, a cruising car, its nothing like the E34 M5, or the C4 S4, both of which were only offered with a manual transmission, whereas the 500E only came only with an auto.

And MB has nothing to do with the aftermarket. The aftermarket is made up of 3rd party manufacturers which don't bother making performance parts for Benzes cause there's no one out there to buy them. The majority of mercedes owners don't modify their cars. This forum is a perfect example. A person makes a post asking for upgrades and performance parts, and you get responses like "oh your engine is already tuned" or "the MB engineers did a good job already" etc. Give me a break, no one wants to read that. That's not helpful. Lets be more constructive here. There are people here with modified benzes so if anyone knows any aftermarket manufacturers that still make performance parts for the W124, please list them, I am curious to know myself.
Apparently, you don't read or listen. Your definition of 'sports car' is skewed. They have had two seater, V-12 screamers. Is the SLR McLaren enough of a "sporty" car for you, or do you also deny MB's long racing history on the track? They have had the 500 & the AMG Hammer, like I already said. They, MB, however have a design philosophy and a promise to their buyers. The German will delivery speed with luxury, or just luxury if you want that. They will never give you a balls-to-the-wall crude piece of machinery like the Viper. I already talked about the kind of owners that buy new MB's-you're doing nothing but making a case for my own arguments.

As far as your mighty M5 against the 500E for example (which are clearly the same class of cars-sports tourers), the 500E is faster in the 1/4. The M5 is a hard revving little tourer and the 500E and Hammers do the same with a lot less effort and a hell of a lot more class, space and aplomb. See link:Hemmings Motor News: MB 500E vs. BMW M5
Yeah, too bad MB didn't have a 5sp available in the States for the 500, but it probably wouldn't have sold well to the buyer who wants a new MB in the first place-for all the reason I stated above.

Which begs the question; why are you even a MB fan? You are trying to turn the car into something it isn't. I said there are plenty of owners here on this forum running twin turbos on the sixes, with suspension tweaks and getting all the performance you should need. Or is it just sour grapes because you want to tune your Benz for way less than 1K in bolt-ons?

The point was that the Germans have taken these engines already to a performance level and if you want more, you have to SPEND. Run of the mill bolt-ons are not going to get you there for the money. The only huge hp advances you're going to make on these engines are turbo or supercharging. That's being plenty "constructive" and it's telling you the truth at the same time. If you want to modify your Benz, follow what AMG did and their design philosophy. You're not going to out-think the original engine designers with cheap bolt-ons that deliver mega hp gains.


Kevin
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I know all of MBs cars. None of them were sporty. The SL is a grand touring car, not a sports car. The closest thing MB ever had to a sports sedan was the 190e 2.3/2.5-16v, and even that was less sporty than the E30 M3, it lost all comparisons to it (although I would take a 16v over an M3 any day). The 500E was again, a cruising car, its nothing like the E34 M5, or the C4 S4, both of which were only offered with a manual transmission, whereas the 500E only came only with an auto.

And MB has nothing to do with the aftermarket. The aftermarket is made up of 3rd party manufacturers which don't bother making performance parts for Benzes cause there's no one out there to buy them. The majority of mercedes owners don't modify their cars. This forum is a perfect example" A person makes a post asking for upgrades and performance parts, and you get responses like "oh your engine is already tuned" or "the MB engineers did a good job already" etc. Give me a break, no one wants to read that. That's not helpful. Lets be more constructive here. There are people here with modified benzes so if anyone knows any aftermarket manufacturers that still make performance parts for the W124, please list them, I am curious to know myself.
I would strongly agree with a slight modification that " the majority of owners in NORTH AMERICA don't modify their cars ".

Reason is basic...during the initial aftermarket performance era of the W123 and up chassis cars, their were no USA tuners. You had your AMG USA locations but the parts flowed from Germany.
Go to a site a basic as the MB Club UK site and see the mods still being done on the older engines and chassis.
Why...Still many thirty year old NOS performance parts available...of course at a price.
Look at EBAY Germany and your mouth will water.

To build a modified 124 it is necessary to know how to source globally what you need..
This in itself is a very expensive proposition.

Then it's knowledge of the basic systems from injection to ignition.

A M103 - M104 can be made to go very fast...
Boost is the easiest bolt on, but the trick is in the fuel management.

Master the fuel and ignition and you'll make so real and reliable power !!!

I'm currently building an all steel "tribute" to the "Strattons 1AMG 320CE widebody"
The detailed build thread is on MBClub UK Forums
Thread to date has had 243 posts and 14563 views...still only a third of a "Jaymaneks" C126 widebody build thread

Rough idea of the build "



Installation of a period TurboTechnics UK kit...last dyno pull 302lbft torque at the rear wheels on a Mustang load dyno = approx 400lbft at the crank



Ed A.
 

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Some of this is just semantics and the true definition of a production 'sports car'. Most of the production "sporty" cars fall into separate categories today like: sport tourer, luxury GT, sports sedan, retro sports car, exotic sports car and supercar. The Viper is one of the few real production 'sports cars' left. Even the Vette today would be considered a luxury GT.

The SLR McLaren is the rowdy son of a perfect marriage: MB weds McLaren (their racing partner) and AMG builds the engine at their plant. 'One man, one engine'. Each engine is assembled by one engineer; that engine is signed, sent to Woking, England and the car assembled there. Perfect bled of speed and high tech throughout. One of the worlds fastest cars, a engineering marvel and a MB....so MB hasn't forgotten racing or "sporty" cars. And....we weren't talking about production #'s here, just the assertion that MB never made "sporty" or "sports cars", which is false.

Kevin
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What about enlarging the displacement on M104? Isn't that the way E36 got its powerpalnt? By giving M104 2.8 a 350SD crank? There are companies in D which modify engines that way along with ECU and camshafts mod.
 

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What about enlarging the displacement on M104? Isn't that the way E36 got its powerpalnt? By giving M104 2.8 a 350SD crank? There are companies in D which modify engines that way along with ECU and camshafts mod.
Again, if you follow the path AMG did and consider turbo or supercharging as well, you'll get there. As we've said, along with RBYCC's personal experience and comments, it will COST $$. My personal idea is to have that guy in Seattle (on another forum), turbo my m103. Of course, whatever you do is your own road to hp success. On these engines for the money, turbo and/or supercharging will give you the most gains. Especially when you start talking about tearing down an engine, re-boring, fitting custom rods and pistons, different cams and porting the head etc.

I guess I can't understand or wrap my head around the fact that most of you guys are ignoring what's already been done by guys like RBYCC. His twin turbo m103 is BADDDD ASS. There's a fantastic resource....just politely ASK him. You're trying to reinvent the wheel here, which is just plain....:twak:

Kevin
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Apparently, you don't read or listen. Your definition of 'sports car' is skewed. They have had two seater, V-12 screamers. Is the SLR McLaren enough of a "sporty" car for you, or do you also deny MB's long racing history on the track? They have had the 500 & the AMG Hammer, like I already said. They, MB, however have a design philosophy and a promise to their buyers. The German will delivery speed with luxury, or just luxury if you want that. They will never give you a balls-to-the-wall crude piece of machinery like the Viper. I already talked about the kind of owners that buy new MB's-you're doing nothing but making a case for my own arguments.

As far as your mighty M5 against the 500E for example (which are clearly the same class of cars-sports tourers), the 500E is faster in the 1/4. The M5 is a hard revving little tourer and the 500E and Hammers do the same with a lot less effort and a hell of a lot more class, space and aplomb. See link:Hemmings Motor News: MB 500E vs. BMW M5
Yeah, too bad MB didn't have a 5sp available in the States for the 500, but it probably wouldn't have sold well to the buyer who wants a new MB in the first place-for all the reason I stated above.

Which begs the question; why are you even a MB fan? You are trying to turn the car into something it isn't. I said there are plenty of owners here on this forum running twin turbos on the sixes, with suspension tweaks and getting all the performance you should need. Or is it just sour grapes because you want to tune your Benz for way less than 1K in bolt-ons?

The point was that the Germans have taken these engines already to a performance level and if you want more, you have to SPEND. Run of the mill bolt-ons are not going to get you there for the money. The only huge hp advances you're going to make on these engines are turbo or supercharging. That's being plenty "constructive" and it's telling you the truth at the same time. If you want to modify your Benz, follow what AMG did and their design philosophy. You're not going to out-think the original engine designers with cheap bolt-ons that deliver mega hp gains.


Kevin
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LOL! First of all, you better reread this whole thread. I never said I was trying to modify my car, I am simply helping someone else who's asking for performance parts by posting websites which offer them. You are confusing your posts. There's NOTHING that you can tell me about these engines that I already don't know, and there's nothing that you can tell me about Benz that I already don't know. You probably didn't even understand the chassis codes and cars I was talking about in my previous post, that's why I am not even going to bother anymore.

Take a look at the websites I posted. Renntech sells quality cams, which are no where near close to being a "less than 1K bolt on". And never did I claim that you can tune your benz for less than 1K, where did you get that from? The biggest bang for less than 1K that you can get is a chip, that's pretty much it.
 

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What about enlarging the displacement on M104? Isn't that the way E36 got its powerpalnt? By giving M104 2.8 a 350SD crank? There are companies in D which modify engines that way along with ECU and camshafts mod.
The bore on the 3.6L is larger than the 2.8L/3.2L engines. Using the 350SD crank would give you a 3.5L engine, you would need to also bore it out to get a 3.6L. So in the end, you'd be changing the crank, rods and pistons. You might as well just by a used 3.6L AMG engine and swap it.
 

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The bore on the 3.6L is larger than the 2.8L/3.2L engines. Using the 350SD crank would give you a 3.5L engine, you would need to also bore it out to get a 3.6L. So in the end, you'd be changing the crank, rods and pistons. You might as well just by a used 3.6L AMG engine and swap it.

Good point, if the opportunity arose to get a deal on an AMG engine
wouldn't it involve a long line of upgrades or exchanging other AMG parts to make it work?
I mean, for all that trouble wouldn't it be more cost effective to just buy an AMG model?


Note:

All the responses are very informative,
though we should set a standard and not be argumentative.
There will always be someone that knows more or has had more experience than the other.
Why not appreciate the knowledge being given
than getting into a pissing contest?
Look at it this way, you get all this info at your fingertips and at the measly cost of an Internet connection...



I have to agree that MBZ does a great job at getting the best performance out of their engines with a high degree of reliability, as does BMW.
I'm sure that leaves room for debate on design & engineering flaws.
I'm talking from my own experiences of owning & DIY maintenance of import, domestic, and euro cars.

Also, I don't have the cash flow that some car owners have.
Whatever decision I make on a vehicle, I'll have to be the one that repairs it and can't simple drop it off at the shop for them to sort it out.

So I always look for the low cost upgrade in a perf' chip. Though the majority of MBZ owners they market to, don't entertain such nonsense. They just buy an AMG.

my two cents...

by the way

What are all the models that had the M104 engine?
and
Was there more than one type of trans they used with it?
 

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Good point, if the opportunity arose to get a deal on an AMG engine
wouldn't it involve a long line of upgrades or exchanging other AMG parts to make it work?
I mean, for all that trouble wouldn't it be more cost effective to just buy an AMG model?
There is the AMG 3.6 M104 that was used in the C36 and E36.
Problem is that it used more advanced management technology then the 124 cars.
The complete management electronics would have to be swapped with the engine.


So I always look for the low cost upgrade in a perf' chip. Though the majority of MBZ owners they market to, don't entertain such nonsense. They just buy an AMG.
Can't chip a 124 M103-12V or M104-24V as they used rather crude managment systems !!!

Ed A.
 

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Okay, first of all, just to clarify, 500E dominates E34 M5 hands down thats mainly why they built the car (It also destroys various mustangs, C4 corvettes, lots of tuner cars...etc ;P). The M119 pretty much dominates almost any BMW production engine....ever. Also, the 190e 16v dominated as soon as AMG got their hands on it, read about it. When the 190 16v came out in 1984 or whatever, some records....I believe it was.....almost all of them got broken, something like 250km/hr set over 50,000km. I can't remember the specifics. Also from what I understand AMG put the E30 M3 down like a rabid dog after Mercedes FINALLY dropped those Cosworth guys, 420bhp out of a 2.5L??? right thats not sporty. Lets not forget the most important "not sports car" the 300SL Gullwing, wow what was Mercedes thinking designing such an unsporty car. Their lack of sports car knowledge really hindered them through the years with all the DTM titles and cars like the SLR, CLK Black, and the SLS. They have partnered with many tuners of the years to make some of the most unsporty cars ever! If the M5 is a sports car, I would think things like the EV12, the 280SEL 6.8 (the AMG racer not he MB production car, the 6.3 is a damn fine example though), the Brabus 6.5L 500E, etc would be too. If sports car is a weight thing, the E34 was only slightly lighter than the 500E and the E39 was like 400lb heavier than the 210 E55!

That's half the reason I am posting, I feel better now.

Back on topic. Its going to be hard to tune any "older" German car because they were built mostly topped out from the factory because Germans aren't allowed to mod like Americans, thats why they have tuning firms like Brabus, AMG, etc.

Modding a mercedes is no small matter the m119 and m104 cost more new than most whole cars cost today and mercedes spent millions of Deutsch marks to get it there. The 3.6 AMG motor is sourced from a 2.8 because the 3.2 bore is too large, there is a crank swap, rods, pistons, valves, cams, etc. It is much easier just to go out and get a 95 or 96 C36 motor (PRE M.E. units, only 97 had ME) for $2500 and just drop it in your car. Its a DIRECT bolt in, you can even run it with 3.2 fuel and ignition, reset the adaptation and it will drive. You won't put real power down till you can get it tuned, which really isn't that much of an issue, its been done. You really need to build your .3 to handle that mess or its going to blow chunks. The 104's can handle plenty o' boost, search whipplem104 he has like 300rwhp 104 car. Search function is your friend! All most any option to make decent power the right way is going to leave you 6k+ in the hole (Mossleman makes a TT kit for about that much, they sell you everything you need).

My suggestion is if you have to stick with m104 then do the 3.6 swap (turbo that if you want). If you can live with moving to a v8 buy a 500, but read everything you can, they are EXPENSIVE to repair if you buy one that wasn't maintained. By the time you source cams and do head work etc on your 3.2L you'll be at the cost of a 3.6 swap. Contact Jonathan Hodgeman in Atlanta Ga (AMG East) I am working with him on M119 upgrades. He has some experience with mossleman turbo kits and he has been threatening to do a 3.6L swap and I have been threatening to help him. Speed is just a question of funding!

-Mike
 

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Okay, first of all, just to clarify, 500E dominates E34 M5 hands down thats mainly why they built the car (It also destroys various mustangs, C4 corvettes, lots of tuner cars...etc ;P). The M119 pretty much dominates almost any BMW production engine....ever. Also, the 190e 16v dominated as soon as AMG got their hands on it, read about it. When the 190 16v came out in 1984 or whatever, some records....I believe it was.....almost all of them got broken, something like 250km/hr set over 50,000km. I can't remember the specifics. Also from what I understand AMG put the E30 M3 down like a rabid dog after Mercedes FINALLY dropped those Cosworth guys, 420bhp out of a 2.5L??? right thats not sporty. Lets not forget the most important "not sports car" the 300SL Gullwing, wow what was Mercedes thinking designing such an unsporty car. Their lack of sports car knowledge really hindered them through the years with all the DTM titles and cars like the SLR, CLK Black, and the SLS. They have partnered with many tuners of the years to make some of the most unsporty cars ever! If the M5 is a sports car, I would think things like the EV12, the 280SEL 6.8 (the AMG racer not he MB production car, the 6.3 is a damn fine example though), the Brabus 6.5L 500E, etc would be too. If sports car is a weight thing, the E34 was only slightly lighter than the 500E and the E39 was like 400lb heavier than the 210 E55!

That's half the reason I am posting, I feel better now.

Back on topic. Its going to be hard to tune any "older" German car because they were built mostly topped out from the factory because Germans aren't allowed to mod like Americans, thats why they have tuning firms like Brabus, AMG, etc.

Modding a mercedes is no small matter the m119 and m104 cost more new than most whole cars cost today and mercedes spent millions of Deutsch marks to get it there. The 3.6 AMG motor is sourced from a 2.8 because the 3.2 bore is too large, there is a crank swap, rods, pistons, valves, cams, etc. It is much easier just to go out and get a 95 or 96 C36 motor (PRE M.E. units, only 97 had ME) for $2500 and just drop it in your car. Its a DIRECT bolt in, you can even run it with 3.2 fuel and ignition, reset the adaptation and it will drive. You won't put real power down till you can get it tuned, which really isn't that much of an issue, its been done. You really need to build your .3 to handle that mess or its going to blow chunks. The 104's can handle plenty o' boost, search whipplem104 he has like 300rwhp 104 car. Search function is your friend! All most any option to make decent power the right way is going to leave you 6k+ in the hole (Mossleman makes a TT kit for about that much, they sell you everything you need).

My suggestion is if you have to stick with m104 then do the 3.6 swap (turbo that if you want). If you can live with moving to a v8 buy a 500, but read everything you can, they are EXPENSIVE to repair if you buy one that wasn't maintained. By the time you source cams and do head work etc on your 3.2L you'll be at the cost of a 3.6 swap. Contact Jonathan Hodgeman in Atlanta Ga (AMG East) I am working with him on M119 upgrades. He has some experience with mossleman turbo kits and he has been threatening to do a 3.6L swap and I have been threatening to help him. Speed is just a question of funding!

-Mike
I pretty much said all this, just not so specific. I should have gagged myself when he said that MB never made a "sporty" car or "sports cars". I mean if he said and believes that and doesn't consider the 300SL a 'sports car', or the McLaren SLR "sporty" (not to mention the V-12 two seaters MB made), then where do you go from there? It's just a waste of energy....

whipplem104 is a really nice and knowledgeable guy....he's gonna turbo my m103 when I get around to it. It doesn't make sense to open those old motors up, bore, replace rods, pistons, cams...flow the head etc. Much better like you say, to bolt in something fresher or turbo what you have.

Kevin
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You should leave Nos for hot rods only! I think nitrous could damage many functions on a newer Benz! I had Nos installed in my 5.0L conv. Mustang years back. Great bang for your buck but, I had to replace spark plugs and check the motor everytime I used the spray! Also, my timing chain snaped and I had to replace it with gear drive! What I'm trying to say is that with Nos, many mods to your car are needed prior to installing the infamous spray!!!!
$$$$$$$$$$$$
In addition to installing NOS:

  • Forged Pistons
  • Larger Radiator
  • Higher Degree Thermostat
  • AMG/Custom Water Pump(possibly change to a smaller pulley)
  • Larger Oil Cooler(maybe a sump for an additional quart or two)
So no, this is not cheap... I'm working on this, but first building a supercharger, then going for the NOS route, but it ain't cheap when it come to experiments. Going for the dry-shot. I'm building a drag car not a daily driver.

I had ran across this
READ!!! Free HP for W201 & W124 owners! (Pictures!) - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

They claim a noticeable difference.
But I didn't, when I tried it on my w201 I used to have
I remember reading that in a DIY articl on Rick's website(2Phast).:thumbsup:
 

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Yeah Kevin, I got a little excited....

Actually pretty much everything is forged so you don't need to do any internal work for NOS. You just need to be aware of heat management! Make sure your mixture is right any I bet a 104 could do a 75hp shot with no problem. Probably easier than a 119 because you don't have to drill out the air mass. If the motor can handle the boost people are throwing at it stock then a little NOS shouldn't hurt anything if you do it right. Why not do the 36 swap AND the NOS? These motors are stout! I had a Benz engineer tell me the M119 bottom end was good for 800HP + no problem. If you have ever had the sub pan off these bad boys then you know this is serious business.

After reading Whipple's stuff it seems pretty good. I would think that .6 swap with a high gear like a 3.27 would be worth more than 50hp at the wheels.
 

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Something I learned in the forum a couple of years ago, shopping upgrades while the engine was blowned. The W124 Sedan option of power is made in model numbers.
(E320, E420, etc...)

I learned;
  1. If I wanted more power, I should have bought a 400E/E420.(why? mileage is only 2 mpg difference with 275HP vs. 217HP) or Find an E36 or C36 (with 268HP and about the same mpg) and buy it, the time and money is cheaper.
  2. The Wagon(S/T124) does not come in a V8 so an engine swap is forseable
  3. The Coupe(A/C124) does not come in a V8 so an engine swap is forseable
I'm butchering my car right now, only understanding that it's my project car and not something to show as a daily driver or classic car. This will always be my lifetime hobby tinkering. If I find the right E420, 500E or even an S320, then I'll buy it and leave it alone. Otherwise, don't try to find ways to come up with a "Cheaper" way of doing things, other's here having been doing for year with trial and error. That's what the forum is for. A little use of the search button won't hurt. Even google has links to this and other Mercedes forums.

FYI turbocharging is expensive and not most kits are NLA(no longer available).

Like whipplem104, he's probably in his project for a lifetime. Unless you're ready to do the same, just be happy with what you got. Otherwise, you'll never end the project car madness.


Good Luck!:thumbsup:
 

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Thanks for all the info

I can deal with the moderate performance (and good gas mileage) of my M104/C280 for now

I figure I'll avoid all the drama and find an AMG W202 or W210 model in the near future

otherwise I'll find an old E30 BMW 325i and do an E36 M3 engine conversion
I know a BMW mechanic/racer in the bay area (Bill Arnold) that did this with a 90 or 91 318i sedan as a sleeper car and it's pretty impressive :cool:

here's a 72 Bavaria he built and raced
http://rides.webshots.com/album/204329032GhvkOt
 

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Classic, did he tub out the rear or cut into the inside wheel wells?

By the way, the last of the M104 was in 1997 on a C36 and E36, very rare and had something that a lot of people criticized, ASR. But still the best engine ever built, with the exception to a M103 of course.
 

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The 3.6 AMG motor is sourced from a 2.8 because the 3.2 bore is too large
M104 2.8 Bore x stroke 89,9 x 73,5 mm
M104 3.2 Bore x stroke 89,9 x 84,0 mm

The pistons have the same pn in the EPC too...

there is a crank swap, rods, pistons, valves, cams, etc. It is much easier just to go out and get a 95 or 96 C36 motor (PRE M.E. units, only 97 had ME) for $2500 and just drop it in your car.
I guess it's easy to find a 3.6l AMG M104 in the USA. Well... It's not that easy here. AMG models are extremely rare. Diesels are the most common breed. It's easier for me to source a 350SD engine than E36/C36 AMG one.

I wonder - what if I just swapped the crank? Getting 3.5 M104 - would that work with perhaps an ECU mod? I don't need to recreate the full 3.6 AMG, but more power and torque would be welcome.

Its a DIRECT bolt in, you can even run it with 3.2 fuel and ignition, reset the adaptation and it will drive. You won't put real power down till you can get it tuned, which really isn't that much of an issue, its been done. You really need to build your .3 to handle that mess or its going to blow chunks. The 104's can handle plenty o' boost, search whipplem104 he has like 300rwhp 104 car. Search function is your friend! All most any option to make decent power the right way is going to leave you 6k+ in the hole

My suggestion is if you have to stick with m104 then do the 3.6 swap (turbo that if you want).
I have a .4 tranny and AFAIK it's not as solid as .3 Getting a .6 to work is a big problem but I'd like the 5th and so .5 which is not solid at all. I don't know if all this things can come together and work...

(Mossleman makes a TT kit for about that much, they sell you everything you need).
Do they? Their site doesn't really seem to work properly.
 

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Cruise Control
'87 300TD/'90 300D/'94 Quattro/'89 Vanagon TDI/'01 EV Weekender VR6
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I'm butchering my car right now, only understanding that it's my project car and not something to show as a daily driver or classic car. This will always be my lifetime hobby tinkering. If I find the right E420, 500E or even an S320, then I'll buy it and leave it alone. Otherwise, don't try to find ways to come up with a "Cheaper" way of doing things, other's here having been doing for year with trial and error. That's what the forum is for.
Heh heh, butchering is fun and not really all that rational as an economic investment in time and money. I'm now way way into my project money-pit, and have no way to justify it other than the simple understanding that I love the challenge and fully plan to keep the car till the bitter end.
 

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