Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
1992 300CE, Engine M104, (2002 E320 4matic Wagon—Retired)
Joined
·
329 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello all,

During a recent trip to the shore, the transmission started making a loud whining noise, and it started slipping. Things got worse, after I accelerated out of a toll booth. Going about 70-80 there was a touch of hesitation, and down to 30mph the slip to neutral. Shifted around a bit and the gear engaged. Now I am afraid to drive it to the shop.

Got codes p2005, p2314 and P2069 (error stored in egs unit). I feel like I am doomed. Should I assume front pump is shot, torque converter and transmission damaged? Why would a car with sensors up the wazoo not give you any warning before you kill an important component like the transmission?:mad:
 

·
Registered
2001 E320 wagon
Joined
·
733 Posts
I think P2005 is a MAF code?
but the
P2314 = ETC one or more messages from N93 central gateway not on CAN bus
is an ETC code. Have you checked for fluid incursion from the electronic plug in the transmission to the ETC? No drinks spilled in the shifter? anything that can mess up the signal to the ETC can cause all sorts of weird problems.

if you have carsoft what are the actual transmission codes it shows not the OBD codes.
 

·
Registered
1992 300CE, Engine M104, (2002 E320 4matic Wagon—Retired)
Joined
·
329 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I have not checked the ETC yet. But, we did check it a few months back, and it was bone dry. I guess I can open it up in the AM and see if there is anything in there. The whining noise makes me think that something is mechanically screwed up, a pump maybe? Apart from that I am hoping that it is some electrical issue like the conductor plate etc.

Here is a video clip of the whining noise. It increases with higher RPMs:
w210 transmission whining noise - YouTube
 

·
Registered
2000 E430
Joined
·
3 Posts
Hi, I have the same issue in my 2000 E430 with 145,000kms. I haven't solved it but I can tell you what I have done so far. The car is new to me with a full service history but I have no idea if the trans oil/filter has ever been changed.

1. Same deal as you - slipping into neutral and whining. I turned it off, put it into park, started again after a few seconds then it clunked into first when I moved the gear lever to D. I managed to get the few km home using this method.

2. Then I took the car to my local Euro specialist who cleared the codes and took the car for a test drive (with me). It changed perfectly and smoothly into every gear with no unusual noises. However he could not get a N3 speed reading on his generic reader. He checked his fathers E320 with the same reader and got a speed reading. He was concerned but I was happy that the car seemed to be changing gears as new. He got some "slipping" and "speed implausible " codes. Unfortunately I didn't make it the 10km home before the whining/neutral issue returned.

3. I went to this forum and read every word on the transmission sticky. I ordered a conductor plate,connector plug and filter kit and got 5 liters of oil from my Euro guy. I even bought a dip stick off eBay. I changed everything without too many dramas (thanks to the sticky/photos/youtube). My connector plug was dry but the oil was slightly brown. There was no debris in the pan and only a slight smear of grime that I wiped off. I limped back down to the Euro mechanic. He cleared the codes (again), didn't get a N3 reading (again), went on a perfect test drive (again) and I declared the problem solved.

4. Everything was great for about 3 weeks until one day I was about 30km from home when I heard the now familiar whine (just like your YouTube clip). I got home using the old on/off routine and spoke to a work mate who is an ex breakdown mechanic. He recommended an auto trans specialist near where we work (40km from home). I went and spoke to the auto guy who was experienced and helpful. He was surprised a 722.6 was having issues at such a low mileage (me too!!).

5. I had my Euro guy clear the codes (again) and carefully drove towards the trans specialist. Nearly made it, too. About 10 km short I got the by now usual whine. I limped the rest of the way and dropped the car off. The auto specialist called me in the afternoon to say that the trans is dead and needed a rebuild at $4500 - 12mths/40,000 km warranty. He said that the issue is low oil pressure due to the filter being blocked by debris. He had fitted the filter I supplied and added the required amount of oil and the trans shifted perfectly (again). He showed me the "old" filter (the one I fitted about 600 km ago) and it had metal shavings in it. He impressed me as being honest so I believe the filter and shavings were both mine. I think maybe the whining sound is something grinding and me limping it home hasn't helped. I drove the car home gently without issues and changed the filter and added more oil yesterday. There were a few specks of metal in the pan but nowhere near as many a when the auto trans guy showed me the filter. I'm going to let my wife drive the car to and from the railway station (8km round trip) and change the filter a few more times to try to get a few more miles out of it before i stump up the big dollars. I'm still not really convinced the trans is dead because it shifts so well when it is working properly - but I'm no mechanic so what would I know. I'd like to think it's a solenoid not firing properly or something else I can fix but I guess that is only wishful thinking. The local Mercedes dealer wants $400 just to look at it so I'm trying to avoid that.

Well, that's my saga and I hope it helps. I'll be following this thread closely so I hope you come up with a nice cheap fix I can replicate here. Good luck!!

Karl (in Sydney, Australia)
 

·
Registered
1992 300CE, Engine M104, (2002 E320 4matic Wagon—Retired)
Joined
·
329 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks Karl. Are you going to bite the bullet and pay the $4500 (australian right?). Wow, that works out to be $4649 USD. Over here that is probably the trade-in value of the car. I am hesitant on dumping more money into it, as I have done that with my other Mercedes (300CE) which has a mechanical transmission, and it does slip now and then (seems like a MB thing).

I have parked it since the problem occurred last week, and I might take it to my indy when I get a chance. At least he has the SDS and some expertise to suggest what is wrong.

One thing that came to my mind was that, the car was involved in a small accident about a few months back. A taxi ran a red light and hit a truck at full speed and the truck hit us (we were stopped). We were beginning to move from a stop and after the hit, the car pretty much stopped moving although the transmission was left in drive. The hit took off the front bumper etc, which we had repaired, and it looks like a fender bender, but there is a chance it may have caused transmission damage (my total theory).
The mild buzzing whining noise started after that, and reached a crescendo on the trip last week. I had not experienced any slippage before, and it only happened when I started revving it up and pushing it.

The car is at 105K, always serviced properly, and I was about to do the tranny service. Seems like a sad ending if this is it. I am not sure if I can swap this with a used tranny from a salvaged vehicle. I certainly can not justify dropping the value of he car to fix it. Stay tuned. I will post updates on this post.
 

·
Moderator
93 SL500, 95 SL320, 96 S320, 98 S500, 2002 E320 4Matic Wagon & A little 91 5.0 FORD Mustang
Joined
·
8,064 Posts
Karl,

I'm sorry for your problems, the 722.6 will tolerate lots of abuse, and the kilometers on it is low.

You've done the right things, but one thing you could have done better is really remove all the fluid, so you have a REAL reference to go from. I'm assuming no fluid is up into Transmission computer? Your fluid is up to level? You have a new filter?

I am not sure if your transmission is the second or first generation? First generation has problems K2 bearing which ruins some of the planetary gears, and second generation will not have a torque-converter drain plug.

Your intuition is right on the solenoid, a word of advice when the conductor plate is removed, and more for the situation when a filter is blocked. Is measure the impedance of the solenoids with an ohm meter. They should in the 40 to 50 ohms. Clean out the screen filters, and replace the solenoid o-rings while you there too. The pressure is regulated by one solenoid which oscillates at a frequency of 1000 cycles if this solenoid dies, you would get a code when it works electrically(or not working well-no code will come out).

I would have exchanged all the fluid, but you are okay now.

Find out what generation of transmission you have by the torque converter drain plug? You may have K2 problem

I would check these solenoids, screen filters, and screen filters-this is cheap.

Martin
 

·
Moderator
93 SL500, 95 SL320, 96 S320, 98 S500, 2002 E320 4Matic Wagon & A little 91 5.0 FORD Mustang
Joined
·
8,064 Posts
Delikanli,

I would connect and reconnect the connections at the computer, and at the transmission.You want to cycle the connections.

Check to solenoid pack as in the previous post.

If you elect to swap, a transmission from another car. Make sure you swap out the Transmission computer and shifter from the other car too, or you may be into another nightmare; even though, it is the same year and model!

Martin
 

·
Registered
2000 E430
Joined
·
3 Posts
Martin,
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll test the solenoids when I change the filter again in about a week. My car is the update model which I understand does not have a converter drain plug. I was hoping to replace the ATF by doing a few filter changes over time and diluting it with the 5 liters of fluid needed each time. This issue has kind of forced me to do it a bit sooner.

Karl
 

·
Registered
1992 300CE, Engine M104, (2002 E320 4matic Wagon—Retired)
Joined
·
329 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Leak/seep right under torque converter

So...I was able to look under the car yesterday and took some pics. I found a relatively fresh looking seepage under there where the torque converter meets the engine.

One of the plastic plugs was missing. The oil looks almost like engine oil in color...It looks like it is coming from inside the torque converter (as there was some in there).

Now, when I initially start the car the gears engage for a short period of time. I was able to put on reverse, and come back on drive, but that was it. It was on neutral afterwards.

I think it is time for that tow to the shop...I am guessing torque converter, and pump seals are suspect, but this is just a guess. I want to be able to measure the amount of fluid in the tranny, but the car does not come with a dipstick. Amazing.

Or, maybe I can order the dipstick, measure how much oil is left in there and go on from there. I suppose it could be in limp mode as there is not enough oil inside the transmission. So, that would probably be next week, and the wifey is getting pretty impatient (eek!)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
1992 300CE, Engine M104, (2002 E320 4matic Wagon—Retired)
Joined
·
329 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Transmission plug is leaking

I finally had some time to check out the transmission connector plug and it indeed was leaking. There was a bit of tranny fluid in there. I cleaned it up and put it back—as I do not have a spare to install yet. The male part of the plug only had one red o-ring.

So, I am not sure if this is the source of my problems or not. I tried the car after the cleanup, but it was still doing the same thing. It initially engages the gears, after 30 secs to a minute it stops engaging the gears. It really seems like an electronic problem as it initially works for a bit, and then it decides not to work.

I had cleared all codes and reset the transmission adaptation, and the codes have not returned yet. Everything looks clear.

For next steps, I will be replacing the plug, the fluid and filter. I am not sure if I should get into the conductor plate while I am down there...

I got these values for the pressure valves on Park:

Nominal Modulation Pressure Valve y3/6y1 : 720mA
Actual Modulation Pressure Valve y3/6y1 : 725mA
Pressure Modulation pressure valve y3/6y1 : 1500mbar
Switch ratio torque converter bridging : 0 1/255

ASK Contact: Open
Kick down switch:On
It also stated that the Emergency Program was OFF
 

·
Registered
'01-E320 & 02-ST2
Joined
·
31,631 Posts
If I were having symptoms and found fluid at the pilot bushing/adapter plug, I would next check the TCM for fluid incursion before doing anything else.
 

·
Registered
1992 300CE, Engine M104, (2002 E320 4matic Wagon—Retired)
Joined
·
329 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
TCU

I checked the TCU. Unplugged it, shook it..Dry, dry, dry. No tranny fluid whatsoever. The plug will be replaced, I am not sure about the conductor plate yet, although I am inclined to do it while I am in there.

When I wiped the tranny fluid with paper towels it looked very yellow for some reason....
 

·
Registered
'01-E320 & 02-ST2
Joined
·
31,631 Posts
I checked the TCU. Unplugged it, shook it..Dry, dry, dry. No tranny fluid whatsoever. The plug will be replaced, I am not sure about the conductor plate yet, although I am inclined to do it while I am in there.

When I wiped the tranny fluid with paper towels it looked very yellow for some reason....
How does your coolant look?
 

·
Registered
1992 300CE, Engine M104, (2002 E320 4matic Wagon—Retired)
Joined
·
329 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Will check coolant

I will check and report back. I have read about ATF getting in through the tranny cooler. I think I will know more when I drain the fluid. The coolant level seemed ok though.
 

·
Registered
'01-E320 & 02-ST2
Joined
·
31,631 Posts
I will check and report back. I have read about ATF getting in through the tranny cooler. I think I will know more when I drain the fluid. The coolant level seemed ok though.
Check the tank when it's cool and not running and see if there are streaks/film floating on it. You'd have to unscrew the lid. It doesn't take much coolant to contaminate the AT, and that said, it's really rare in the W210, so it's probably not that anyway. I'm asking more as a think to rule out.
 

·
Registered
1992 300CE, Engine M104, (2002 E320 4matic Wagon—Retired)
Joined
·
329 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Valvoline Max Life or Valvoline SYNPOWER ATF 134?

I do not want to resurrect this discussion, but after much research I decided to bet on valvoline max life atf as the replacement fluid. So, I did not order it as I can pick it up locally. But now, i am beginning to doubt my decision. I know that it is not listed on the MB approved fluids list. But how about this Valvoline SYNPOWER ATF 134? Can we get it here? It looks like it is not something that you can pick up at Walmart. Any suggestions will be much appreciated.
 

·
Registered
1999 E55, 2001 E320, 1990 560 SEC, 2004 ML350, 2001 ML55, 1995 S500, 1998 SL500, 2010 E550 Sport zoo
Joined
·
7,035 Posts
Did you check coolant for contamination as Cecks suggested ?

You need to eliminate this potential issue - it's a biggie !
 

·
Registered
1992 300CE, Engine M104, (2002 E320 4matic Wagon—Retired)
Joined
·
329 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I peeked into the coolant reservoir, no cappucino on cap (there were some weird green deposits above the cap), I can not really see the reservoir as the fluid is in the section below. I sucked some with a straw, and that looked ok too. You can kind of see the atf color on my pictures (torque converter). I am going to check the ATF again when I drain it. I am waiting for the stuff to arrive to get it going.

I looked around for an ethylene-glycol test, and it seems like you can throw some atf from your transmission on to a pan and wait to see if it sizzles (not supposed to) to detect for water or ethylene glycol.

I reset all the codes again, reset adaptations etc. The car initially runs fine for the first 30 secs to a minute. Then something happens and the transmission just goes into neutral. I started wondering if it could be the shift module itself, or not. Since, It starts acting up after I shift around a bit.

TCU communicates with CS so, it looks like it is working fine. When the transmission fails to engage, it does not throw a code, and the TCU shows that it is still in STANDARD mode vs EMERGENCY.
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top