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This is a 99 S420, 310k miles, with 114.3 engine and an EGR problem. 2nd air injection pump failed and replaced. Before and after that event engine temp would be a normal 80c for 20/30 mins then climb to 100C. Sometimes it would drop back to 80c but rarely did/does. Every vacuum hose has been checked, every injector checked, control module checked, every spark plug checked, every coil checked, but ECM keeps throwing P0410 code. The high temp bothers me because I believe it to be related to a high CHT which could result in a burnt valve. 25-year MB tech has gone over it with a fine tooth comb. He says he's seen this before and the only solution that he found fool proof is to rebuilt heads. Seems there is an air channel in the heads that allows the recirculating exhaust gas to enter cylinders for re-burning and when those openings get clogged from varnish/sludge, the P0410 code starts showing up and rebuilding is the only solution he has every found that works. That's a 2k+ job so I'm looking for a chemical solution to remove varnish/sludge from the head's air channels but can't find any access to the chamber through which the air travels into the heads or any chemical compound that others have successfully used in the gas tank or oil. I'm aware of SeaFoam and its competitors and have poured a great deal of that stuff into the gas tank but nothing like that has had any effect. My research across the internet has not turned up anything else helpful, except "bite the bullet and rebuild the heads". Hoping someone here has seen this problem before and found a more cost effective solution. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated (except "bite the bullet" recommendation).
 

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Mark,

Welcome to the forum, and thank you for your post...

To bad you do not live in Southern California. At my buddies shop, they charge $700 to $800 to replace an engine(if it is a engine problem, which I do not it is), and near where I'm at(Northern California) I get those engines all day long for around $500 to $600 with 100k Miles, so it is just not worth the "rebuilding of the heads", and not worth the fix at 300k Miles.

Do you DIY to a certain degree? If you can, I would do a compression check on a warm engine, and leak down test to find the "burn valve" your self. Harbor Freight sells both tools, and some big box auto parts stores even loan or rent both tools, but they are $20-$40each from Harbor Freight... Their is plenty of Youtubes on haw todo both tests if you never done it....

Honestly, I think you have two problems, but I could be wrong too. Your air injection pump can be bad too,but these pumps never fail, but you test the pump electrically as it is electric motor doing the work. the terminals stick out, and one can power the pump all alone and hear it run, and measure the voltage at the terminals of the pump when the car starts up, and the voltage should stay on for a few minutes at the terminals, and then cut out to verify the computer is turning off the pump, and the computer could have a short in the drive-transistor operating the pump, and that may be the reason for a burned pump too..

Been there done that where the drive transistor shorted on, and the smog pump was on all the time, and pump burned out... This was the bugger that burned out...

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachments/r129-sl-class/1990641d1475864687-what-did-you-do-your-roadster-img_2493.jpg



The air injection on these Mercedes cars of these vintages all work the same for late 90's cars, and it has a electrical solenoid driving the air injection valve that pushes that air into the heads, and the solenoid is under/ behind the passenger head light(a little square cube). Two are there one is for the EGR, and the other is for the air-injection pump... The vacuum line can not be getting to the solenoids too from the intake..

Now a P0410 code can come from old to low octane fuel too if you are running on regular instead of premium fuel that can do it. Also, if the codes were reset, you might be taking too long achieve the "readiness codes" because it is a city driven car with virtually no highway driving. Most OBD testers have "readiness" flag readout which is for the emission sections of the engine. It looks like this on a tester:

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachments/w140-s-class/2476286d1545980154-mava-needs-help-p0455-gas-cap-img_5447.jpg

As you can see, my air is checked off, and no way I can get a P0410, but my O2 are not ready, and that took a few hundred highway miles to clear off...

Here in Kalifornia, no way would I pass emissions if my readiness codes were not set because it would register "computer not ready", or it would have a "check engine" light because of a fault.

One more on the P0410, the air check valve has this rubber elbow near the exhaust, and the elbow always is split-opens and that maybe causing your problem too. I have a picture of this, but not readily with me now. Need to find it...

On overheating,

I assume you are on your second radiator. Replaced the heater tee and front tee twice, and replaced the thermostat once or twice too(I change them like every four years). Pressure tested the cooling system at a safe level of 12PSI for leaks too..

Your clutch fan if you spin it with the engine hot, but engine OFF. If you spin it hard, you should get half to one revolution at best. Is a great clutch, but spinning more than that it is NO-GOOD !! Replace that sucker...

It does not mater if you have coolant or distilled water. I say this because for the moment mine is running on distilled water, and I have been going up 7000-8000 ft mountain passes with no problem, and I'm at 220k miles. Never use tap water to fill of flush a radiator system on these cars...

Hope it helps...

Martin
 

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Well, I wrote a pretty long reply to Martin's post but it never got posted. When I clicked on the link to make the post, the post simply disappeared from my screen never to be seen again. With that, I'll try again.......
Thank you Martin for each and every one of your suggestions and recommendations. I agree that rebuilding the heads is not a cost effective solution, which is why I was hoping to find a chemical solution to try and solve the P0410 code problem. Used 100k engines in my area are $1200+ if you can find them. At that price plus install it ends up being a toss up between engine swap and rebuilding the heads. I can probably buy one of your engines and have it shipped to me for what I can buy a used engine locally.... LOL But a used engine gives me the jitters because one never knows if they are only buying someone else's unsolved problem.
I did not mean to imply that I actually had a burnt valve. As far as I know I don't. But if the engine temp increase is the result of high CHT's, I know that there is a risk of burning a valve if the high temp is not resolved.
From a cold start the injection pump comes on when it should, runs as long as it should, and shuts off when it should. All of that has been verified. But 15 or 20 minutes after starting it will throw a P410 code, sometimes longer than that and sometimes not. The temp does not seem to matter insofar as when it throws the P410 code.
You said: "The air injection on these Mercedes cars of these vintages all work the same for late 90's cars, and it has a electrical solenoid driving the air injection valve that pushes that air into the heads, and the solenoid is under/ behind the passenger head light(a little square cube). Two are there one is for the EGR, and the other is for the air-injection pump... The vacuum line can not be getting to the solenoids too from the intake.." Search as I might I have not been able to find those two solenoids and if you have time to take a picture of those, I would be most greatful. If my car has then I'll certainly get them replaced.......

You also commented: "the air check valve has this rubber elbow near the exhaust, and the elbow always is split-opens and that maybe causing your problem too." WOW! I would like to see a picture of that rubber elbow if you can manage to find the one you mentioned in your message. At least I'll know what I'm looking for when I crawl under the car.

About the radiator..... I've held up on replacing it (again) until I can resolve the P0410 code issue. The radiator is a $350 to $400 expense I can postpone for awhile as I'm confident that the high temp issue is not causing the P0410 code to be thrown; rather it is the code being thrown that I believe is causing the high temp. Do you happen to know where the temp gauge in the dash gets its reading for how hot the water is? I suspect it is coming from a sensor plugged into a water jacket on the block but I don't know if it is being measured before or after the water has been through the radiator for cooling.

Thanks so much for your detailed information and help. Once I know those two solenoids you mentioned are good and that there is no air leak at that rubber elbow near the exhaust (and where it's located so I can find it), I'll at least have a little more piece of mind about what I'm doing. Shucks, you never know. I may just buy one of your engines and have you ship it to me. LOL
 

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Oh, I had those disappear on me too. Highlight and copy before you post until you get the hang of it...

Their is a 98 S420 in Savanna at Cash N Carry. It has about 160k miles, and they sell their import engines $250? that is an option? Remove the plugs. Remove the belt. Get your 27mm socket, and turn the engine clock wise only. Compression test it just to see f you have any dead cylinders. If you can get a battery from the yard, that will better.

https://row52.com/Vehicle/Index/WDBGA43G8WA373669

https://www.ritewaycars.com/?autocheck&vin=WDBGA43G8WA373669

Auto Parts Price List | Cash-N-Carry Savannah GA

Check these self serve junk yards for cars:

https://row52.com/Search

https://www.lkqpickyourpart.com/locations/

Some of those self serve junk yards one can buy a warranty for like $30 to $40 for a whole year... I paid $200 for mine with a warranty...

Where the engine is pulled for you

Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market

I got this two days ago...

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210-e-class/3013218-merry-christmas-misfire-3.html#post17854016

Everything in life is a gamble. My buddy(post2) in the picture has gotten 5 m119's, and he just changes the timing chain, chain guides, and the rubber air pump elbow.

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124-v8-400e-e420-500e-e500/2878673-dropping-m119-five-liter-v8-into.html#post16527001


We just look up the car for low miles open the valve cover. Turn the engine(CLOCKWISE !!! ONLY !!!) to not feel any crunch, and compression check.

The solenoids are right on the chassis of the car behind or below the head light. If you disconnect the feed at the solenoids you should feel vacuum all the time while the engine is running... I will see my car for those relays.

Rock Auto has the Nissans for $250 which is the best next to the Behr radiator.

The elbow is at the back in the picture...

Martin
 

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Those are some awesome links and I am most appreciative that you were willing to share them. From those I searched a bunch of other sites as well and while I would like to believe I could take advantage of going somewhere and yanking an engine myself, my body says that ain't gonna happen. Maybe 10 or 15 years ago I would have undertaken that task but not any more. LOL. So I'm stuck with making a "blind" decision on an engine, having someone pull it from the car, then either going after it or having it shipped to me. One site that seemed to have the most engines for sale had only a half dozen where the mileage and cost was stated. (Search Results). That was out of 90 or so listed nationwide; those not stating any mileage or cost only had location and "call for quote". o:( The engines that had cost/mileage in the ad were all north of $1k (except for one mentioned below). I suppose I would be ahead of the game is I knew for sure which of the Benz years had engines that were a direct swap for my 99. There is one in Gainesville (abt 25 miles away from me) that has 191k miles for $550. I suppose the high mileage accounts for the lower cost when compared to other posted prices on that list in the link above.

Are you sure that the pic you sent of the air check valve isn't from an M119 motor? There ain't one of those on my 114.3 engine, certainly not where your pic shows one to be. There IS a vacuum control valve on my 114.3 engine but it is on the front of the engine next to the dip stick. That is the valve that triggers the air injection pump and there is a rubber hose from the pump to the side of that control valve. The valve is connected to a metal tube at the bottom of the valve that goes down the front of the engine and disappears towards the rear of the engine. Not sure where or to what that tube is connected but there is no way it is connected to the heads.

If I had confidence that whatever engine I buy is solid, I would be happy to pull the trigger and go after it with my truck and trailer. I have even considered buying an entire running 99 S420 and keeping my own car for parts or parting my own car out to try and recover some of the cost. But the only one I could find that seemed worth buying was located in Washington state and I'm not sure it would be worth flying there and--without any faith in the vehicle itself--trying to drive it back to Georgia. o:( I found one or two that were closer in distance but that were much more expensive. You guys out west seem to have prices that a much better than what's available on this side of the country......

As to the solenoids, no joy I'm afraid. I removed all of the covers over the passenger side headlight as well as one that shields a computer connection for a diagnostic computer that I've seen my tech use on the engine. Just ain't no solenoids there, my friend. Zip, Nada, Nothing. I'm wondering if the M119 engine has those but the 114.3 engines do not; or, perhaps, the units sold in Kalifornia have such solenoids while cars on the east coast don't.

I guess I'm just up against a rock and a hard place with my predicament and there doesn't seem to be any wiggle room for me to maneuver. But regardless of what I eventually decide I am so very grateful for this benzworld site and for the time and expertise you have shown to me as you have tried so hard to help with my decision. Maybe it's time for me to sit down in my lounge chair with a fresh bottle of Crown Royal and see if I get any good ideas as I work my way to the bottom....

Thanks again Martin. I'll be in touch soon.......
 

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Mark Mark...

My bad I'm looking at too many cars...

The pre 95/96 have it behind the light. The picture is 95...

So.... These V8's are M119's not this "114.3"(where did you get that number???) Even google " Mercedes W140" go to the "Wikipedia Page", and you will see on the engines that the V8 is a "M119", so NO CLUE WHERE THIS 114.3 came from???

My 98 S500 is the same car for the most parts on the car to your 99, so the engine layout is similar, and this model year DOES NOT HAVE A EGR valve, but your EPA tag is similar to mine, and you only have a electric air pump with a vacuum controlled check valve.

The air pump is on the passenger side, and control solenoid is on the right side of the block in front. The vacuum is taken from the back of the engine through one of those skinny plastic hoses.

These are great cars, but everybody has different abilities, and emotional limits to to how far into the "unknown" they are willing to go.

Sadly, these cars do not part well at all. More like not at all. The best you can do is sell the pump under the back bench. The pump near the fuel tank, and maybe the arm rest.

My take is most of these cars need seat covers by now. Craig can set you up with some leather skins as many guys here have used him...

Yes, western cars are better with rust free examples, but many are available everywhere. These cars are a "dime a dozen", yet the V12's are the ones that command the high-dollars, and even those you can find them for few-thousand.

My two-cents to your problem... let me tell you a brief story how I got into the W140 mess...

I need a car to drive around clients before the housing market went bust in 2008. The Chevy something(I was going to get-I cannot remember) was too expensive in 2005/2006, so this W140 was cheaper option, so i got the 96 S320, but shortly after(few thousand miles or so) I had an emissions problems, and the transmission FAILED :crying:crying:crying. I went to a few places at the time, and they want like $5k/$6k to fix it :crying:crying. I just said F-that... So I looked into it(I chewed on the idea for a few years). this is coming from a guy who paid for people to change spark plugs(me). I did my own oil changes on a few occasions.

I rebuilt my own transmission, and I still do it...

I think you can save your car, but i do not know what it looks like, but every W140 is worth saving. I personally like to troubleshoot my own problems now, but just like everyone here is ready to help. The forum is loaded with lots of info.

I think you can get your ducks in the row to fix this, but it does take some effort with driving around. Burning fuel. Sweating it out, and be filthy junk cars being lathered in oil and grease. Missing meals . It is never a "cake-walk" Nothing in this world is easy, but throwing in the towel is easy... Not having car payments is motivating to me :thumbsup: ,so for me suffering for a month or two is better than suffering for four to five years with payments...

These M119 engines are not rare, but the high mile ones for near a thousand dollars when I can test, and pull out one for few hundred is worth the gamble for me.

I would go out to look at the savanna car. Most of these cars that are complete are in for limp mode on the transmission because the electrical plate in them goes out(user service item), or the electrical connector to the electrical plate starts to leak, and the fluid wicks-up to the (TCM) Transmission Computer, and the car starts to shift funny, or goes into limp mode(2nd and reverse), or sometimes the shifts very hard which is a spring in the valve body that breaks, orrrr all these folks are sold a bill of goods of they need a NEW Transmission :eek. Where the factory electrical plate is about $200 for the factory plate, and several hours of work to fix it. The electrical connector: New connector($15), and some electrical contact cleaner to clean the TCM, or the spring $10-$20...

Their are stories where people bought these and other model Mercedes cars because of some of these symptoms, and get the cars next to nothing in price..

Other possibility of finding a engine is to look at the dealers that sell "junk/crashed" cars like IAAI or COPART. You can find one for a few hundred, and it may be running condition too...

I wish I had the space, or I'd be swallowing up cars as some go for nothing..

https://www.iaai.com/Search?filter=RFB

https://www.copart.com/

https://erepairables.com/

My area has a large selection, and all you have to do is look on Craigslist, and call.

https://sacramento.craigslist.org/search/pta?query=Mercedes

Martin
 

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Another batch of some fantastic links that are pure gold..... Thank you for sharing.

I have visited each of those links and while I haven't made up my mind just yet, there are some very promising leads in each of them. I have no problem driving and looking at prospective motors but I'm approaching 80 and just can't physically get too involved with anything I find. Thankfully, I have a MB mechanic who will check out anything I find if it is reasonably close to me. It won't free if I have him put his stamp of approval on what he sees but it will nonetheless be cheap insurance against getting something he's not prepared to install and work on. I've just got to hang back and hope something worthwhile, at least by description, shows up on the radar. I'd like to have something with less than 150k miles but from what I have seen on the sites you were gracious enough to share, it may cost more to get what I'm looking for than for something with higher miles. I am lucky to not need something "day before yesterday" so I can afford to hang back and hope something shows up in my searches. I'll see what turns up in the next couple of weeks and hope that I can find something that's not some ridiculous number of miles away and comes from somewhere that has a good reputation for telling the truth about what's for sale or, perhaps, even offers a warranty with the purchase. That would, of course, be a plus.......

Thanks again for all your help, guidance, and expertise. I'll let you know if I find anything that seems to work. For what it's worth, I wasn't joking about buying an engine from you and having it shipped to me presuming you have looking at it and find it acceptable. I don't know what the shipping cost might be from your coast to mine and the cost of crating and shipping it might be the deciding factor.

But let me see what I can turn up closer to home before I do anything else. I might just get lucky.....

Thanks again, Martin. You are truly a gem among all the rocks that are floating around on the internet.

Mark
 

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Mark,

Yea, at 80 I cannot relate, but yea take it easy if you know your limits!! At 78 my father is still breaking concrete-He has his three jack hammers. He is a plumber, and in Los Angeles County are full old houses with clay and cast iron drains. He is loaded with work. It keeps him busy(young)..

At your age, I'd find another engine if you want to go through that, or find another car as these cars are a "dime a dozen".

About me getting your engine, in my area we have "junk yard row"(like a mile stretch) of junk yards like 20 miles from my house, and one member on Benzworld from my area said one can get a "100kMile" long block M119 engine for $500 to $600. That is still a good deal considering one does not need to go pull the engine out as they are pulled for you. I can get the contact info of the junk yard(s), yet understand freight to you may be $200 to $300..

The popularity of these engines on the west coast may be more, so with the link I have given you before. You can check the zip code near me, and find a low mile engine. Use 95655 zip code... Most of these will ship out too...

Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market

These guys have a 98 S420 M119 Engine with 68k miles in the city of Wilmington in Los Angeles, California:

Nu Way Auto Dismantling | Wilmington, CA

They have a 41k miles 97 S420 M119 engine for $1500

Welcome

These guys in New York have a 122,937 mile 99 S420 M119 engine for $700

H&S Auto Wrecking | Corona, NY

All the best,

Martin
 

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Mark,

Yea, at 80 I cannot relate, but yea take it easy if you know your limits!! At 78 my father is still breaking concrete-He has his three jack hammers. He is a plumber, and in Los Angeles County are full old houses with clay and cast iron drains. He is loaded with work. It keeps him busy(young)..

At your age, I'd find another engine if you want to go through that, or find another car as these cars are a "dime a dozen".

About me getting your engine, in my area we have "junk yard row"(like a mile stretch) of junk yards like 20 miles from my house, and one member on Benzworld from my area said one can get a "100kMile" long block M119 engine for $500 to $600. That is still a good deal considering one does not need to go pull the engine out as they are pulled for you. I can get the contact info of the junk yard(s), yet understand freight to you may be $200 to $300..

The popularity of these engines on the west coast may be more, so with the link I have given you before. You can check the zip code near me, and find a low mile engine. Use 95655 zip code... Most of these will ship out too...

Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market

These guys have a 98 S420 M119 Engine with 68k miles in the city of Wilmington in Los Angeles, California:

Nu Way Auto Dismantling | Wilmington, CA

They have a 41k miles 97 S420 M119 engine for $1500

Welcome

These guys in New York have a 122,937 mile 99 S420 M119 engine for $700

H&S Auto Wrecking | Corona, NY

All the best,

Martin
Martin,

Thought I would stop by and give you an update my progress with the Benz.

After a whole bunch of soul searching, I pulled the trigger on a 99 100K 5.0L engine I found about 170 miles north of me for $500. Drove after it and it's now installed in the car. The bad news is we don't have any oil pressure and don't know why. Since the usual suspect components have been eliminated as the problem, we are left with our best guess being a bad oil pump. I looked and looked and about the cheapest new one I could find (that I felt I could have confidence in) was a bit north of $600. Hell, that is more than I paid for the entire engine. LOL

Anyway, I've ordered a used pump at $150 and if that fixes the problem then I'll take the one that came out and have it re-manufactured. I've only found one place that might do it, which is your neighborhood (Kalifornia). I've emailed them to see whether they will do the work and at what cost but haven't heard back as of this writing. They are Egge, 11707 Saluson Ave., Santa Fe Springs, Ca., 90670. If you happen to have any other sources that would re-manufacture the old pump, I'd sure appreciate any sharing you would be willing to give. Meanwhile, the used pump is not due in til the end of this week and we just twiddling our thumbs until then. ;)

Hope this finds you well and prospering.

Best Regards

Mark
 

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you can rebuilt an oil pump yourself, usually pretty easy, first remove the pickup tube and screen, then most just have a plate attached that is held on by some bolts. remove the bolts, take the plate off, there's the gears, they usually just fall out or are easy to pry out. put new gears in, and replace the cover with a new gasket too. then usually they have a pressure relief valve, held on by one bolt- remove the bolt out comes a spring loaded check ball. change the spring, and also maybe the ball, depending on what is in there. reassemble. then just put the pickup tube/screen back on. after it's cleaned this is something you can rebuild on your kitchen table on a piece of thick cardboard, or outside on your porch or deck, or on your garage workbench.

but there's more to it than that...if the oil pump is kaput, most likely the rod and main bearings on the crankshaft are shot too, because someone probably ran that motor to death or blew it up, or ran it with low oil pressure and took out the bearings. something like that you need to put on an engine stand, and strip it to the bare block, and inspect every part.
 

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The oil pump has a chain. I would have pulled the pan on a m119-Inspected the chain and replaced the pick on it as it is made of rubber, you would have seen the chain as it is the very front. Replaced the front and rear seal, but that is me...

Martin
 

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Martin,

Thanks for all those helpful hints and information. I haven't personally seen the pump or the inside of the 100k engine sump. I'm going on what I'm told by the mechanic doing the work. I've discussed priming on the pump with him and he says that he did that but there remains no oil pressure. Since the sensor has been eliminated as a possible cause, all that remains is the oil galleys and the pump as possible culprits. He believes it's the pump and I can't contradict that. It may be. But if not the pump, that only leaves the galleys and I don't think anything short of some form of pressurized oil hose would be strong enough to dislodge any galley clog, if it exists. If I were doing the work myself and left to my own devices, I would "juryrig" some type of pressure apparatus like is used to bleed brakes from the master cylinder side and hook it up to whatever the pump would normally use to pump the oil throughout the engine. Of course, I would also pull the pump, stick it in a bucket of oil, hook up my hand drill to it and see if turning the pump with the drill caused the pump to spew out oil. Then I would know if it is or is not the pump. LOL.

But I'm not a mechanic so who am I to tell someone who has been one for 25-plus years how to do their job. Besides, I don't want to get knocked on my butt........ ROFL.

I heard back from the Egge people. They say they have never rebuilt a pump like mine but they are willing to have a look at it if I will send it to them. More to your comments, I'm sure I could rebuilt it myself but I'm more concerned about the unit still meeting MB's flow and pressure requirements after the rebuild is done. I lack the ability to do that myself and Egge has all that equipment readily at hand. It was for that reason that I reached out to them. We'll see what they say after I send them the unit, hopefully next week.

I don't yet know with certainty what the "real" problem is on this used engine. I hope I'll find out when the new pump arrives and the mechanic calls me with whatever conclusions he has reached. But I find it hard to believe that the pump is the culprit. We'll see.

Thanks for your help.

Mark
 

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if the engine is out, and the pump has no oil pressure, tell the mechanic to pull the main caps and a few rod caps, and inspect the bearings. a new oil pump on chewed up bearings will accomplish nothing, the engine won't run 5 minutes.
 

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And so the saga continues.....

The 100k engine is in, although I had to find a used oil pump to go in it as the original pump in the engine would not produce any pressure. As yet, reason unknown.

Now I've got a couple of quirks that (to me) seem to have no rhyme or reason to their appearance.

Before engine swap, idle (@ normal operating temp) was consistent at 600rpm in neutral and about 750 in drive. Now it's 1500rpm in neutral and abt 950 or so in drive. Oil pressure sees zero on gauge at idle (@normal operating temp) and about 2 on gauge at 65MPH. Before swap I had about .8 on gauge at idle and 3.0 at 65mph. And of all things the damn fuel gauge is reading a 1/4 tank low from what is actually in the tank. That gauge has always been absolutely spot on. Don't understand that at all.

I suspect the idle speed on this 100k engine is being controlled by the ECM (and it may be confused with the engine swap). So I'm thinking of disconnecting the battery for 30 mins or so to reset everything, then reconnecting it so see if any of the readings I mentioned above either change or are in some way altered. Haven't done it yet, probably tomorrow, but I figure it can't hurt anything. The oil pressure won't likely change but the idle issue might......

I've never been a fan of synthetic oil; always used Castrol 20-50. But the mech put synthetic in this engine (5-40) and I'm not sure if that is having a significant impact on the oil pressure issue. I know that in my old engine the oil pressure would go up dramatically after new oil went in and would last several thousand miles before I saw any significant change in oil pressure readings. Maybe synthetic oil works differently, I don't know. Other than a smoother running engine with a heck of a lot more "get up and go", I haven't noticed anything else as of this note. Then, again, I've only driven it for about 30 minutes or so.

And I've lost or misplaced my instructions on resetting the "wrench" on the dash. If you happen to remember how to do that or have them written down somewhere, I would sure appreciate any help. It's a 1999 s420 body but an S500 M119 motor...... I looked thru the forum for answers to that question but the instructions that I did find didn't work; don't know why they didn't but they didn't.

You have been most kind and generous with your advice and help on this forum and I want you to know that I and all of the others who interact with you are so very much appreciative for everything you do for us. I have bookmarked the S500 forum and have looked thru a bunch of posts over there. Some amusing and some, like me, sad..... ;)

With my best wishes and regards,

Mark
 

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#1, synthetic oil compared to standard mineral based oil from the ground,
is like comparing a 2020 Corvette, to the Model T Ford...
because that's just how outdated mineral oil is.
I started using synthetic oil in 1988 and never looked back,
and went from changing oil every 3000 miles, to changing it every 20,000 miles.
saves a lot of time, and money in the long run, and the engine protection is far better.
#2, if you have low oil pressure at this point, the engine bearings are probably worn, shot
and that engine is not going to run very long, even with synthetic oil.
did they check the bearings for wear ?
once the clearance is opened up, no oil will give back the pressure of a new engine.
it relies on a close crankshaft to bearing clearance, to raise the oil pressure.
one of the first signs of a badly worn engine, is low oil pressure.
unless, of course, the sending unit is defective.
honestly, and I don't say this in a nasty way,
any mechanic with half a brain would have checked all this out ahead of time,
checked bearing clearances, and oil sending unit function.
I hope your mechanic isn't using synthetic oil,
just to get your out the door and off his plate.
 

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And so the saga continues.....

The 100k engine is in, although I had to find a used oil pump to go in it as the original pump in the engine would not produce any pressure. As yet, reason unknown.

Now I've got a couple of quirks that (to me) seem to have no rhyme or reason to their appearance.

Before engine swap, idle (@ normal operating temp) was consistent at 600rpm in neutral and about 750 in drive. Now it's 1500rpm in neutral and abt 950 or so in drive. Oil pressure sees zero on gauge at idle (@normal operating temp) and about 2 on gauge at 65MPH. Before swap I had about .8 on gauge at idle and 3.0 at 65mph. And of all things the damn fuel gauge is reading a 1/4 tank low from what is actually in the tank. That gauge has always been absolutely spot on. Don't understand that at all.

I suspect the idle speed on this 100k engine is being controlled by the ECM (and it may be confused with the engine swap). So I'm thinking of disconnecting the battery for 30 mins or so to reset everything, then reconnecting it so see if any of the readings I mentioned above either change or are in some way altered. Haven't done it yet, probably tomorrow, but I figure it can't hurt anything. The oil pressure won't likely change but the idle issue might......

I've never been a fan of synthetic oil; always used Castrol 20-50. But the mech put synthetic in this engine (5-40) and I'm not sure if that is having a significant impact on the oil pressure issue. I know that in my old engine the oil pressure would go up dramatically after new oil went in and would last several thousand miles before I saw any significant change in oil pressure readings. Maybe synthetic oil works differently, I don't know. Other than a smoother running engine with a heck of a lot more "get up and go", I haven't noticed anything else as of this note. Then, again, I've only driven it for about 30 minutes or so.

And I've lost or misplaced my instructions on resetting the "wrench" on the dash. If you happen to remember how to do that or have them written down somewhere, I would sure appreciate any help. It's a 1999 s420 body but an S500 M119 motor...... I looked thru the forum for answers to that question but the instructions that I did find didn't work; don't know why they didn't but they didn't.

You have been most kind and generous with your advice and help on this forum and I want you to know that I and all of the others who interact with you are so very much appreciative for everything you do for us. I have bookmarked the S500 forum and have looked thru a bunch of posts over there. Some amusing and some, like me, sad..... ;)

With my best wishes and regards,

Mark
Did you exchange all of the ECUs when you swapped the S500 engine in for the S420? It will not ever run right on the wrong ECUs. Being a late model car you will possibly have to deal with immobilizer issues when swapping electronics.

Oil pumps don't just go bad from sitting. If it was bad when you got the engine, it was bad before the car it was in was scrapped. The lower end of the engine may be ruined.

Jon
 

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ditto yes you got it JAL. low oil pressure means motor on edge of destruction,
if it truly has zero pressure it's going to seize up solid.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thought I would close out this thread with a final note on the engine swap problems.... engine oil pressure solved with a used oil pump. Using that pump pressure came up in about 2-3 seconds after turning engine over with starter and now seeing 3.0 cold, 3.0 @ highway speeds, and 1.5 at idle using 5-40 castrol synthetic. It wasn't actually started until oil pressure confirmed. Idle speed solved by disconnecting the battery for 40 mins, reconnecting, resetting the throttle motor by turning ignition on for 3 mins, then off and then starting the engine. Idle is back to what I would expect to see (800 to 1000) and the engine runs smooth as glass with a lot more pickup than the 4.2L engine had. To 1994V12, I have never been a fan of synthetic oil since Mobil came out with theirs in the late 90s early 2000 and it cost them in excess of several hundred million replacing a/craft motors they ruined. Never used it in my own a/craft but I knew a lot of pilots who did and most of them got burned pretty damn bad. Admittedly, if the oil screws up a auto engine, you'll just coast to the side of the road; with an a/craft engine it may or may not be a survivable event.

Overall I'm pretty pleased with the swapout experience despite the perplexing events I encountered and the time it took to accomplish. Unless I wreck it, this should be the last car I'll need to acquire for, hopefully, another 300k miles.

Thanks again for all the helpful advice, suggestions, cautions and gotchas that were offered during my decision making progress. If anyone has a need for a 99 4.2liter 300k MB motor I can make you a hell of a deal. LOL......

Mark
 
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