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ML270 2000
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, I have an ml270, year 2000 diesel , it was just above half a tank and I filled it up about a week ago, the nozel at the station didn’t click and the car over filled to the point it ran out and Down the car, not much as I noticed as soon as it happened. Anyway when I got back in the car the needle didn’t move, the tank should have shown full, it still showed just above half,i have now driven 80 miles and the needle has dropped to just below half, if I keep driving will it eventually go back to normal or is something damaged, I know it is bad to overfill because of the charcole box , I presume diesels have these too? Any advice? Also I’m sure I had a metal flipper valve near the top of the filler hole, but that looks like it’s not there now too, thanks
 

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2002 Mercedes ML320, Mercedes 190E 2.3L (sold), 2001 Mercedes c320(gone)
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Hi, I have an ml270, year 2000 diesel , it was just above half a tank and I filled it up about a week ago, the nozel at the station didn’t click and the car over filled to the point it ran out and Down the car, not much as I noticed as soon as it happened. Anyway when I got back in the car the needle didn’t move, the tank should have shown full, it still showed just above half,i have now driven 80 miles and the needle has dropped to just below half, if I keep driving will it eventually go back to normal or is something damaged, I know it is bad to overfill because of the charcole box , I presume diesels have these too? Any advice? Also I’m sure I had a metal flipper valve near the top of the filler hole, but that looks like it’s not there now too, thanks
After battling this for quite a while, I noticed the culprit is actually the gauge. After countless resets of the cluster, fiddling and all... An OEM gauge will solve this problem.

Also read the errors in Communications module, instrument cluster and see what you find.

I don't know how the overfilling may affect the gauge, maybe it puts much pressure on the last (highest) portions of the resistors fine lines... and messes up the correlation as the gauge moves... If that makes any sense lol.



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w163 02 ML500 W210 97 E50Amg w202 99 C230K w124 - need more space, time to build again
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2,427 Posts
Mods,
This belongs in w163, not w164.
Please move.

Welcome mrmca800,

Please update your user cp info:
click on your icon----> click on Account Settings---->
goto Account Details----> add vehicle details---->
add your make model YEAR ----> click save
 

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2006 ML320 CDi, 3.0-litre Diesel 7G-Tronic
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276 Posts
I've had this on other cars (not MB) but they cured themselves when the fuel tank emptied.

So it's worth waiting until you've used up the fuel and refilled.

One car I had,.a 2004 Jaguar S Type, could do a diagnostic sweep to full scale of all the guages in "Engineering Test Mode". Is there anything similar in Mercs chaps?

.
 

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2002 Mercedes ML320, Mercedes 190E 2.3L (sold), 2001 Mercedes c320(gone)
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I've had this on other cars (not MB) but they cured themselves when the fuel tank emptied.

So it's worth waiting until you've used up the fuel and refilled.

One car I had,.a 2004 Jaguar S Type, could do a diagnostic sweep to full scale of all the guages in "Engineering Test Mode". Is there anything similar in Mercs chaps?

.
Hi, are you referring to resetting the gauges where it reads full and resettles? Yes, I'm quite certain this can be done with the MB star diagnosis software... I remember a test that takes all the gauges up, down and back to current level. Unfortunately, this never helped me. But this case may be very simple, especially if the OP's level sensor is up to OEM spec... It just might reset itself.

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ML270 2000
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Discussion Starter #6
Hi noetico , thanks for your reply, did yours just go off? Or was it after over filling? Is there no chance that if I let the tank run down then refill the needle might start working again? Or do you think it will be bust? Or could it work and just never show more than half a tank?
Hi khomer2, are you saying I have posted in the wrong area? I just clicked on general then post question, I’m not sure how to use the site properly.
Thanks
 

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2002 Mercedes ML320, Mercedes 190E 2.3L (sold), 2001 Mercedes c320(gone)
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Honestly that stuff never sorted out because I haven't got an original assembly, the aftermarket one didn't work well. Here's what it does. This is not in some particular order as it's here and there but here goes...

1. Needle drops to empty ...
2. Fill tank up and Amber light shows for some minutes and suddenly needle flies to full and then drops to empty in under 10 minutes.


To read again, I connect scanner and clear error for fuel level sensor on instrument cluster, it reads the instant it clears and needle starts to dip again.

Here's why I concluded without a doubt it's the gauge:

I strapped and connected an oem Ford gauge to the assembly and it actually keeps the code clear and reads but in reverse, ie upward reads empty on cluster. And even with the gauge spliced in externally and the pump disconnected, putting ignition on, the Ford sensor sends a precise reading (ie gets the needle to move in sync) and the cluster works. And if I leave that connected and clear the code, it stays clear. But the aftermarket one just gets the code thrown instantly on restarting the car.

So why didn't I leave the Ford gauge connected? I noticed over a long period I couldnt trust the reading as the float handles are of different heights etc.

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2002 Mercedes ML320, Mercedes 190E 2.3L (sold), 2001 Mercedes c320(gone)
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Thanks bud.

How did your car have an aftermarket fuel guage?

Will mrmca800's car also have an aftermarket fuel guage?

.
So electric pump died instantly one day, (I got the car used though), I changed just electric pump in the unit, all was fine. Some bad scarcity hit the country and one day I bought an abomination and put in the tank; innocently. Car misfired miserably and I dumped all, cleaned the tank, vented some anger at the evil young man... In the process of removing the electric pump to flush it, somehow the gauge wires snapped and peeled off so badly from the solder it was irrecoverable. So gauge didn't work, but car was good. Fast forward a few weeks, get an aftermarket unit, used, gauge looks ok, replace, gauge started this behaviour.

Did everything, from resetting the cluster, to resetting with the fuse at the passenger area, even mindlessly performing needless oil service resets to get all the gauges to recalibrate, reloaded cluster software.... Until the Ford gauge test I concluded there must be a software issue.

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2006 ML320 CDi, 3.0-litre Diesel 7G-Tronic
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Thanks, that's quite an adventure you had. Did you manage to get an original sender finally, and did that solve your problem?

Your experience of the wires losing the insulation is familiar, sometimes the wires harden from heat and the insulation breaks off, and sometimes the wires short together or to chassis too.

.
 

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ML270 2000
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Discussion Starter #12
Hi guys, thanks for your ongoing help and discussion. I will have to hope it doesn’t have an after market gauge. I shall let it run down and refill hoping it goes back up, on town driving how far do you think a full tank will do? I have reset the miles to keep track.

That was a good point jim, I shall get a can of diesel in the back just in case. As we are on lockdown at the moment except for food, meds or fuel we aren’t supposed to go out, am I ok using an old can which has been used for unleaded petrol,to now fill up with diesel for the car, obviously now empty?
The other question is if I do need a new gauge are they stupid money new or should I get a 2nd hand one and if 2nd hand how do you know it’s not an after market one? Also I’m not very good with fixing cars unless it’s ultra easy, I presume any garage could do this, not just an mb garage? I’m asking because I recently had mot issues with an esp bas warning light showing angle sensor, no normal garage would even look at it so in the end I had to go to an independent mb garage, they charge £70 an hour Labour, they stripped back, tested all wiring, cleaned connector, tested sensor, said all was fine,then fixed near side drag link bar , then stripped brakes and fixed parking brake, cost £800 which most was Labour, I got it back just in time for partial retest, picked it up, drove home, next day driving to mot, literally 2 minutes Away and the esp light came back on ( the garage had told me I need the tracking done as the esp might come back on) anyway back to the independent mb garage as the mot garage can’t take the esp light off. I have now missed the mot and can’t get a partial test as times ran out! So take it to another garage, it passes on esp but this time fails on near side front suspension arm and rear suspension arm! Which apparently the other mot garage had missed! Back to mb garage it’s going to be £600 , they said had they known it would have been a lot cheaper as a lot of the stripping was done when they did parking brake but will have to do it all again! Had I have known it all up front I would have just scrapped it but as I had already paid £800 and desperately needed the car I paid it, I still haven’t got tracking done as we are on lockdown now. Without the tracking done at mo the bas light stays off for about 15 miles after re calibration then comes on. The only other issues I seem to have is central locking doesn’t work, and window washer bottle has crack in it, if I fill over half way it spills out, that isn’t a problem as the washer bottle seems to hold a lot anyway
Thanks again for your help my year 2000 ml270 has done 153k miles it’s a diesel
 

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2006 ML320 CDi, 3.0-litre Diesel 7G-Tronic
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I'm sorry it's been such a saga for you bud.

@noetico please correct me if I got your symptoms or bits wrong!

I'll try to reply to most of your questions, but please ask again if I miss something, that's what we come to forums for :)

Grab a coffee, this will be a long reply! :)

I'm not sure of yours but mine (ML320CDi, 3-litre diesel) holds about 90 litres of fuel, 20 UK gallons, and I get about 25mpg average round town, so that's a range of about 500 miles. I seem to remember other MLs hold 85 litres but I don't know, I'm still finding my way round them.

Yes you can use your old can. Some people add a couple of gallons of petrol to their diesel cars deliberately to "get more power!"!

I would never do that! So a few drops of petrol in your can (4 litres?) of diesel won't do anything. Just empty it first, don't leave 3 litres of petrol in it! :)

For mechanical work, really any mechie can do it but I still had problems with many in the UK, lackadaisical, can't be bothered etc. But many of them can't do Mercs because they need diagnostic kits to reset parameters, adjust sensors, turn functions on & off, read full error codes etcetera. These cars are full of electronic controls governing everything now, since the late 1990s they've become nuts. I'm reasonably able with computers so I understand fairly easily when something is explained well. Unfortunately owner manuals don't.

So good, willing and equipped mechies are hard to find.

When I found good ones I stuck to them no matter the distance, and they were great, good advice, saving me money, and generally "looking after" me.

I used two mobile mechies who specialise in Mercs in the UK, if you're near Reading, Berks (or Bucks or Hampshire perhaps) I'll try to put you in touch with one or other of them, they might remember me.

For your ESP problem, I think it's one of the ABS sensors and they should have replaced it, they do go bad slowly because they sometimes rub on the toothed ring they are getting pulses from as the wheel turns. That ring, called a "reluctor" corroded and forms hard deposits which abrade the sensor. If so the reluctor needs cleaning to remove those deposits. Some have teeth, some have slots.

Sometimes the corrosion gets under the ring and lifts it at some points, so part of the ring itself hits the ABS sensor. This also affects the amplitude of the waveform that the ABS sensor produces, and the electronics disable the ESP because they can't determine the exact speed the wheel is turning at. When one wheel is falsely sensed to be turning faster than the others, the electronics check the position of your steering wheel to check for and correct sliding, and a faulty sensor will confuse the electronics and the ESP is turned off.

Have I caused more confusion? Sorry! :)

The bottom line is that one of the (usually rear) ABS (Antilock Braking System) sensors is faulty or is being chafed by its reluctor ring, or both. Any good mechie can physically check it and replace it.

If the reluctor ring is lifted by corrosion it needs to be replaced and that usually means the driveshaft it sits on has to be pulled out to do that.

But these days no mechie, or only a few, want to "sweat" a new reluctor ring onto the driveshaft, so they fit a new driveshaft complete. I'm talking generally, I don't yet know the ML, as I've said. But often the extra labour charges to fit only a new ring at even £50 per hour may come to more than the cost of a new driveshaft.

By the way don't think you have to use original OEM Mercedes parts, there are huge numbers of motor factors such as Motorsports Direct, Unipart, Eurocarparts and many others supplying the majority of Merc parts of good quality.

Be careful of Eurocarparts because their prices are high until they give a (almost weekly) sale discount code. Also, their online prices are less than their own branch over-the-counter prices! The way to do it is buy online using a discount code, then pick up at the branch and take to he parts to your mechie, by their prior agreement of course.

Your ML is worth keeping, things like MoT items are important to keep up with, don't feel too bad about fixing it, sadly you are having to pay for missed previous work that should have been done.

I'm sorry that the mechies you used are run-of-the-mill twits.

For the fuel guage, I'm still unsure if our friend means the guage itself in the instrument cluster had to be replaced. He had to use an after-market pump if I got that right? And that has a fuel level sensor which may not be compatible and threw his instrument cluster guage reading off?

Your fuel level sensor (in the fuel tank, maybe on the pump too, I don't yet know) may have just run over an unused part of its track and picked up some muck, causing your problem.

So I wouldn't yet worry, use the car for a couple of tankfuls before you worry.

But keep an eye on the mileage and keep your spare fuel with you for now.

What's your central locking problem?

Ask anything, that's what these forums are for.

If I've missed something please remind me, and correct me if I got our pal noetico's problem wrong?

Let us know how you get on in the next day or so.

By the way, it's best to get a code reader / scanner that reads all our codes, they are indispensable. I'm not sure yet which one to go for, but it will cost £100-£150.

I'm sure some kind fellow-member will advise which reads most/all modules in the MLs. (Hint, hint chaps!)

.
 

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2002 Mercedes ML320, Mercedes 190E 2.3L (sold), 2001 Mercedes c320(gone)
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Thanks, that's quite an adventure you had. Did you manage to get an original sender finally, and did that solve your problem?

Your experience of the wires losing the insulation is familiar, sometimes the wires harden from heat and the insulation breaks off, and sometimes the wires short together or to chassis too.

.
Sadly I haven't but plan on getting from eBay soon. Thank you...

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2002 Mercedes ML320, Mercedes 190E 2.3L (sold), 2001 Mercedes c320(gone)
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@Jim-ML320W164 I like that line, your ML is worth keeping. It is in my opinion one if the most underrated MBs but in many ways it sits in a special place...

1. Non 4matic 4 wheel drive - good for the rest of the world. Low cost
2. A reliable engine and transmission without any plagues
3. Super strong car, wheel joints and parts. This thing takes load and you don't notice it drop remarkably.

4. Notable far fewer control units than any other MB a least from C class and up, making it a reliable and easier to maintain car
5. All round simpler build than most Benz.
6. Spacious interior with a short wheel base, still very easy to turn fully where a Camry may struggle lol


This is coming from someone in Nigeria with relatively fewer Benz heads and shortage of advanced stuff. But my DIY is sufficient to keep my ML running smooth for over 3 years I've owned it. When I compare it with the c Class I owned before or numerous other MBs I have diagnosed and had experience with, the ML is a special positioned Benz, ironically it's insulted simplicity is it's longevity.

Mileage is also impressive for the weight.


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2002 Mercedes ML320, Mercedes 190E 2.3L (sold), 2001 Mercedes c320(gone)
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I'm sorry it's been such a saga for you bud.

@noetico please correct me if I got your symptoms or bits wrong!

I'll try to reply to most of your questions, but please ask again if I miss something, that's what we come to forums for :)

Grab a coffee, this will be a long reply! :)

I'm not sure of yours but mine (ML320CDi, 3-litre diesel) holds about 90 litres of fuel, 20 UK gallons, and I get about 25mpg average round town, so that's a range of about 500 miles. I seem to remember other MLs hold 85 litres but I don't know, I'm still finding my way round them.

Yes you can use your old can. Some people add a couple of gallons of petrol to their diesel cars deliberately to "get more power!"!

I would never do that! So a few drops of petrol in your can (4 litres?) of diesel won't do anything. Just empty it first, don't leave 3 litres of petrol in it! :)

For mechanical work, really any mechie can do it but I still had problems with many in the UK, lackadaisical, can't be bothered etc. But many of them can't do Mercs because they need diagnostic kits to reset parameters, adjust sensors, turn functions on & off, read full error codes etcetera. These cars are full of electronic controls governing everything now, since the late 1990s they've become nuts. I'm reasonably able with computers so I understand fairly easily when something is explained well. Unfortunately owner manuals don't.

So good, willing and equipped mechies are hard to find.

When I found good ones I stuck to them no matter the distance, and they were great, good advice, saving me money, and generally "looking after" me.

I used two mobile mechies who specialise in Mercs in the UK, if you're near Reading, Berks (or Bucks or Hampshire perhaps) I'll try to put you in touch with one or other of them, they might remember me.

For your ESP problem, I think it's one of the ABS sensors and they should have replaced it, they do go bad slowly because they sometimes rub on the toothed ring they are getting pulses from as the wheel turns. That ring, called a "reluctor" corroded and forms hard deposits which abrade the sensor. If so the reluctor needs cleaning to remove those deposits. Some have teeth, some have slots.

Sometimes the corrosion gets under the ring and lifts it at some points, so part of the ring itself hits the ABS sensor. This also affects the amplitude of the waveform that the ABS sensor produces, and the electronics disable the ESP because they can't determine the exact speed the wheel is turning at. When one wheel is falsely sensed to be turning faster than the others, the electronics check the position of your steering wheel to check for and correct sliding, and a faulty sensor will confuse the electronics and the ESP is turned off.

Have I caused more confusion? Sorry! :)

The bottom line is that one of the (usually rear) ABS (Antilock Braking System) sensors is faulty or is being chafed by its reluctor ring, or both. Any good mechie can physically check it and replace it.

If the reluctor ring is lifted by corrosion it needs to be replaced and that usually means the driveshaft it sits on has to be pulled out to do that.

But these days no mechie, or only a few, want to "sweat" a new reluctor ring onto the driveshaft, so they fit a new driveshaft complete. I'm talking generally, I don't yet know the ML, as I've said. But often the extra labour charges to fit only a new ring at even £50 per hour may come to more than the cost of a new driveshaft.

By the way don't think you have to use original OEM Mercedes parts, there are huge numbers of motor factors such as Motorsports Direct, Unipart, Eurocarparts and many others supplying the majority of Merc parts of good quality.

Be careful of Eurocarparts because their prices are high until they give a (almost weekly) sale discount code. Also, their online prices are less than their own branch over-the-counter prices! The way to do it is buy online using a discount code, then pick up at the branch and take to he parts to your mechie, by their prior agreement of course.

Your ML is worth keeping, things like MoT items are important to keep up with, don't feel too bad about fixing it, sadly you are having to pay for missed previous work that should have been done.

I'm sorry that the mechies you used are run-of-the-mill twits.

For the fuel guage, I'm still unsure if our friend means the guage itself in the instrument cluster had to be replaced. He had to use an after-market pump if I got that right? And that has a fuel level sensor which may not be compatible and threw his instrument cluster guage reading off?

Your fuel level sensor (in the fuel tank, maybe on the pump too, I don't yet know) may have just run over an unused part of its track and picked up some muck, causing your problem.

So I wouldn't yet worry, use the car for a couple of tankfuls before you worry.

But keep an eye on the mileage and keep your spare fuel with you for now.

What's your central locking problem?

Ask anything, that's what these forums are for.

If I've missed something please remind me, and correct me if I got our pal noetico's problem wrong?

Let us know how you get on in the next day or so.

By the way, it's best to get a code reader / scanner that reads all our codes, they are indispensable. I'm not sure yet which one to go for, but it will cost £100-£150.

I'm sure some kind fellow-member will advise which reads most/all modules in the MLs. (Hint, hint chaps!)

.
So to clear off my end of things...

The level sensor in the tank is what I'm referring to. But I had to periodically clear codes in the instrument cluster to get a reading.

I was experimenting and decided to test with a Ford level sensor (in the tank) and that one read well like I said but in reverse, up movement sends low level on cluster. This also cleared the code and it stayed cleared reasonably long... But that reverse resistance reading made it impractical and probably may throw errors later on refills... So I didnt leave it in to test.

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2006 ML320 CDi, 3.0-litre Diesel 7G-Tronic
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276 Posts
Thanks bud.

Just thinking, is the Ford sensor just two wires and did you try switching them?

It won't change anything if it's just a simple variable resistor (potentiometer) in the level sensor of course. Unless it's a 3-wire and only 2 are connected, in which case try the unused wire?

Or if all 3 are connected, unplug it, find the two with the greatest resistance and the 3rd is the variable to the other 2, increasing resistance to one wire while reducing it to the other when the float rises. In this case you could try swapping the two end wires, the ones with the highest resistance.

  1. But some are inductive I think, and nothing is ever as simple as we hope.
Can someone post you a replacement new correct one from the USA/UK?

.
 

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2002 Mercedes ML320, Mercedes 190E 2.3L (sold), 2001 Mercedes c320(gone)
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Thanks bud.

Just thinking, is the Ford sensor just two wires and did you try switching them?

It won't change anything if it's just a simple variable resistor (potentiometer) in the level sensor of course. Unless it's a 3-wire and only 2 are connected, in which case try the unused wire?

Or if all 3 are connected, unplug it, find the two with the greatest resistance and the 3rd is the variable to the other 2, increasing resistance to one wire while reducing it to the other when the float rises. In this case you could try swapping the two end wires, the ones with the highest resistance.

  1. But some are inductive I think, and nothing is ever as simple as we hope.
Can someone post you a replacement new correct one from the USA/UK?

.
Thanks so much, it's just 2 wires, let me get a shot quickly... Will find it now...

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2002 Mercedes ML320, Mercedes 190E 2.3L (sold), 2001 Mercedes c320(gone)
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Here's the sensor from the f150 fuel pump assembly.


I tried to put the sensor the other way so it tries to read naturally, but I also noticed one problem, due to length and possible mount position difference of the floater on the MLs assembly... at say half tank, that will be almost full on the display so at about half I had the needle at under quarter with the Amber light on.

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