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OT: ICE or EV.....when's the tipping point?

19482 Views 455 Replies 56 Participants Last post by  mrelbe
So....I'm in a position to buy a new vehicle. No real rush...and not sure if I'll go pick up again or SUV at this point.

But let's just say I buy something in 2022.

Tree huggers want everything to go 100% EV by what...2030 something?

As that time approaches more and more EVs will be on the road. Less demand for gasoline.

Price of gas goes up...making an ICE more expensive to operate. Probably fewer gas stations to boot.

And then...try selling or trading in an ICE for the inevitable EV....who will want one, at that point?

I find myself at that transition point.

What to do....what to do?
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1983 380SL, ivory/dk brown, 46k miles, dual roller timing chain. 1986 560SL, red/white, 190K mile.
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About 3 years ago OPEC was getting concerned that they had so much oil that they would never be able to sell it all - alternative sources like Solar and Wind, and competition that was profitable when oil went above $60/barrel. So what did they do ... they pumped so much oil that it drove the price way down causing many of the marginal oil producers to go bankrupt. This was right before Covid. Now with gasoline going way up they are speeding up the switch to EVs. My thinking is that OPEC will again over produce and drive down gasoline prices to slow the switch to ICE. Gonna be interesting what strategy the "big boys" will use.
 

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2000 sl320
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Keep the pig as long as possible, EVs are way off at the moment. What use to man is a car that can only do 280 mile at best. You are in a slightly colder area than me most of the year so you can only nip to a shop , come home and re charge. I'm waiting for the nitrogen cars.
 

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So....I'm in a position to buy a new vehicle. No real rush...and not sure if I'll go pick up again or SUV at this point.

But let's just say I buy something in 2022.

Tree huggers want everything to go 100% EV by what...2030 something?

As that time approaches more and more EVs will be on the road. Less demand for gasoline.

Price of gas goes up...making an ICE more expensive to operate. Probably fewer gas stations to boot.

And then...try selling or trading in an ICE for the inevitable EV....who will want one, at that point?

I find myself at that transition point.

What to do....what to do?
You raise a great question.

Frankly, I'm not impressed with the current line-up of ICE vehicles from MB. To meet evermore stringent emission regs, they've become so incredibly complex they'll surely be about worthless in 10 years, IF they could even pass emissions that long. :rolleyes: Obviously designed with the same throw-away mentality of our cell phones and computers.
My next 'new' vehicle will be sometime in the distant future, and sad to say probably an EV.

Meanwhile......I've decided to keep my family's (3) W211's running as long as I can. Especially my 2005 E320 CDI with only 72k miles that gets 37mpg highway on diesel fuel, which will undoubtedly be available to fuel truck engines for the foreseeable future. Keeping my 85 300CD W123 Diesel Coupe too. With OM617A turbo diesel, the most indestructible vehicle Mercedes ever made.

EV for town car, Diesel for long distance travel. Easily 600+ miles between fill-ups. That's my take. -YMMV
 

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72 350SL, 90 560SEC, 09 X5 diesel, 21 GMC Sierra 1500
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EV's are still in a "compliance car" stage. I think its got at least another 15-20 years to run until they start making cars that can not only drive a reasonable amount of miles before a charge is needed but also make a product that is know practically useless in around 6-8 years.

With the amount of $$ these things cost i would certainly want to have a little bit more confidence in their longevity

The infrastructure to support these is light years away too.
 

· Outstanding Contributor , Bob's Your Uncle!
83 280 SL- 5 speed-The PIG
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Keep the pig as long as possible, EVs are way off at the moment. What use to man is a car that can only do 280 mile at best. You are in a slightly colder area than me most of the year so you can only nip to a shop , come home and re charge. I'm waiting for the nitrogen cars.
The PIG is not in question....I'll keep it even if I have to buy fuel at a pharmacy like the old days. :)
 

· Outstanding Contributor , Bob's Your Uncle!
83 280 SL- 5 speed-The PIG
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Waiting for @mrelbe to chime in. He's had his Tesla for 6 (?) years and quite a few miles.

Not that I could ever afford a Tesla. :)
 

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Can the pig be converted to LPG ? Just a thought.
I've been hearing more and more about EV conversions for classics. Mega torque off the line!
But....a trunk full of batteries. Really?

Check out the new Mercedes AA Class in development using AA batteries: :p
 

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2005 SLK350, 91 300SL with Pano Top, 04 S500, 2015 Tesla Model S
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My attitude before 2014 was that here in Canada in the winter with the available EVs I would barely make it out of the driveway before needing a recharge. Then Tesla came along and changed all that. Good looking car with decent range and a proposed charging network. So in 2014 I ordered one and took delivery January 2015. Kept the S500 in the driveway just in case. So far after nearly 7 years and over 300,000 km (~186,000 miles) I have not looked back. Sold the S500 after one year of non use. Was 5 times in Florida, 6 times to West coast. When cross country travelling we charge during breakfast and lunch, so no time lost. The battery has lost about 9% of capacity in 7 years.
 

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I’ve driven my fathers model X around.

Beautifully fast car. Torque is amazing!

Battery production pollutes more than a few ice cars do in their lifetime.

Horrible, and I mean horrible for long trips. Range anxiety is a big thing.

Autopilot 2.0 is nice, but you gotta treat it like a child.


I don’t think lithium battery cars are the real future. Maybe hydrogen electric.🤷🏻‍♂️

I’d personally love to see a biodiesel with ducted diesel injection and no aftertreatment…. only in my dreams…
 

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I can imagine the 2030's becoming reminiscent of the 1970's when you'd see broken down cars on every motorway/freeway journey. Not from broken ignition, fuel or overheating problems, but with flat batteries. Until you can fully charge the batteries as quickly as I can fill my car with fuel, I'm going to leave it as long as I can.
Not only do batteries go flat, they also fail. How much does a new set of batteries cost for these EV's ?
 

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'88 560SL, '19 AMG E53 Cpe, '19 Audi e-tron 55, '53 MG TD, '35 Ford Cpe and a few more
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My current car is an Audi e-tron BEV. One of the main reasons that I got it was that it is far less complicated with fewer moving parts than current IC cars. I've done my fair share of rebuilding engines and most recently the MIL's '88 transmission and timing chain and appreciate the simplicity of no moving parts moving up and down under high heat and wear conditions.

I can't even begin to imagine tearing into the wife's mild hybrid Merc with variable cam timing, turbo and electric superchargers as well as a nine-speed transmission and variable AWD. The Audi has two electric motors with one moving part each, single speed gear drives and no clutches.

Having said that, I would be careful about range in cold weather. I get noticeably less range even in so-called California winters when the main battery needs to get heated up to operating range.
 

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'72 350SL, '85 300D, '98 E320, '19 Subaru Outback (sold '14 GLK250)
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Can the pig be converted to LPG ? Just a thought.
That doesn't help. Still a fossil fuel.

I have read about conversions to Electric in UK. One or two 107s, but may be more interesting to those with cars like Aston Martins where rebuilding engine might be impractical or super expensive. Owners can still drive to country club and look good :) Maybe feel good about saving environment too.
 

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'72 350SL, '85 300D, '98 E320, '19 Subaru Outback (sold '14 GLK250)
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Not only do batteries go flat, they also fail. How much does a new set of batteries cost for these EV's ?
Most do have an 8yr warranty. After that you are on your own and it could become expensive.
I read about a Tesla 3 battery total replacement cost of $16k. But then some of these newer Mercedes with diesel or gas engines wouldn't be cheap to rebuild/repair either. It wouldn't be hard to run up a $16k bill at the dealer.
 

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I’d personally love to see a biodiesel with ducted diesel injection and no aftertreatment…. only in my dreams…
As a diesel owner too, I had that sort thought pass my mind. Why not design new efficient diesels that can run on renewable fuels. They will of course emit CO2, but with renewable fuel, not a problem. The nitrogen oxides are the problem. I had one Bluetec, and don't want to go there again!

Isn't jet fuel something like diesel? Kerosene? I read that they are working on bio-kerosene for use in jet engines. Maybe our diesels could run on that! Better than the used MacDonalds cooking oil some use :)
 

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I enjoy driving, but I’d hate to be stressed about whether I’d make the journey in full without having to wait for several hours just to get a recharge of the batteries. God forbid if I have to have the headlights on, the heater on, and if it starts raining the wipers on. No V8 soundtrack, just the whining of the electric motor as I surely can’t have the stereo on as well ! Sorry everyone if I’m not indicating round corners...my battery is almost flat lol.
 

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As a diesel owner too, I had that sort thought pass my mind. Why not design new efficient diesels that can run on renewable fuels. They will of course emit CO2, but with renewable fuel, not a problem. The nitrogen oxides are the problem. I had one Bluetec, and don't want to go there again!

Isn't jet fuel something like diesel? Kerosene? I read that they are working on bio-kerosene for use in jet engines. Maybe our diesels could run on that! Better than the used MacDonalds cooking oil some use :)
There is a new technology called ducted diesel injection. Look it up.

It allows the diesel to burn with minimal particulate matter, which then allows the reduction of Nox by tuning.

With normal DI engines, if you tune out particulates, you get Nox, and if you tune out Nox, you get particulates. It’s been talked about quite a bit on the diesel truck forums.

Of course, this technology will never get recognition, as biodiesel hurts big oil and electric car makers. It just doesn’t have the support that gasoline and electric do here in North America.


To me, lithium battery electric cars are virtue signaling. The pollution is still there, you just don't see it in front of you…
 
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