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1983 380SL, ivory/dk brown, 46k miles, dual roller timing chain. 1986 560SL, red/white, 190K mile.
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Discussion Starter #1
Has the onset of Electric Vehicles (EV) made you rethink about purchasing an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicle?

I'll admit, I am reluctant to purchase a new ICE vehicle but would still purchase a used discounted ICE vehicle.

Some forecasters are predicting "Auto Armageddon" for the Auto Industry because of the demand for EVs.
 

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1984 380SL
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Do you do a lot of driving, Carl? I don't, I live on a small island. In six months I've driven less than 100 miles on my ratty old Jeep. In my case, the carbon savings would be minimal, and our electric comes from the mainland from a nuclear plant that is widely reviled -- Turkey Point -- for its damage to the ecosystem; its cooling system warms Biscayne Bay. There's a lot to consider.
 

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1983 380SL, ivory/dk brown, 46k miles, dual roller timing chain. 1986 560SL, red/white, 190K mile.
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6,701 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Do you do a lot of driving, Carl? I don't, I live on a small island. In six months I've driven less than 100 miles on my ratty old Jeep. In my case, the carbon savings would be minimal, and our electric comes from the mainland from a nuclear plant that is widely reviled -- Turkey Point -- for its damage to the ecosystem; its cooling system warms Biscayne Bay. There's a lot to consider.
I'm retired and do about 6,000 miles per year.
I am attracted to EV autos mainly because they are technologically different/superior/performance.
In addition, I suspect that ICE vehicles will accelerate depreciation in value and reluctant to purchase one new.
Even factoring out the "EV effect", to me the cost of a new car is not appealing but I've told
myself that my car buying philosophy is to only purchase pre-owned ICE vehicle, and only
consider a new vehicle only if it is an EV.
 

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I am confident I won’t be buying any new conventional combustion engine cars. It will be 3+ years before my daughter hits 16 and and our 130k mike Honda Ridgeline and Pilot are due for replacement. So I’m getting pretty confident my next car will be an EV. It’s really just what I’ve read in the last few months (plus seeing plenty of them around my neighborhood)... and my wife also getting a job putting us in the “if we don’t do something for the environment, who will?” camp. We are well enough off, that we can afford to take action. The same probably goes for a heck of a lot of the people on this forum too.
 

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2008 AMG CLK63 Conv., 2012 R350 4-Matic, Wife's 2015 C300 sedan
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I'm one of those people who thinks getting rid of horses and steam trains was a bad idea.

I will be a geriatric version of one of those Mad Max characters. Chasing down the last tanker of dino juice and siphoning off a few pints to keep my Hyabusa powered mobility scooter going.
 

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1983 380SL, 2000 S430, 1991 420SEL (retired) - RHD
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I've yet to see a charging station although there are a couple of Teslas running around. The owners always rocket off the traffic lights to show off. There are a lot of hybrids around though. I'll stick with the dinosaurs for now. Our carbon dioxide emissions are three fifths of bugger all of the very small percentage of man made CO2 so I don't feel guilty. "doing our bit for the planet" is a waste of time while China and India keep on polluting. By the time EV's are numerous I'll have my own electric mobility scooter.:)
 

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1988 560SL, 1969 280SL(113)
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A wise person once told me....never say never...., so I will remain mute, but being a bit of a dinasaur, if gasoline and diesel fuel remain available, I plan to be buying it for the six ICE vehicles I currently own (including my 107 and 113) for as long as I am able to drive them. My last ICE vehicle purchased new was in 2004 (Toyota diesel Pickup which I still have). My DD in USA is a 2007 model (BMW gasoline) and in Italy a 2008 model (BMW diesel). If I must update a DD I will look at gently used ICE models.

The European Union has set 2040 as the end of ICE vehicles. There is a push to come forward to 2030. Perhaps both are tall orders. Older diesels are already banned in European cities so a DD update in Italy may be on the horizon.

As I have passed the 80 mark, there is probably not an EV in my future. Given the direction things are heading, most participants here probably have one in theirs.
 

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'80 450SLC Afro RHD Ikonengold
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Has the onset of Electric Vehicles (EV) made you rethink about purchasing an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicle?

Not a bit for me as yet.
Too much distortions (e.g. tax, subsidies, little real data on batt manufacture pollution, opaque coal powerplant charging data etc) and a limited shelf life is too much of a deterrent for me. Also, I am not uncertain that ICE engine cars have a lot to advance towards GHG neutral with tech advance where batteries have almost reached peak performance in their current chemistries without reaching fossil fuel replacement value. Throw in charging of EV from Coal power plants and your EV is barely better or even worse off than many fossil fuel ICE engines.
Another method of Hybrids is yet to be expanded: series hybrids, where a small ICE is ran at one single regime (thus light, small, simple and achieving incredibly low GHG emission level) to charge the batteries on the run and provide power for the electric motor. Now this is what I call a synergy of best of both worlds. Add in a GHG neutral fuel for ICE and one can have astonishing acceleration, more than 1000km (600mi) range, absolute 0 running GHG if solar charged and if ICE fuel is from a GHG neutral source - full near GHG emission neutral car.

Much more can be done for GHG emission if AC in your home is not used, heating only the rooms in use, better heat insulation of home, use of mass transport,... and plain ole walking, bicycle and car use avoidance (go in multi destination run).
 

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I've yet to see a charging station although there are a couple of Teslas running around. The owners always rocket off the traffic lights to show off. There are a lot of hybrids around though. I'll stick with the dinosaurs for now. Our carbon dioxide emissions are three fifths of bugger all of the very small percentage of man made CO2 so I don't feel guilty. "doing our bit for the planet" is a waste of time while China and India keep on polluting. By the time EV's are numerous I'll have my own electric mobility scooter.:)
If the Chinese and Indians created as much CO2 omissions per person as the United States does per person, the world would be far worse as far as carbon emissions go.


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1983 380SL, ivory/dk brown, 46k miles, dual roller timing chain. 1986 560SL, red/white, 190K mile.
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Discussion Starter #11
To me EVs are interesting new technology. Never drove one or even ridden in an EV, but from what I read an EV is a totally different driving experience. In addition, EVs have far fewer parts, less maintenance, and once major manufactuers start producing their EV models the price should come down also driving down the resale value of ICE vehicles. Most likely I'll hang on to my ICE vehicles to get the most use out of them but at some point its likely to make sense to do the switch economically ... but I'll probably make that switch much sooner for my daily driver.
 

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Golf Carts!, Look at how inefficient electrical transmission lines are, the electrical plant also an issue, the percent of energy waste to get the battery charged is fairly high. there not really that eco friendly. Burn gas make power, hard to beat, nuclear is an option really can be very safe. think about the satellites launched in the 70's are just now leaving the solar system and the nuclear reactors in them are still making power! the ICE will be around for awhile.
 

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1987 560SL (L.Tonk) [92,700 miles]
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Transmission losses are only about 6% of total energy, but most power plants only extract about 35% of available energy to begin with, which is about on par with the most efficient auto engines. I imagine a car with similar performance characteristics as a Tesla would be much lower, but there are additional losses in charging, as you say, plus the environmental impact of large-scale Lithium mining. My worry is longevity of the battery packs (which currently cost about $8k to replace) and charger availability in remote areas and during peak travel times. I would definitely buy an EV for a get-around-town car but would not take it anywhere in northern Ontario, especially in winter.
 

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1985 280SL (Euro)
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Transmission losses are only about 6% of total energy, but most power plants only extract about 35% of available energy to begin with, which is about on par with the most efficient auto engines. I imagine a car with similar performance characteristics as a Tesla would be much lower, but there are additional losses in charging, as you say, plus the environmental impact of large-scale Lithium mining. My worry is longevity of the battery packs (which currently cost about $8k to replace) and charger availability in remote areas and during peak travel times. I would definitely buy an EV for a get-around-town car but would not take it anywhere in northern Ontario, especially in winter.
Wholeheartedly agree regarding the cost of replacement batteries and that is evidently estimated as a 6 year proposition. My daily driver is a 2003 G35 and I haven't spent $8,000 on it in maintenance yet. It's now a toss up as to whether I bite the dust before my car as it has everything I need and I see absolutely no reason to trade.Have to wonder why everyone is so focused on the performance of EV's. With urban traffic as dense as it is and highway speeds limited with fines for speeding growing ever more exorbitant, speed is sadly going out of style. As a kid growing up in the UK I recall the milk being delivered daily in a weird open van made by Brush Electric and the only noise it made was a low whine together with the rattling of the milk bottles. It handled the hills around us just fine though and cleaved the wind at an heart stopping 10 mph.
 

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This article started my wheels spinning. Small sample set, and possibly a suspect source.




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having recently added solar to our home and seeing a surplus of production the last few months of summer, we've been contemplating a used leaf for my wife's commute (30-40 miles round trip). in my area, they've come down to $4-5k for those with batteries that still have enough range.

couple things working against wanting to make that purchase just yet. our solar production's gone way down now that cloudy rainy weather has returned. at the end of the year these surpluses and deficits are supposed to be squared up with the utility. we need to see how close our production / use comes to balancing...

another thing is the public utilities commission's given a sweetheart deal to the utility, in that with net metering, we sell our surplus power during the day for much less that we pay at night. charging an electric commuter car would mostly occur at this higher rate.

now i'm sure the cost of electricity for my wife's commute would be less that we're spending on gas regardless but, with all the other limits on the current technology (mostly range), it's not yet a tempting purchase for a vehicle with limited use.

oh, one more comment on going solar... it's like paying up front ($10k in our case) for electricity. i'm confident we'll do better in the long run but, if not for the sorry state of pg&e (our local utility), it would have been less attractive.
 

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1983 380SL, ivory/dk brown, 46k miles, dual roller timing chain. 1986 560SL, red/white, 190K mile.
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Discussion Starter #17
The Technology with ICE vehicles has matured.
The Technology with EVs is continuing improvements.


This is definitely "disruptive" to the Auto Market.
 

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It comes down to this- If you want one, get one. We all contort justification to suit our needs. Are they really environmentally friendly, more economical, convenient to use? Probably not, debatable at best. The US govt $7k write off that the rest of us pay for really irritates me, but if you need to scratch that itch, your fellow citizens will be "happy" to kick in that $7,000.
 

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-----'83 280 SL----- 5 speed....The PIG
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It comes down to this- If you want one, get one. We all contort justification to suit our needs. Are they really environmentally friendly, more economical, convenient to use? Probably not, debatable at best. The US govt $7k write off that the rest of us pay for really irritates me, but if you need to scratch that itch, your fellow citizens will be "happy" to kick in that $7,000.
And this I agree with.
Mrelbe has a Tesla......and not because he's trying to save the world. He loves the technology and the camaraderie with other Tesla owners.
I don't think that EVs are that much more environmentally friendly.....however the lobbyists are winning.
I will be installing a 50A 220V circuit into my new garage...it will run my welder, lift and perhaps, one day...if mandated....charge my car.
 

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Current: 2014 red C300 4MATIC; former: 2002 Magma red C230 Kompressor sportscoupe
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Has the onset of Electric Vehicles (EV) made you rethink about purchasing an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicle?

I'll admit, I am reluctant to purchase a new ICE vehicle but would still purchase a used discounted ICE vehicle.

Some forecasters are predicting "Auto Armageddon" for the Auto Industry because of the demand for EVs.
No. I do not have a garage, so there would be no way to recharge at home. There aren't any local public charging options either.
 
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