Let me start by saying, these forums have been so valuable to me over the past few years as a lurker as I mulled over a possible MB purchase. I have owned a lot of old European cars over the years (cheap ones, anyway), and I finally decided to treat myself to a convertible. I had always liked R107s but they are getting kind of expensive. So, I decided on an R129 and scratched the Mercedes itch. Unfortunately, as a guy on BringaTrailer said recently, I scratched the itch and nicked an artery. There's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes-Benz, I suppose. Except maybe a cheap Ferrari.
My tale of woe is thus. I took a chance and bought a 1994 SL320. I like sixes, and I really like this one. It's got 110k on it and is beautiful (it's that Brilliant Emerald/Parchment with a black top). Cosmetically, it's very nice. It runs well and drives really well--it handles better than some much newer cars. So, what's the problem?
Well, I had some nagging problems right after I bought it. The SRS light was on, and the CEL was on, as well (conveniently after I purchased, haha). I took it to a mechanic in Kensington, MD (I am not going to name names, but maybe I should). This mechanic got two bites at the apple. I had them attempt to diagnose the CEL and fix the SRS light. SRS was diagnosed to be the module itself. I finally had to source a used one for them myself. The CEL they said was a broken stop light ground (which also explained why the CHMSL wasn't working). So, they fixed that. I also had them try to fix some other things--my sunglass compartment won't close. They said it was irreparable but they could glue it shut (this began to be a refrain on many things). My power headrest won't go up and down (neither does the belt)--irreparable. I also had a clicking right window regulator and the window wouldn't go quite all the way down (like just 1/4 in shy). This did not affect top operation which worked like a charm hundreds of times. I had also looked over the car when I was pre-purchase and no fluid in spare wheel well, no leaks anywhere that I can see. Kensington mechanic replaces window regulator.
30 minutes after picking up car first time, CEL illuminates again. Window regulator also is clicking again but now goes down all the way. They also broke two pieces of interior plastic and just left them that way. I complained and they agreed to make it right.
Second time, I come back, there's broken window trim clips, but I am over complaining. I could write novels about these guys. Their MO is to call you and ask what array of bad and improper fixes you'd like to try, like a) we could glue it, b) we could reset the computer and hope that does it, or c) we could replace some parts, but we're not sure that would do it, either. Anyway, before leaving, they told me the regulator went bad because the motor was improperly mounted, so they replaced the regulator and. . .glued the motor. WHO DOES THIS? Obviously, I didn't approve them doing this. I shook my head and considered myself educated and lucky that they hadn't broken more. I drive away and CEL illuminates.By the way, I'm not a complete idiot (maybe). This shop has hundreds of positive reviews online and is an MB specialist. I think they're good at fixing simple problems on simple MBs, if I had to guess.
I figured at this point, I had a couple of nagging issues, but the car was fully functional, still drove great, and I'll figure out the fixes somewhere else. All was well until one day, I'm putting the top down, and the mechanism works like normal. I wait for the red light to extinguish, and it starts rolling up the windows. I usually let it just complete this cycle although the manual says it's not necessary once the red light is out, but today I decide to keep the windows down, so I release the top switch just as it's beginning to roll them up. I roll down the driveway and then attempt to roll them up manually. Nope. Down? Nope. Nothing. Now I'm panicked. Right now, I have the top down and for the moment, the car isn't garaged. So, I turn back around and start playing with it. Restarts do nothing. I pull the battery and that seems to sort of reset things, but barely and only temporarily. After a number of battery disconnects, I manage to get the windows up, one at a time. At this point, I manage to get the top to go through its cycle and get it back up. Just for kicks, I try to manually crack a window. Nope. It's clearly messed up.
So, now I have a bigger issue on top of a bunch of small nagging ones. But at least the top is up and latched.
So, enter mechanic 2. I pick another MB specialist in Carroll County, MD. They are a much better-run operation and their master tech worked at a dealership at the time these cars were new. He got to the bottom of some of the issues, but also said the car had a bunch of things that didn't occur to me at all. I guess I believe them, but the list was scary.
1. He says somehow the car is on its original soy harnesses, and they are disintegrating. They say all they can do is try to source a newer, better (but still soy) harness. This shop is absolutely, positively against customer provided parts, even in cases where new ones aren't available. If they're willing to put in a used one that is going to disintegrate, why wouldn't they put in one that is used that is an actual replacement harness that won't disintegrate? Who am I to argue? I gambled on this when I bought this car; I figured what car could still be running on its original harnesses? And clearly, this car has been cared for.
2. They say the passenger door where I had the regulator problem is a mess and needs a new motor assembly and the regulator. This will also need all the appropriate fasteners that are missing and some cleanup. I am not surprised. They quote me around $1500 for this. Also not surprised. Fine.
3. Then they get to the top. They tell me there are three problems, and this I find hard to believe, but they swear they tested everything multiple times because of the money involved. I paid $700 in diagnostics for them to confirm this. They say I have:
a. a bad sensor in the door that is keeping the mechanism from working (okay, makes sense)
b. I have a bad top control module, as well (which makes less sense and seems odd as a coincidence that two things catastrophically failed at the same time)
c. They say two hydraulic cylinders are leaking badly.
4. Fixing some other minor things will also be included in the job.
Forgive me for being so long-winded. Here's where we get to the crux of the matter. I ask for the quote. The guy starts breaking it down and is avoiding the bottom line number, so I know this is a bad sign. We get to the top. He says they want to replace the sensor, replace the module, and replace the two cylinders. I ask, if these two are indeed going bad, why not replace all 12? He agrees, but that's not how they're quoting it. This is a bad sign. So, the top repairs alone are going to be around $6,000. They say the module is $3,500. The cylinders will be $1,200. Now I'm getting wary.
I google the top control module. It's available at a dealer in Scottsdale for $1,500. The guy on the phone hems and haws and said they have to order direct from their MB supplier or some such thing, and goes on to talk about warranty, and they have to back it, and so on and so forth. I ask hey, if it's from a dealer in an MB box, can you explain the difference to me and why yours is so much more than theirs? He makes an oblique reference to parts markup being necessary to the business. I agree with him that of course his shop should make markup on parts, but over 100% markup? I noted that seems excessive, if not insulting. He says he'll see what he can do. I also ask if he would consider having Top Hydraulics drop ship a set of rebuilt cylinders for about the same price as they are charging for two new ones. They say they use Top Hydraulics. So, I'm guessing this is another 100% markup issue.
They say they'll get back to me.Apparently after considering my argument, he says I can have the top control module for "list price" which is $2,200 (so I am guessing this is only $700 profit for them on the part). They won't work with me on the top cylinders.
Total bottom line? $13,000. This is twice what I paid for the car. I already have about $3k in it. But that's not the issue.
The issue is the parts gouging. If they had come in around $7-8k, I probably would have said do it. I don't have a problem with their high labor rates. I'm not being cheap. I'm trying not to get ripped off. BUT--I need quality work. They apparently were padding things by $4k or so because. . .they can. The desk guy even alluded to this when he mentioned he didn't understand how much people spend on these cars, either, but. . .they do. I guess they have a lot of customers with deep pockets who really don't care.
So, is this the only way it is in the MB community? I really don't have it in me to wrench on this car myself. It's not something I enjoy, and right now, it's just not in the cards. Are my only choices reasonably priced incompetence or exorbitantly overpriced competence?
At this point, I would be willing to drive or even truck it somewhere within 200 miles if someone knows a mechanic who is trustworthy and reasonable. Any help? If not, I'll probably cut loose of this car while I can (at quite a loss, I am sure--the new owner would deserve full disclosure). Thanks for any leads. . .
David
My tale of woe is thus. I took a chance and bought a 1994 SL320. I like sixes, and I really like this one. It's got 110k on it and is beautiful (it's that Brilliant Emerald/Parchment with a black top). Cosmetically, it's very nice. It runs well and drives really well--it handles better than some much newer cars. So, what's the problem?
Well, I had some nagging problems right after I bought it. The SRS light was on, and the CEL was on, as well (conveniently after I purchased, haha). I took it to a mechanic in Kensington, MD (I am not going to name names, but maybe I should). This mechanic got two bites at the apple. I had them attempt to diagnose the CEL and fix the SRS light. SRS was diagnosed to be the module itself. I finally had to source a used one for them myself. The CEL they said was a broken stop light ground (which also explained why the CHMSL wasn't working). So, they fixed that. I also had them try to fix some other things--my sunglass compartment won't close. They said it was irreparable but they could glue it shut (this began to be a refrain on many things). My power headrest won't go up and down (neither does the belt)--irreparable. I also had a clicking right window regulator and the window wouldn't go quite all the way down (like just 1/4 in shy). This did not affect top operation which worked like a charm hundreds of times. I had also looked over the car when I was pre-purchase and no fluid in spare wheel well, no leaks anywhere that I can see. Kensington mechanic replaces window regulator.
30 minutes after picking up car first time, CEL illuminates again. Window regulator also is clicking again but now goes down all the way. They also broke two pieces of interior plastic and just left them that way. I complained and they agreed to make it right.
Second time, I come back, there's broken window trim clips, but I am over complaining. I could write novels about these guys. Their MO is to call you and ask what array of bad and improper fixes you'd like to try, like a) we could glue it, b) we could reset the computer and hope that does it, or c) we could replace some parts, but we're not sure that would do it, either. Anyway, before leaving, they told me the regulator went bad because the motor was improperly mounted, so they replaced the regulator and. . .glued the motor. WHO DOES THIS? Obviously, I didn't approve them doing this. I shook my head and considered myself educated and lucky that they hadn't broken more. I drive away and CEL illuminates.By the way, I'm not a complete idiot (maybe). This shop has hundreds of positive reviews online and is an MB specialist. I think they're good at fixing simple problems on simple MBs, if I had to guess.
I figured at this point, I had a couple of nagging issues, but the car was fully functional, still drove great, and I'll figure out the fixes somewhere else. All was well until one day, I'm putting the top down, and the mechanism works like normal. I wait for the red light to extinguish, and it starts rolling up the windows. I usually let it just complete this cycle although the manual says it's not necessary once the red light is out, but today I decide to keep the windows down, so I release the top switch just as it's beginning to roll them up. I roll down the driveway and then attempt to roll them up manually. Nope. Down? Nope. Nothing. Now I'm panicked. Right now, I have the top down and for the moment, the car isn't garaged. So, I turn back around and start playing with it. Restarts do nothing. I pull the battery and that seems to sort of reset things, but barely and only temporarily. After a number of battery disconnects, I manage to get the windows up, one at a time. At this point, I manage to get the top to go through its cycle and get it back up. Just for kicks, I try to manually crack a window. Nope. It's clearly messed up.
So, now I have a bigger issue on top of a bunch of small nagging ones. But at least the top is up and latched.
So, enter mechanic 2. I pick another MB specialist in Carroll County, MD. They are a much better-run operation and their master tech worked at a dealership at the time these cars were new. He got to the bottom of some of the issues, but also said the car had a bunch of things that didn't occur to me at all. I guess I believe them, but the list was scary.
1. He says somehow the car is on its original soy harnesses, and they are disintegrating. They say all they can do is try to source a newer, better (but still soy) harness. This shop is absolutely, positively against customer provided parts, even in cases where new ones aren't available. If they're willing to put in a used one that is going to disintegrate, why wouldn't they put in one that is used that is an actual replacement harness that won't disintegrate? Who am I to argue? I gambled on this when I bought this car; I figured what car could still be running on its original harnesses? And clearly, this car has been cared for.
2. They say the passenger door where I had the regulator problem is a mess and needs a new motor assembly and the regulator. This will also need all the appropriate fasteners that are missing and some cleanup. I am not surprised. They quote me around $1500 for this. Also not surprised. Fine.
3. Then they get to the top. They tell me there are three problems, and this I find hard to believe, but they swear they tested everything multiple times because of the money involved. I paid $700 in diagnostics for them to confirm this. They say I have:
a. a bad sensor in the door that is keeping the mechanism from working (okay, makes sense)
b. I have a bad top control module, as well (which makes less sense and seems odd as a coincidence that two things catastrophically failed at the same time)
c. They say two hydraulic cylinders are leaking badly.
4. Fixing some other minor things will also be included in the job.
Forgive me for being so long-winded. Here's where we get to the crux of the matter. I ask for the quote. The guy starts breaking it down and is avoiding the bottom line number, so I know this is a bad sign. We get to the top. He says they want to replace the sensor, replace the module, and replace the two cylinders. I ask, if these two are indeed going bad, why not replace all 12? He agrees, but that's not how they're quoting it. This is a bad sign. So, the top repairs alone are going to be around $6,000. They say the module is $3,500. The cylinders will be $1,200. Now I'm getting wary.
I google the top control module. It's available at a dealer in Scottsdale for $1,500. The guy on the phone hems and haws and said they have to order direct from their MB supplier or some such thing, and goes on to talk about warranty, and they have to back it, and so on and so forth. I ask hey, if it's from a dealer in an MB box, can you explain the difference to me and why yours is so much more than theirs? He makes an oblique reference to parts markup being necessary to the business. I agree with him that of course his shop should make markup on parts, but over 100% markup? I noted that seems excessive, if not insulting. He says he'll see what he can do. I also ask if he would consider having Top Hydraulics drop ship a set of rebuilt cylinders for about the same price as they are charging for two new ones. They say they use Top Hydraulics. So, I'm guessing this is another 100% markup issue.
They say they'll get back to me.Apparently after considering my argument, he says I can have the top control module for "list price" which is $2,200 (so I am guessing this is only $700 profit for them on the part). They won't work with me on the top cylinders.
Total bottom line? $13,000. This is twice what I paid for the car. I already have about $3k in it. But that's not the issue.
The issue is the parts gouging. If they had come in around $7-8k, I probably would have said do it. I don't have a problem with their high labor rates. I'm not being cheap. I'm trying not to get ripped off. BUT--I need quality work. They apparently were padding things by $4k or so because. . .they can. The desk guy even alluded to this when he mentioned he didn't understand how much people spend on these cars, either, but. . .they do. I guess they have a lot of customers with deep pockets who really don't care.
So, is this the only way it is in the MB community? I really don't have it in me to wrench on this car myself. It's not something I enjoy, and right now, it's just not in the cards. Are my only choices reasonably priced incompetence or exorbitantly overpriced competence?
At this point, I would be willing to drive or even truck it somewhere within 200 miles if someone knows a mechanic who is trustworthy and reasonable. Any help? If not, I'll probably cut loose of this car while I can (at quite a loss, I am sure--the new owner would deserve full disclosure). Thanks for any leads. . .
David
