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91 500SL 37k,90 300SE sold, 91 300E sold , 92 300E137k ,02 Kia Sedona ,I know..... its a Mini van.
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
143K mile 1992 300E M103 my son says he hears a noise on start up then goes away once warmed up, so just went out and did a cold start and sure enough a loud lifter clicking sound from engine, after about 30 seconds or less its almost gone, listening to warmed up engine I can hear ticking from what I believe is about middle of head, when I have more time will pin it down with a long screwdriver to my ear, should the cups be replaced also or use old one? any tips or tricks on lifter replacement would be appreciated.
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W124 Moderator
86 190E 2.3L 16V, 2 95 320TE's, 02 S500
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I would check the bushings on the belt tensioner dampening shock first. IIRC, the upper bushing is the culprit. Place the butt end of a hammer handel or similar on the top of the shock and lean down on it when you hear the ticking. If the tic subsides..there ya go.

Jayare

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1989 W124 260E
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Or might need new hydraulic compensators its an easy job to replace them . But try a tin of Liqui Moli additive for hydraulic compensators first . If it cure is for a little time, and comes back it will be a replacement time .. no 58 is the part Font Auto part Line art Drawing Pattern
 

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I don't recall from previous threads so please excuse the question; which oil are you using?
 

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91 500SL 37k,90 300SE sold, 91 300E sold , 92 300E137k ,02 Kia Sedona ,I know..... its a Mini van.
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I would check the bushings on the belt tensioner dampening shock first. IIRC, the upper bushing is the culprit. Place the butt end of a hammer handel or similar on the top of the shock and lean down on it when you hear the ticking. If the tic subsides..there ya go.

Jayare

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk
I'll test it thanks.
 

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91 500SL 37k,90 300SE sold, 91 300E sold , 92 300E137k ,02 Kia Sedona ,I know..... its a Mini van.
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I don't recall from previous threads so please excuse the question; which oil are you using?
Its 10-40, been using it for 10 years on this car without noisy issues like this, I'm in SoCal so temps are on the warm side here.
did filter and oil change 3 months ago, will check level. maybe its low?, my driveway is on a slope so hard to get accurate check, will drop it into neutral and roll it out in the street which is level.
You know when I did the complete cooling system rehab last month thought I heard slight ticking on startup but went away.
Puzzle's me why a lifter goes bad ?, son say's if its lifter replace all of them tough customer!
 

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Its 10-40, been using it for 10 years on this car without noisy issues like this, I'm in SoCal so temps are on the warm side here.
did filter and oil change 3 months ago, will check level. maybe its low?, my driveway is on a slope so hard to get accurate check, will drop it into neutral and roll it out in the street which is level.
You know when I did the complete cooling system rehab last month thought I heard slight ticking on startup but went away.
Puzzle's me why a lifter goes bad ?, son say's if its lifter replace all of them tough customer!
My 89 300CE with 239K miles was doing same thing. Tic tic tic for a minute after start-up, especially if car sat unused a few days.
I switched oil to Mobil 1 'High Mileage' 10W-30 and lifter noise stopped much quicker, and completely disappeared after 2nd oil change (every 3-4K miles). It's about getting oil to circulate faster to refill the lifters. Also, keeping the oil topped up to the high mark on dipstick helped too. (don't overfill)
I had a few oil leaks and the Mobil 1 High Mileage oil has an additive (gasket swell) that helps cure that too. -YMMV
 

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91 500SL 37k,90 300SE sold, 91 300E sold , 92 300E137k ,02 Kia Sedona ,I know..... its a Mini van.
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks but don't think that will solve this issue, what I mean is for last 10 years engine was quite as a mouse using the 10-40, so there's something else going on here.
Did a cold start this morning and its loud as heck for 10 seconds, then quite, but has intermittent loud ticking noise, tested tensioner shock and its good and tight, using the screwdriver to my ear I can faintly hear the ticking at valve cover/head , hard to find exact spot because its intermittent, oil pressure is right on once warmed, so might as well remove valve cover and inspect things, ideally I guess wait for engine to be cold and see if I can feel any movement in the rockers.
I did a video and need to upload it and post it here.
 

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Thanks but don't think that will solve this issue, what I mean is for last 10 years engine was quite as a mouse using the 10-40, so there's something else going on here.
Did a cold start this morning and its loud as heck for 10 seconds, then quite, but has intermittent loud ticking noise, tested tensioner shock and its good and tight, using the screwdriver to my ear I can faintly hear the ticking at valve cover/head , hard to find exact spot because its intermittent, oil pressure is right on once warmed, so might as well remove valve cover and inspect things, ideally I guess wait for engine to be cold and see if I can feel any movement in the rockers.
I did a video and need to upload it and post it here.
Well, the engine is 10 years older and has XXXXX more miles on it.
 

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91 500SL 37k,90 300SE sold, 91 300E sold , 92 300E137k ,02 Kia Sedona ,I know..... its a Mini van.
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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
My KIA Sedona has a funky lifter also at 98k, so checked out the camshaft all lobes are smooth except rear exhaust has a little wear, not horrible, reviewing posts across the net and plenty of W124’s with same issue, resolved with lifter replacement, so that’s what I’m going to do, here’s my video.
 

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Before spending your time and money on a full lifter set replacement, try the ATF engine oil flush as I have described many times.

Could save your back and your wallet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'm getting kinda burnt out working on this car, not my money, just my time, probably just one lifter leaking down ,with a old car I'm just replacing with new parts, I'm sure if I brought it to a mechanic he would do the same .
 

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Lowesguy you have 3 bad hydraulic lifters so far may be more . They bleed out , some say to just remove and refill them with oil .But i would replace them, at this stage in your video your are half way there now ... Please let us know how things go/ And if you remove them mind the small round shim in case it falls out ,,,fill the holes in the hread around each one so if it falls it will be easy to retrieve ..I have had the parts to replace my hydraulic compensators over a year , i will get to do them i the spring .
 

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I agree with plinker17722 on the number of lifters that are ticking on start up. Not sure how warm the engine was at the time of the video but it sure quieted down much sooner than I had anticipated. If you decide to change them, do them all.
 

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I'm also curious why this engine is exhibiting these issues with only 142K miles. They don't like short runs, and thrive on long trips where the oil gets hot enough to burn off condensation.

If for some reason oil supply is restricted or clogged causing the lifters to starve for oil, will new lifters solve the problem, or just kick the can down the road?

I still don't get why you wouldn't try sbaert's suggested motor flush, or my suggested change to a full-syn High-Mileage oil formulated specifically for older engines.

Once you start rebuilding your top-end, you might as well do head gasket, valve guides, timing chain, guides, tensioner, seals, etc., etc. Is that all something you want to do now anyway??

Hey, it's Your money and Your time. :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I already did all that stuff, HG 2020, ordered the parts, should be here in 4-5 days, Just checked out the lifters and found 4 loose ones, not super loose but loose, its my son's car and he drives it to work about 7 miles away, so I don't know how long he's driven the car with this issue? when he told me I asked how long has this issue been there? he said 2 weeks, last 2 months spent time and $600 rebuilding cooling system, at that time I reset odometer to zero, now at 162 miles, I now remember once I put it back together and fired it up I heard those lifters for 2 seconds and went away, now they are noisy as heck, yesterday when engine was a little warmed up as you see in picture ,the lifters were not as loose as today on a cold engine, so that tells me lifters are leaking down, as far as oil starvation ? so if oil pump was bad why would I have great oil pressure? is there something else after oil pump I should look at? thinking more about oil viscosity , If I still hear any noise after replacement will switch to high mileage lower viscosity oil.
This car has been well taken care by me for the last 10 years, oil change every 3K miles, etc.
Reason I'm chicken about tranny fluid cleanse is I had a car once and did that and all my crank bearing failed, I guess all the sludge was holding stuff together, one mechanic told me not to do that to a old engine.
 

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I already did all that stuff, HG 2020, ordered the parts, should be here in 4-5 days, Just checked out the lifters and found 4 loose ones, not super loose but loose, its my son's car and he drives it to work about 7 miles away, so I don't know how long he's driven the car with this issue? when he told me I asked how long has this issue been there? he said 2 weeks, last 2 months spent time and $600 rebuilding cooling system, at that time I reset odometer to zero, now at 162 miles, I now remember once I put it back together and fired it up I heard those lifters for 2 seconds and went away, now they are noisy as heck, yesterday when engine was a little warmed up as you see in picture ,the lifters were not as loose as today on a cold engine, so that tells me lifters are leaking down, as far as oil starvation ? so if oil pump was bad why would I have great oil pressure? is there something else after oil pump I should look at? thinking more about oil viscosity , If I still hear any noise after replacement will switch to high mileage lower viscosity oil.
This car has been well taken care by me for the last 10 years, oil change every 3K miles, etc.
Reason I'm chicken about tranny fluid cleanse is I had a car once and did that and all my crank bearing failed, I guess all the sludge was holding stuff together, one mechanic told me not to do that to a old engine.
Nothing to do with oil pressure, (until oil pump gets clogged) I've seen some motors with a white-ish gunk accumulating from too many short trips. Like cholesterol that plugs arteries; it doesn't bode well for engine top ends. Not saying that's your issue, but doesn't sound like your Son drives any long distances, and issues seem to have occurred recently.
After you do your work, might be time for that Mobil One oil change, and a good long fast drive. 😁
 

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If you look at how an M103 lifter is constructed, its very simple. An outer component with a bore, a piston, and a retainer. The lifter could be losing oil after shut down and pumping up once oil pressure is restored on start up. If that is the case just change them. I've seen relatively low mileage lifters do some strange things so low mileage or high, better to get rid of them when you start hearing the tell-tale chatter on start up. IIRC its easy to replace them. Just get each cylinder to TDC and replace them both at the same time and move on to the next cylinder. Soak the new ones in warm light weight oil over night before installing them.
 

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Manual shows you how to load them up with oil before you install them by pushing down on the ball bearing with a key and fill manualy with oil. ,,soaking alone will not get the oil inside .I still want to know how oil is replenished inside there because there are no holes in the eliment bottom,, its a closed item once fitted in the rocker arm . Or is it only Font Line Parallel Elbow Illustration
good till oil is lost from the eliment ? Come on guys sort this one out so i can put it to bed.
 
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