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Registered
1987 560sec
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297 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
hi guys,
i've noticed how much you guys love the new sl, and i do too, but it is beyond me why mercedes is going down in quality. and the SL is following suit too. i know so because we go throught about 15 cars a year, mercedes only, we deal with some and keep some. and i can tell you, other than the GREAT engineering on these new cars, there isn't anything spectacular about them. oh, and in the last 3 or 4 years mercedes cars have had an unheard of number of bugs and mistakes in putting together their cars, look at the s anc c class forums and you'll know what i mean. and starting from the s or c class whichever you decide to choose, mercedes has abandoned their tradition. especially with their instrument cluster font, centeral window buttons and such. which really makes me consider other brands. dare i say look at nissan? in the last year, they have churned out some of the best models by far. and for prices unheard of before. which would you consider? a loaded 35k c240 or a I35 or the new G35? both look different, and the nissan performs much better.

i've been a mercedes loyalist for all my life, and so has my family. and what is going on now really dissapoints.

on a better note, here is one of the last true mercedes classics, the R129 SL.

http://www.benzworld.org/gallery/showlink.asp?CatID=4192&parentID=26&subname=my_beauty&parentname=R129_SL_Class

considered trading it for the silver arrow when it came, but decided not to.

SLR on the way soon, and i hope they improve.

thanks for letting me vent. and no flames please. [8)]
 

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S430,190E 2.6,SL500
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194 Posts
Sadly, the perfect Mercedes-Benz is a thing of the past due to changing times. I have noti...

Sadly, the perfect Mercedes-Benz is a thing of the past due to changing times. I have noticed a difference in the build quality and the quality of materials in my new S430 compared to my R129 SL or 190E. The entry-level 190 of the 80's has a far better build quality than that of the new S-Class. I took a look at the new SL in my dealer's showroom and noticed a big gap in the front door. Unbelieveable, especially for an SL.
 

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Registered
1987 560sec
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297 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
well, finally someone agrees, i really doubt that this model would last 12 or even 10 ye...

well, finally someone agrees, i really doubt that this model would last 12 or even 10 years like the R129, especially in these times, but more importantly, i doubt that the current cars being made now would last half as long as the previous models. i would give them about 7 years max maybe, after that i'm pretty sure the interior will show age much more faster due to cheaper meterials than before. [V]
 

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SL500
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56 Posts
Another reason why these cars will be dated...

I live in Silicon Valley... and love technology. The problem is that is becomes dated very fast. Think about what a PC looked like 7 years ago... what software it was running, and what the monitor looked like. Now imagine how today's high tech cars will look from that perpective in 7 years. After 7 years... the CRT display will probably be permanently etched with whatever the default screen is. Imagine how much it's going to cost to fix that old electronic technology in 7 years! Cars are alot like watches to me... and I'd prefer to have a Rolex, than some high-tech electronic version!
 

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S430,190E 2.6,SL500
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194 Posts
It seems that automotive technology is changing a lot more rapidly than before. In my view...

It seems that automotive technology is changing a lot more rapidly than before. In my view, the Mercedes-Benzes of the late 80's still look fairly modern today. But 7 years from, the Mercedes-Benzes of today will look very outdated. But one thing that Mercedes-Benz can improve on is the quality of the car. Plastics, wood, interior build quality. But remember- being Mercedes-Benz means a lot of high tech systems and gadgets. And electronics are prone to failure. Weather, temperature, etc. Maybe that's why today's cars aren't as reliable as back then. That was the mechanical age and there were a lot of mechanical systems. Today its computers with ESP, BAS, ASR, SBC and all those other things. That's why these cars won't last as long as the ones from long ago. Add that to the poor interior quality and you have a car that will last no more than 5 years.

Good news. Today's Benzes are cheaper than the ones from back then. So before complaining about the quality, be aware that prices are cheaper and that's a good deal.

1993 190E 2.6 = $34,900
2003 C240 = $30,000

1994 SL500 = $99,500
2003 SL500 = $86,600

1993 500E = $80,800
2003 E500 = $55,500
 

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Registered
2002 CLK430
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64 Posts
You make a good point

It's just that people who have been buying Mercedes for years still expect the same quality standards the brand is known for. It is a sign of the times, however, that the quality is going down. People want more and expect to pay less. And then you have some very reliable and stylish competition in the auto marketplace. Mercedes has to compete with that - and those buyers are very brand loyal and not easily won over. So Mercedes goes after the first-time Benz buyers who don't really know what to expect and are happy just to be able to drive a "Benz."
 

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SL500
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56 Posts
Re: It seems that automotive technology is changing a lot more rapidly than before. In my view

Good news. Today's Benzes are cheaper than the ones from back then. So before complaining about the quality, be aware that prices are cheaper and that's a good deal.

1993 190E 2.6 = $34,900
2003 C240 = $30,000

1994 SL500 = $99,500
2003 SL500 = $86,600

1993 500E = $80,800
2003 E500 = $55,500
I really don't think that the price argument is relevent. The exchange rate is most of the reason why they are cheaper now, which MB can't take credit for.
 

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2010 GLK350 4matic->2012 E550 4matic
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149 Posts
Defending Mercedes

It seems that automotive technology is changing a lot more rapidly than before. In my view, the Mercedes-Benzes of the late 80's still look fairly modern today. But 7 years from, the Mercedes-Benzes of today will look very outdated. But one thing that Mercedes-Benz can improve on is the quality of the car. Plastics, wood, interior build quality. But remember- being Mercedes-Benz means a lot of high tech systems and gadgets. And electronics are prone to failure. Weather, temperature, etc. Maybe that's why today's cars aren't as reliable as back then. That was the mechanical age and there were a lot of mechanical systems. Today its computers with ESP, BAS, ASR, SBC and all those other things. That's why these cars won't last as long as the ones from long ago. Add that to the poor interior quality and you have a car that will last no more than 5 years.

Good news. Today's Benzes are cheaper than the ones from back then. So before complaining about the quality, be aware that prices are cheaper and that's a good deal.

1993 190E 2.6 = $34,900
2003 C240 = $30,000

1994 SL500 = $99,500
2003 SL500 = $86,600

1993 500E = $80,800
2003 E500 = $55,500
I agree with 190E2.6's analysis, prices have been driven down due to competition (read Lexus). And we have not even factored in the 10 years' inflation.

Also agree with Tricia1024, with more frequent facelifts as MB's new strategy, I believe a Mercedes would look more dated sooner than before. Clearly the 20 year old face lift intervals are over.

I am still driving a current model Mercedes, not because of any biased blinded loyalty but simply because I believe MB cars still offer excellent value. Instead of criticizing the smell or touch of leather or wood in the car, I appreciate the impressive active and safety features in a current model Mercedes.

Despite their doors may appear heavier and they may look more 'stately', I rather get into a serious accident or drive through nasty conditions in any current model MB than any model models from the 70s or 80s.

I just can't say with a straight face MB is going down in quality. Is quality only measured by the window switches and door gaps? How about much more reliable brakes, stronger chassis, more durable engines?

I judge a car based on its active and passive safety, performance and resale value when compared to the competition. Yes, I would pick a C240 over the G35 for its proven passive safety.

For me, I want the best driving machine and cars are advancing so quickly (similar to computers), it is simply not very wise to expect to hold on to one very long. It may not be very romantic to see a perfectly good car leaving the garage every year or two but surely its replacement only gets better. Sure, new technology may have its fair share of initial problems but I for one think the tradeoff is more than worth while.
 

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1987 560sec
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297 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
hmmmmmm.
i really don't know what to tell you.

i have lived with MB's since i can r...


hmmmmmm.
i really don't know what to tell you.

i have lived with MB's since i can remember. and quality has gon down a lot.

we have a 1999 SL500 that has it's wood developing a film on it. and the car is always garaged parked with 17000 miles on it.

plastic doesn't make it look better, and competition doesn't mean letting go of quality. mercedes is a history. not a brand. you don't buy a ferrari and expect it to have a plastic dash and cheap interior just because of competition. people expect a certain level of luxury from a brand.

and you mentioning better brakes stronger chasis and more durable engines is a joke to say the least.

better brakes? i'll call them BIGGER rotors. my 560sec stops from 60-0 in 128 feet. and thats a 1987 car. most cars can't touch this number yet.

more rigid chasis? it's called technology. things improve, as you said. so why doens't quality head the same way too?

better engines? this must be your biggest mistake. the engines the made were ROCK solid. most of them have 300k miles and are still kicking. i can' imagine why a not so reliable engine would be used in excess of 10 years and in all the model lineup if it wasn't so.

and accidents? have you seen an 80's benz in an accident? if so, have you compared the damage to the other party involved?

why use plastics cheap materials when you can use better things out there. maybe they want to make money from parts, right? well, most of these newer models are sold after the warranty is over. we also have 2 2000 S500, and they have seen the service department of the dealership much more times than the trusty 560sec.

technology and computers. aren't they made to reduce size and moving mechanical parts? well, they're not working.
changing a 6000 computer because the ac doesn't work properly isn't improvement.

i really don't know what else to say. to each his own.

enjoy your benz.[:D]
 

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S430,190E 2.6,SL500
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194 Posts
One thing that hasn't gone down is safety. And I completely agree that Mercedes-Benzes are...

One thing that hasn't gone down is safety. And I completely agree that Mercedes-Benzes are the world's safest cars. But when someone buys a Mercedes, they look for what a Mercedes is known for- not only safety but quality and reliability as well.
 

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Registered
2010 GLK350 4matic->2012 E550 4matic
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149 Posts
Each to his own indeed

Yes ibrahim83, I don't know what to say either. Gosh I didn't know you were driving the best car of all cars, the 1987 560SEC!

Your 1987 560SEC does indeed out brake most cars even made by MB now, after all, they are only putting on bigger roters nowadays anyway.

And the 560SEC has a better chassis and engine too, absolutely.

Not only does it protect you, it even kills the other cars in the process, well done!

And that woodern dash, yes, give me more...

Happy motoring! [:)]
 

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S320W
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610 Posts
Bad Quality

I agree with Ibrahim83. Mercedes benz quality has definately gone down. Last year i was thinking of leasing a 2001 S420 silver with black. Trust me, after driving my W140 S320 for few years, i was not at all impressed with the new benz. Where did all the wood go? Why is there so much cheap plastic all over the place? The overall feel of the car felt like iam driving a rice car (no disrespect). It was too damn light. My W140 or maybe Ibrahim83's 87 560SEC are definately well built machines. My father had a 560 coupe back in the 80s, and trust me, it was a damn sweet car R230. The new vw golf interior is more precious looking than the new s class.

This new SL looks nice, but not as much as the previous models. All the new generation benzes frm c to s look more like a japanease make. I saw the new e class, i can say, i did not like it to the extent that i would stop my car and have a second look.

Following are few articles from trusted sources such as NY Times, Forbes etc. about the new benz line issues. Mercedes-Benz is speanding huge amounts of cash just repairing their cars.

http://www.mbspy.com/mbquality.htm

No hard feelings!
 

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Registered
2010 GLK350 4matic->2012 E550 4matic
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149 Posts
Re: Bad Quality

My father had a 560 coupe back in the 80s, and trust me, it was a damn sweet car R230. The new vw golf interior is more precious looking than the new s class.
We used to own the 450SEL, sold it in the 80s and bought the 560SEL (which we sold about 10 years ago), yes they have certain charm but personally, I rather have my wife drive the current Golf for reliability. With many of you presently driving the models, I'm not going to be rude and dwell on the subject further. I can only say we spent way too much money repairing all the electronic and mechanical problems after the warranty expired!
 

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05 C55 AMG
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273 Posts
Let us hope that the issues being encountered here can be attributed to a first year mod...

Let us hope that the issues being encountered here can be attributed to a first year model and MB will correct these by MY2004. [V]

The new E-Class (W211) is having its share of bugs too.
 

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2008 Xterra Off-Road
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513 Posts
[quote]Clearly the 20 year old face lift intervals are over.[/quote]

Well, the G's have...


Clearly the 20 year old face lift intervals are over.
Well, the G's have yet to really receive a face lift [:)]. I do agree with you though, it seems as if quality is decreasing. I must say I was disappointed when I saw the interior of an SL 55 AMG in the dealership. My 89 300E was TOTALLY ahead of its time in 1989, but now in 2003, the SL55 AMG isn't much to write home about.

I think Mercedes should stick to its old values of making great cars with great technology that will last. It's hard, but hey, it's their job and they're not doing a good job right now!
 

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C200 KOMP. Coupe
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34 Posts
hi guys,
i've noticed how much you guys love the new sl, and i do too, but it is beyond me why mercedes is going down in quality. and the SL is following suit too. i know so because we go throught about 15 cars a year, mercedes only, we deal with some and keep some. and i can tell you, other than the GREAT engineering on these new cars, there isn't anything spectacular about them. oh, and in the last 3 or 4 years mercedes cars have had an unheard of number of bugs and mistakes in putting together their cars, look at the s anc c class forums and you'll know what i mean. and starting from the s or c class whichever you decide to choose, mercedes has abandoned their tradition. especially with their instrument cluster font, centeral window buttons and such. which really makes me consider other brands. dare i say look at nissan? in the last year, they have churned out some of the best models by far. and for prices unheard of before. which would you consider? a loaded 35k c240 or a I35 or the new G35? both look different, and the nissan performs much better.

i've been a mercedes loyalist for all my life, and so has my family. and what is going on now really dissapoints.
you sound like a Kuwaiti! Are you Kuwaiti?!
 

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Registered
1987 560sec
Joined
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297 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
lol,
i was born in kuwait, and lived there. but i'm not a kuwaiti.
why are you asking...


lol,
i was born in kuwait, and lived there. but i'm not a kuwaiti.
why are you asking?
 
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