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1992 300CE, Engine M104, (2002 E320 4matic Wagon—Retired)
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Discussion Starter #21
Bent bolt? I hope there was no damage to the vehicle. The only thing about the MSource bolt is that they do not mention that it fits w210 (it seems like it does not).
 

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Bent bolt? I hope there was no damage to the vehicle. The only thing about the MSource bolt is that they do not mention that it fits w210 (it seems like it does not).
I emailed them and they said they had no idea if it would fit.

Assuming the one on Ebay is the right diameter it should be fine, except that it's also important that it not be too long, as the length multiplies the force (the bolt acts as a lever). 9" seems like it would be lots longer than necessary.
 

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2002 e320 4matic Wagon
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No damage--i was watching it.
There was evidence that one of the jack points had been damaged at one point in it's life. Not sure if the jack had slipped off, or had not been inserted all the way.

I can attest that a 3/4 bolt will fit and that 9 inches is not too long.
I want to take a look at the stock jack--I'm surprised that it is as strong as a grade 8 bolt.
 

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E320/E250 Bluetec Ford F350 6.7l
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As Greg mention, the point of lifting makes big difference. Even the car jack has 3/4" shaft, the shaft gets lot of support right behind mounting hole. If you put a bolt in the hole and lift it 2" off the car body, the 2" makes whole difference.
 

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I do not see why it would matter if the bolt was 3 feet long as long as it did not bend. It is not a lever, the jack lifts the load.
 

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2005 W215 CL500
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I do not see why it would matter if the bolt was 3 feet long as long as it did not bend. It is not a lever, the jack lifts the load.
If it was three feet long, and you placed the jack at the end farthest away from the car, then, in all likelihood, the jacking point would twist up as you tried to lift the car because it is indeed nothing but one mother of a lever.
 

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No fulcrum - no lever.
The fulcrum is the top of the outer edge of the jacking point hole...this is a lever. If the bar was welded to the jack such that it could only go up whilst maintaining a horizontal aspect then yes, but it isn't, so it's a lever.
 

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I do not see why it would matter if the bolt was 3 feet long as long as it did not bend. It is not a lever, the jack lifts the load.
Um, it is indeed a lever. It may not be doing the lifting, but it is doing the *supporting* and you are transferring a significant load to the bolt shaft. Hold a bowling ball next to your body, then hold your arm straight out. It's the same mass, but the load increases.

As to bolt length, the jack cylinder in the frame is only about three inches, so sticking a long bolt in it really won't do much. It only needs to extend a short distance to engage the jack, any more means it has to be a harder bolt. Given the backset to the frame cylinder, 6" should be more than sufficient.

Ruminating on this it does make me wonder, though. I hope the frictional force on the bolt is sufficient to keep the bolt from sliding around in the bore; since it's an angled cylinder it might try to slide in and ding the cladding against the jack.

In any event, I think I'm going to locate a bolt and give it a shot. Three only question is, how hard a bolt would I need to use one of the rear lift points to raise the entire side of the car? :D
 

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I do not see a mechanical advantage of the bolt so to me it is not a lever; the jack will lift the same weight (and use the same force) whether it is under the jacking point or at the end of a 9" long bolt or at the end of a 3' long bolt.

The question in this example is where are you going to find a 3' long bolt 3/4 inches in diameter that will not bend under a thousand pound load. It does not really matter though since we have found a 9"one with 150,000 psi minimum tensile strength; whatever that means.
 

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E320/E250 Bluetec Ford F350 6.7l
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Three only question is, how hard a bolt would I need to use one of the rear lift points to raise the entire side of the car? :D
That again depends how far you set the jack off the car jacking hole.
I am pretty confident that if you can put jack right next to the hole -even wood dovel would support the car weight.
But that might be impossible to set in real life.
 

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That again depends how far you set the jack off the car jacking hole.
I am pretty confident that if you can put jack right next to the hole -even wood dovel would support the car weight.
But that might be impossible to set in real life.
I agree, but make it a 10inch dowel and it will break. Thus the argument about not being a lever is...suspect.
 

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I bet renault12ts is the closest, but then the fulcrum would be the opposite tire/wheel making this a 2nd class lever. Hey, I've been wrong before. Want a shorter bolt cut it off, but I bet you will not find one delivered cheaper.
 

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the bolt can be inserted as far as you want, but it needs to stick out about 2 inches if you want to get a floor jack under it.
 

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Boy, am I glad I took physics. :rolleyes:

Try this. Sit with your butt flat on the floor next to a chair. Put your hand on the floor and raise yourself. Now extend your arm over the chair so your elbow is on the chair and raise yourself. Now move further away from the chair so your arm is extended and just your hand is on the chair, and then raise yourself.

It's the same weight in each case, but the strength (force) needed increased the further you were from the chair...and that increased load went into your arm. That's your long bolt.

There is probably a good description on wikipedia, too.


As to the bolt length, I don't know what lies behind the cylinder, so I wouldn't want a bolt to protrude too far. If it's so long it bottoms out, then it may damage whatever it's resting against.

For all of those reasons, that is why I'm thinking about a length of 6".
 

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Boy, am I glad I took physics. :rolleyes:
Probably doesn't matter how you describe it. If it doesn't look like the drawing with a big rock, a long stick and a small rock underneath the stick, you'll not convince them. :D
 

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Probably doesn't matter how you describe it. If it doesn't look like the drawing with a big rock, a long stick and a small rock underneath the stick, you'll not convince them. :D
Good idea.

cl2ful.jpg

So if this is a Class 2 lever and the diagram of the rocks is representative then the max effort force at the jack hole to lift both tires on the same side off the ground would be 1950 lb. And that makes sense at that is 1/2 the weight of 2000 w210 E320.

Using the 9 inch bolt the force will be about 125 lb less as the jacking point. If you can find that 3 foot long bolt the effort force required at the jack will be only 1220 lbs.

It is going to take a rod about 75 feet long before I can lift it myself, but I think the force at the jack hole is the same no matter what:
 

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Probably doesn't matter how you describe it. If it doesn't look like the drawing with a big rock, a long stick and a small rock underneath the stick, you'll not convince them. :D
Actually it does, but you have to reverse the image in your head. Think about the edge of lifting hole as as small rock (upside down) and the force at the end of the lifting rod under the floor as a big rock.
 

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Good idea.

View attachment 411622

So if this is a Class 2 lever and the diagram of the rocks is representative then the max effort force at the jack hole to lift both tires on the same side off the ground would be 1950 lb. And that makes sense at that is 1/2 the weight of 2000 w210 E320.

Using the 9 inch bolt the force will be about 125 lb less as the jacking point. If you can find that 3 foot long bolt the effort force required at the jack will be only 1220 lbs.

It is going to take a rod about 75 feet long before I can lift it myself, but I think the force at the jack hole is the same no matter what:
Let's agree to disagree.
 
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