[GSX1400]

Hi,
I didn't find any subforum area to introduce myself.

So, I'm Richard from France.
Please excuse some lack of technical terms.

Just bought an S600L-W140 2 months ago.
Nice car.
It was first sold in Japan in January 1995, then brought back to the Netherlands in 2009 with only 14000 kilometers.
And I bought it 2 months ago. 87000kms on the clock.

A pair of pics :

A couple of weeks ago, one of my ignition coils went out.
I drove back home with the right side exhaust smoking and stinking.
Chance, I was only 1 km from home and driving slowly (30 km per hour).
The right hand catalytic converter was starting to become red in the center.

I had the smog test passed after that. Was hard to pass, but managed.

So I changed the 2 coils, 2 distributors, 2 rotors to be on the safe side.

I now have to change the 2 catalytic converters (I want to change both of them just to be with all new stuff).
I'm not planning on putting OEM parts for this...:eek I already asked for a quote at the dealers. :crying

I have found a nice priced option in the UK (~200£/per unit).
They are sold as plug and play so there is the front piping with the catalytics.
It's not a generic thing that I must adjust/solder after (like the Magnaflow that I have found too).

THE question is :
Are the catalytics, and the piping, the same for RHD and for LHD?

These aftermarket parts are made by copying the OEM catalytics which are :
140 490 04 19
and
140 490 05 19
These are part numbers for a RHD (UK Version).

Will they fit plug and play on a LHD?

Thanks to all for your input.

EDIT : I cannot take my part numbers on mine as reference as it is a japanese model with the "temp exh" sensors on them and thus they have another part number.

 

[The donut man]

Try ECS tuning and see if they will ship internationally and what duty would be required.


In the long run, OEM parts are cheaper.

Beautiful car. Azure blue?

 

[GSX1400]

Try ECS tuning and see if they will ship internationally and what duty would be required.


In the long run, OEM parts are cheaper.

Beautiful car. Azure blue?

Hi,
No catalytics for sale on ECS Tuning.
I ordered the MAF wirings from them recently.

I will be driving without the catalytic converters. The smog test is every 2 years. I'll put them on at that moment.
The rest of the time they will be sitting in the garage.

The question, in fact, is not where to buy them but do the LHD and RHD have the same catalytics.
Sometimes, the steering parts interfere and RHD/LHD cars have different exhaust parts.
Thus the questionning.

Yes, it is Azurit Blue. Color code 366.

 

[Joe-V12]

Hi,
I didn't find any subforum area to introduce myself.

So, I'm Richard from France.
Please excuse some lack of technical terms.

Just bought an S600L-W140 2 months ago.
Nice car.
It was first sold in Japan in January 1995, then brought back to the Netherlands in 2009 with only 14000 kilometers.
And I bought it 2 months ago. 87000kms on the clock.

AFAIK pretty much all Japan delivered new cars are RHD. LHD imported cars are legal there which means this car was most likely sold new in some other country, not Japan.

 

[GSX1400]

AFAIK pretty much all Japan delivered new cars are RHD. LHD imported cars are legal there which means this car was most likely sold new in some other country, not Japan.

No,
It was sold new in Japan and is LHD.
The Vin decoder confirms this with the code option : 498 Version for Japan.
Which explains the temperature exhaust sensor on the catalytics.

And here are the lambda sensors :

I have all the original paper work (Japan) when the car was sold new in 01/1995 (production date was 11/1994) and when the car came back to Europe in 2009 + all the invoices.

There were a lot of (very rich) japanese buying euro cars with LHD from their dealers. It was very "up to date" in those days...

So, do you think someone will be able to confirm that RHD/LHD have the same cats?

 

[Joe-V12]

Great info, thanks. There is good reason for the term grey import but with all important paperwork all bets are off.

 

[Merc-S600]

The Cats are the same . I had problems with the exhaust manifold where the connection for the cats was slightly different ,the mechanics used RHD exhaust manifolds & it fitted perfectly ,BUT!!! , the exhaust manifold on my car was bend by the previous owner ,other then that everything fitted perfectly .The only part that does change are the Oxygen Sensors wiring ,not the connector but the internal wires ,Joe Trojan will have more details on that .

My cats came of a LHD 95 S600 & fitted under my RHD 93 S600 with original exhaust manifold , in short words this is all you need to know .:thumbsup:

And BTW: Your 1st post is your Subforum section ,lol.You have done a nice introduction of yourself already ,nice with pictures and all ,Well Done .... .
Welcome the the Benzworld Forum .

 

[eric.dewhirst]

Congrats on the new car. I am with Merc-S600 on this one - they are the same.

Just to give you another perspective - I had my Cats changed by putting on a universal cat from Magnaflow and had a guy who fabricates custom exhausts put it all together for me along with custom ports for the oem oxygen sensors. After all was said and done two cats and fabrication came to around $600 CDN if I am not mistaken. I have put over 25K miles on my car an have had no issues with the aftermarket Cats.

Best of luck with it.

 

[GSX1400]

Hi,
I didn't get any information email telling me that there were answers here on this topic.

Anyways, I bought the RHD cats and I can confirm that RHD and LHD have the same cats as far as the V12 M120 is concerned as did state a former poster here in this subject.

But, I had a hard time putting the LHS one on.
It's diameter was not big enough (lacking ~1mm) so I made 2 cuts on the pipe coming from the car so the pipe would reduce it's diameter a little.
I also had to cut the original pipe coming down from the engine to shorten it. I took off 8mm because the cats pipe wouldn't go far enough to allow for the fitting of the cat pipe that goes upward to the manifold.

Then the Y pipe on this LHS cat was badly welded and is leaking.
I'll have to take it off again as the welder doesn't want to weld on the car to avoid risks for the electronics.

And last, the brackets on this LHS cat that connect to the RHS cat were welded akward and impossible to link.
I cut them off and will have them welded right when the cats are taken off again.

I will be driving the car without the cats in between 2 smog tests (every 2 years).

The original cats are being cut out and will be replaced by simple pipes.
The O² sensors and temp sensors will be put back in these simple pipes.

For the actual cats, I cannot put the temp sensors (only on Japan version) back in. Only the O² sensors can fit.
So I'm driving with them still plugged into the car but just attached underneath the transmission tunnel.

I contacted the seller and we are ok to say there is a very bad manufacture flaw on the LHS cat.
But it would cost too much to send it back, have it checked, get a refund or other cat.
So, I'm going to bite the bullet and pay personnally for these issues.
It's still the cheapest option I had to replace those cats...

Question :
Are the graphite gaskets one use only?
They were hard to fit on...
And to take the old cats off, I did have to do some cutting...

Is there a trick to take the cats off and the back cat off without breaking my back. They are stuck together. Really hard.

Here are some pics to illustrate :

I had my back cat sand-blasted and repainted. Before/after :

 

[GSX1400]

Oh, and another question :
I had my A/C refilled. Oil and everything were put back in.

During the static test (engine idling) eveything was ok, the high and low pressures were perfect and it was blowing ice cold.

As soon as I up the RPM and/or drive the car, the A/C goes off.
Sometimes, if I come to a stop, it will go back on. Most of the time : no.

And now, it es even hard to get it to work at idle.

The A/C guy tried having a look with the ODB, but he could get into everything BUT the A/C system:|:crying.
He said there is a O² sensor error code, but he didn't want to erase it before Mercedes have a look at everything.
He can't tell if the 2 O² sensors are giving the error or only one and which one.
I'm wondering if this is related to my overheating cat issue earlier?
The car works well apart from that and gas mileage is excellent : 12 liters per 100 kilometers doing moutain roads and highway, 4 people and luggage.

The A/C guy told me to go to Mercedes and have them check out what error codes there could be and then he'll work with their infos. They know each other.

I tried the on-board diagnosis thing per KJ6RF website and I seem to have no error codes.
I get E0 00.

Does anyone have an idea or a known issue?

 

[GSX1400]

Ok, according to Mercedes dealer, the A/C clutch is the culprit.
As it is not detailed, you have to buy the whole A/C compressor.
I bought it on Rockauto.com and took a new Denso (not reconditionned) and a Hella dryer.
End of this month, it is going to the A/C shop.

My replacement Kats have been taken out and I have put in direct tubes.
Keeping the 0² sensors AND the temperature sensors (Japanese version) on the direct tubes.

Before :

After :

Sound is more "crispy" under acceleration and cutting off.
On cruising speed, don't hear any difference.
On idle, the car sounds a bit like an old muscle car from the 70/80's in the end of the exhaust.
Glouglouglou...


I can confirm that the car will drive ok with the temperature sensors plugged but not connected to the exhaust (my replacement kats don't have the holes to put them in as they are UK type...).
I tucked them in the clamp that holds the wires when they're plugged on the exhaust and while I was waiting for the welder to do the direct tubes.

No error codes or whatever.
I was even thinking of unplugging them, but I didn't want to leave the plug on the car empty and plenty of road sh*t going in there. Never know...
So I'm keeping them in on my direct tubes.

The gas mileage seems better and the engine seems more brutal in KD mode. The ASR light on the speedo keeps coming on when I floor it (don't do it often though).

Picture of the inside of the destroyed Kat :

The 2 Kats were sold to a specialized company for 240€...the direct tubes cost me 300€. So, not such a bad deal. Especially if the gas mileage gets better too!

The welder repaired the leaky Y pipe.
Before :

After :

But I didn't care for the brackets to be repaired as I'm only going to use the Kats for the smog tests every 2 years and take them out as soon as the test is done.

 

[GSX1400]

Some other questions now :
1° I have an air pump for the exhaust. Should I cut it off some way AND how would you do this?
Some people are saying that I could have problems on my valves running an air pump without Kats in.
Your point of view on this question?

2° How do you get the ECU box out (I have to change the MAF harness, only this harness)? Any pictures of this box and advice on how and what to do?
I looked on my DVD shop manual and didn't find the information.

3° How do you change the spark plug cables/leads? Do I have to take the inlet manifold out???

4° I'm still looking for the power steering filter...can't find it. :eek

 

[The donut man]

Something's are deeper.....the ac system on my car can detect belt slipping which shuts off the compressor...an internet guess but there you go) I am not sure what the second refrence point is but your compressor should have an internal tachometer if you have a few wires there.

A fault will shut the compressor off if there is a speed discrepancy such as driving through a puddle and getting the belt wet.

 

[GSX1400]

:frown Don't tell me I bought a new compressor for nothing... :crying

The official dealer put the Stardiag on my car and a code error came up :
On the GM chapter (which is the A/C) =
006 A/C clutch stuck
007 Belt slipping

So he told me the compressor must be "seizing" sometimes OR the clutch is going out (you never hear the belt squeal, so it musn't be slipping?).
The A/C shop said : change the whole compressor, you won't find a clutch alone.
The only clutchs alone you'll find are available at salvage yards and so are used ones (who is sure that a used part like this is ok? You can't test it before...).
And du to the amount of labor to get to it to, maybe, find out that the clutch wasn't the culprit, would make me spend again many $$$ to change the whole compressor this time.
So I took the option to change it straight away.

Now, if I understand you well, the speed sensor of the compressor could be faulty?
Wouldn't that show up on the Stardiag? I mean more clearly than by interpreting the error codes?
Is there a way of testing it (with a multimeter and knowing what the resistance values should be)?

Is this speed sensor available as a spare part? Part number and source to buy?

I could try and take the one on the new compressor and put it on the old one to try?
BUT : is there oil or A/C gas behind this sensor?

Here are a couple of pictures of my new compressor awaiting the appointement at the end of the month at the A/C shop for the change.

And here must be the speed sensor :

Considering the wiring harness, looks like I would have to take the clutch out to take the entire harness/sensor out and put it on my cars compressor.
Du to lack of space on car, I'm wondering if I'd have to take the compressor off the car.
If yes, then I'd rather go ahead and put the whole new unit on then...same labor and...sure of the result.
The change of the speed sensor alone is valuable only if it can be done with the compressor in the car.

Eager to read your thoughts...:wink

 

[nowhereman]

Some other questions now :
1° I have an air pump for the exhaust. Should I cut it off some way AND how would you do this?
Some people are saying that I could have problems on my valves running an air pump without Kats in.
Your point of view on this question?

The smog pump only comes on when the engine is cold to make sure unburnt fuel gets burned up in the exhaust pipe. My 600SEL has the cat-delete option and still has the smog pump. So Mercedes certainly had no qualms about removing the cats and leaving the smog pump in. I know it's active because the bearings are starting to go and it grinds a bit at cold startup. :frown

3° How do you change the spark plug cables/leads? Do I have to take the inlet manifold out???

I've asked this once and got no answer, would really like to know. I would hope not but not tried yet as changing the leads to the distributor fixed my ignition problems.

 

[Merc-S600]

Do you mean the ECU box under the hood just in front of the firewall where all the control modules are in ? , opposite side were the fusebox is .:thumbsup:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140-s-class/2380153-abs-asr-trigger-random.html#post12248345

I've asked this once and got no answer, would really like to know. I would hope not but not tried yet as changing the leads to the distributor fixed my ignition problems.

To change the HT Leads (spark plug leads ) on the V12 M120 ,the Manifold has to be removed , the cables are inside a casing underneath it,you can see it from the front ,the black plastic cover on top of each rocket cover .:thumbsup:

 

[GSX1400]

The smog pump only comes on when the engine is cold to make sure unburnt fuel gets burned up in the exhaust pipe. My 600SEL has the cat-delete option and still has the smog pump. So Mercedes certainly had no qualms about removing the cats and leaving the smog pump in. I know it's active because the bearings are starting to go and it grinds a bit at cold startup. :frown

Ok, now I know where that noise is coming from. I thought it could be the viscous fan making noise at first start...
So it's the smog pump.
It's on the RHS, yes? Near the airbox-filter?
Can it be taken out of the car easily and can it be repaired by a DIYer? Any subject on this forum with pictures concerning this smog pump?

 

[GSX1400]

Do you mean the ECU box under the hood just in front of the firewall where all the control modules are in ? , opposite side were the fusebox is .:thumbsup:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140-s-class/2380153-abs-asr-trigger-random.html#post12248345




To change the HT Leads (spark plug leads ) on the V12 M120 ,the Manifold has to be removed , the cables are inside a casing underneath it,you can see it from the front ,the black plastic cover on top of each rocket cover .:thumbsup:

Yes It is the ECU box I'm talking about. Read your thread. Very interesting.

BTW : do you know how to subscribe to a topic without having to post on it?
I'd like to keep your topic on the ECU box at hand.

So, the harness coming from the engine compartment goes into the box from underneath?
Could you show some pictures of the ECU box out of the car, I don't quite understand how it is held in place once in the car?
To take the box out, how do separate it from the harness that goes into it?

Very sad to learn about the plug cables. What a design flaw there...having to take out the manifolds to change the cables...what a pain in the neck! :crying

Has someone done an illustrated topic on this?

Thanks for all your feedback guys!

When I'll have done the job, I'll will post back with pictures. In a while. First the A/C stuff to do : $$$$

 

[Merc-S600]

Yes It is the ECU box I'm talking about. Read your thread. Very interesting.

BTW : do you know how to subscribe to a topic without having to post on it?
I'd like to keep your topic on the ECU box at hand.

So, the harness coming from the engine compartment goes into the box from underneath?
Could you show some pictures of the ECU box out of the car, I don't quite understand how it is held in place once in the car?
To take the box out, how do separate it from the harness that goes into it?

Very sad to learn about the plug cables. What a design flaw there...having to take out the manifolds to change the cables...what a pain in the neck! :crying

Has someone done an illustrated topic on this?

Thanks for all your feedback guys!

When I'll have done the job, I'll will post back with pictures. In a while. First the A/C stuff to do : $$$$

Check the Vid below out & you see how to take out a module .To take out the complete box ,take the modules out 1st ,number them 1-2-3-4-5-6 in order ,front to back ,once you got them out ,you will see an Allen nut on each side of the box (X4) ,when you take them of ,the box lifts up revealing all the cables underneath ,pretty easy once you get into it .
There is one guy that changed the HT leads on his V12 by taking the Manifold of ,but then when he put it back ,1st he reinstalled the manifold and then just plugged in the HT leads over the manifold , good idea but looked awful ,lol, I wonder what the heat does to the leads touching the top of the manifold ,lol.
On YouTube there are videos you can watch how to take the manifold of , not that difficult but you need gaskets & while that's of ,it's a good idea to install a new Breader Hose & Knock Sensors that are located in between the V underneath the manifold .
To Subscribe to a post ,scroll down when you post a new message , under where it says Manage Attachments ,look at the box under it "Notification Type " Subscribe " .:thumbsup:
If you talking about the engine Harness ,there is a big connector that you just disconnect to take it all of , underneath the black side covering and not underneath the ECU box ,you cant miss it .

 

[GSX1400]

Check the Vid below out & you see how to take out a module .To take out the complete box ,take the modules out 1st ,number them 1-2-3-4-5-6 in order ,front to back ,once you got them out ,you will see an Allen nut on each side of the box (X4) ,when you take them of ,the box lifts up revealing all the cables underneath ,pretty easy once you get into it .

The 4 Allen nuts you're talking about are the ones that I can see on the outside?
These ones (red arrows and red circles)?
I just went and took these pictures.

I have my 2 MAF harness to change.
I've got them :

Do you think I can go back way up to the plug in the ECU box and replace the whole thing in order not to do welding job or put a connector somewhere on the MAF cables where they are not cracked (after the separation between the engine compartment)?
I would then need the little brass connectors that are in the plastic plug (where to find these)?
That would be a clean job that way.

My harness at the moment :

Only the brown colors and the MAF harness is affected.

The harness between the V12 manifolds has already been changed a couple of years ago (still like new) by the previous owner.

There is one guy that changed the HT leads on his V12 by taking the Manifold of ,but then when he put it back ,1st he reinstalled the manifold and then just plugged in the HT leads over the manifold , good idea but looked awful ,lol, I wonder what the heat does to the leads touching the top of the manifold ,lol.

Yes, that must be horribly messy looking.
He can use custom made wires so they're longer and then use wire clamps like these :
SKANDIX Shop Volvo parts: Holder, Iginition cable Valve cover 1276710 (1019473)

Then re-route the cables so it looks clean enough.
And to take out the old wires, just cut them at the end and pull them out?

Anyways, as I like an original look, I'll have to bite the bullit one day.
I already have the whole cable kit at hand in a box...

On YouTube there are videos you can watch how to take the manifold of , not that difficult but you need gaskets & while that's of ,it's a good idea to install a new Breader Hose & Knock Sensors that are located in between the V underneath the manifold .

I take good note of your advice. Thanks.
Don't want to do this job twice!

To Subscribe to a post ,scroll down when you post a new message , under where it says Manage Attachments ,look at the box under it "Notification Type " Subscribe " .:thumbsup:
If you talking about the engine Harness ,there is a big connector that you just disconnect to take it all of , underneath the black side covering and not underneath the ECU box ,you cant miss it .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NA1DfUNIBE

Yes. This I've understood.
BUT, how to subscribe WITHOUT answering on the topic?
I didn't find out.