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Discussion Starter #1
I got new tires.

The one on the right is my old 285/75-16. New one on the left is 315/75-16.

Front tire rubs trailing arm when steered all the way. I will take this to offroad and see if tire rubs other parts.

Total of balance weight I had to put on all five tires is more than 1Kg. Oh, man.... That's a lot of weights[:0][:0]

Yasu
 

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diehardg - 2/19/2005 8:24 AM



Total of balance weight I had to put on all five tires is more than 1Kg. Oh, man.... That's a lot of weights[:0][:0]

Yasu
You're right about that. If I have to put more that 80-90 gm on a single wheel/tire, I consider that to be excessive.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
DUTCH - 2/20/2005 10:40 PM

You're right about that. If I have to put more that 80-90 gm on a single wheel/tire, I consider that to be excessive.
On my old 285/75-16 tires, maximum balance weight I put on one tire is about 100g. I've been changing tires and balancing tires since 4th grade because my family runs tire shop. In my whole life, this is the worst balanced tire I've seen... But don't get this wrong. My rim is 7 inch wide. I am not supposed to mount those 315 tire on this rim. I think beat is seated. But when the tire was turned on the balancer, I could see the tire was not prefect round. So, maybe due to the narrow rim, beat is not seated prefectly. Who knows... I will try to rebalance again next month.

On the good side, I have much more clearance under my car. I can lower the air pressure without lowering the car too much, so the tire hugs the ground so nicely. I have much more traction on rocks.

I will attach a picture below. Red arrow points where the rear tire rubs.

Yasu
 

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my front tires rub the radius arms also...i think the shop that mounted my swampers used all the weights in the shop to get mine balanced!!!
 

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Yasu

With your 3cm lift and those 35" tires, how much rubbing do you experience on flat paved roads (like on the highway, for example)? And since you upgraged to size 35, why did you choose to not upgrade your springs to give you at least 3" of suspension lift (besides not wanting the wife to climb up higher)?

You're the only person I know who runs 35" tires on his G500. [:D] [:)] [:p]
 

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RE: Yasu

BrentG500 - 5/3/2005 3:17 AM

With your 3cm lift and those 35" tires, how much rubbing do you experience on flat paved roads (like on the highway, for example)?

You're the only person I know who runs 35" tires on his G500. [:D] [:)] [:p]
Brent,

No rubbing on highway. It rubs when steered all the way to either side if the car is on the flat surface. Right tire rubs exhaust pipe when steered and flexed. Left tire rubs pitmanarm when steered to right.

Tire rubs but don't worry! It won't stop you[:D]
If you don't like rubbing, you can always adjust the amount you can steer.

And since you upgraged to size 35, why did you choose to not upgrade your springs to give you at least 3" of suspension lift (besides not wanting the wife to climb up higher)?
I couldn't find a way to lift three inches. If you lift this much, front prop shaft will hit cross member. Also, Three inch lift is nothing but decoration without longer shocks. There aren't any shocks available for three inch lift. I think brake line and ABS lines are too short for the set up. You can easily make longer brake lines but I don't know about ABS lines.

There are many issues for three inches. I think you don't have to deal with those if you are planning two inch lift.

Are you planning to put 35s? Be ready to spend extra $$ for gas. Mileage is gone worse about 20%[xx(]

Yasu
 

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RE: Yasu

Your mileage did not get worse. Your 35" tires are almost 20% larger than stock. So, your trip computer reads 20% less miles = 20% less miles per gallon.

Harald
 

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RE: Yasu

diehardg - 5/2/2005 3:08 PM

I couldn't find a way to lift three inches. If you lift this much, front prop shaft will hit cross member. Also, Three inch lift is nothing but decoration without longer shocks. There aren't any shocks available for three inch lift. I think brake line and ABS lines are too short for the set up. You can easily make longer brake lines but I don't know about ABS lines.
Yasu, it's good to hear from you! [:)] Actually, Extrem-Motorsport sells coils for a three inch lift along with a heavy duty shock set. And you're right, the brake lines and ABS lines need to be adjusted for this type of fit. Here's what Extrem says about their three inch lift:

Caused of the very different weight's of all the engine and equipment types of the G-wagen, it seemed to be necessary to design two different sets of the suspension springs. Additionaly there is a set of trimpackers for the front axle which gives 18mm extra lift. (also for o/e springs)Longered springs sometimes perform a "bulky" design during their life. This is not a negative influence to your comfort or safety!

On some models there is a metal bottom on the down end of the front limiting rubber. We recommend to remove them to avoid inconvenient noises. On vehicles with less space between oilpan and axle tube or housing it's recommended to support them with washers or similar material. If you look at the rear spring, you will see that a few turns have contact. This is standard and allows more axle travel. O/E springs from Mercedes got some rubber isolation on their ends to avoid noise. We quit that intentionally, because in this area the O/E springs crack very often.

Sometimes some noise with our springs will be heard on off-road tracks or back country roads. This noise is without hesitation!

An important thing about the shafts: Before installation you should check them for damage!Otherwise vibrations from driveline will appear and can cause damage and expensive repair. For short 463 series never install heavy springs in the rear without heavy load or special rear drive shaft! The 460 can be driven with average load of eg. rear seat, spare wheel, toolbox, trailer hitch or other things. In every installation you should shorten your time between two grease jobs!

During our intense road testing the shocks showed an sufficient stroke. You can handle our springs with your O/E shocks. Mercedes offers also a "heavy duty" package with SACHS-shocks. These and the BILSTEIN Off-Road-Set (the best from our point of view) will improve your onroad comfort and off-road performance.

Off-road testing showed that a high springrate is an advantage cause wheels do not dig in quite easy (especially on loose ground like sand or gravel). Maybe you had to use the diff-locks more often on an light vehicle. If you want to use longer shocks for more axle travel, please check brake lines and the hydraulic-hoses for the differential locks closely! In every case the driver should carefully check out his vehicles new possibilities. (On and Off road)

Warning!
This suspension has been modified to improve off-road performance. As a result this vehicle may handle differently than factory equipped vehicles. Extreme care must be used to prevent loss of control or rollover during sharp turn or abrupt maneuvers. Failure to drive this vehicle safely may result in serious injury or death. Do not drive your vehicle unless you are familar with its unique handling characteristics, and are confident of your ability to maintain control under all driving conditions. Consult the instructions accompanying this product and the vehicles owner's manual for additional product safety warning. Wear your seat belts all the time.

EXTREM spring sets will on special notice, come with an German "TÃœV" certificate to help you with the DOT if necessary. The change of springs is similar to original equipment.
Are you planning to put 35s? Be ready to spend extra $$ for gas. Mileage is gone worse about 20%[xx(]
Yes, I'm seriously thinking about putting 33's or 35's. I'm also trying to consider if it will be worth it given the ESP sensitivity and all the other issues that arise from adding larger tires (longer brake lines, shocks/springs, ABS lines, etc). A part of me is saying go for it, while the practical part of me is saying think it through, talk to some people who have this setup and see how well it works.

I have to parallel park more often than not, so I want something that doesn't rub (or at least rub too much). [:)]

Your springs came from ORC (part number, front/rear) did you say? Thanks for your help! [:p]

Here's a pic of the 3" kit with 33" tires:

 

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"serious injury or death"

Warning!
This suspension has been modified to improve off-road performance. As a result this vehicle may handle differently than factory equipped vehicles. Extreme care must be used to prevent loss of control or rollover during sharp turn or abrupt maneuvers. Failure to drive this vehicle safely may result in serious injury or death. Do not drive your vehicle unless you are familar with its unique handling characteristics, and are confident of your ability to maintain control under all driving conditions. Consult the instructions accompanying this product and the vehicles owner's manual for additional product safety warning. Wear your seat belts all the time.
Strange buisness of selling people PROBLEMS!
I would think it is better for buisness in the long run to sell SOLUTIONS.
But I admit that the solutions are more expensive than the problems and ORC and others do not seam to have faith in selling propper solutions on this market.

It looks like a promising buisness to sell long and stiff springs that show drastic and quick result, can be shipped as an "add on" item and is easy to mount.
A propper lift requires a whole lot of adjustments to the new ride height and the car must be brought to a workshop with skilled staff.
And on topp of all that, those longer coils do nothing to prevent rubbing as the tire can travel as far upp as before at full flex!
A longer "limiting rubber" (as it is called in this article) might be sold with the taller springs as "add on" if the aim is just to mount bigger tires without rubbing, or just weld a higher platform on top of the housing, inside the coil.

Rubbing at front radius arms and anti-sway bar can not be escaped by any form of lift...

ORC dont garanty "serious injury or death" but worse ride quality and reduced driving safety can be taken for granted... -but can easyly be avoided. [xx(]
 

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RE: "serious injury or death"

Karl Ingolfsson - 5/2/2005 6:48 PMStrange buisness of selling people PROBLEMS!
I would think it is better for buisness in the long run to sell SOLUTIONS. . . . ORC dont garanty "serious injury or death" but worse ride quality and reduced driving safety can be taken for granted... -but can easyly be avoided. [xx(]
Karl! How are you doing, buddy!
 

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RE: "serious injury or death"

All well here Captain,

I´m just recycling my standard feedbak to those that think they can get "all for nothing" in a colorful package from ORC or similar problem makers that do not tell the whole "lift" story.... [}:)]

According to O´Toole, -"Murphy was an optimist!"
 

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RE: "serious injury or death"

Karl Ingolfsson - 5/2/2005 7:24 PM

All well here Captain,

I´m just recycling my standard feedbak to those that think they can get "all for nothing" in a colorful package from ORC or similar problem makers that do not tell the whole "lift" story.... [}:)]
I'm just happy to see that you're upholding the tradition! [:)]

Cheers!
 

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RE: "serious injury or death"

Karl,

I noticed the limiting strap (or as the Germans extracted from a dictionary: "limiting rubber") in the above picture as well.

On one hand they sell longer shocks for more downtravel - on the other hand they limit downtravel by installing a limiting strap (too much downtravel can cause damage on joints and drive line since the system was not designed for much downtravel).
Best would probably be, to keep the standard shocks when installing taller springs - the shocks are designed to limit downtravel. Then you don't have trouble with brake lines ABS lines etc.

If one would need extreme suspension movement (up and down) like in rockcrawling or off-road racing the entire suspension, and possibly the frame, must be redesigned. There are knowledgeable shops doing that all the time. But expect a $100k (yes, one hundred thousand) bill. I have teenage neighbors who will slap one together on a long weekend (for a few hundred $ and plenty of beer). But they are always rebuilding after 10 miles or so.

In ORC's honor I have to say that they build and design well functioning and durable conversions. What you do with the components they are selling might be a different story and they can't be responsible for that.

Harald
 

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RE: "serious injury or death"

You are right Harald, I´m not talking against products lice ORC springs. But the warning text did not mention the simple things that must be done to make tall springs safe and feasible or to be of any use of preventing rubbing. The phrase "serious injury or death" in that text should be connected to a little text of recomended modifications to counteract the negative issues of by far higher stand.
4x4abc - 5/3/2005 7:49 AM
If one would need extreme suspension movement (up and down) like in rockcrawling or off-road racing the entire suspension, and possibly the frame, must be redesigned. There are knowledgeable shops doing that all the time. But expect a $100k (yes, one hundred thousand) bill.
Harald
If 100.000$ is what you have to pay for suspension rebuild I can understand people avoiding that expense and fight the steering wheel instead....
But this is not the experience here in Iceland.
Here you can get good quality suspension systems for either offroading or overland use, for a fraction of that ammount.
G is an overland vehicle more than an offroader and the stock suspension is good for that use. Rebuilding a G to become an "offroader" means throwing out the radius arms, rebuild suspension completely and putting the beast on "serious diet" [}:)]. But this discussion was not about that, It started as the old discussion of how to mount bigger tires on otherwise unaltered stationwagon. Adjusting suspension links, up and down travel, brake lines, shocks and pitman arm etc. is well worth the discussion and not all that complex or expensive (apart from the dropped pitman arm that I dont know is availible or not)
 

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As long as the anit-lift mantra has been thrown out there again, I will counter[:D]

I have three inches of lift with longer shocks on my swb 280GE. I run 35x12.5-15 tires and they don't rub. They do not rub on the pitman arm, they do not rub on the suspension arms and they do not hit the fender under full compression even with no mods to the rubber stop. Obviously the truck requires a slight modification to driving style but it is not dangerous or hindered in normal driving. Off-road it is spectacular and the tall, soft springs give an excellent ride on rough roads.

I also have 2 inches of lift on my G320 and run stock shocks. That truck has 285/75-16 (33") tires and drives pretty much like a stocker. No rubbing, no issues with brake lines etc. I have driven it on several 1000+ mile trips at speeds over 90mph and not had any issues.

The G chassis is more resiliant to mods than some would like you to believe. I have been living with a lifted 463 G for years now and frankly do not understand the fuss that is made over the practice of lifting the truck.
 

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i guess i get lost when it comes to the G, Granted it has more electrical stuff that we want and could cause problems.

Where im lost is the longer springs, longer brake lines, more flex. However do G's not have bump stops to limit the up travel (when the suspension goes up to hit body parts). Also when i played with jeeps all the spings on them bolted to the bottom perch? There for the shock and sping limited the downward movement and held in place. Does the G not have this? If not would be that hard to drill and tap to make a spring retainer?

Like i said i have not lifed mine yet because i dont have the money. I would think a 3" on 02-+ would be plenty of room to run a 35" tire. Maybe chuck can chime in on this because he made some springs. Right now im on stock suspnsion and have a 275-65-18 which on good years web page is a 32.1050.18. It does not run under full flex, with two people but is VERY VERY close in the rear.
 

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Brent,

As I have said 222 times here: [8D]
Lift is OK but I higly recomend that people do not alter caster, or ride with tilting suspension arms, cause it is resonable simple to correct the new position and get as smooth ride as before.

Mounting longer coils without adjusting the other things is simply not practiced here anymore. It is generally not considered worth the trouble and risk when the mods are availible from several good workshops in town...

Eaven MB sorts those things out when they make higher G for special use.

I know how 35" fit under G with stock bump stops. Longer springs alone do not affect that in any way.

I mention the safety and comfort issue in good faith as not many others bother...

Suspension lifts were pretty wild here some 20 years ago but with groving know how and experience, most people realize that a finished suspension lift is the "whole package" as the lifted cars are used equally on and off the road and there simply is no need to compromize road handling like it was done "in the old days".
 

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karl's statement of running 35's with no lift probably needs to be clarified that he's running a 460 series chassis that doesn't have the bulky exhaust running down next to the fender wells as in the g500s. I can't remember if he's running stock fender flares, or 463 series equivalent fender liners also?
 

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Brent - 5/3/2005 11:07 AM

As long as the anit-lift mantra has been thrown out there again, I will counter[:D]

I have three inches of lift with longer shocks on my swb 280GE. I run 35x12.5-15 tires and they don't rub. They do not rub on the pitman arm, they do not rub on the suspension arms and they do not hit the fender under full compression even with no mods to the rubber stop. Obviously the truck requires a slight modification to driving style but it is not dangerous or hindered in normal driving. Off-road it is spectacular and the tall, soft springs give an excellent ride on rough roads.

I also have 2 inches of lift on my G320 and run stock shocks. That truck has 285/75-16 (33") tires and drives pretty much like a stocker. No rubbing, no issues with brake lines etc. I have driven it on several 1000+ mile trips at speeds over 90mph and not had any issues.

The G chassis is more resiliant to mods than some would like you to believe. I have been living with a lifted 463 G for years now and frankly do not understand the fuss that is made over the practice of lifting the truck.
Brent any chance you can post pics of both your G's ??

Also Yasu ... how do you like the MTR's ?? What would you say their weakest point is ?? Thxs in advance guys !!
 
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