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94 E420
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I am new to the W140 world, but not to this forum. I usually hang out with the W124 guys [:)]

I am contemplating adding a W140 to the stable. I am interested in a S500 or S600 sedan. Other then usual used car stuff, is there any chronic problem areas on these cars one should watch for when purchasing? Any particular year’s better/worse then others? I am a little leery of the V12 -- maybe I should stick with the V8? -- but I would rather have the extra 70 or so HP the V12 offers. I don’t really care about the fuel mileage difference as this car will not be a daily driver.

Thanks in advance for your advice,

Colorado
 

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98 BMW 528i
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589 Posts
I have heard some nasty things about the wiring harnesses in the 600's. Im not sure how common this is however.
 

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i got a 1996 S600 and is the best car i ever bought its a monter go with the S600 u will love it i have on mine 450 HPand 480 ftq [:)][:)]
 

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1997 S600 (sold)
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I haven't heard anyone say the V-12 is any more problematic

than any of the other engines offered in the W140. But, I suppose you can reasonably expect it to cost more to fix when there is a problem with it.

For W140 problems in general, I would search the forum. A few recent discussions w/in the last couple of months produced lists of known common issues. No need to write it all out again.

For what it's worth, I've had my 97 S600 sedan for 11 months. Received it with 89,000 miles, now has 105,000. 16,000 daily driven miles. Couple of 1000 mile road trips. No major issues. It has an oil leak from the front of the engine, which I was aware of, but I'm putting off dealing with it until I do the timing chain. My car had documented dealer service in its books until I bought it. One of the reasons that I did buy it. Just do your normal due diligence before buying, and you'll be fine with the V12 (unless just buying the car is a stretch financially, and you couldn't afford an expensive repair if it comes your way).

And, based on your statements, sounds like you will never be happy with settling for the V8. I wouldn't have been. Good luck shopping. There is wide variability in advertised prices on S600's. In my opinion, many people (and car dealers) are dreaming about what they can get for their 600's. I got my 97 model with 89K miles for $21,500 one year ago. My car had a couple of known issues which factored in (oil leak and non-functioning door/trunk closing assist system).

Brett
 

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1996 S600 (Sebastian), 1999 SLK230 Kompressor (Tie Fighter)
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they are correct. the v12 is as sound as the v8. Sabastian (how i affectionately refer to my s600) is a dream. there were a few items i've had to have done but for a 9 yr old auto nothing out of the ordinary. you will want to have a reserve set aside for repairs as they WILL come along. it's inevitable with either the 12 or 8.

one of the reasons i chose the 600 are all of the extras they come with that only the v12 will get. and then there's that 'snarl' that Sebastian has when i want to really feel the v12 move out. nothing like it. good luck! let us know how you do! [8D]
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the replies and the info……..I am going “shopping� this afternoon [:D]

JLS600, what mods did you do to your V12 to crank out 450HP? I am impressed!!

Thanks again,

Colorado
 

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SEC 600 V12 2dr COUPE (RHD) One of the chosen few.
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450 HP.. hmm.. I just continue with the standard 408 on mine.. I hardly EVER need to use it all.. cept for times when i have beemers in the rear view..they go.. small.. smaller .. gone..
 

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i only changed the stock filters too a k&n ferformance filters and on the intake tube i put 2 turbonators its only for 2 spin the air faster in 2 the engine that helps a lot
i done my testings before with out this eqipments and i did 6 sec in 0-60 and 1/4 mile 14 sec and now i do 0-60 in 5.4sec and 1/4 mile in the very low 13 sec and only costed me too do this around 200 bucks read more in too the turbonator.com or spiralmax good luck but u definetly need some k&n filters will improve your ride[:)]
 

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1997 S600 (sold)
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Well, I'd hold off on the "Turbonators" until you see some

real life dyno charts. Personally, I'd have to be present at the dyno session to believe anything. I follow the major Boxster board, and as far as K&N filters go, oil from the filters fouling MAF sensors has been an issue for the Boxster. HP gains are dubious, but sound gains are nice, since the intake is right next to the drivers left ear.

Brett
 

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i havent done the dino test yet but i have the g techpro.I have tryed in my friends car wich is a 1996 s320 and his car coming from the factory stats has 225hp and when i tested it only had 205 on his .And 0-60 factory says about 8.9 sec when i tested it only did 9.6 sec on 0-60 .The car is older 2 probably lost 20 hp ,and olso tried it on my other friens car wich is a 96 audi A6 the book says it has 172 hp when i test it only had 156hp
and we test it on mine its some times 448 some times 450 even and that is the actual hp and not the dino test .
 

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1995 S600 (sold)
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JLS600 - 2/28/2005 10:32 AM

i only changed the stock filters too a k&n ferformance filters and on the intake tube i put 2 turbonators its only for 2 spin the air faster in 2 the engine that helps a lot
[:)]
Get rid of the K&N's ASAP. Do a search on this forum, you'll find people with bad $$$ experiences because of the K&N's.
 

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1997 S600 (sold)
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OK, but these handheld dynamometers make HP calculations

based upon acceleration that the instrument measures while sitting in your front seat (or whereever) and also based upon data that you must enter such as the weight of the car (gearing too?, I'm not sure). To me it is too much of an uncontrolled experiment to be credible. The handheld accelerometer could be tilted a little throwing off its measurements. Your inputs such as vehicle weight are the assumptions that it uses for calculation. Did you weigh your car with you in it and with the weight of gasoline and fluids in it right before your acceleration tests? Did you use the Mercedes published curb wieght? Is that a dry weight or wet weight? I don't know the answer to that. But, all these programmed in values could be off and will then translate to errors from reality.

These handheld instruments are best used to observe HP differences in back to back comparisons once you make a modification (ie. relative HP gains or losses) rather than absolute HP measurements. So what was your HP before the K&N and Turbonators and then after?

HP figures reported by manufacturers are HP numbers measured at the engine crankshaft not at the rear wheels. With the typical 10-15% efficiency losses in the driveline, you will always see rear wheel HP be below manufacturer reported numbers.

Brett
 

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SEC 600 V12 2dr COUPE (RHD) One of the chosen few.
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opps MEOWWWW!!!!

Wait till those 450 horses eat the K&N's, and your little MAFs give up the ghost.. uhuh.. and what sort of HP will you have then??
 

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1997 S600 (sold)
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Some of us are just skeptics (or cynics or just plain bitter :) ).

I don't know much about K&N filters. I do know that they claim to increase horsepower by allowing better air flow. I simply refuse to believe it until I see the results with my own eyes. These days, the paper element air filters are pretty high quality, and I just don't think the air flow gains from an oil element air filter are all they are advertised to be. I'd have to run a test myself to prove it to myself, but I just don't have the time or equipment. I'll leave the burden of proof on the guy who says it works.

The MAF (mass air flow) sensor is a sensor that measures the amount of air passing through the intake into the engine. The car's ignition computer uses this measurement of air flow to properly adjust the amount of fuel injected into the intake runners. Actually, the term "MAF sensor" is used among Porsche people. Mercedes calls it the air mass meter. The sensor is an exposed metal element that is in the intake air flow. Some info (first thing that came up on google.)

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h34.pdf

Oil from a K&N filter can and does get blown off the filter and contaminate the sensitive metal element of the air mass meter. When this happens, the meter gives incorrect readings to the computer which then delivers the wrong amount of fuel to the engine resulting in bad performance. Although K&N disagrees.

http://www.knfilters.com/massair.htm

It's just a pain to have to deal with especially when HP gains from the K&N filters are unsubstantiated at best (at least in my opinion).

Plus, oil is just messy to deal with. I'd rather pull out the old filter, throw it out, and put in a fresh one.

As far as turbonators go, common sense tells me that it just can't be so. If it really works, why hasn't this miracle of automotive engineering been introduced by the car manufacturers into their new cars? I guarantee that if any car maker could increase its engine's HP with a simple $1 part, it would.

Brett
 

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If you are faint of pocketbook, pass by the V-12. Otherwise, the V-12 is the only way to go. [:D]
 

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Increasing torque, power, "snarl" (noise) in the S-class is childish and a waste of time, money, nerves and a perfectly comfortable and tranquill ride at best. If you want to "tune" something then may I suggest you go for a 2-liter turbo plant of far-eastern origins in a mid-size 4wd saloon.

But as far as the 6.0l v12 is concerned, I struggle to see why someone thinks it might be difficult to bring it north of the 600 bhp mark. Similar normally-aspirated engine from bavaria ticks in the big ole Macca.
 
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