Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

1 - 20 of 51 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So I'm about to bite the bullet and start piecing together what I want to be the ultimate m104 engine. However I'm still lacking some information that might sway what year head and what sized rods I go with. Is there a best head version to go with? Either for flow or valve train components? definitely want to stick with 3 or 3.2 litres to keep the rod ratio high and take some pressure off the stock pistons and h beam rods at high boost. Unless the 2.8 has significantly thicker sidewalls? Can anyone shed light on that?What Would be the best length rod for low cr but still decent r/s ratio? i was also very intrigued buy another person on a forum who suggested the possibility of having the vvt cam from the intake also on the exhaust side. Is this possible? Would I need to use a distributor model cam cover to have the room? Also I'll be getting a set of custom cams made up for the heads but cant seem to find any info on deleting the factory hydraulic buckets. Were can I find shimmed or shimless buckets for these motors? Do they exist? Any other ideas are more than welcome that hasnt been done haha. Has anyone managed to find the stock block limits? Or even the stock pistons limits. Cheers and thanks in advance! And happy boosting guys

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
04 odyssey (265k) 1995 E320 wagon (295k)
Joined
·
2,929 Posts
Have you read up on pumpish and his tourbina? He's out of sweeden by way of Russia. Has gotten 1000 hp from a stock bottom end with about a billion psi. He has a website selling kits under "turbobandit". Not cheap, but he's probably the most modern boosted 103/104 expert. I'll say he seems to be quite a character!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Haha i follow his video religiously hes both funny and extremely smart with these engines. However his site or videos never mention solid buckets or witch length rods are for witch purpose for some reason so i thought one of the many other just as smart forum enthusiasts might be able to help me out. I would love to figure out what he does to the 722.6 autos aswell other than using ml430 internals at a guess? The website mentions v8/v12 parts so I wonder if a budget high power option would be an ml430 722.663 with the i6 bellhousing? Has anyone found a way to speak with him to get more information?

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
1995 E320 Sedan
Joined
·
491 Posts
I am very interested in what you’re doing. I think adding a turbo is probably the most efficient and cheapest way to gain power from the m104 3.2L engine. I have one my self completely stock. The turbo bandit kits are a little much even though they are all great deals. It would be much cheaper to build your own turbo kit. With custom work done by yourself or tuner shops you could save a lot. How much power are you planning to push? Also found out the auto Mercedes transmissions are superior when it comes to handling power than the manual. I have the stock 722.3 in my 95 e320.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Yeah I'm definitely gonna be tiging up my own manifolds and fab work myself. My engine will probably be far from stock haha forged rods and arp throughout with cams at a minimum. Ill probably port the head and anything else i can see as a restriction. Thats why i was asking about solid buckets for these as id wanna get a custom billet solid cam for my settup. As fpr power well record is 1200 so aim to beat that first and then see how far i can push the stock pistons? Othereise forged rods and find the block limits haha. Other good questions is witch block is the strongest? Internal webbing or external webbing versions? As for transmissi9n s yeah the autos seem pretty strong. The 722.663 was told to be the strongest on turbobandit website so im hoping to snag up a v8 663 5 speed with there valve mod and tcu kit. Should hold all the power i throw at it

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
1995 E320 Sedan
Joined
·
491 Posts
Yeah I'm definitely gonna be tiging up my own manifolds and fab work myself. My engine will probably be far from stock haha forged rods and arp throughout with cams at a minimum. Ill probably port the head and anything else i can see as a restriction. Thats why i was asking about solid buckets for these as id wanna get a custom billet solid cam for my settup. As fpr power well record is 1200 so aim to beat that first and then see how far i can push the stock pistons? Othereise forged rods and find the block limits haha. Other good questions is witch block is the strongest? Internal webbing or external webbing versions? As for transmissi9n s yeah the autos seem pretty strong. The 722.663 was told to be the strongest on turbobandit website so im hoping to snag up a v8 663 5 speed with there valve mod and tcu kit. Should hold all the power i throw at it

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
Good luck, I’m just trying to get my car to have a little power right now for cheap. All I want is 300 hp. Without doing too much, but that is also hard to obtain without rebuilding the engine. I’m just a teen and 300+ is not want I want rn. I love my car so much, just wish it was either quicker or more fuel efficient. It is a daily driver so that’s why my goal of hp is so low. I wish I could weld and do custom work but I am lacking the tools and experience. I don’t know much about the m104 other than the stock internals and a base understanding of how it functions. Can’t wait to see your progress!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Good luck, I’m just trying to get my car to have a little power right now for cheap. All I want is 300 hp. Without doing too much, but that is also hard to obtain without rebuilding the engine. I’m just a teen and 300+ is not want I want rn. I love my car so much, just wish it was either quicker or more fuel efficient. It is a daily driver so that’s why my goal of hp is so low. I wish I could weld and do custom work but I am lacking the tools and experience. I don’t know much about the m104 other than the stock internals and a base understanding of how it functions. Can’t wait to see your progress!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah cheers man. Im no expert with welding especially tig but theres only one way to learn. 300 wpuld be super easy on these motores mane 600 is max reliable with fully stock bottom end. You shouldnt need to take much of it apart at all to achieve that either. Put head studs in it and a 3mm mls head gasket and youll be set. Not sure how well your trans would take it all day everyday but youd never have to worry seting it at 300. A cheao ms3x kit along with an ebay 3582 and an om60x turbo mani will easily achieve that hp level. Only end up spending 2-3k max. What model Merc do you have man? And cheers man probably won't be the only motor i put together either as i wanna build a drift car soonish and these are my fav engine for easy power.

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
1993 300CE Cabriolet (mine) ; 1994 E320 Wagon (wife's) ; 1990 Benz 300E 2.6 (son's)
Joined
·
7,034 Posts
The more you mod the faster stuff breaks and the more expensive it gets. if you want a reliable daily driver keep it stock! If you have another car and this is strictly a track toy or weekend toy and you have a garage where can stay on stands for weeks at a time then go for it it's only money
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
The more you mod the faster stuff breaks and the more expensive it gets. if you want a reliable daily driver keep it stock! If you have another car and this is strictly a track toy or weekend toy and you have a garage where can stay on stands for weeks at a time then go for it it's only money
Not necessarily true. The more modified parts also can be designed for longevity at more demanding power levels eg better bearings and tolerances along with better materials and strength. So long as its built (and tuned!) right itll last just as normal engines. Turbo bandits m104 has lived at 1000+ daily driven for going on 10 years now. Cant argue with that for reliability in these engones along with strength.

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
1995 E320 Sedan
Joined
·
491 Posts
Yeah cheers man. Im no expert with welding especially tig but theres only one way to learn. 300 wpuld be super easy on these motores mane 600 is max reliable with fully stock bottom end. You shouldnt need to take much of it apart at all to achieve that either. Put head studs in it and a 3mm mls head gasket and youll be set. Not sure how well your trans would take it all day everyday but youd never have to worry seting it at 300. A cheao ms3x kit along with an ebay 3582 and an om60x turbo mani will easily achieve that hp level. Only end up spending 2-3k max. What model Merc do you have man? And cheers man probably won't be the only motor i put together either as i wanna build a drift car soonish and these are my fav engine for easy power.

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
I have a Mercedes E320 1995. You make it sound easy lol. Ripping that head gasket apart sounds painful. But I am liking the sound of 300 hp for about $2,000. How much hp would switching to the mega squirt add?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I have a Mercedes E320 1995. You make it sound easy lol. Ripping that head gasket apart sounds painful. But I am liking the sound of 300 hp for about $2,000. How much hp would switching to the mega squirt add?
Thats awesome man I'm considering getting one of those to replace my currently daily for a bit more fun. Headgaskets are super easy on these engines man. Just a mega squirt alone? Not too much maybe 20-30hp max above stock. But with a cheap om 606 turbo manifold and an ebay turbo and injectors you could make 300 Unopened very easy. Unopened i think you get up to 4-500 without needing a new gasket or studs.


Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
1995 E320 Sedan
Joined
·
491 Posts
Thats awesome man I'm considering getting one of those to replace my currently daily for a bit more fun. Headgaskets are super easy on these engines man. Just a mega squirt alone? Not too much maybe 20-30hp max above stock. But with a cheap om 606 turbo manifold and an ebay turbo and injectors you could make 300 Unopened very easy. Unopened i think you get up to 4-500 without needing a new gasket or studs.


Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
Dude If you could do this that would be awesome! So what you're saying is get a megasquirt, then the om606 turbo manifold, some ebay turbo kit, and fuel injectors to add? and I could get about 300hp? I think it might cost a lot more as I would need a tune too! And would I be able to continue to use 91 octane premium?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Dude If you could do this that would be awesome! So what you're saying is get a megasquirt, then the om606 turbo manifold, some ebay turbo kit, and fuel injectors to add? and I could get about 300hp? I think it might cost a lot more as I would need a tune too! And would I be able to continue to use 91 octane premium?
What would you eant me to do? And yes thats definitely achievable with those parts. A tune could add a couple hundred but there not ridiculous. Yeah 91 should be ok ideally maybe some 95 or 98 but as long as its tuned right it'll be fine. 100 bucks for mani and 400 for the turbo 6-800 for a decent diy megasquirt And 2-400 on injectors. Including a tune id say 2k mark maybe a little more for odds and ends but nothing crazy.

Edit: after a quick Google turns out you cant use the om60x diesel manifolds I'll see if there is another factory option or ebay option thats cheap.

Edit 2: you can buy a turbo manifold kit from sweeten with all the materials for 220 usd and would just need a welder to put it together for you.


Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
1993 300CE Cabriolet (mine) ; 1994 E320 Wagon (wife's) ; 1990 Benz 300E 2.6 (son's)
Joined
·
7,034 Posts
You realize, setting up a Megasquirt, or any other sort of aftermarket in ECM, that's a whole lot of tuning of your fuel-air map... It's not plug and play. The factory tune is really pretty good, 225 HP from 3.2 L normally aspirated, with decent fuel efficiency if you stay off the gofaster button, and smooth as silk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
You realize, setting up a Megasquirt, or any other sort of aftermarket in ECM, that's a whole lot of tuning of your fuel-air map... It's not plug and play. The factory tune is really pretty good, 225 HP from 3.2 L normally aspirated, with decent fuel efficiency if you stay off the gofaster button, and smooth as silk
Yeah it is i know what goes into getting standalone set up right. And also doesnt mean you cant get the same or better outcome. Lots of car manufacturers cut corners to meet emissions and many other standards rather than just going all out. Plus a standalone gives you flexibility with things normally you cant do at all.

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
1995 E320 Sedan
Joined
·
491 Posts
You realize, setting up a Megasquirt, or any other sort of aftermarket in ECM, that's a whole lot of tuning of your fuel-air map... It's not plug and play. The factory tune is really pretty good, 225 HP from 3.2 L normally aspirated, with decent fuel efficiency if you stay off the gofaster button, and smooth as silk
217 hp*


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
1995 E320 Sedan
Joined
·
491 Posts
You realize, setting up a Megasquirt, or any other sort of aftermarket in ECM, that's a whole lot of tuning of your fuel-air map... It's not plug and play. The factory tune is really pretty good, 225 HP from 3.2 L normally aspirated, with decent fuel efficiency if you stay off the gofaster button, and smooth as silk
And if you were to add more power like a turbo air intake, exhaust, etc...the stock ecu can’t be mapped, so you would be forced to go to a piggyback or standalone ecu.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
'95 E300 DIESEL, '91 600SEL, '92 600SEL
Joined
·
17,158 Posts

·
Registered
1995 E320 Sedan
Joined
·
491 Posts
Maybe yours had a few dead horses at birth, but the stock US spec E320 W124 developed 220


https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/1995/1521185/mercedes-benz_e_320.html

This is the website I use to check on specs. It says 217hp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
'95 E300 DIESEL, '91 600SEL, '92 600SEL
Joined
·
17,158 Posts
You've got a Euro car. Let's stick with Euro horsepower ratings, for the same reasons you don't use American standard wrenches on these cars.

Why can't 'Merika ever get their sh!t together when it comes to weights and measures? Cups are for bras, and pints are for beer.:D Thankfully the US healthcare industry is fully metric, but probably out of necessity to minimize malpractice lawsuits.
 
1 - 20 of 51 Posts
Top