[C_R]

Friend 1:

My friend has a 2001 E320 4matic. A while back he scored an awesome deal on a couple of dozen NON-fleece filters, even though he should be using fleece filters. However he is using M-1 0w40 and using the oil for 10K miles with non fleece filters BUT he will just change out his non fleece filters every 3000-3500 miles. He says that for what he paid for the stock of filters, he is finding it still cheaper to use 3 of his non-fleece filters than buying one fleeced filter.

I guess he isn't doing any harm? If you guys think he is doing any sort of damage (maybe getting rid of detergents or something), please let me know so I can warn him. In my opinion, I think he should be OK.

FRIEND 2: (Not really a friend but I know him)

This guy does use the fleece filters but he changes filters every 5K miles, so he goes through 2 filters for every oil change. He has a slight case of obsessive compulsive disorder (reason he is not a close friend He is annoying as hell and thinks he knows everything and knows it better than anyone and everyone else) and he doesn't trust Mercedes when it comes to being able to use that fleece filter for the whole 10K miles.

Now this got me thinking. Is this a good idea or overkill. I'm at 110K miles. Would this help keep thinks cleaner or no real benefit?

 

[Check Codes]

I think both friends are fine. As the old saying goes, "sit down, you're rocking the boat" and there is no need to rock it; keep the peace, no?

IIRC the chief reason for the fleece filter is longevity, and if #1 is changing them every 3,000 miles, that is even shorter than their original interval in the earlier engines, so he should be fine.

For friend 2, I'd figure out some way to subtly suggest that if 5,000 is good, why not 4,000, or 2,500, or heck, every 100 miles!

Okay, seriously, the fleece filter is rated for more than 10K miles (in Europe they go longer than here) so changing it early is just an exercise for the sake of sanity. Meaning, of course, that your friend #2 is slightly insane with his OCD and need to be right about everything, so this helps keep him sane and he feels like he is in control of something (albeit something that is really irrelevant). Other than wasting money and adding a bit to our landfills, he's not doing any harm, so let him go on with it. I'm sure out there somewhere is someone who doesn't change their filter as often, so it all evens out.

 

[C_R]

^^^ Thanks. Good stuff Greg

 

[Kajtek1]

changing oil at 5000 actually harm the engine. The overdose of detergents and antacids usually get balanced 1/2 way of recommended interval, what would be about 6000 miles on our cars.
Meaning the oil does the best job 6000 miles after change assuming you don't add any.
Per my experience the filters are way, way oversized for the job they do, so unless you do have some kind of sludge problem -replacing them earlier is waste of money.

 

[Kajtek1]

BTW which one of those friend change the tires when they have 6 mm of thread?

 

[Check Codes]

changing oil at 5000 actually harm the engine. The overdose of detergents and antacids usually get balanced 1/2 way of recommended interval, what would be about 6000 miles on our cars.
Meaning the oil does the best job 6000 miles after change assuming you don't add any.
Per my experience the filters are way, way oversized for the job they do, so unless you do have some kind of sludge problem -replacing them earlier is waste of money.

Just to clarify, his friend (well, his second friend) is changing the FILTER every 5K, not the oil.

That's what makes it even funnier.

 

[Plutoe]

That's a great bed time story and that's all it is-------fiber length and chemical bonding add up to media strength under very high oil pressures is a design consideration. Longevity is one of the last things we looked at for filtration media. Look at the length of a celouse fiber vs polyester or polypropylene---that equates to strength!!

 

[Kajtek1]

changing the filter is not going to harm the engine like premature oil change.
Don't know if they still do it, but years ago in Germany the filters got changed every second oil change. That was in the era when oils were changed every 15000 km and fleece filters were unknown.
With powerful suction and oil dispensers the 4 cylinder car was in the shop for about 3-5 minutes.

 

[Plutoe]

Thats great too!!

 

[Kajtek1]

Thats great too!!

I am really surprised you call great a procedure that doesn't involve Star computer?

 

[Musikmann]

Slightly off topic, but my 1991 Camry's owners manual says to change the oil every 3750 miles and the filter every 7500. Of course that was written when all we had were dino oils 20 years ago. I change both every 3000 and my last Blackstone report said the engine was wearing well.

 

[Kajtek1]

What oil do you use on it MM?
If you use high class oil, than you are harming the engine with overdose of chem pack. Try to do 5000 miles and see what the lab will tell?

 

[Check Codes]

That's a great bed time story and that's all it is-------fiber length and chemical bonding add up to media strength under very high oil pressures is a design consideration. Longevity is one of the last things we looked at for filtration media. Look at the length of a celouse fiber vs polyester or polypropylene---that equates to strength!!

Uh, strength in no small part leads to longevity, which is the whole point of the fleece filter. There are plenty of engines out there running high oil pressures that use "paper" element filters. Unless it's left in for a long time, no one is going to suffer a filter failure because the media isn't fleece.

The tradeoff in any filter media is what you let through vs. what you catch; it's also the chief reason to have a filter. Both "paper" and fleece elements do a similar job in this regard, one can just do it longer.

Or maybe your argument is that MB simply doesn't care about the venerable M119 and M104 engines as well as all of the remarkable engines that came before them? They could easily manufacture a fleece filter for them if there was a protective benefit.

 

[Kajtek1]

I still remember experience at the first oil change on gasoline W210. The wagon was pampered and in excellent condition, but the paper filter shattered in my hands when I was pulling it out from the center rod.
I was suspecting that maybe PO had it serviced by "professionals" and they let the filter stay for few oil changes, but maybe the paper was too weak for regular 13k interval.
Anyway, the paper filters work on my diesel for 13k miles just fine.

 

[Check Codes]

I still remember experience at the first oil change on gasoline W210. The wagon was pampered and in excellent condition, but the paper filter shattered in my hands when I was pulling it out from the center rod.
I was suspecting that maybe PO had it serviced by "professionals" and they let the filter stay for few oil changes, but maybe the paper was too weak for regular 13k interval.
Anyway, the paper filters work on my diesel for 13k miles just fine.

But it was still intact until you pulled on it, true? The "paper" ones do get really brittle, though.

Do you recall how the O-rings looked? Those seem to be regularly ignored by the "professionals," too.

 

[Plutoe]

It's a design issue. Sample a bunch of MB dealers and ask them how many engines have been replaced due to paper elements being used!!

 

[Plutoe]

Thank you Raymond

Let me simply clarfy my position---I will buy and recommend to buy any manufactures part that meets the OEM spec(standard). The OEM engineered the car with specific standards. I just suggest following the standards. However this is America and we have choices, lots of choices, and I am biased like all towards certain products and I know that if I do not follow the standards something will happen----what I have no idea and therefore I will not take the chance on a sub standard product. That is my point!!

 

[Kajtek1]

The OEM engineered the car with specific standards. I just suggest following the standards.

I guess you requested removing the upgraded harmonic balancer from your car and reinstalling the one that was installed in the factory and than had a recall?
Also our car manuals don't request any 20X.xx oil specification, so I might guess you are avoiding those?
Are you still using the analog cellphone that come with the car?

 

[Plutoe]

I don't agree with that!!

 

[Kajtek1]

You don't agree with your previous statement?
Or the conclusion of your statement?