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1980 LWB 280GE
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Discussion Starter #1
Top pic is the motor, all ready to go in. Bottom pic just shows where I put the EGT probe into the ehxaust manifold at the front bolt boss for the rear heat shield, and dirctly below that, the watter temp probe in the block drain plug.

Manifolds (and heat shields) are ceramic coated and valve cover is silver powder coat. Both clean up easy, which was the goal. It'll be interesting to see how the ceramics manage heat.

While I wait for the tranny stuff from the UK I think I'm going to get back after this transfer case I have sitting half apart and finish it up with new bearings in the front shafts (rear already done) and make a complete go of it all the way to the drive shafts when the time comes.

-Dave G.
 

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1986 300GD
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Looks beautiful Dave! I'm enjoying the process from afar and planning for the near future! Can't wait, actually!
Hey Dai, are you currently running those lovely injectors? I'm running B-100 and wondering if I should upgrade to the Vegject or the standard Quicksilver? Thoughts?
-Thanks, T
 

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85 300GD 83 300TD
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T, I don't know yet. I'm thinking over the same choices. The higher pressure SVO injectors may retard timing and could require a bit of pump adjustment. I'm finally working on the Veg Oil system and have a pump on the way. I'm going to get the system in and use it before I change out the injectors. I bet if you are not running SVO the Quicksilvers would be great. I contacted a local rebuilder this last week, Oregon Fuel Injection, and talked to them about rebuilding one of my sets. They set them up to higher than stock pressure (about 10 bar higher) to get a cleaner burn very similar to the Quicksilver. They said that higher pressures will retard the timing so the won't go higher than that. The cost is about the same but the local company doesn't do the trick replating. I am going to try the Colorado company because they are very familiar with the alternative fuels. I had a pump and injectors rebuilt on the Cummins powered work truck by the local company and they did a fantastic job. I am over time going to need several sets and may try a comparison of the two rebuilders. I have the tools to change them. Come on up and I'll help you install the ones you choose.

-Dai
 

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1985 300GD LWB 5 Speed
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300D turbo gebrauchafertig! (ready for use)

Nice work, Dave. I really like what you did with the exhaust/intake manifolds and cam cover. I had this opportunity a while back as I changed the manifold gasket - but it seemed (at the time) an unnecessary 'gilding of the lilly'. I did mill the manifold mounting surface to ensure a tight fit to the gasket and head, but stopped short of the ceramic treatment of the exhaust manifold. What did you do regarding the interior of the manifolds, and the cam cover, for that matter. Things get a little theoretically when smoothing the inside of the intake manifold. Some say the intake needs to remain rough to create helpful turbulance. This may only apply to nonturbo engines and be one of those old mechanic stories.

The cam cover: Did you leave the interior as is or find a unique method of cleaning. I suspect you did not powder coat the inside.(?)

The cooling hoses will last forever. It was my impression when I changed mine two years ago, that the G cooling hoses are heavier (thicker) than those on the 300D sedan.

So, do you have to dust off a bit of old Brit iron to use as a commuter while you are doing the tranplant, or do you just take a week off from the office? Best wishes. Watching attentively.

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
RE: 300D turbo gebrauchafertig! (ready for use)

Hey Thomas,

I didn't do anything to the interior of the valve cover, other than strip out the breather tube and pass everything through the parts cleaner before reassembly.

As far as the manifolds go, my machining was limited to the half inch or so right next to the gasket. I only did enough to smoothly match the head and manifolds to the gasket openings. The ceramic coating is less than 0.001" thick, so it didn't effect the surface finish of the manifolds at all. And it is fully coating both the internal and external surfaces. I found my gasket surfaces to be flat within 0.002" and not need milling, so I didn't do that either.

You're right, the valve cover paint isn't really necessary, but I always like to do a little bit of cosmetic work along the way. Just in case there is a "spirit" in that motor, I think they act better when they can take a little pride in their appearance. [:)]

I'll put new hoses on once i figure out just how they end up routing and exactly which ones I can use. These are in place right now as a guard to keep the little ones from dropping stones inside or what have you when I'm not looking. [:p]

As far as commuting goes, I'm sure it'll be Memorial Day or so before I'm ready to take the G off line. Matter of fact, I was hoping to get a bit of a head start with that long weekend. But in any case, by then it'll be warm enough that I'll be on the motorcycle every day anyway, so no worries in that regard.

-Dave G.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Injector service

Not familiar with those guys, but $250 seems like a lot of money for an injector rebuild. I use "Central Motive Power" ( http://www.centralmotivepower.com/ ) in Denver for diesel injector and pump service. They've done a good job for me so far. Check your local diesel service places. And if you like the pretty colors, you can get the same plating system they're using from Eastwood tools for $70.
http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=134&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=plating

As far as the "dedicated" veggie injectors go, I'd be real put off by not being able to use them for regular diesel. Whatever performance improvements they give on veggie would have to be pretty substantial to be a good enough trade off to elimiate the use of regular diesel. They do a lot of hand waving about timng and reduced volumes, etc. In my experience this isn't a place to go mucking about. Vague general claims like "smoother idle" and such always make me a little nervous too. And to top it all off, they just say, "let us install them" and that's supposed to make me feel better. No, for my part I'd take advantage of the fact that the MB turbodiesel is one of the best small diesels ever built, and that it's friendly to SVO right out of the box, and leave it at that by keeping it stock. If you want an injector rebuild, that can be done by folks with lots of good experience that are set up to flow test as well as just evaluate pop pressure. Anyway, just my thoughts. Not a lot of warm fuzzies from that "Quicksilver" website.

-Dave G.
 

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2000 G500 NMLE
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Electroplating

Hipine - 4/18/2005 5:23 PM

And if you like the pretty colors, you can get the same plating system they're using from Eastwood tools for $70.
NOT the same! Trust me. I've been selling and tech supporting electroplating operations for 35 years!
 

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Hey looks real nice! What a great project. Will you be able to have an a.c. compressor as well? When Mike added the turbo to my 617 the a.c. had to go to make room, but my wife is already whinning about the lack of a.c. and we're not even close to July. Would like to figure a way to have both a.c. and turbo. Although I would rather not burden the motor with the a.c., but I do like being married...
 

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1987 280 GD TURBO
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132 Posts
Dave....just wondering if you will get an acurate
reading for water temperature at the bottom of the
water jacket, temp. is usually taken in head
above combustion chambers.
Warren
 

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RE: Electroplating

DUTCH, would you have a recommendation for sending say some wheel lug bolts or other hardware like nozzle holders for replating? In the NW if possible? What type of plating would you use?

-Dai
 

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RE: Injector service

Dave, I agree with what you are saying and I will likely go with slightly elevated pressure stock injector rebuilds. I'm curious as to the cost of the rebuilder you use. In my area about $50 to $55 per injector is what it costs. I've had this service done in Portland at a Bosch/CAV approved facility and in Eugene at Oregon Fuel Injection. In the 617 there are 5 of those puppies in there. A Cummins 6 with a pump runs about $1000 installed. I run Bosch systems in vehicles and CAV in farm tractors. I'm responsible for 9 diesels at the moment an will be doing injectors for 2 to 3 MB diesels over the next year to improve fuel economy and reduce smoking. I'm open to options but often shipping wipes out some cost savings. I also don't mind paying for high quality work. Our 300TD is getting 26 to 27 mpg with over 250,000 on these injectors. It's time and with the current diesel prices the rebuild will pay for itself soon.

-Dai
 

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1982 300GD Turbo
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my 1.98 cents......injectors

Hey guys,
Dave, your engine looks great. Regarding modified injector nozzles......my wifes 300TD was getting 14.5 miles per gallon on SVO and smoking a bit more than I like. It's kind of funny (lame) having a "powered by vegetable oil" sticker on the back window and hoping that the plume of corn oil burn off trailing behind is justified. I find myself slouching in the driver seat a bit when getting passed (as opposed to the "in-your-face-I'm-driving-on-vegetable-oil grin") So, I bought some modified injectors similar to the ones Dai is speaking of and the performance shot up to 20.8 miles per gallon and actually smokes a whole lot less, or barely. Crazier yet is that when I burn regular diesel, I get about 70 miles per gallon and the car tops out at around 130 miles per hour.....its like a freekin jet! Just kidding...I'm lying about that part, seriously. I paid about $70 per nozzle before seeing the Colorado site. Durn. Rebuild costs are the same here ($50-$55). Anyway, I think the swap was worth it. I kind of wish I had run "diesel purge" through the system before doing the swap just to see what I should have been getting. 14.5 was scary. The G gets around 18 with 7000 miles on the rebuilt engine and modified injectors. Anywho, good luck with the install Dave. Keep taking pics.
Steve
 

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RE: Electroplating

Dai - 4/18/2005 10:29 PM

DUTCH, would you have a recommendation for sending say some wheel lug bolts or other hardware like nozzle holders for replating? In the NW if possible? What type of plating would you use?

-Dai
The big problem is the number of pieces you are talking about. Industrial platers do things by the hundreds of pounds. They're not set up to do re-work on a handful of parts.

Find a plater who does refurbishment work with zinc plating (not the tin-zinc as that posted hobby kit claims to do) followed by a high corrosion protection post dip - there are several options there. On the bolts, you want to be sure that they will be stress relieved by the plater; or they'll break easily with use. (Yves Chouinard found this out with one of his caribiners many years ago! The climber died.)

Nickel plating might be OK on the injectors, but is not a good choice for the bolts. They'll rust in less than a year.

Now that I've mudied the waters, good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Did you look?

DUTCH - 4/18/2005 5:44 PM
NOT the same! Trust me. I've been selling and tech supporting electroplating operations for 35 years!
...At the plating setup they're using???? Here's the link to the picture:

http://www.coloradobiodiesel.com/images/Inj5a.JPG

Clip leads, fish tank heater, dip strap, and a 5 gallon bucket. Just like Eastwood sells....

-Dave G.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Reminds me of spark plugs......

People get all excited when they pop in a new set of $10 a piece spark plugs and say, "Gosh, my performance is so much improved!" Well, what they don't tell you is that the old plugs had been in there 100k miles and ANYTHING would have been an improvement. And the .99 Autolites - or heck, their old plugs with a proper gap - would have resulted in darned near the same "miraculous" performance improvement.

I'm fully in favor of a properly maintained system. And starting from that point is the only way to make a comparison. Have some old injectors refurbished by any local diesel shop, then get a set of the "quicksilvers", then a set of the "veggie only" injectors, if that's the desired direction. Test each one for a month at a time taking note of whatever resultant variable you want to measure, fuel economy, 0-60, what have you. Then come back with numbers saying how much better one is than the other.

Like I said before, until I see something more than "they'll give you a smoother idle", I'm sticking with good old properly maintained factory stuff.

But the bottom line is, whatever works for you is the right thing to do. Glad to hear you don't have to slouch in the veggie wagon any more. [;)]

-Dave G.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Probing water temp

Well, it'll be "accurate" for that location. But I know what you're getting at and yeah, the water is warmer in the head than in the block. It's a matter of where you set your "point of concern", and it's only a matter of 10-20 degrees different. I wanted to keep the factory sensors in place in the head, and I didn't find another good place to go in to get water temp in the head. Another factor was that if I screwed something up, the drain plug is a lot cheaper to replace than the head. [:)]

But if you know of a good place to tap into the head for water temp, let me know. It's easy to change now when it's on the stand. A little tougher later when it's in the car.

Thanks!

-Dave G.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
AC with TD

I don't have plans for AC with this one (didn't have it on my 280), but Steve S. who posted elsewhere in this thread has an axial compressor on his TD. Matter of fact, you can see it in the picture of his engine to the left of his post. He might be able to help you with what compressor he has and where he got the bracketry.

-Dave G.
 

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1982 300GD Turbo
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RE: AC with TD

Here's a link with some pics of my set-up. The bracket is from the aftermarket set that mercedes put on SD's with York compressors. You should be able to find them at any junk yard. Unfortunately, you can't use a York because of the compressor position in relation to the turbo goose neck. The bottom half is in the way. This is the reason for using the axial style. With it, you're able to elevate the compressor above the goose neck. The three mods to the bracket were:1 cutting away excess material, 2 welding on some plates to accept the compressor, and 3, the addition of a stabilizer....1/4 plate welded to the back of the bracket that reaches down and uses an alternator mount bolt for extra support.
Here's a couple more pics:
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1193857&start=1&fid=30
 

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RE: Did you look?

Hipine - 4/20/2005 4:14 PM

DUTCH - 4/18/2005 5:44 PM
NOT the same! Trust me. I've been selling and tech supporting electroplating operations for 35 years!
...At the plating setup they're using???? Here's the link to the picture:

http://www.coloradobiodiesel.com/images/Inj5a.JPG

Clip leads, fish tank heater, dip strap, and a 5 gallon bucket. Just like Eastwood sells....

.
Not exactly. Eastwood is selling a brush plating kit and polish to mechanically shine up whatever they might be able to plate. Big problem will be proper surface preparation to ensure adhesion to the substrate. I wouldn't touch it with a 10 ft pole.

The setup pictured in your message is slightly better than the Eastwood kit; and, then again, only with proper surface preparation to ensure adhesion. I, personally, would avoid anything plated this way, too.
 
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