Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

41 - 58 of 58 Posts

·
Registered
'02 ML320 rattletrap at 118K miles
Joined
·
45 Posts
msulka.no-ip.org
has some pictures of the lifters, especially the three 'hammered' ones.
you'll probably have to add security exception to see the slideshow.

I am gambling on the LH side and will open it up again. and see that I probably hammered three more.
 

·
Registered
'02 ML320 rattletrap at 118K miles
Joined
·
45 Posts
LH cambridge off again. bearings look mint. rollers OK. some lifters have damage but not as bad as the old ones. I cannot figure out what is touching them. the only thing I can come up with is that some intake valves stick open just a little sometimes, not enough to run bad. i know, hard to believe that. Even then, I cannot find anything that would touch the lifters between the valve stem/spring keepers and the rockers. I blew air throug all the rockers and although not wide-open, air does flow around. the old cambridge has extra oil holes drilled in the forging that lead to the rocker tubes. the newer one from the rattley car doesn't have these holes.

I am now out of options. I will get a mini-brush and poke the holes in the head where I think the oil comes from.

bearings, mint
lobes, mint
rollers, mint
rockers, mint
oil galleys seem open. can't find what is contacting lifter sides between valve stem/keepers and rocker. even if it got sloppy loose, I cannot see anything that could touch the side of the lifter and cause the damage.

all I can do now is assume that it's not oiling the cambridge enough. however, every lifter I took back out was flooded with oil and solid, as if pumped up. before puling cam bridge, no rockers were excessively loose.

can't find anything amis.
 

·
Registered
2005 W211 E320 4matic
Joined
·
15 Posts
Hello guys :)

I have a similar noise with my 05 W211 E320 . Anyone finally solved this ? Lifters possibly ? :|

Thinking of using M1 5W50 instead of the current 5W40 ? Think that would help as this is occurring at fully warmed up engine ? :frown

@ 0x00 - can you please share with us your latest findings . Thank you in advance .
 

·
Registered
'02 ML320 rattletrap at 118K miles
Joined
·
45 Posts
Oil didn't help. I went back to mobil 1 0w-40 euro, same price as rotella t6/delo 5w-40, just 5qt jug instead of 4. $5 per qt.

I ROLLED IN ANOTHER CHAIN (I have two engines). if did NOT change the rattle. The second chain is much tighter, though. The old one had more looseness. If the chain is the rattle, its the GUIDES not the stretched (worn) chain.

I DID SPOT A BROKEN guide. it appears that about a quarter inch of the top of the RH guide is broken off. it is kind of a 2-dimensional 'knob' end on the top of the inboard RH guide that is gone. The others look OK when viewed down through the covers. However, there is no guarantee that the bottom(s) of guide(s) aren't broken/missing. To do guides, you need to pull heads and pans (pans probably don't come out unless you lift or remove engine), then weasel cover off and fix guides, chain, pulleys, etc. The balance shaft chainwheel is known to fail. The tensioner is known to fail. The guides are known to fail. The harmonic balancer is known to fail (shouldn't affect timing gear). I have no idea if the oil pump chain has issues, it runs very loose with a springy tensioner. There are mysterious rubber donut seals for coolant and oil in the cover, and it is glued on German style with precision beads of RTV in specially prescribed places.

I am NOT pulling heads/pans to do guides. I am not pulling the engine or lifting it to pull two oil pans in order to remove the timing cover. Who dreams up such bad designs? I broke the cover on my spare engine trying to get it off and that WAS ON AN ENGINE STAND--it will suck to do this in the car. Anyway, the cars just aren't worth several 10s of hours to do something like timing cover to get to plastic guides and the gears, etc. It can rattle until it dies.

I am parting out the second engine if anyone wants heads or anything else. Timing cover has a broken lug for an accessory, so that's no good. injectors, intake, sensors, hoses, everything. guides? hit me up. I got two tensioners, probably both good.

If you need to re-time the engine, you CAN do it with a long screwdriver to turn/hold the balance shaft just right while wiggling the loose chain around and getting the crank and both cams in the right position. The balance shaft will move a bit when the slack comes out of chain so you have to start maybe a tooth off so that when it tightens up it will all be right.

I sold the chain tools and spare links already. You can order the c-clip link (temp) and the 'peen' type link from AZhaus or whatever. Then get the harbor freight chain tool for $13. Then grind one of the two chain tool punch pins down to fit the chain pins (to push them out). And grind the other one with a 'V' shape using a dremel and thin wheel (and maybe a magnifier). I tightened this rig up very tight, backed up the wheel with a heavy hammer and struck the head of the tool a couple times with a light ball peen and ended up making crimps that looked just about exactly like the factory IWIS chain links: two wedge shaped peen marks per pin.

adding picture file doesn't seem to work.....
 

·
Registered
2005 W211 E320 4matic
Joined
·
15 Posts
Okay , based on your reply , i understand that you haven`t solved this yet and you are driving with the noise ? Does it gets louder with time ?

Do you also think that it`s worth to go with all these manipulations , so I possibly will cure this noise ? :frown

I really don`t know what to do next , my car`s at 160 k miles . I bought it with this noise 3000 miles ago .

What are the basic things that I should try doing ? Can you help me with that ? Thank you . :)

1. New thicker oil - 5w50 ?
2. Oil additive ?
 

·
Registered
2005 W211 E320 4matic
Joined
·
15 Posts
@ 0x00 - it will be really helpful if you share your opinion and experience on my previous comment . Thank you . :):)
 

·
Registered
'02 ML320 rattletrap at 118K miles
Joined
·
45 Posts
I said crap no one will want to hear:

Drive it til the wheels fall off.

Never get a german car.....they drive good but fix bad...they all screw up (maybe a bit less for japanese)...but 20 hours to do timing chain? at least when you are doing your third-in-a row ford Triton timing/phaser its 6 to 8 hours because the 'cover' comes off. Even ford forgot something we all learned 50 years ago but like to forget for our modern cars: how to set up a roller chain system.

Try 20W-50, even conventional, shouldn't hurt anything.....but I believe I proved it's not oil pressure related as even hot while rattling I think I measured 15psi...I think that is plenty. You could be spinning wheels if you have same problem I do.

Pop the covers and look in at the guides. That is the ONLY thing I have seen wrong in mine---a 'bit' broken off the top of RH inboard. But that doesn't mean something (guide) isn't broken in half down lower. I suspect RH outer is 'OK' because I was able to pivot it around its lower pin through the tensioner hole. But even if you find broken guides there's not much you can do because guides 'go up into' the heads requiring head pull, cover 'overlaps' heads and the second oil pan requiring at least a very-loosened pan (and a way to reseal)....

Oe more straw to grasp at: The catalytic converts are known to crack and, believe it or not, make this noise. Not likely but maybe pick car up and listed from below and inspect cats for the known cracks---I don't know where the known cracks form, never seen it personally, but it happened and I think a large fraction were fixed under warranty.

I have an extra left valve cover gasket that I put on ebay now and again. I got two lefts instead of L and R. the valve cover covers just glue on to the covers with RTV they are PCV parst but the covers get molded rubber gaskets and they dry out and leak especially after disturbing. You can reuse them a bunch but not if old and brittle.

Bottom line is I never figured it out and early on the dealer could only say 'get a new engine' when they heard it. As timeline shows it's made it a few years.

Many people have commented that 'it sounds like a Mercedes' harping back to the days of diesels. They aren't far off. I am parting out the second engine if anyone is interested. about 80K on it.
 

·
Registered
'02 ML320 rattletrap at 118K miles
Joined
·
45 Posts
OH yeah, I DO think it gets worse over time. Years ago, it didn't rattle when cold only warm. not it rattles upon any startup and continues until turned off.
 

·
Premium Member
2000 ML55 sold? 2013 ML500,? 2015 C250 estate wagon, 1927 Dodge 4 sedan, 1929 Dodge
Joined
·
4,819 Posts
0x00 you do not need to remove the heads to remove the timing cover. It is nothing like a 20 hour job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
'02 ML320 rattletrap at 118K miles
Joined
·
45 Posts
no, but you can't do guides without pulling heads. and at least loosening the pans enough to get the bottom overlap loose.
Labor only for a head gasket is $1000 or 8 hours alone....a bit more if you do both of them, and they both need to come off if you want to fix the broken guides.

The dealer usually just says pull engine and trans together (they sell more single-use fasteners at dealer rate) if you want to work on the timing gear....and put it all back when your are done. Since you'll need to drop the pans you need to separate the engine and trans (both to make it reasonable to put it on the engine stand and because the pan forms part of the flywheel housing).

The 'dealer method' results in less mental anguish, but takes just as much time as monkeying around in car with front (AC, radiator, accessory drive) off, heads off (covers, intake, etc), engine lifted, pans loose, etc.

Remember when 'timing cover' simply covered timing gear? and when 'oil pan' simply served as a sump and covered the big ends and mains? ahhhh the good old days.
 

·
Registered
2005 ML350
Joined
·
52 Posts
I read this post made earlier with some interest because my ML350 woke up the other day with exactly the same noise - did you put the seafoam in the gas tank or mix it with the engine oil?

When this started, I called my mechanic and he indicated it may be that the oil viscosity may be a bit low for the engine (0W-40 vs. 5W40 - engine has only 93k, a baby for an M112) - I plan to swap the oil out and put 5W40 in and check my filter install. However, before I do that, I thought I'd confirm the procedure....

Also, after a long chat my mechanic and I decided to throw some STP oil treatment in it to test the low viscosity theory (yeah I know - not recommended, but I plan to change the oil anyhow). The STP did help quite a bit - there is much less noise at start-up and the lifter noise goes away within a minute of start-up.

Did you add STP oil treatment into Engine oil? If so, I will do the same as I'm getting the same knocking and clicking sound as the OP video. Oh, I have oil seeps on my valve cover and in the process of swapping it out. I will perform this process if I still hear clicking and knocking sound. Thanks
 

·
Registered
'02 ML320 rattletrap at 118K miles
Joined
·
45 Posts
Had the oil pan off and found a piece of brown plastic. As suspected, this is likely a piece of a broken chain guide (see previous notes, fixing this is impracticable due to the way the engine is assembled). Everything about this rattle (it's still doing it) suggests broken inboard right hand chain guide.
 

·
Registered
2003 C320 coupe, 2000 ML320
Joined
·
725 Posts
That's sucks... I've got a little chain noise myself... Bought chain and tensioner and was going to roll it in.. But I've been putting it off because I'm scared that the new chain might break off the old chain guides.. As of the past couple of years.. really hasn't gotten any worse... Not until I get some serious chain slap..is it coming apart..
 

·
Registered
'02 ML320 rattletrap at 118K miles
Joined
·
45 Posts
I rolled in a chain and I think I failed to keep it in time. The balance shaft is the hard part. I learned from studying my spare engine that I could look down in the driver side cover and with a long screwdriver move the balance shaft a tooth at a time until I had it where it should be when chain is tight. Study this before rolling in if you choose to try this. Look down in with a light and note the notches on balance shaft chain wheel. Do this both tight and then after pulling tensioner. That way, if everything 'jumps' you'll be able to get reasonably close on the balance shaft. I don't think it matters if it's off a bit. If the cams are timed to the crank, that is important. The balancer not so much.

But it sounds like you have realized it probably won't fix it and you can spare yourself the time of making the link peener and the 'shoes' to keep the chain engaged as you roll.

Look down in the PASSENGER side cover and see if the top of the inboard guide is broken. 'Normal' has a knob on top. Broken just has a thin edge that stops without a nice, radiused top end.

You could also pull the heads and the pans, remove front cover and replace the somewhat-likely-to-break plastic guides with new ones, then reassemble. Thousands in labor for a car that, at least in my case, is worth maybe hundreds.

I guess if I were man enough, I'd do an LS swap.....

ms
 

·
Registered
2003 C320 coupe, 2000 ML320
Joined
·
725 Posts
Ya,.. I paid two grand, two years ago for my ML.. I'll do a 3/4 hr repair on it,.. but a major overhaul is out.. I'll just go out and buy another one.. Other than that,.. I love my ML
 
41 - 58 of 58 Posts
Top