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Mercedes Benz 500SEC
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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all, i came across this interesting article, about Mercedes Benz from 1983/84 till present, that mercedes and bmw actually sell their cars with 70% of the cars actual performance.

In simpler terms, A 560SEC might actually have like 350HP?, and tts with the engine's maximum output. However, with this full performance, the car may be at great risk of overheating, and many engine faults tt my surface after buying the car. Also it would be somewhat unmanageble for a 70yr old grandma to drive.

Thus they lower the cars max output rate, for safety reasons, as well as something about the emissions test. Our cars may not actually be at 70%, but mercedes benz sttugart claims that each model has its own personal safety perfomance level.

That means, that many of us, if interested, may actually be able to get much more out of our cars then we have now!

[:D]
 

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Depends on the day!
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i've always thought it fairly common knowledge that the german's performance figures are conservative..although under rating by 30%..I doubt that. My bone stock SEC w/ 120K managed 209 at the rear wheels which I was quite pleased with.

If you want to know what you car makes, don't guess..take it to a dyno and find out for sure:)

Jonathan
 

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1984 280SEL AMG
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701 Posts
To change the performance of your car, or get more bang for your buck.. Get an after market ECU from a performance company.. Only goto a reputable company, or you could spend a buncha cash not only on the new ECU, but to repair your car after the new ECU trashes it..

Good Luck on your quest for more preformance...
The Mercades is good enuff stock to take out just about anything on the road!!!
 

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Ummm..I don't even know of any company that makes aftermarket ECU's for our cars.. It's not like you can just plug a chip on as per later cars etc..


Jonathan
 

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1984 280SEL AMG
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Powerchip?? They've got an add right in the forums here.. The sell ECU's and other chipsets for our cars...



http://www.powerchipgroup.com
 

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Umm..yea, they don't make crap for any 560, just as I suspected. The ECU's on these cars are very expensive and I'll repeat myself, there is no provision for chipping these units..they are sealed.

Jonathan
 

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1990 SEC
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RE: Mercedes Sells their cars with only 70% of the cars real performance.

I prefer a conservative estimate rather than the overly optimistic ones the marketing department pushes at most car manufacturers.

I guess the worst offenders were the late 60's muscle cars where the stated engine output was in many cases overestimated by more than 100HP.

Or what SAAB did for a while; state power output for their turbo engines from a system operating at a higher pressure than the standard system.
 

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560 SEC Supercharged(sold), E55 AMG, Renntech CL600 Bi-turbo, Porsche 928
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I have over 400 hp in my SEC so maybe the potential is a little higher than that.
 

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You can get more power out of any engine by upgrading intake, exhaust, ecu, carb,emissions. But this voids your warranty. Because more power = more wear = earlier detonation. Engines are tuned down to give them a better chance at reaching the end of the warranty without problems. No car for the street leaves the factory at 100% of it's engine potential. Only race cars and engines come near this, because they care more about power than long term longevity.
 

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560SEC, 1988; 500SE, 1984; 500SL, 1983
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Basiclly AMG took advantage of this - they knew that there was more power to be unleashed from these engines and took full advantage
 

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560SL,380SL
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The design and displacement of the 560 is pretty comparable to the small block Chevrolet. The MB is limited by:

1. No "high-compression" pistons
2. No/Rare performance cams and an exotic (for it's time), touchy valvetrain
3. No performance intake manifolds
4. In the case of a 107, very limited room for mass-produceable high-performance exhaust.

It's all a matter of volume. If Edelbrock thought that there was money in it, they certainly would design a manifold; Isky, Crower, etc would design the cams.

Of all the goodies that someone could design, I'm surprised that no header manufacturer has touched the 126 or 107. Once designed, the tooling costs aren't that high, it's just another program. In the case of cams or manifolds, someone has to design ($$) and do the tooling ($$$$) for the casting or cam blank.

You would also think that pistons would be doable without a lot of tooling investment.
 

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2003 E500 Avantgarde
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Damn near every manufacturer in the world does this. Its old news.
The simple reason has nothing to do with warranties.
It is all to do with the differing quality of fuel available on world markets, and the wildly varying climatic conditions the cars operate in.
To make them safe for the worst scenario they send them from the factory with heaps of timing pulled and heaps of fuel added, but don`t tell anyone.
There is a lot to be gained from simply having your fueling and timing set up on a dyno, not only in performance gains but in fuel economy.
I realize that with a factory ECU theres a limit to what can done, but the guy who runs our local dyno is good with mechanical injection, and now that my car has its new timing gear and exhaust it will be the next spend, and I`m fully expecting it to be beneficial.
 

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1986/1990 W126
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Yup, cars, and perhaps especially these cars, need to be a whole load of different things, not just fast. Also reliable, long-lived, economical for their type and size, cope with different fuels and environments. A delicate balance of many factors really.

Its just as stated above, normally its fairly easy to mess with that and get something more approximated to your needs or wants. Bit hard with the Merc. Maybe because it was so expensive when it was newer that not many people tried, and now its older not many people would have the money or want to spend the money on it. Not enough to make it viable for anyone to be producing stuff for them anyway.

Happily i like mine as it is :)

Ps i havent been on a dyno but i had a 'Bosch tune' at a MB indie and it certainly purred after that.
 

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560SL,380SL
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A long-term (2 years from now) project I have in mind is to redo my 380SL with megasquirt, knock sensor, and a supercharger. I would really like to have a reasonably powerful car with 20MPG. It's amazing to see what a Camaro can do with a V6 in terms of power and mileage with better technology. I can't begin to approach this, but I think I can do better than MB could 30 years ago.
 

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500SL AMG, 500TE AMG, 500SEC AMG Widebody
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The design and displacement of the 560 is pretty comparable to the small block Chevrolet. The MB is limited by:

1. No "high-compression" pistons
2. No/Rare performance cams and an exotic (for it's time), touchy valvetrain
3. No performance intake manifolds
4. In the case of a 107, very limited room for mass-produceable high-performance exhaust.

It's all a matter of volume. If Edelbrock thought that there was money in it, they certainly would design a manifold; Isky, Crower, etc would design the cams.

Of all the goodies that someone could design, I'm surprised that no header manufacturer has touched the 126 or 107. Once designed, the tooling costs aren't that high, it's just another program. In the case of cams or manifolds, someone has to design ($$) and do the tooling ($$$$) for the casting or cam blank.

You would also think that pistons would be doable without a lot of tooling investment.
Performance Cams

Performance Headers

High Compression Pistons

Performance Heads

Performance Foam
 

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pistons aren't hard...we'll have a Very nice set of 100mm slugs arriving any day now for Axel's engine:)

Jono
 

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This is all great stuff and very, very appreciated, but you must certainly agree that it's a LOT more expensive than for a domestic engine or chassis. But it's just a matter of supply and demand. Tooling and setup isn't cheap, and someone needs to pay for it.

The eBay pistons are a real find, and any serious person should snap them up pronto, although I'd worry a little that even US 93 octane gas might be a little iffy without a little bit of advance tweeking - maybe the EZL resistor trick would do it.

The rings might be worth half of that!
 
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