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84 230CE & 84 300DT
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324 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have read elsewhere in the forum that since MB is no longer run by engineers and is now run by accountants, the quality now is not what it used to be when the engineers ran the company. I have noticed that the cars are not as expensive as they used to be especially when you adjust the old prices for inflation.
So my question is, when did the accountants start running the company? This will influence what year model I will consider if I plan to buy another Mercedes.
 

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Always Remembered RIP
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520 Posts
I would say the quality droped around '93. If you compare a 190E to a C180 you'll notic...

I would say the quality droped around '93. If you compare a 190E to a C180 you'll notice a huge difference in workmanship etc. Remember that it was around this time that the famous large chromed grille was replaced with the small recest type, apparently this was due to the cost of making and chroming the traditional grilles.
In 1993 the new plant in Rastrat, Germany was built with the primary focas on high production numbers and capacity. This was made possible by the site's management and staff who aimed to reduce costs and increase productivity from the offset.

And finaly consider this; Their's been one million C-classes built over the past three years compaired to half that amount (473,000) of W116 S-classes over it's entire production between 1972-1980
 

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1999 C280
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49 Posts
An Increase in production does not necessarily mean a decrease in quality. Although I do ...

An Increase in production does not necessarily mean a decrease in quality. Although I do agree thet the quality has sufered lately.

I would actually put the largest downturn in quality in the late 90's when they started with the new designs - especially the S-Class. Previous versions of the S-Class were much more reliable and better constructed.

Keep in mind though that previous versions did not have as many complex electrical parts as the newer models. The electronics are where MB really seems to struggle lately. Consumer reports has the big black circle next to several newer MB models in regards to their electrical system reliability.

On the converse, the E Class redesign of '96 was still a great car. It received good marks on reliability and performance, and was the #1 selling luxury car worldwide for many years.

I always wondered why MB didn't start to shy away from all of the vacuum controls in the 90's and switch to electronic controls & microprocessors. Now it's plain to see why they didn't do it earlier. I guess the Germans just don't do electronics as well as the Japanese.
 

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S430,190E 2.6,SL500
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194 Posts
The quality cut came firstly on the W202 C-Class in 1993. Then it was follwed by the redes...

The quality cut came firstly on the W202 C-Class in 1993. Then it was follwed by the redesigned E-Class in 1996, the S-Class in 1998, and all the other models that follwed. Even the latest SL has problems. Back in the 80's, engineers had the final say on everything. They basically ran the entire company. Now it's the accounting department that's running the company. Worst, I've heard news that materials on the latest E-Class were selected by the accountants in Detroit. There is a HUGE quality difference between my 1985 190E and my 2003 E-Class.
 

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Administratoris Emeritus
2021 SL770
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46,416 Posts
Quality

IMHO, quality took a serious dive in 1984 when the 190E and 190D were introduced in the U.S. These "economy cars" were a huge step down from the prestigious vehicles Mercedes had always been known to produce. Sadly, it's gone slowly downhill ever since...

Ron
http://germanstar.net
 

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380SL,560SEL,S600
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87 Posts
I sell the silly cars, they are skimping on materials. The '03 CL-Class uses the same leat...

I sell the silly cars, they are skimping on materials. The '03 CL-Class uses the same leather that a C-Class uses when ordered with Active-ventalated seats(aka comfort package) and not preimium nappa leather that even the S430 comes with. Most of the wood and leather steering wheels come back to be replaced, the leather is not properly stitched as these are outsourced. They have taken the alcantara suede roof liners out of the CL55 AMG, only used on the '03 E55 AMG, SL55 AMG, SL600, S600 & CL600. More plastics are being used, to lighten vehicle weight while leaving things looking purely cheap.
 

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2002 E320W4
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242 Posts
apparently, mercedes has realized this problem in germany. they are assembling a team to...

apparently, mercedes has realized this problem in germany. they are assembling a team to work on getting their image where it needs to be. they had considered selling low-priced vehicles like the v-class and smart in america. they are reconsidering. i think it is also because they are getting their suppliers to use cheaper materials to save costs. hopefully they will get this fixed or i will stick to hondas and older mercedes products.
 

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ML 500 Sport
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86 Posts
What quality?

Take time to view through the "ML" forum and see the list of recurrent problems people have had with this abomination.
 

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Administratoris Emeritus
2021 SL770
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46,416 Posts
Re: What quality?

Take time to view through the "ML" forum and see the list of recurrent problems people have had with this abomination.
Frankly, I've never seen the appeal of the ML Class. It strikes me as an awful lot of money for a minivan... And yes, the problems are becomming legendary, particularly the brakes.

Ron
http://germanstar.net
 

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Registered
84 230CE & 84 300DT
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324 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Re:

IMHO, I think the ML is the ugliest thing on the roads these days, though there is a funny looking notchback that MB makes that comes in second.
I must say that on my W123, every piece of wood trim has fallen off and has had to be re-glued. Well at least they're real wood. Sadly the A/C panel wood piece had warped to the point when I tried to straighten it, it cracked!
 

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Administratoris Emeritus
2021 SL770
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46,416 Posts
Re: Re:

IMHO, I think the ML is the ugliest thing on the roads these days, though there is a funny looking notchback that MB makes that comes in second.
I must say that on my W123, every piece of wood trim has fallen off and has had to be re-glued. Well at least they're real wood. Sadly the A/C panel wood piece had warped to the point when I tried to straighten it, it cracked!
Oh, come on now! Surely the Pontiac Aztec is the ugliest vehicle on the planet. Have you ever seen one in bright yellow? I swear you might to stone without proper eye protection.

Ron
http://germanstar.net
 

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84 230CE & 84 300DT
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324 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I forgot about those Pontiacs but I still don't think they're uglier than an ML, at least ...

I forgot about those Pontiacs but I still don't think they're uglier than an ML, at least to me.
Uglyness is in the eye of the beholder.
 

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E320
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128 Posts
Re: What quality?

Take time to view through the "ML" forum and see the list of recurrent problems people have had with this abomination.
50 ML Problems in 4 Years.

I had to return the vehicle on 20 or more occasions to Autonation (the dealer) for warranty repairs. All Mercedes is willing to offer as compensation is $1000, when purchasing a new Mercedes. Despite the many defects Mercedes Benz has not offered to repurchase the car.

The problems included a defective brake system, a defective electrical system, a defective navigation system, a defective washer system, a defective AC system, defective locks, defective trim, defective doors, windows and sunroof and a defective entertainment system.

In addition it often took 1 month to get the vehicle serviced. Often the dealer did not fix the problem on their first attempt, resulting in having to return the vehicle again for repair of the same defect.

I have attached a more detailed list of the problems below.

I get the impression that 1 out of 4 have many problems (not a formal survey).


50 Mercedes Problems in 4 Years
1. Brake system defect (pump leak)
2. Wiper motor defect
3. Door problems (latch noises)
4. Door problems (maladjusted door)
5. Command center malfunction (dead navigation system)
6. Door lock malfunction (right rear door actuator)
7. Washer reservoir leaking
8. Lamp switch defect (stop lamp)
9. Fuel filter problem
10. Door lock malfunction (gas door actuator)
11. AC problem. (AC fan speed switch knob malfunction)
12. Door lock malfunction (gas door actuator)
13. Trim problem (sunroof seal fell off)
14. Door problem (Rattle from inside left rear door - loose metal washer)
15. Trim problem (3rd brake lamp cover pops off even when re-secured
16. Trim problem (rear inside trim panel defective)
17. Window washer nozzle defective on right side
18. Command center malfunction (dead navigation system)
19. Door lock problem
20. Lamp problem (defective check engine light - right rear 02 sensor)
21. Rotor in rear changed at only 27500 miles
22. Sunroof shade problems
23. Sunroof guide clip missing
24. Sunroof shade problems
25. Trim problem (left outer seat trim cracked)
26. Sun roof frame defect
27. Seatbelt jammed (left rear)
28. Brake system defect (pad wear sensor defect)
29. Defect fuel door lock actuator
30. Rear door latch replacement
31. AC problem (system not cooling properly)
32. Sunroof motor connectors rattling
33. AC problem (blower motor rattle)
34. Window problem (switch bad)
35. Command center problem (CD changer error)
36. Window problem (clicking front left window)
37. Door lock problem (rear right/left door actuator defect)
38. Door problem (insulation inside right door damaged due to melting glue)
39. Command center problem (CD changer error)
40. Trim crack (leather on steering wheel cracked)
41. Door problem (rear right/left door actuator defect)
42. AC problems (blower rattle)
43. AC problems (clicking sounds)
44. Trim crack (cracks in duct tape on door)
45. Door problem (rear left door actuator defect)
46. Washer reservoir crack
47. Right window washer nozzle defect
48. Lock problem (front left door actuator defect)
49. Car manuals taken from my car during service
50. Power steering problem (replacement of clamp for power steering hose due to possible fluid loss at radiator)
 

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Hate to be brutally honest. These days, Mercedes just <censored>. However, since their sales figures are climbing, no one cares about the quality issue. What is everyone thinking nowaday.

Check this out
http://just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=42987&dm=yes
 

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1994 E320 Sportline
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55 Posts
I just think Mercedes Benz is no longer Mercedes Benz the premier car company, but a division of Diamler Chrystler, just another corporation. And all Corps want is profit, how do you get profit, cut on spending.

I sure hope Mercedes wakes up, i miss their old quality. I dont know if i could go any newer than my 94 E320 Sportline on a benz. I mean ya, they still produce great cars that are leading safety, technology and design wise, but its all the little things that they are messing with or not bothering with i should say. Thats what Mercerdes is supose to be famous for, the little things which really only a driver would notice.

I am sad to say, i probably wont look at a Benz for my college car, as of now I am looking at Audi and maybe BMW. And i have been inlove with Mercedes ever since i could say their name.
 
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