[peterjmdr]

My 2013, E 350 (58,000 miles) needs replacement of the left (bank 2), intake camshaft adjuster. By the way, I have already installed the recommended oil check valves in the engine block, and new chain tensioners for both banks during a prior project to address cold start engine rattle. I did not have evidence of a camshaft adjuster issue at that time. I now have a trouble code for bank 2 ( left) intake only. Trouble code is P002177. There is also a 2-3 second cold start rattle then the engine purrs like normal. Other than that there are no additional codes and the car runs great. I have seen a brief video and read two other brief forum statements that this repair can be done by front cover removal without involving the valve cover. I am planning to remove the plastic bulkhead, front cover, and vacuum pump on the rear so that I can access both ends of the camshaft.
I have concerns however.
#1: If I need more room in the rear, how difficult is it to remove the firewall insulation
#2: Is it safe to apply torque to loosen or tighten the center valve at the front while a helper applies counter-torque at the rear of the camshaft (using torx 60 bit/breaker bar). The torque spec for the center valve calls for 130 Nm, and I don’t want to risk damaging the bearing surfaces on either the intake camshaft or the valve cover.
I know the service manual calls for valve cover removal and use of lockdown bars.
I also plan to carefully mark the the existing adjuster, chain and reference point on block prior to removal, so that I can transfer the mark to the new adjuster, and accurately install and verify correct position of the new adjuster. I plan to rotate the engine at least two revolutions to confirm correct timing and double check the specified pulse wheel views (for intake and exhaust) through the position sensor windows per the service manual.
One final question: for the left bank is it easier to remove and install the chain tensioner using 40 degrees after ignition TDC vs. 40 degrees after overlap TDC?
In other words is there more slack from the rail adjuster and thus more wiggle room to get the tension either out or back in ( of course, I will compress the plunger on the tension and insert the pin to hold the plunger prior to re-installing)
Thanks in advance for your replies!

 

[jj2y]

My 2013, E 350 (58,000 miles) needs replacement of the left (bank 2), intake camshaft adjuster. By the way, I have already installed the recommended oil check valves in the engine block, and new chain tensioners for both banks during a prior project to address cold start engine rattle. I did not have evidence of a camshaft adjuster issue at that time. I now have a trouble code for bank 2 ( left) intake only. Trouble code is P002177. There is also a 2-3 second cold start rattle then the engine purrs like normal. Other than that there are no additional codes and the car runs great. I have seen a brief video and read two other brief forum statements that this repair can be done by front cover removal without involving the valve cover. I am planning to remove the plastic bulkhead, front cover, and vacuum pump on the rear so that I can access both ends of the camshaft.
I have concerns however.
#1: If I need more room in the rear, how difficult is it to remove the firewall insulation
#2: Is it safe to apply torque to loosen or tighten the center valve at the front while a helper applies counter-torque at the rear of the camshaft (using torx 60 bit/breaker bar). The torque spec for the center valve calls for 130 Nm, and I don’t want to risk damaging the bearing surfaces on either the intake camshaft or the valve cover.
I know the service manual calls for valve cover removal and use of lockdown bars.
I also plan to carefully mark the the existing adjuster, chain and reference point on block prior to removal, so that I can transfer the mark to the new adjuster, and accurately install and verify correct position of the new adjuster. I plan to rotate the engine at least two revolutions to confirm correct timing and double check the specified pulse wheel views (for intake and exhaust) through the position sensor windows per the service manual.
One final question: for the left bank is it easier to remove and install the chain tensioner using 40 degrees after ignition TDC vs. 40 degrees after overlap TDC?
In other words is there more slack from the rail adjuster and thus more wiggle room to get the tension either out or back in ( of course, I will compress the plunger on the tension and insert the pin to hold the plunger prior to re-installing)
Thanks in advance for your relies!

Hi, I need to replace exactly the same camshaft adjuster. By any chance you have something you can share on this replacement? At the end of the camshaft is the air pump so do you remove the air pump and use T60 to counter hold the camshaft? Any information is greatly appreciated.

 

[peterjmdr]

Yes, absolutely. Please see the following from WIS.
(Also note the re-installion torque on the threaded central control valve is 130 Nm)
Please understand that according to Mercedes service manual this repair is to be done with the camshaft cover off and the use of camshaft lockdown tools. Helper must apply counter torque at rear end of camshaft with torx 60 for loosening and tightening of the threaded central control valve at the front end of camshaft adjuster. However, I am planning to achieve this repair without removing the camshaft cover. With this “closed” approach the vacuum pump at the rear of the intake camshaft must be removed in order to access the female torx 60 on the rear end of the camshaft.

 

[jj2y]

Spent an hour to remove the 3 bolts for vacuum pump. There is just not enough space back there!! Now that the vacuum pump is off and I can fit a T60 in the back of the camshaft. My next step is to remove the adjuster control valve with the valve cover on, same way @peterjmdr mentioned and see if I can save some steps from WIS.

 

[peterjmdr]

Spent an hour to remove the 3 bolts for vacuum pump. There is just not enough space back there!! Now that the vacuum pump is off and I can fit a T60 in the back of the camshaft. My next step is to remove the adjuster control valve with the valve cover on, same way @peterjmdr mentioned and see if I can save some steps from WIS.

How is your progress on this project going?

 

[andynmaas_2064]

I want to know it work without open valve cover. I had same problem P002177 intake bank 2 cam adjuster. 2013 E350 4 matic 180k miles

 

[jj2y]

My T100 bit is late and will arrive next week. I’ll post back next weekend.

 

[peterjmdr]

I want to know it work without open valve cover. I had same problem P002177 intake bank 2 cam adjuster. 2013 E350 4 matic 180k miles

Yes, I’m in the middle of the project, and so far the job is going smoothly. I removed the plastic bulk head (intake) and I removed the vacuum pump at the rear of the intake camshaft, bank 2 ( left bank). I now have access to counter-hold at the rear end of the camshaft with a T60.
I have already verified that existing timing is correct using the view through the CPS windows and I have set the crankshaft at 40 degrees after TDC.
Next step will be front cover removal, marking the existing camshaft sprocket with reference marks on the head and the sprocket teeth to use as verification landmarks for timing along with transfer of these marks to the genuine Mercedes replacement sprocket. I will use a helper to counter hold the camshaft at the rear with torx 60 while I apply torque to loosen the threaded central control valve at the front of the camshaft. I will then remove the chain tensioner to allow chain slack for installing the new sprocket.There is a locating pin on the front of the camshaft to aid with alignment/correct position of the new sprocket.
Verify timing marks. Torque the control valve to 130Nm while the helper counter holds. Re- install chain tensioner and seal the front cover.
I am also replacing the o ring seal on the vacuum pump. I photographed the orientation of the internal connection of this pump to the camshaft for correct re- seating of the pump.
I’ll be replacing the six seals on the intake plenum and I will use new fasteners for the front cover. My research shows 5Nm torque for these aluminum fasteners on the front cover.
My research shows 9Nm for the chain tensioner bolts and 9 Nm for the vacuum pump bolts. I’m using genuine Mercedes sealant for the sealing of front covers. Will then re-install plastic intake, reconnect all hoses and electrical connections, and finally re-install the air filter housing and connecting clamp to complete the job. BTW, I did d/c the negative cable to the battery before starting this job because I had to remove both of the harness connections to the ECM for access. So I will re- install in reverse order. There were some miscellaneous components disconnected as needed for access such as the condensation hose connection at the firewall next to the vacuum pump and one additional harness connection next to the vacuum pump. These components blocked access to the bolts (3) holding the vacuum pump to the head.

 

[peterjmdr]

My T100 bit is late and will arrive next week. I’ll post back next weekend.

Please read my post above to andynmaas_2064 because I went into a lot of details from my research that I think will benefit your result.
Thanks.

 

[Deplore]

Good plan of attack, that should cover pretty much everything.

One thing to note, make sure its the adjuster that is the problem and not the camshaft itself. The pulse wheels on the camshaft is merely pressed in, and unfortunately it can shift and rotate freely from the actual camshaft.

I found out the hard way.....3 times.

Use ebay pictures or otherwise online pictures to verify that the pulse wheels are roughly in the same position. If so, then just replacing adjusters will fix the problem once and for all.

 

[peterjmdr]

Good plan of attack, that should cover pretty much everything.

One thing to note, make sure its the adjuster that is the problem and not the camshaft itself. The pulse wheels on the camshaft is merely pressed in, and unfortunately it can shift and rotate freely from the actual camshaft.

I found out the hard way.....3 times.

Use ebay pictures or otherwise online pictures to verify that the pulse wheels are roughly in the same position. If so, then just replacing adjusters will fix the problem once and for all.

Yes, I am aware of this fact regarding the pressed fit pulse wheels. I will double check the position of all four pulse wheels by lookin through the CPS windows with the crank at 56 degrees after TDC before I remove the sprocket. I have the pictures is my WIS manual to reference what I should be seeing when I look through each opening. After I remove the old sprocket, I suppose I can hold the camshaft with the T 60 again and check for any movement of the pulse wheel before I install the replacement sprocket. Thank you for the heads up.
Any comments are appreciated.

 

[jj2y]

Also I found a lot of carbon accumulation in my intakes at 126K. Taking time to clean those valves that are closed. Will do the others once I can rotate the engine again.

 

[andynmaas_2064]

Peterjmdr thanks for the detail. 57K miles that quite new to have camshaft adjuster problem. So you replace with VVT intake left with original. Are you using 2780503600 (3rd revision) or 2780505100 (4th revision/latest) just release few days ago?. I want to use non OEM but from germany from RM European but unfortunately all out of stock and it only cost around $200 instead of $800 for 3rd revision or $1000 for 4th revision. Mine broken after 180k miles. Also the part broken is only one of wheel at back and the pin so I may just use my original and replace only the broken part. There are mercedes remanufactured (around $500) and I think they only replace the two parts that broken. I think because yours VVT broken only at 58K miles better change all 4 solenoid which total cost $160 because you replace $800-1000 parts and it may damage because that solenoid not function properly so it lack of oil flow that shorten the life of VVT. In my case because I had 180k miles I will replace all 4 solenoids.

 

[peterjmdr]

Peterjmdr thanks for the detail. 57K miles that quite new to have camshaft adjuster problem. So you replace with VVT intake left with original. Are you using 2780503600 (3rd revision) or 2780505100 (4th revision/latest) just release few days ago?. I want to use non OEM but from germany from RM European but unfortunately all out of stock and it only cost around $200 instead of $800 for 3rd revision or $1000 for 4th revision. Mine broken after 180k miles. Also the part broken is only one of wheel at back and the pin so I may just use my original and replace only the broken part. There are mercedes remanufactured (around $500) and I think they only replace the two parts that broken. I think because yours VVT broken only at 58K miles better change all 4 solenoid which total cost $160 because you replace $800-1000 parts and it may damage because that solenoid not function properly so it lack of oil flow that shorten the life of VVT. In my case because I had 180k miles I will replace all 4 solenoids.

I am using the 3rd revision, 2780503600 but this part is refurbished from Mercedes’ Benz factory so there is an 80 added to the end of the part number. The cost was around $500, from the dealership and there was no other option available. I was told Germany stopped production of this part as well as a ton of other very common parts with no future date for production to begin again.
As far as the solenoids, I have not come across any recommendations to replace them except for an oil intrusion issue whereby oil escapes through the electrical connections and into the wire harness. I have inspected all four connections and I have no evidence of oil intrusion. I understand that sometimes this issue is so bad the oil travels all way into the ECM in which case the dealer recommends an entirely new wire harness which is an engine out repair/megabucks! I have no trouble codes pointing to the solenoids so I was not planning to replace them at 57,000.

 

[andynmaas_2064]

I think you right you only had 57k so the solenoid should still have longer life. Look at this youtube this guy only take one hour to replace camshaft and he not even hold the camshaft from rear just rely on chain. So he open the control valve before release chain tensioner. The funny thing he didn't replace the solenoid seal but just use chemical gasket. So when put back the camshaft he put chain tension then torque control valve rely on chain hold the camshaft adjuster.

 

[peterjmdr]

Yes, I’ve watched this many times before.
I’ve read one other post where the operator held the crank with a vise grip and wrench set up, then torqued the center valve. So he was using the chain to counter hold as he torqued the center valve. I know the engineers designed the camshaft with an internal torx so that one can counter hold or turn the camshaft when necessary. So I’ll put my money with the engineers design.

 

[andynmaas_2064]

This is better without holding from back of camshaft using two T100 and utilizing chain to hold.

 

[peterjmdr]

This is better without holding from back of camshaft using two T100 and utilizing chain to hold.

View attachment 2769607

Yes, I saw this video too. I think it’s the same guy.

 

[muco45]

This is better without holding from back of camshaft using two T100 and utilizing chain to hold.

it's joke ?

 

[peterjmdr]

Yes, he’s joking.