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WOW !!! I dont have that engine in mine but what a painfull kick in the balls that is. I will do my part to teach them a lesson by never buying one again. Thats the only language they understand.
 

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Well, gee, if the warranty the original purchaser paid for didn't cover it because the problem didn't occur until afterward, then that person or a subsequent purchaser can purchase an extended warranty. Those who don't are called "self-insured."

BTW if you're a good customer of your dealer and have your car regularly serviced there, etc., etc., you're a lot more likely to get some relief on the cost of this problem. If you're a used car purchaser that's never been to the dealer, probably not. Nothing the latter person has done "entitles" him/her to anything, unless of course s/he's paid for an extended warranty.

Welcome to life and the USA judicial system.
 

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That is all well and true... Legally MB doesnt have to do a thing... it will remain to be seen how much good will they show. I just cant understand how a company like MB can build an engine that is prone to a critical failure in such a short time and not step up and fix it. They shouldnt have to be made to do it. They should want to do it. I think people who pay the additional premium these cars command deserve better.
 

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Well, gee, if the warranty the original purchaser paid for didn't cover it because the problem didn't occur until afterward, then that person or a subsequent purchaser can purchase an extended warranty. Those who don't are called "self-insured."

BTW if you're a good customer of your dealer and have your car regularly serviced there, etc., etc., you're a lot more likely to get some relief on the cost of this problem. If you're a used car purchaser that's never been to the dealer, probably not. Nothing the latter person has done "entitles" him/her to anything, unless of course s/he's paid for an extended warranty.

Welcome to life and the USA judicial system.
And your unsympathetic reply begs questions to be answered. What is the purpose of this forum if your only answer is to take it to the dealer? What value is a used Mercedes if your suggestion is to buy only from a dealer? Have you ever heard of product reputation?

The pattern you seem to miss is that this is NOT an unusual occurance. It is very common and should not be. Unusual occurances are what warranties are for. The ocassional bad cam, broken piston, etc. Are rare and unusual events that do not affect a disproportionate number of vehicles. The balance shaft gear DOES. That's the difference. So, your position mirrors that of Mercedes that this is normal. Right?
 

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As a fellow owner of MB products I totally understand the owners affected by this problem.
IMHO however the court made the correct decision to throw out the law suit. Just think what the owners are asking MB to do. Compensate them for a mechanical failure that happened to a small number of cars (only a bunch has been reported around sites and if you compare them to the actual number of MLs sold per year it is a small number. ), after the warranty period has expired. They tend to fix things post warranty that are safety related to avoid future law suits. When the warranty expires then you own two things, the vehicle and the risk it may break down. We all take a chance when we keep our cars post warranty for a few years thinking the likelihood of something catastrophic happening is small. It is small but there is still a chance it will happen.

That's my 2 cents.
 

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Outstanding Contributor Always Remembered RI
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As a fellow owner of MB products I totally understand the owners affected by this problem.
IMHO however the court made the correct decision to throw out the law suit. Just think what the owners are asking MB to do. Compensate them for a mechanical failure that happened to a small number of cars (only a bunch has been reported around sites and if you compare them to the actual number of MLs sold per year it is a small number. ), after the warranty period has expired. They tend to fix things post warranty that are safety related to avoid future law suits. When the warranty expires then you own two things, the vehicle and the risk it may break down. We all take a chance when we keep our cars post warranty for a few years thinking the likelihood of something catastrophic happening is small. It is small but there is still a chance it will happen.

That's my 2 cents.
It has happened to a hell of a lot more than you think, what has been reported on this forum throughout the cars fitted with these engines is only a fraction of the number, the majority go unreported and a lot of them were done under warranty so not mentioned.

A few years back one of our workshops that I was with was doing 3/4 of these engines a week and we have 36 workshops around China, makes you think does it not?
 

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It has happened to a hell of a lot more than you think, what has been reported on this forum throughout the cars fitted with these engines is only a fraction of the number, the majority go unreported and a lot of them were done under warranty so not mentioned.

A few years back one of our workshops that I was with was doing 3/4 of these engines a week and we have 36 workshops around China, makes you think does it not?
OK I stand corrected then. It has happened to a lot of cars. Someone at MB (a bean counter) calculated the cost of providing free repairs far exceeded any damage to reputation, so they decided to not provide any goodwill service.
In that respect the number of affected vehicles must be on the low side.
 

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Outstanding Contributor Always Remembered RI
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OK I stand corrected then. It has happened to a lot of cars. Someone at MB (a bean counter) calculated the cost of providing free repairs far exceeded any damage to reputation, so they decided to not provide any goodwill service.
In that respect the number of affected vehicles must be on the low side.
Let me give you a slightly bigger pic of this;

DTB issued 23 April 2009
Order # S-B-03.30/08i
Supercedes S-B-08h dated October 24th 2008
Group 03

Affected Models;

Model 164.156/172/186/871/886

Model 171.454/456

Model 203.052/054/056/087/092

Model 204.054/056/081/987

Model 209.356/372/456/472

Model 211.056/072/087/090/256/287

Model 216.371/386

Model 219.372

Model 221.171/186

Model 230.471

Model 251.156/165

Equiped with 272 or 273 engines


Now I make that 34 models with varying years and these cars were sold around the world, so do you get the picture now?

In the early days of this problem as the balance shaft on the 272 or the sprocket gear on the 273 started to wear the cam sensor would see this and put the cel on, but the engine was still running ok.

MB in their wisdom modified the camshaft adjusters and the sensors to allow for bigger parameters, a cheap fix and the cel did not come on again but the balance shaft continued to wear. However this modification (cheating really) allowed the car to reach the end of its warranty before total failure.

Having said this quite a few did fail during warranty, but MB made a massive saving with this little mod, a mod that is well known amongst the techs.
 

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I think the issue here is one of good business practices vs the law. It was a good legal decision and to have found differently would have set huge precedents. But Mercedes' approach to a known problem smacks of a poor -- even stupid -- business sense. This is consistent with my experience with them. They seem to spend 100% of their money on engineering and pre-sale expenses and leave nothing for after-sale feel-good stuff. No wonder Lexus caught them so much by surprise. Technically, Lexus cars are no better than Mercedes -- arguably not as good -- but that company sure knows how to make its customers feel special. All I get from Mercedes is a silly glossy magazine every so often and $160/hour service costs.
 

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Outstanding Contributor Always Remembered RI
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I think the issue here is one of good business practices vs the law. It was a good legal decision and to have found differently would have set huge precedents. But Mercedes' approach to a known problem smacks of a poor -- even stupid -- business sense. This is consistent with my experience with them. They seem to spend 100% of their money on engineering and pre-sale expenses and leave nothing for after-sale feel-good stuff. No wonder Lexus caught them so much by surprise. Technically, Lexus cars are no better than Mercedes -- arguably not as good -- but that company sure knows how to make its customers feel special. All I get from Mercedes is a silly glossy magazine every so often and $160/hour service costs.
Very true. MB are always amongst the first to produce a new design with new tech fitted, alas with anything that is this new problems will arise and it is a risky business.
 

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Unusual occurances are what warranties are for.
You're mistaken.

LOTS of regularly occurring problems are covered by TSBs (DTB) and are regularly fixed under warranty. If they were "unusual" there would be no TSB.

For you to understand is that you are required to buy the first warranty and it is not free. You have prepaid for the maintenance required to fix problems.

It's simply a gamble to be self-insured. There is no promise from any manufacturer that you can expect no expense and expect no manufacturing defects. What there is instead is the ability for you to purchase insurance to cover this.

The other "gamble" you need to understand that you're taking is that when buying a Mercedes you're buying cutting edge technology, not, for example, some iron engine that's been around since 1955. If you want a refrigerator, get a Camry; if you want something closer to a Ferrari, get a Mercedes.

This, BTW, is one way that Mercedes helps you quite a bit. Since Mercedes are cutting edge and kind of like "toys," they depreciate pretty rapidly. So, you get a pretty cool car for way less than it originally cost--but, expect some of this savings to be used by purchasing a warranty or paying yourself for some significant repairs.

Mercedes are expensive cars--be sure you can afford to own one. If the "shock" of unexpected expense is uncomfortable, be sure you always own one still under warranty.
 

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I think the issue here is one of good business practices vs the law. It was a good legal decision and to have found differently would have set huge precedents. But Mercedes' approach to a known problem smacks of a poor -- even stupid -- business sense. This is consistent with my experience with them. They seem to spend 100% of their money on engineering and pre-sale expenses and leave nothing for after-sale feel-good stuff. No wonder Lexus caught them so much by surprise. Technically, Lexus cars are no better than Mercedes -- arguably not as good -- but that company sure knows how to make its customers feel special. All I get from Mercedes is a silly glossy magazine every so often and $160/hour service costs.
I also think you nailed it.
 

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I think the issue here is one of good business practices vs the law. It was a good legal decision and to have found differently would have set huge precedents. But Mercedes' approach to a known problem smacks of a poor -- even stupid -- business sense. This is consistent with my experience with them. They seem to spend 100% of their money on engineering and pre-sale expenses and leave nothing for after-sale feel-good stuff. No wonder Lexus caught them so much by surprise. Technically, Lexus cars are no better than Mercedes -- arguably not as good -- but that company sure knows how to make its customers feel special. All I get from Mercedes is a silly glossy magazine every so often and $160/hour service costs.
Some good/valid points here. I know, being actual owner of both brands. Resale value differences are clear evidence too.
 

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I disagree...If someone paid $20k instead of $50k, if they were the first owner, or future owner - in my opinion - they still would not deserve a vehicle with this particular problem.
In general terms this makes good sense. However, if I pay an extra $30k (using your above example) to purchase a "premium" vehicle, then my expectations are very high that this "premium" vehicle will perform better and last longer then if I spend $20k on a budget vehicle where my expectations would be lower. While I agree no vehicle should have problems like this, I certainly hope/pray that my higher premium vehicle that cost much more will also be much less likely to have this issue. If not, then I may as well save the big bucks and buy budget.
 

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Yep, i think you are getting it...one should definitely get more for premium vehicle. but my point is that no vehicle should have balance shaft that is engineered to wear out. true of $20k or $50k vehicle...unfortunately this level of detail is too hard for courts to work thru in my opinion.
 

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agreed.

i think too many Mercedes owners apologize for Mercedes Benz. They will never improve quality if that mentality does not change.
 
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