Ummmm....I'm sure you've considered this into the design parameters (correct?), but just bolting on headers without any attention to the exhaust valves can burn them without a cam change. How much the MB onboard computer(MAF) will compensate for the need for more fuel, I have no idea. Maybe the overall length of your headers makes them a non-scavenging type header? In a modern engine, scavenging headers can actually decease performance over the factory cast iron.Time to go left handed, haha, this is the finished product ready to bolt on "prototype". We will turn this into a production unit selling for track and off road use only w/disclaimer. The OEM emission fitting will be installed but capped off and the O2 sensor bung will be there for obvious reasons. The "one off" was expensive but we hope to have units priced in the 1K range. It will work on 3.0L 12 valve 3.0L 24 valve and 3.2L 24 valve plus all AMG version of these engines. Even the 300SEL or SE can use them. Take Care.
???????????Ummmm....I'm sure you've considered this into the design parameters (correct?), but just bolting on headers without any attention to the exhaust valves can burn them without a cam change. How much the MB onboard computer(MAF) will compensate for the need for more fuel, I have no idea. Maybe the overall length of your headers makes them a non-scavenging type header? In a modern engine, scavenging headers can actually decease performance over the factory cast iron.
Increase in HP can only come from an increase in dynamic cylinder pressure. Most headers scavenge, which creates a 'suction' or a condition of less than atmospheric pressure. Therefore, there is no way that a 'suction' can create an increase in dynamic cylinder pressure. And then there's the whole issue of back pressure and creating more or less torque etc. I question any actual HP gains, but your headers are going to give off MUCH unnecessary heat. Open hood, show 'cool' factor is high though...:thumbsup:
I'd pay way more attention to how AMG got performance out of these engines, if you want to modify.
The theory there is that scavenging headers will cause a 'lean' condition that can burn your valves in some situations as they create suction. If you notice, I didn't say "will". That's why different cams (at least on the exhaust lobes) are often recommended for many headers. It also gets more complicated with the degrees of back pressure involved in design headers, their length, going into a CAT system or open etc. It's very possible that going into a CAT system, lean burn is not an issue....that's what I was asking.???????????
"Bolting on headers without a cam change can burn the exhaust valve"...Guess one can learn something new every day...
Please explain your theory behind that...
"Increase in HP can only come from an increase in dynamic cylinder pressure."
Something else I'd like to be clued in on !!!!
So how did AMG make power in the 320CE, E34 and E36 M103 and M104 variants?
The M103-12V doesn't use a MAF as it is CIS injection.
No, actually Kevin does like headers if they are wrapped (or coated) to reduce heat AND they produce real hp gains(and torque), for $1000, not just 7-10hp. Usually when you're working on one end like the exhaust, you're also considering the other end like the intake-porting & polishing, different pistons, different cams and using turbo or supercharging to get more air & gas mix into the cylinders to "increase dynamic cylinder pressure." I wish you luck with your project and I was just simply asking some questions, not putting my neck out to be chopped off. RBYCC is usually more congenial than that...go figure.RBYCC,
Kevin doesn't like headers and that's OK, and I'm willing to follow up with the brilliant group that I developed this product with to double and/or triple check opinion like Kevin's to make sure we haven't miss something. It does propel me to new heights in the endless pursuit of performance mods. He is correct about the heat. We'll find a solution to control the heat. Trust me. BTW my pet project is building a M103/AMG, talk about expensive. $1300 in pistons $1200 in Con Rods, ouch!
It is my hope that everyone interested in my header project will offer performance enhancement ideas to compliment the header side of the equation. Headers alone are not the solution to the performance gains we all seek but merely a component to that solution. Those with expertise in the field of modern automotive technology can contribute greatly to the ultimate solution. One only needs to write their own goals in advance and then pursue that goal with passion and determination and we will all profit from it.
Thanks for sharing, and as always when productive ideas come your way we all want to hear about them.
That was my last point, thank you. Headers are just one component in a chain of modifying techniques to enhance performance. I agree that there are engineers out there quite capable of designing us bolt-ons to achieve 500hp on pump gas, if so desired on the m103/m104 engines. Of course there's always the question of cost versus practicality.
I come in here to relax, unwind, ask some questions sometimes and give some answers. I don't come in here to be put on trial, or defend the basic principles of engine performance building. I can just as easily use the search function, PM and lurk if it comes to that.
Again, best of luck in your project and I can't wait to see your results.:thumbsup: