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86' 560SEC
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124 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Farm and Environmental Lobby pushing for 15% blend.

Potential disaster for us?

Lexus had to recall a few hundred thousand cars that could not handle even the 10% blend.

Beyond frustrating
 

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1983-2007 MB's
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8,020 Posts
Time to invest into privately refined oil. As far fetched as that may be.

I always had an recurring dream over the years, myself owning a dealership and warehouses filled with exotics, domestic and imports, every imaginable derivative, muscle cars, hot rods, British cars, Japanese, all years, you name it. In 2015.

Each having a full tank of fresh/preserved gas. In an world where there is ZERO "gas" as we know it available.

Imagine the business.
 

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1985 380SE
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1,296 Posts
It's plenty harmful. Look at the studies that have been done. Not the summary findings but the actual test results. It's quite harmful to cars old and new alike.
 

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1990 560SEL
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314 Posts
Apparently 10% is ok for the majority of Mercedes built 1986 and after with a few exceptions. I've never tried, nor do I want to.

This is taken from Fünfkommasechs.de | Mercedes-Benz 560SEL

"Die überwiegende Mehrheit aller Mercedes-Benz und smart Ottomotoren ist für den Einsatz von biogenen Kraftstoffen mit einem Anteil von bis zu 10 Prozent Ethanol (E10) geeignet.

Ausnahmen sind:
- Einige Fahrzeuge im Oldtimerbereich (d.h. älter wie Baujahr 1986 - welche Baureihen im Einzelnen betroffen sind, prüfen wir derzeit und werden Sie sobald wie möglich informieren)

- Fahrzeuge, in deren Betriebsanleitung ausdrücklich die Verwendung von Super Plus Kraftstoff vorgesehen ist

- Fahrzeuge mit Ottomotoren der ersten Generation von Vierzylinder Direkteinspritzern: C 200 CGI und CLK 200 CGI der Baureihen W203 und C209
Grundsätzlich bitten wir unsere Kunden zu beachten, dass Mercedes-Benz und smart Pkw ausschließlich mit normgerechten Kraftstoffsorten (DIN oder EN Norm) betankt werden dürfen. Diese werden nach der Einführung in Deutschland an den Zapfsäulen mit folgenden Kennzeichnungen versehen: Normal E10 schwefelfrei DIN 51626-1, Super E10 schwefelfrei DIN 51626-1, Super Plus E5 (DIN EN 228) DIN 51626-2. Kraftstoffe, die die europäische EN-Norm erfüllen, sind für Normal, Super und Super Plus Kraftstoff mit EN228 gekennzeichnet.
Mit freundlichen Grüssen/Kind regardsThorsten Grüninger

Daimler AG
Mercedes-Benz Cars
Brand Communications Classic
Mercedes-Benz Classic Center
000/R051 BC/FC
70546 Stuttgart"
 

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1985 380SE
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That's the official party line. All car companies are saying it, but start looking at the tests, and I mean the tests themselves not the summaries. The summaries have all been loaded because guess who does the tests. But look at the tests themselves and you see that even when they stack ethanol blended gas against a gas substitute that is 50% toulene, the ethanol stuff still comes up with more corrosion, fuel pumps being wiped out, hoses failing, it goes on and on. It's not that the cars can't last on e10, it's just that
you get worse MPG
it's worse for the environment
and things don't last as long.
 

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1983-2007 MB's
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That totally sucks if I'm going to have to slowly degenerate my engine while unbeknownst to me through the gas I'm purchasing to run the car.

F*@% THAT!
 

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1985 380SE
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1,296 Posts
That totally sucks if I'm going to have to slowly degenerate my engine while unbeknownst to me through the gas I'm purchasing to run the car.

F*@% THAT!
Your engine itself will be ok, just richen the mixture a bit to avoid pinging. The things that you will have to replace more often are things like the fuel pump, hoses, and anything with the word seal in it.

Also, it depends on what these gas tanks are made of but in some cases those are having reduced lifespans as well.

Oh, and it's bad for your cats too.

The EPA is starting to take comments on the application for a waiver (waiver meaning to allow them to go above e10 to e15). It either started today or starts Monday, I'm not sure. At any rate here's the info you need to comment on it http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/additive/e15-increase.pdf We have 30 days.

EDIT: Actually, looks like there won't be an official entry into the federal register until next wednesday, so that will be when the comment period starts. At any rate, that pdf gives you the info you need. Tell them no you don't want reduced mpg and increased emissions (things the EPA might actually be sympathetic to).
 

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1990 560 SEC(gone but not forgoten) 1988 560SL 1998 E320 4matic wagon
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258 Posts
If you think its bad in cars you should see what it does to boats. It's a solvent that after time will dissolve anything. It ate thru my fiberglass fuel tank. I drained the fuel couldn't find anywhere to dispose of it so I ran it thru my old Ford pickup. Bad move the valves siezed in the guides when all the crap that the ethanol disolved plated out on the valves.
If you think your steel or alluminum tanks are safe, ethanol absorbes water come out of solution lays in the bottom of the tank and will rot it out. O and by the way when it comes out of solution there is no longer any anti knock agent in the fuel (it initialy was the replacement for MTBE). Nice huh? In fact it may not even support combustion.
This is the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on us. Not to mention the soaring food costs.
I hear their working on clunker legislation to get all those bad old cars off the road. Ethanol may be part of the plan. Ruin the cars to get them off the road.Then force us to buy a piece of crap we don't want.
 

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1990 560 SEC(gone but not forgoten) 1988 560SL 1998 E320 4matic wagon
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258 Posts
Great article. If more people looked beyond the hype. They wouldn't get away with this stuff. I always thought that the global warming crisis was solved when they banned freon 12.
 

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560SL,380SL
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Ain't gonna happen.

Pitchforks will be sharpened after cars and houses start buning down from hoses in older cars disintegrating and leaking what passes for gasoline these days all over the place. That is, of course, if it is still actually flammable.
 

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Great article. If more people looked beyond the hype. They wouldn't get away with this stuff. I always thought that the global warming crisis was solved when they banned freon 12.

Yeah, but that did nothing for the climate change crisis...we are always in a crisis. We have always been in a crisis. We have always been at war with Eastasia. We h$#%

NO CARRIER
 

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1983-2007 MB's
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8,020 Posts
*rimshot*

IF this propagates, there needs to be a watchdog organization out there keeping an eye for thoe enthusiasts driving their classic cars unbeknownst to the liquid poison being sold to them.

Ain't gonna happen.

Pitchforks will be sharpened after cars and houses start buning down from hoses in older cars disintegrating and leaking what passes for gasoline these days all over the place. That is, of course, if it is still actually flammable.
 

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1990 560 SEC(gone but not forgoten) 1988 560SL 1998 E320 4matic wagon
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258 Posts
Now that Freon 12 went off patent (oops I mean banned) the ozone hole should be closed. Thank goodness Dupont had R134a patented and ready to go.

I keep tapping these ruby slippers together and nothing happens!
 

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1982 280 se aut. ecc. - sold
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1,607 Posts
Now that Freon 12 went off patent (oops I mean banned) the ozone hole should be closed. Thank goodness Dupont had R134a patented and ready to go.

I keep tapping these ruby slippers together and nothing happens!
The worst hole in the ozonlayer was over OZ.......;)

gr J:D
 

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1990 560 SEC(gone but not forgoten) 1988 560SL 1998 E320 4matic wagon
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258 Posts
When they start feeding us soylent green we'd better wake up!
 
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