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1990 560SEL, 1986 190e 2.3-16V, 1997 SL 600, 2013 S63
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Agree with all the responses. A lot of people have thought this through, and some have put their ideas to test.
There is no right or wrong answer.
I think it comes down to scaling one good idea.
The carobu stage 2 package is 30-32 K.
But what if they got an order of 10 or 20 cars?
Question however remains, are 20 enthusiasts willing to pay 20 K? Are 40 willing to pay 15K ?
etc.
 

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1990 560SEL, 1986 190e 2.3-16V, 1997 SL 600, 2013 S63
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What is the Torque rating for option code 822 engine compared to the “ standard” 560 US spec. Engine?
 

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'91 560SEC, '98 SL500
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Carobu is a very small shop, they do not have the capacity for 10 cars let alone 20. Plus they have other obligations in the Ferrari, racing world, other customers etc.

The M119 is not worth the effort or cost over a M117. A US spec M117 with a well designed exhaust, smog removed, clutch fan removed etc will bump you to 265hp and 300 torque, which not far off a M119 (322hp, 330 torque), plus performance parts for a M119 engine do not exist, even when they were new, choices were very limited.
 

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The numbers quoted for the M119 as "not far off" are more closely "not far off" the 30k upgraded M117 from Carabu. Their corrected output is 350hp. A transplant of a M119 provided one has a donor car would not cost as much... but why not just buy a W140??
 

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1990 560SEL, 1986 190e 2.3-16V, 1997 SL 600, 2013 S63
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The numbers quoted for the M119 as "not far off" are more closely "not far off" the 30k upgraded M117 from Carabu. Their corrected output is 350hp. A transplant of a M119 provided one has a donor car would not cost as much... but why not just buy a W140??
if the sole purpose is to have more performance than why get a w140? Why not a more modern AMG.
In my opinion, W126 is the “ coolest S of the bunch”, it happens to be the slowest of the bunch. 😬
 

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if the sole purpose is to have more performance than why get a w140? Why not a more modern AMG.
In my opinion, W126 is the “ coolest S of the bunch”, it happens to be the slowest of the bunch. 😬
I couldn't agree more. I think I said that here on another thread- at some point what are you looking for? An S55 will run circles around most cars period.
 

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There is virtually no market for such upgrades, I inquired a few years ago to get Tri-Y headers made for 400/500$ and barely mustered the interest of 2.

Anyone thinking there are people willing to spend 20/30K on an M117 engine is simply fantasizing.

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1990 560SEL, 1986 190e 2.3-16V, 1997 SL 600, 2013 S63
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I couldn't agree more. I think I said that here on another thread- at some point what are you looking for? An S55 will run circles around most cars period.
In a perfect world...... the performance of having 500 torque in w126 body
 

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1990 560SEL, 1986 190e 2.3-16V, 1997 SL 600, 2013 S63
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There is virtually no market for such upgrades, I inquired a few years ago to get Tri-Y headers made for 400/500$ and barely mustered the interest of 2.

Anyone thinking there are people willing to spend 20/30K on an M117 engine is simply fantasizing.

Sent from my MAR-LX1M using Tapatalk
Even if there are 2 people interested, that is better than one. I’m looking for, a group of 4-5. We need a Henry Ford for the M117 engine.
 

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1999 500SL, 1988 SEC
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Well I understand why people transplant LS engines. When you take out the ”wish to remain stock” and think rationally, and if there were a kit, which would be a plug and play you could get-a lot more ponies, more efficient and more up to date for a lot less money. $1600 for a set of cams just isn’t going to cut-it for most if not all of us. I howeveram not going down that road at my age.
 

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There’s about 20-30 guys worldwide willing to drop $30-50k improving the performance of these w126 cars to 350-400hp.

if the price could be brought down to 5-8k your get a few hundred buyers . Still a small number
 

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1990 560SEL, 1986 190e 2.3-16V, 1997 SL 600, 2013 S63
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Another question for the group, has any one owned or driven an option code 822 car. Is the improvement in engine performance noticeably different compared to a US market 560 SEL?
 

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1990 SEC
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Another question for the group, has any one owned or driven an option code 822 car. Is the improvement in engine performance noticeably different compared to a US market 560 SEL?
Yes, I have driven European 560 SEL's with the 822 300 HP engine. They are quite different from the US version, not just because of the added power, but also because the differential is 2.65 vs. the US 2.42 and they start in first gear without having to engage the kick-down switch or use the gear lever.

So quite a bit more GO, quite a bit more punch, but it's still a 30+ year-old vehicle that a high-end Camry would run rings around.

Not a fair comparison and not a trade I would make, just to keep things in perspective.
 
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1990 560SEL, 1986 190e 2.3-16V, 1997 SL 600, 2013 S63
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Yes, I have driven European 560 SEL's with the 822 300 HP engine. They are quite different from the US version, not just because of the added power, but also because the differential is 2.65 vs. the US 2.42 and they start in first gear without having to engage the kick-down switch or use the gear lever.

So quite a bit more GO, quite a bit more punch, but it's still a 30+ year-old vehicle that a high-end Camry would run rings around.

Not a fair comparison and not a trade I would make, just to keep things in perspective.
Right, and I don’t think anyone expects a 30 year old car with 40 year old technology to outdo, a brand new car.
Just trying to compare the carobu stage 2 package to a option 822 car.
Carobu would be newly rebuilt everything, vs a 822 car would be a factory setup albeit 30 years old.
 

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Another question for the group, has any one owned or driven an option code 822 car. Is the improvement in engine performance noticeably different compared to a US market 560 SEL?
I had the 560 SL Euro version with 279HP and previous to that the Euro low compression engine with 242 HP - the difference is not really perceivable, I do remember there the 242 seems to have higher fuel consumption.

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87 Euro500HVSEC. 88 Euro 560HVSEC. 89 Euro 560HVSEL
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Discussion Starter · #156 ·
My 89 Euro 300hp 560SEL is very punchy for a big car - no slouch at all from either standing start or if booted at say 80-100kmh it drops back and snaps hard (2.65LSD standard)
Fully refurbed heads
Compression good
Custom modified air cleaner - for more flow (same as AMG did but hump re-designed for 360' airflow)
Tri-Ys were standard - but all custom back and no cats (much better axhaust flow for sure)
It helps having new injectors and being properly tuned as these M117's do not have any duty cycle as no O2 sensors
I don't know what it is but this big Cat is definately fun to drive for sure
I reckon if i fitted a centrifugal supercharger on low boost (say 5-8 psi) it would give the same result as a big budget engine build.

In saying that i am doing a 6litre M117 build for my black Euro 300hp 560 coupe and don't like to think about the cash thrown at that so far on another spare 300hp engine that i have stripped down for the project-
Carobu - forged pistons 100mm 10.5:1 comp
Block has been bored to 100mm (matched to pistons that were supplied before block work started)
Crank checked and polished and re-balanced
Heads fully worked (ported and custom Ferrea intake valves installed - these were back-cut like AMG did) - my engine shop did all the work
Custom Cometic head gaskets
All this work has been done and ready to assemble ( i am gapping the rings and putting the engine back together)
However i still pondering and scratching my head on a custom intake as that is the sticking point as we all know
I would like to come up with something less restrictive and that requires custom fabricating and that is where i am stuck at right now and have been for a while
I even own a decent tig welder and plasma cutter - so not as if i don't have the tools to fabricate something
The MB intake is just too restrictive in the plenum chamber and its design - even what carobu did is still not freeing up the true potential
You do still need their custom cams though for more lift than the 300hp version
This pic below inspires me even though it would require a vacuum tank to do all the vac duties
62979153-770-0@2X.jpg
 
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