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87 Euro500HVSEC. 88 Euro 560HVSEC. 89 Euro 560HVSEL
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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
The MB 300hp cams i am pretty sure the small stock they were carrying in Germany have gone. I know one side (left i think) ran out first. You would have to check via a dealer.
Carobu have plans to design a custom cam for these engines once they have completed all their R&D work. Then offer them as part of their custom performance product line in the future.
Carobu purchased a stock US Spec Gen2 560SEC (US 9.1comp engine) so they could start with a factory spec baseline for this engine and then work up from there trying various mods.
All they did to their engine was pull the heads and fit new valve guides (as they were worn) and usual tidy-up of the heads in factory spec.

If you read the thread from the start - they have played with exhausts and then swapped in the Euro cams and now trying to improve the 560 intake design.
The factory KE-Jet is all retained but they have added some custom mods to be able to have control over AFR so they don't lean the engine out in testing.

At this stage now they are trying to come up with improvement in the flow of the 560 intake plenum whilst retaining the KE-Jet system.
The 560 plenum in its current form is an air-flow restriction in the higher rev band.
Moving away from the factory system to a custom built intake is expensive and same for converting to EFI in the process - so this exercise is to see if the 560 plenum design can be improved on with fabrication work
 

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Any updates on the engine?

I'm still surprised no one has come out with a low cost "tri-y" header, I recall a forum member tried to commercialize them, but I believe they were relatively expensive, and probably also the reason for the lack in interest.



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87 Euro500HVSEC. 88 Euro 560HVSEC. 89 Euro 560HVSEL
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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
They have managed to modify the plenum and are now testing it to see what gains they have made - stay tuned

No cheap way of making decent quality tri-y headers - even Magnaflow Mufflers who 3d scanned the AMG version into their CAD system for the TV show on the AMG WB tribute build would not produce any further sets for the public to buy afterwards.
Elbe Engineering is your best option for s/steel set (as per on the Carobu dyno engine now)
 

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1983-2007 MB's
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6/24/19 Carobu update:

We have been working hard to modify the intake manifold to work with the stock throttle body location. After some fabrication and internal modifications to the manifold, we did some preliminary tests. In these tests, the cam is still on the advanced setting so the comparison graph is apples to apples. Again, this is a stock USA version engine with 9:1 compression ratio, 300HP cam and tubular headers.

Dyno test results with the cam in the advanced position and the fuel/spark optimized. It is starting to look interesting.

Here is the overlay of the stock manifold and the modified one. We made an additional 20 HP on the top end and more torque throughout the range. You can see how starved the engine is for air flow.
 

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R.I.P. Never Forgotten
1983-2007 MB's
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Carobu quote:

We are in the process of putting together pricing. Besides the the exhaust manifolds, we will offer replica AMG muffler systems for the SL and the SEC/SEL. Camshafts, intake manifold, pistons and fuel/ignition controls will be part of it too. Internally, we are debating about whether to offer the engine parts separately or only as part of an in-house package. At this stage we would want to be in control of the result before sending parts out around the world with no control over the outcome.
 

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I hope they offer it in pieces. Some of us already have tri-y’s etc and can not afford the whole enchilada. My guess is they will get more sales that way. Manifold would be high on my list. Wonder what it will do to the fdu unit and settings though
 

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I had the ECE cams profiled and I can reproduce them if needed.
 
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@bondavi David, have you been building this engine?

Or @KRH Kim is it you?
 

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They are 24/25's
 

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@bondavi David, have you been building this engine?

Or @KRH Kim is it you?


As stated in post 1 of this thread, it is Carobu Engineering in Southern California. I provided Tate at Carobu the first D-jet intake that he extended and installed in Mark Pearson’s 560sl (which apparently Blue Ridge had botched up). Pearson sent the car to Carobu to provide real proven gains. Carobu is now refining the process, and providing real scientific data. The thread is worth a read if you care.


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Ah, okay.

Apparently Blue Ridge has botched several motors!
 

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6/27 Carobu update:

We have done some additional tuning on the 560 engine. Today we concentrated on the air filter housing. We went back to our modified lower (duct tape version) and bumped up the lid itself just above the intake inlet. Also, we tried a single snorkel housing to see how much power that cut out.


Dyno 1: Stock 560SL single snorkel air filter. This dyno graph is our current 560 engine evolution (ECE cams, Elbe Headers, modified intake and fuel/ignition controls). Compared to the dual snorkel air box, this is a considerable loss.

Dyno 2: This graph is our engine with the previously mentioned mods and the stock dual snorkel air filter housing (it has been tuned up slightly since our previous test). Note the power difference between the two air filter housings! 25 HP and 25 on the torque. If you have a 560 SL, you definitely need to replace the single snorkel air filter housing.
While this isn't news that the dual snorkel is better, it is certainly a shock to see how much power it is robbing.

Dyno 3: This graph shows the result of modifying the air filter housing and lid. The engine definitely likes it.
The improvement was approximately split between the two modifications. We did the individual testing; stock lower/mod lid, stock lid/mod lower, but decided the two together was more interesting.
Currently, we are breaking the 300 HP mark with the 9:1 compression ratio engine and stock heads.
We will have the overlay graphs on our next posting.

On the air filter housing lid, we bumped up the section directly over the intake section to the CIS. In the photo, you can see the stock verses modified lids.

For review purposes, this is how we modified the lower air filter housing a while back. When the power levels were lower (before intake manifold mod), it wasn't the restriction. This allows more air from behind the fuel distributor clearance bump.
 

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Very interesting, this is getting close to the power levels of a M119.

The AMG cars of the time I recall all kept the same exact air filter housing, this would mean they were all restricted - seems you gentlemen are doing a more thorough job.


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6/27 Carobu update:

We have done some additional tuning on the 560 engine. Today we concentrated on the air filter housing. We went back to our modified lower (duct tape version) and bumped up the lid itself just above the intake inlet. Also, we tried a single snorkel housing to see how much power that cut out.


Dyno 1: Stock 560SL single snorkel air filter. This dyno graph is our current 560 engine evolution (ECE cams, Elbe Headers, modified intake and fuel/ignition controls). Compared to the dual snorkel air box, this is a considerable loss.

Dyno 2: This graph is our engine with the previously mentioned mods and the stock dual snorkel air filter housing (it has been tuned up slightly since our previous test). Note the power difference between the two air filter housings! 25 HP and 25 on the torque. If you have a 560 SL, you definitely need to replace the single snorkel air filter housing.
While this isn't news that the dual snorkel is better, it is certainly a shock to see how much power it is robbing.

Dyno 3: This graph shows the result of modifying the air filter housing and lid. The engine definitely likes it.
The improvement was approximately split between the two modifications. We did the individual testing; stock lower/mod lid, stock lid/mod lower, but decided the two together was more interesting.
Currently, we are breaking the 300 HP mark with the 9:1 compression ratio engine and stock heads.
We will have the overlay graphs on our next posting.

On the air filter housing lid, we bumped up the section directly over the intake section to the CIS. In the photo, you can see the stock verses modified lids.

For review purposes, this is how we modified the lower air filter housing a while back. When the power levels were lower (before intake manifold mod), it wasn't the restriction. This allows more air from behind the fuel distributor clearance bump.

Is it feasible for us to modify our filter housings like this, and any stats on the clearance that section was raised? Is the filter affected by air coming in from behind?
 

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6/27 Carobu update:

We have done some additional tuning on the 560 engine. Today we concentrated on the air filter housing. We went back to our modified lower (duct tape version) and bumped up the lid itself just above the intake inlet. Also, we tried a single snorkel housing to see how much power that cut out.


Dyno 1: Stock 560SL single snorkel air filter. This dyno graph is our current 560 engine evolution (ECE cams, Elbe Headers, modified intake and fuel/ignition controls). Compared to the dual snorkel air box, this is a considerable loss.

Dyno 2: This graph is our engine with the previously mentioned mods and the stock dual snorkel air filter housing (it has been tuned up slightly since our previous test). Note the power difference between the two air filter housings! 25 HP and 25 on the torque. If you have a 560 SL, you definitely need to replace the single snorkel air filter housing.
While this isn't news that the dual snorkel is better, it is certainly a shock to see how much power it is robbing.

Dyno 3: This graph shows the result of modifying the air filter housing and lid. The engine definitely likes it.
The improvement was approximately split between the two modifications. We did the individual testing; stock lower/mod lid, stock lid/mod lower, but decided the two together was more interesting.
Currently, we are breaking the 300 HP mark with the 9:1 compression ratio engine and stock heads.
We will have the overlay graphs on our next posting.

On the air filter housing lid, we bumped up the section directly over the intake section to the CIS. In the photo, you can see the stock verses modified lids.

For review purposes, this is how we modified the lower air filter housing a while back. When the power levels were lower (before intake manifold mod), it wasn't the restriction. This allows more air from behind the fuel distributor clearance bump.
What is the purpose of the duct tape?

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87 Euro500HVSEC. 88 Euro 560HVSEC. 89 Euro 560HVSEL
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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
Airflow improvement was gained by cutting away the alloy hump on each side that sits over the fuel distributor and the injector lines.
They would have cut open each side and used duct tape to to seal the gaping hole.
The duct would be a reference point (getting in as close as they can to the injector lines and make up some replacement alloy sheet, but this time to shape it in line with the duct tape before patching it in to create more room for air-flow in that rear section.

The other mod to raise the front inner portion of the alloy lid above the air-plate is going to mess up your lid as to aesthetics unfortunately as it needs to be hammered out

or perhaps that section needs cutting out altogether and something different moulded in? Requires some thought to come up with a neat result
 

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