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500E many W124 Wagon and R129 500s
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384 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
hi 1991 500sl - i have fitted a k1 spring kit, to elimate bad flare from 2-3 rd gear.,

1. it has transformed auto box superb shifts and couldnt get it to flare no matter how hard tried BUT .....

2. parked it up overnight -next day when cold and stood - problem is back but not so bad -when taken for a run and warm the box is superb let it stand and it goes back to orignal fault ??:confused::confused::confused:

i can guarantee when "nursed for a bit and be very gentle" the fault goes away i have checked level at hot and is ok.

cheers alan:confused:
 

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1996 SL320
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285 Posts
k-1 kit

Good day, I also had the same problem and purchased the K-1 kit, no change. I purchased for my '96 some mobil 1 synthetic dexron III transmission fuid and the problem was cured. The shifting is operating perfectly to this day.
 

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SL55, 300SE, GL450, Daytona 955i
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10,293 Posts
first and formost, make sure the fluid is at the correct level after you dropped the pan yesterday... wrong level can cause low pressure at the K1 clutch, and cause slip..

as you know, the fluid level drop when the tranny is up to the operation temp, because the fluid get distribued properly in the toque converter...

so make sure you measure the fluid level according to the manual's instructions, drive the car to normal operation temp (80degree or more), then idle it for 5 min, then check the level with the depstick.

next, the shift kit comes with different springs, I think there are 3 options for both K1 and K2. the issue is, if your car has been slipping for a while, you may have washed the clutch friction faces, to the point where even if you restore the OEM tention of the K1 clutch accumulator spring (aka K1 spring) you may come short, and need more pressure for the K1 not to slip, thus, you may want to try the higher rate K1 spring in that kit...

ALSO, was your original spring broken or damaged? if not, it may be a just plain tired tranny with worn K1... for that, I typically believe it is a better idea to use the OEM kit as soon as the problem happens, so you can rule out if the problem is caused by K1 itself, or the K1 accumulator spring...

If the K1 is determined to be the cause, a tranny shop can play with the working pressure and modulation pressure of your tranny and make the K1 better engage, but thats just a temporary patch fix, before the K1 is completely dead and needs repaired...
next,
 

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500E many W124 Wagon and R129 500s
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384 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
many thanks for that superb precise info !:bowdown:

i didnt know the k1 kit from mb had varying spring rates so just ordered the part number thats always quoted on the forum.

also i checked the fluid when job was done and the shop had overfilled by approx half pint ,
so drained out and re checked when hot .BUT did not wait for 5 mins as you suggest.

i will try that as the fluid was slightly high -about 3-4 millimetres over the hot mark on the dipstick

also the new fluid was dirty brown even though new in by 24 hours.

many thanks for your advice chaps :thumbsup:

al
 

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500E many W124 Wagon and R129 500s
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384 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
PS -the k1 springs were ok - the end of the white plunger valve was brownish in colour and looked a little rounded on the edges,other than that seemed ok.

al
 

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Registered
1992 SL300-24, 1998 BMW 750iL
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701 Posts
can someone shed light on this K1 springs...its the first i hear of it and the search function hasn't been helpful
 

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SL55, 300SE, GL450, Daytona 955i
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1992 SL300-24, 1998 BMW 750iL
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701 Posts
so what would this do? help faster shifts from 2nd to 3rd? or prevent a slippage?
im sorry, this is the first time i hear of this
 

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SL55, 300SE, GL450, Daytona 955i
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10,293 Posts
no performance gain... if you have slippage in the 2nd-3rd gear shift*, use it... otherwise, no need for it...


*First shift to occur when rolling from a stop at partial throttle, since the car starts in 2nd gear
 

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500E many W124 Wagon and R129 500s
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384 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
hi again ,

what i will try is give the car a few days and a long motorway journey to let everything bed in ...then check oil level after standing running hot for 5 mins as you suggested.may need a small amount out.

if persists then will go to shop and have modulator and vacum pressures checked out.

may take a while for face of new k1 valve to bed in ?

only happens when very cold morning ( -2 deg to -5 deg in uk today)

will post up outcome

al:)
 

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2007 CLS 550, 1998 Harley Road King, 2011 F-150 EcoBoost, '65 Shelby Cobra
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978 Posts
My K1 kit eliminated the 2-3 gear flare during normal operating temperatures. However, even here in So. Cal., it will flare on first shift, cold. I just know it is going to happen, so I take it nice and easy out of the driveway and up the street. From then on all is well.
 

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Outstanding Contributor
1997 SL600 Brilliant Silver Sport with grey/dark metal interior, 234K miles
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1,977 Posts
Ahhh, the coming of winter and transmission flaring, thy name is 722.

Does the 722.6 (for my car, '97 SL600) have the K1/K2 spring combo or is it all electronic?
 

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Outstanding Contributor
1997 SL600 Brilliant Silver Sport with grey/dark metal interior, 234K miles
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1,977 Posts

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9,274 Posts
hi again ,

what i will try is give the car a few days and a long motorway journey to let everything bed in ...then check oil level after standing running hot for 5 mins as you suggested.may need a small amount out.

if persists then will go to shop and have modulator and vacum pressures checked out.

may take a while for face of new k1 valve to bed in ?

only happens when very cold morning ( -2 deg to -5 deg in uk today)

will post up outcome

al:)
You arent just talking about the normal MB trans warm up are you? The 722.3 will not shift until it warms up when first taking off. That is normal and it is supposed to do that.
 

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500E many W124 Wagon and R129 500s
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384 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
hi alchemy -not unless losing drive and screaming revs are factory standard :)
ha ha

no its agravated by the cold as seems to be the case in many posts .

only time will tell ! :thumbsup:
 

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hi alchemy -not unless losing drive and screaming revs are factory standard :)
ha ha

no its agravated by the cold as seems to be the case in many posts .

only time will tell ! :thumbsup:
That sucks. Sounds like you originally had a two fold problem. My first thought is fluid flow not necessarily overall flow but maybe there is debri somewhere. I assume you didnt have much metal dust in the pan when you changed the ATF and filter.
 

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500E many W124 Wagon and R129 500s
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384 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
hi alchemy ,

i suspect you are right on the 2 fault diagnosis - i didnt see the first lot of oil etc in the pan as the guy whos ramp i used dropped the pan off,he said it was clear enough on the filter etc,but the oil turned very dirty borwn when let some out 24hrs later.

the shifts are fabulous ,like a new transmission ,when it doesnt flare.

so i am certain the first fault was 100% cured by the k1 kit ,and once the car has had a good run out when snow and ice clear i think the fluid may be a few millimetres up about the hot mark on the stick -if thats the case i will drain a small amount off and hopefully make cure fault 2.

many many thanks to all who offered advice - i will post up once resolved

happy xmas and a prosperous new year !!!

al :thumbsup:
 

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Premium Member
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9,274 Posts
hi alchemy ,

i suspect you are right on the 2 fault diagnosis - i didnt see the first lot of oil etc in the pan as the guy whos ramp i used dropped the pan off,he said it was clear enough on the filter etc,but the oil turned very dirty borwn when let some out 24hrs later.

the shifts are fabulous ,like a new transmission ,when it doesnt flare.

so i am certain the first fault was 100% cured by the k1 kit ,and once the car has had a good run out when snow and ice clear i think the fluid may be a few millimetres up about the hot mark on the stick -if thats the case i will drain a small amount off and hopefully make cure fault 2.

many many thanks to all who offered advice - i will post up once resolved

happy xmas and a prosperous new year !!!

al :thumbsup:
The reason I said that is if there wasnt alot of metal dust or metal peices in the pan then I would guess it must be flow or a weak part like another spring somewhere. Maybe a "valve piston" not as free as it should be or something not sealing well etc. I'm just being very general because I really dont know the inner workings but I've seen alot of the parts. Debri somewhere and ATF quality are my first thoughts. Yes, let us know what you find out.
 
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