[KnigolubS600L]

Hi guys,

There is a discussion going on here as to a certain W140 1992 Mercedes-Benz S 600 Koenig Specials 7.2 is real or not. Unfortunately, i do not have the VIn number, but is there any way for you to tell if it is one of Koenig's creations, or the person is an imposter trying to pose as a Koenig owner?

I am not finding any info on this engine (620 hp), only on the standard 520 and 550 (600 SEL modifications) but then again there is a picture on Koenig specials of a 580 hp.

I would really appreciate it if someone who really knows Koenig's stuff to shed some light on the matter.

The reason i am so doubtful is the low mileage and no info on the engine whatsoever. I mean if its so rare it probably belongs in a museum. I think its just a paint job on a well preserver 600 sel body trying to pass as Koenig.

Here is the car, looking forward to your respones:

 

[KnigolubS600L]

 

[KnigolubS600L]

those breaks and discs look real to me, but then again i guess they can be repainted like that?

 

[Steve_B]

I am not finding any info on this engine (620 hp), only on the standard 520 and 550 (600 SEL modifications) but then again there is a picture on Koenig specials of a 580 hp.

You likely won't find anything because this car is fake. 100%.

My understanding is that Koenig was big on body modifications, and this car has none (besides the exhaust tips).
And did I mention the atrocious looking rims?
EDIT: The 600SEL badging on the glovebox wooden strip is suggestive of a car built in 1991 (per this thread, I didn't even know there are special part numbers and the wood is special), but the head unit is the wrong style (should have had the BE 1432).

To me, the above suggest that someone messed with.

The con-artist that did the paintwork on the intakes and the valve covers was someone obviously knowledgeable.


The car has the rear-split sitting option and the tables, but so did this "Lorinser edition" (one of a kind?)

I could be all wrong, of course, but let me suggest two relatively simple ways to find out more about the engine:

1. Open up the coffin box and record the part numbers of the LH computers. If the same as yours, no need to dig deeper.

2. Do a dyno test. If the engine puts out more than 400 HP at the wheels, it is legit.

Have fun,
Steve

PS Bolt on caliper/rotor mods are available for virtually any car, one of the easiest upgrades one can do

 

[Joe-V12]

Would take 1 second in 1st gear to know.

 

[arklatexV12]

If someone were to try so pitifully at making a fake, why woukd they choose an obscenely rare and probably expensive version? (See rear seats). The same points about lack of bodywork were brought up when the NYC Brabus was post, and we all saw how that went.

My vote is yes, but like the others said, just drive and it'll be obvious.

 

[KnigolubS600L]

Not sure if the owner will give it as we are kind of bad terms right now, but who knows.

Here is a vid of how it sounds (tell me if it opens for you) https://www.facebook.com/folirane/videos/685340041670690/

The same points about lack of bodywork were brought up when the NYC Brabus was post, and we all saw how that went.

What happened with that Brabus it was also debated whether it was real or fake?

And also you say Yes its fake or Yes its real?

 

[KnigolubS600L]

1. Open up the coffin box and record the part numbers of the LH computers. If the same as yours, no need to dig deeper.

You mean they have to be different? I also thought that maybe Koenig leaves a badge on the intake (like amg, brabus) or they have a unique serial number that can be difficult to replicate.

 

[Joe-V12]

Fake.

 

[Steve_B]

You mean they have to be different?

I have never seen a Koenig up close, but I'd argue that it will be against all principles of thermodynamics to increase power output from 400 to over 600 HP and use the same fueling/ignition maps....

Best regards,
Steve

 

[Steve_B]

What happened with that Brabus it was also debated whether it was real or fake?

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140-s-class/2816266-7-3-engined-brabus-s600-new.html

I do not recall anyone ever questioning the authenticity of the S73 Brabus (plus the person that sold it had ALL documentation)

BRABUS, to my knowledge was not known for their body mods and the master catalog shows it -- the focus must have on performance.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140-s-class/1864873-w140-brabus-master-catalog-price-lists.html

Steve

 

[KnigolubS600L]

Got a reply from Walter Koenig today (son of Willy Koenig) but his answer is not definite:

"Hi,

i need the Chassis number to check if it is real.

We had 580 Hp .

You can have a look at our website.

Kind regards,
Walter Koenig"

I was hoping that he'd say something along the lines of, we never made a 620 hp mod so its fake.

So i asked him again, but not sure if he'll answer.

 

[Steve_B]

I was hoping that he'd say something along the lines of, we never made a 620 hp mod so its fake.

The HP aside, the car on the pictures is not even lowered. As a matter of fact, it might even sit higher than most 600SELs. How does your friend think he can utilize all these extra ponies, flying?

The Japanese/Middle Eastern markets must have been bustling with AMGs, Walds, Lorinser's, etc. some 15-20 years ago.
I had bookmarked this page with many pictures scanned from Japanese car magazines:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140-s-class/1608487-scans-japanese-w140-mag.html

Nothing resembles the ride you showed in the 1st post

Steve

 

[arklatexV12]

You were right, Steve - I mixed up folks here with some others, who were quick to deny the NYC Craigslist Brabus. Boy, did they eat their words or what.

 

[Thom_7]

My first instinct is to say it's a fake; too many big things are off. No outrageous body kit, relatively conservative interior treatment, an odd engine spec that we can't find any evidence of having ever been built by Koenig... it all adds up as a fake.

Even if you overlook little things like the fact that even Koenig wouldn't have used such tacky wheels, or the ride height, or that the 600SEL badge would almost definitely have been removed by Koenig, it still seems off.

On the other hand, when new these cars could be ordered to any spec the buyer wanted. If they asked for a conservative interior, a mild body kit, and no badge delete, Koenig would have been happy to oblige. The horrible wheels and incorrect ride height can be explained by the car being 25+ years old and at the bottom of it's depreciation. It stands to reason that some less-than-ideal owners have had their way with it.

The only picture I can find of a Koenig-modified M120 is of a 7.2-580, and it seems to match the look superficially, but again, some little things are off. A red/white color scheme vs. red/gold, and the fonts are incorrect. May seem minor, but things like that are often telltales of forgeries.

My instinct is definitely leaning towards fake, but I also wouldn't be shocked if it were real either. As others have said, driving it will confirm very quickly either way.