You may as well buy a used Prelude. Check the crash test data before you go for the AUDI. Diesel is cheaper where I live. Gasoline just went up another 2 cents today. The highest octane blend is now $1.59 per gallon. Ever seen a wreck where a gasoline tank has ruptured? Diesel does not ignite like that. Just a thought.
is Audi better for the money?
I know, I may get beaten for this post, but please read. I am considering getting 81-84 diesel( 240D, 300D or 300SD)for commuting to work (about 110 km round trip). I spoke yesterday to a mechanic who does only german cars (here, north of Toronto). He said that, for the money, he would not go for an 'old stinky diesel' which may be a good car in a southern climate like California or Arizona, but is not where the winter and salt on the roads make 20 year-old car 'a rusting bucket'. He suggested going for late eighties Audi, like Audi 90. Did anyone have experience with both cars who would share thoughts?<br> Thanks.<br>
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fancy coming on a Merc enthusiasts forum and asking such a stupid question.<br> If you are a true Merc fan you would not even entertain this question.<br> Its all about passion for the cars <br> You are in the wrong place for advice on matters such as these.<br> No offence but come on man this is a site fir Mercedes nuts !!!!!<br>
Well atleast you knew you would get flamed coming from a site like this. Remember you get what you pay for. Plus remember Audi and when they really started importing into the US. They were and in my book still are pieces of sh%t and my best friend is an Audi tech.
I disagree about Audi's being '[email protected]' my '94 80TD has 200,000 miles. Isn't looked after, yet in 6 years of owner ship has never let me down. Mercs do have a better image but for the money I would give an Audi a try. <br> Also the Audi is made of Galvanised steel, so despite the large scratch down one side and the fact it never gets washed it has no rust. Use my 230 for more than two weeks in winter and the wheel arches start corroding.<br> <br> <br> Jay.<br> <br> '61 MB 220SEb coupe<br> '73 MB 230/6 LWB<br> '83 MB 230 CE coupe<br> '94 Audi 80 1.6TD<br>
I appreciate all opinions, guys!<br> It's my decision, of course, and like I said, having never owing one, I am still to become a Benz fun (although I always wanted tri-star). It's a question of economics for me now, not image. That's why I wanted to hear from those who have experienced both MB and Audi.<br> Thanks anyway!
in a word NO! 84 mb 300 turbodiesel has a bulletproof motor - cold starting no problem with good compression and glo-plugs. in super cold a block heater is a big help. make sure your candidates have one installed. audi 90 is a pos imho. if you want a reliable transport go for the mb diesel every time.
I'm not in Ontario, but in a warmer climate. I have a 240D as my everyday car, and it may be old, and smelly, and gutless etc etc, BUT, I have never owned a better work/runabout car in my life. It cost me $3,000 and this thing is unstoppable and costs nothing to run. All that, and I still get the comfort and solidity of driving a Mercedes. I haven't owned an Audi, but my wife had an upmarket Jetta (Audi's smaller cousin?) which we recently replaced with another Benz diesel. IMHO I have never owned a bigger piece of sh#t in my life than this VW - I have never had a car into the dealer so often for piddly electrical problems - it cost me a fortune (well more thna the car was worth). It's no wonder they have to now sell these things with 5 year warranties. The best day of this year was the day I sold it.
For the winters in Canada go for a '88-91 Audi 90 quattro. The 5cyl. is as near bullet-pro...
For the winters in Canada go for a '88-91 Audi 90 quattro. The 5cyl. is as near bullet-proof as the MB diesel if maintained properly with the best of fluids. The quattro is amazing for the age of the car- pass any gas guzzling SUV and still get 23-25 mpg. Also the galvanized bodies still look good 15 years later. MB's are great cars, but for a primary car I would suggest the Audi 90 quattro.
-Brian
'88 90q
216,000K mi. and still strong
For the winters in Canada go for a '88-91 Audi 90 quattro. The 5cyl. is as near bullet-proof as the MB diesel if maintained properly with the best of fluids. The quattro is amazing for the age of the car- pass any gas guzzling SUV and still get 23-25 mpg. Also the galvanized bodies still look good 15 years later. MB's are great cars, but for a primary car I would suggest the Audi 90 quattro.
-Brian
'88 90q
216,000K mi. and still strong
I had an 1992 Audi 90 Sport with the 5-cyl engine. The MORNING after that I bought it, it ...
I had an 1992 Audi 90 Sport with the 5-cyl engine. The MORNING after that I bought it, it had problems. I pulled out of the driveway and it engaged into first and then it would slip. When it was warm it was ok. A few weeks later I noticed that the radiator was losing water fast. It was under warranty so apparently they fixed it...3 months later it went out of warranty and after a $997.00 service, I was told that the transmission needed replacing and it needed a new radiator. I thought this is a joke and sold it at an auction. I had lost $8000.00 in a matter of 6 months.....
My mate has a 1996 A4 1.8T and he is always having problems with his turbo....Also, as someone mentioned, the Audi just doesnt feel the same. It doesnt have that rock solid feeling as a Mercedes does. My opinion
I had an 1992 Audi 90 Sport with the 5-cyl engine. The MORNING after that I bought it, it had problems. I pulled out of the driveway and it engaged into first and then it would slip. When it was warm it was ok. A few weeks later I noticed that the radiator was losing water fast. It was under warranty so apparently they fixed it...3 months later it went out of warranty and after a $997.00 service, I was told that the transmission needed replacing and it needed a new radiator. I thought this is a joke and sold it at an auction. I had lost $8000.00 in a matter of 6 months.....
My mate has a 1996 A4 1.8T and he is always having problems with his turbo....Also, as someone mentioned, the Audi just doesnt feel the same. It doesnt have that rock solid feeling as a Mercedes does. My opinion
Audis are nothing more than overpriced VW's with more things to go wrong. Who cares if a c...
Audis are nothing more than overpriced VW's with more things to go wrong. Who cares if a car has galvanized body panels if the rest of the car is unreliable or requires frequent repairs?
Goto http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/home.cfm to see which make has more consumer complaints about it.
No matter where you go, you will find that there are far more happy MB owners than Audi owners.
Audis are nothing more than overpriced VW's with more things to go wrong. Who cares if a car has galvanized body panels if the rest of the car is unreliable or requires frequent repairs?
Goto http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/home.cfm to see which make has more consumer complaints about it.
No matter where you go, you will find that there are far more happy MB owners than Audi owners.
Prior to '88 yes, Audis were just VW's with 4 rings. From '88 on however Audi began to sho...
Prior to '88 yes, Audis were just VW's with 4 rings. From '88 on however Audi began to show the world they were more than just a VW. This can be seen especially today with the many wonderful innovations in technology and safety. As far as reliability, yes, prior to '88 the company did have some issues with the automatic transmissions used in the 5000 series, however the manual transmissions and 5cyl. motors are known for reaching 300,000 and further without a rebuild. Keep in mind, this is a gasoline motor. Audi bottom ends are some of the strongest in the business, except for maybe the commercial-grade MB Diesels. I would disagree that Audis need "frequent repairs" and are "unreliable". Any car that has never been taken care of, may need "frequent repairs" until eveything is up to par. This does not mean it is a bad car, it just means it did not receive proper care. Every company has their lemons, or so called "problem cars". Witness the 6cyl. Diesels used in the '86-87 300SDL/300D. Respectfully, I would be curious to know what experience you have had (if any) with Audi to make such claims? Bottom line: The Germans still build the best cars in the world.
Prior to '88 yes, Audis were just VW's with 4 rings. From '88 on however Audi began to show the world they were more than just a VW. This can be seen especially today with the many wonderful innovations in technology and safety. As far as reliability, yes, prior to '88 the company did have some issues with the automatic transmissions used in the 5000 series, however the manual transmissions and 5cyl. motors are known for reaching 300,000 and further without a rebuild. Keep in mind, this is a gasoline motor. Audi bottom ends are some of the strongest in the business, except for maybe the commercial-grade MB Diesels. I would disagree that Audis need "frequent repairs" and are "unreliable". Any car that has never been taken care of, may need "frequent repairs" until eveything is up to par. This does not mean it is a bad car, it just means it did not receive proper care. Every company has their lemons, or so called "problem cars". Witness the 6cyl. Diesels used in the '86-87 300SDL/300D. Respectfully, I would be curious to know what experience you have had (if any) with Audi to make such claims? Bottom line: The Germans still build the best cars in the world.
I used to work in a shop where we would work on German cars. We would get far more Audi's ...
I used to work in a shop where we would work on German cars. We would get far more Audi's than Benzes but VW's most of all. I hated to stick my hands under the hood of an Audi or VW because they didn't have much room to work with. Plus the shop times were far longer on the Audis since you had to remove many unrelated components to get to the faulty component. Plain and simple they were a hassle to work on. The Benzes mainly came in for maintenance items and less frequently for repair work.
I used to work in a shop where we would work on German cars. We would get far more Audi's than Benzes but VW's most of all. I hated to stick my hands under the hood of an Audi or VW because they didn't have much room to work with. Plus the shop times were far longer on the Audis since you had to remove many unrelated components to get to the faulty component. Plain and simple they were a hassle to work on. The Benzes mainly came in for maintenance items and less frequently for repair work.
I'd say go with the MB
I'd say go with the MB- the engine (pretty much the entire car minus electronics) is bulletproof. The only experience I have with older Audis is a friend's early 90's 200 Quattro, vs. my '83 300TDT. The MB takes less than $200-300 to maintain/year, where as my friend's Audi took ~$2k last year. He takes very good care of it too. Sure the engine is reliable, but what about everything else?
I'm not putting down Audi's- I have a new A4 that's trouble free. But the 123 MB diesels have proven reliability over 20+ years. Can't really argue with that.
Just get whatever you like better =)
I'd say go with the MB- the engine (pretty much the entire car minus electronics) is bulletproof. The only experience I have with older Audis is a friend's early 90's 200 Quattro, vs. my '83 300TDT. The MB takes less than $200-300 to maintain/year, where as my friend's Audi took ~$2k last year. He takes very good care of it too. Sure the engine is reliable, but what about everything else?
I'm not putting down Audi's- I have a new A4 that's trouble free. But the 123 MB diesels have proven reliability over 20+ years. Can't really argue with that.
Just get whatever you like better =)
I would hope that your new A4 is trouble free and that it give you many years of reliable ...
I would hope that your new A4 is trouble free and that it give you many years of reliable service.
I have something to add to what you said, "just get whatever you like better"
Just get whatever you like better to spend less money on.
I would hope that your new A4 is trouble free and that it give you many years of reliable service.
I have something to add to what you said, "just get whatever you like better"
Just get whatever you like better to spend less money on.
Re: Prior to '88 yes, Audis were just VW's with 4 rings. From '88 on however Audi began to sho
Also, before the recall, Mercedes noticed their customers were having problems with their trap oxidizers. They extended the warranty on those devices for the lifetime of the vehicle, and if the trap oxidizer incurred any damage to the turbo, or engine, they would replace it free of charge.
Does Audi stand by it's product like MB does? This is what MB is known for, and is how they've built their solid reputation for outstanding vehicle servicing.
Okay, there is nothing wrong with those cars at all. MB did a recall, replaced the trap oxidizer and replaced it with a catalyst( a $5,000USD job for free) in 1997. I have almost 300K miles on mine, now.Prior to '88 yes, Audis were just VW's with 4 rings. From '88 on however Audi began to show the world they were more than just a VW. This can be seen especially today with the many wonderful innovations in technology and safety. As far as reliability, yes, prior to '88 the company did have some issues with the automatic transmissions used in the 5000 series, however the manual transmissions and 5cyl. motors are known for reaching 300,000 and further without a rebuild. Keep in mind, this is a gasoline motor. Audi bottom ends are some of the strongest in the business, except for maybe the commercial-grade MB Diesels. I would disagree that Audis need "frequent repairs" and are "unreliable". Any car that has never been taken care of, may need "frequent repairs" until eveything is up to par. This does not mean it is a bad car, it just means it did not receive proper care. Every company has their lemons, or so called "problem cars". Witness the 6cyl. Diesels used in the '86-87 300SDL/300D. Respectfully, I would be curious to know what experience you have had (if any) with Audi to make such claims? Bottom line: The Germans still build the best cars in the world.
Also, before the recall, Mercedes noticed their customers were having problems with their trap oxidizers. They extended the warranty on those devices for the lifetime of the vehicle, and if the trap oxidizer incurred any damage to the turbo, or engine, they would replace it free of charge.
Does Audi stand by it's product like MB does? This is what MB is known for, and is how they've built their solid reputation for outstanding vehicle servicing.
Yes, that was an outstanding job by MB to issue the recall and correct the problem. Actual...
Yes, that was an outstanding job by MB to issue the recall and correct the problem. Actually, what I was speaking of with regards to the 6cyl. diesel was the head gasket failures and overheating I had read/heard about. I have seen this from a few differnt sources, so I assumed it was correct. However, you know what they say about those who assume, so if this is incorrect, please by all means state the correct information to the best of your knowledge.
With regards to if Audi stands by their product like MB, I would say most definitely yes they do. For example some of the '92-95 100 series cars had problems with the fuel line leaking. Audi issued a recall and replaced it. In the '90-91 Coupe quattros, some of the vehicles equipped with a certain air bag module had problems. Again, Audi issued a recall and promptly replaced the defective part. These were just two that came to mind. Most of the German manufactures are far better at correcting their mistakes than other marwues.
With response to Lietuvia's comment about seeing more Audis come into the German repair shop than MBs, I would have to suggest that possibly the reason for this is because most of the MB owners were having their work done at the dealer rather than an independent shop. The other reason would be that more people are able to afford Audis than MBs, so consequently there would be more coming in than the MBs.
Again, my intent was not to put down Mercedes at all. I have had limited experience with them compared to Audi, and was basing my recommendation to Vadim on that in my opinion in a snowy cold Canadian climate, I would rather drive an All Wheel Drive Audi ('88+) of which I have never done anything but normal (not excessive like others suggest) maintenence to. And, since he was posting the question on the 123 Forum, in my OPINION, dollar for dollar and Audi quattro would be better for him than the 123.
Please do not shoot me for my opinion. I appreciate those who are diplomatic and professional in your responses. I AM HERE TO LEARN, not to talk trash or be talked trashed to.
Bottom Line:
The Germans STILL Build the Best Cars in the World
Yes, that was an outstanding job by MB to issue the recall and correct the problem. Actually, what I was speaking of with regards to the 6cyl. diesel was the head gasket failures and overheating I had read/heard about. I have seen this from a few differnt sources, so I assumed it was correct. However, you know what they say about those who assume, so if this is incorrect, please by all means state the correct information to the best of your knowledge.
With regards to if Audi stands by their product like MB, I would say most definitely yes they do. For example some of the '92-95 100 series cars had problems with the fuel line leaking. Audi issued a recall and replaced it. In the '90-91 Coupe quattros, some of the vehicles equipped with a certain air bag module had problems. Again, Audi issued a recall and promptly replaced the defective part. These were just two that came to mind. Most of the German manufactures are far better at correcting their mistakes than other marwues.
With response to Lietuvia's comment about seeing more Audis come into the German repair shop than MBs, I would have to suggest that possibly the reason for this is because most of the MB owners were having their work done at the dealer rather than an independent shop. The other reason would be that more people are able to afford Audis than MBs, so consequently there would be more coming in than the MBs.
Again, my intent was not to put down Mercedes at all. I have had limited experience with them compared to Audi, and was basing my recommendation to Vadim on that in my opinion in a snowy cold Canadian climate, I would rather drive an All Wheel Drive Audi ('88+) of which I have never done anything but normal (not excessive like others suggest) maintenence to. And, since he was posting the question on the 123 Forum, in my OPINION, dollar for dollar and Audi quattro would be better for him than the 123.
Please do not shoot me for my opinion. I appreciate those who are diplomatic and professional in your responses. I AM HERE TO LEARN, not to talk trash or be talked trashed to.
Bottom Line:
The Germans STILL Build the Best Cars in the World
Okay, I'm glad you brought the head issue up. Yes Mercedes had a lot of problems with th...
Okay, I'm glad you brought the head issue up. Yes Mercedes had a lot of problems with the heads overheating. You're right. Mercedes also updated those "curs-ed" aluminum heads to better, more durable ones. Unfortuanately I think they had to recall them 4 times before it was right.
Okay, Audi's alright. It's all just a matter of preference. I would go with the MB because of prestige, reliability, and firstmost safety.
The W126 S-Class was the safest car in the world, and is commonly nicknamed "The Tank".
The W123 300D had a very rigid safety cage and a solid chassis. My sister's family got hit in one, and the guy driving the car(Honda Civic) was sent to the hospital, his car completely destroyed (roofline was buckled). My sister needed two shock absorbers for the rear bumper. That was it, no body damage or frame damage at all. WOW!![:0]
Okay, I'm glad you brought the head issue up. Yes Mercedes had a lot of problems with the heads overheating. You're right. Mercedes also updated those "curs-ed" aluminum heads to better, more durable ones. Unfortuanately I think they had to recall them 4 times before it was right.
Okay, Audi's alright. It's all just a matter of preference. I would go with the MB because of prestige, reliability, and firstmost safety.
The W126 S-Class was the safest car in the world, and is commonly nicknamed "The Tank".
The W123 300D had a very rigid safety cage and a solid chassis. My sister's family got hit in one, and the guy driving the car(Honda Civic) was sent to the hospital, his car completely destroyed (roofline was buckled). My sister needed two shock absorbers for the rear bumper. That was it, no body damage or frame damage at all. WOW!![:0]
ACK!!! My experiences the car from hell (A novel by Afroney123)
A 86 4000csq
The thing had about 110K miles on it.
Heres what had to be repaired/replaced.... New fuel pump, 4 new shocks and springs, a window regulator, 3 door handles, new clutch and related parts, new rear calipers, a new jetronic fuel computer (ECU), A new ignition switch, 3 pounds of R-12, timing belt, any many more I cant think of at the moment. Finally the gearbox blew up, due to a sudden, massive leak in gearbox oil, and the rear differential was "locked" and it would not unlock. One good thing about the car was no rust,(galvinized body) good acceleration and beautiful handling at speeds over 100mph. Audi AWD kicks ass during the winter too. Also an Audi 5cyl engine is damn near indestructable.
Heres a list of the problems that are most common with this era of the Audi. (Courtesy of Audiworld.com)
1. Rear brake calipers freeze due to poor ebrake mechanism.
2. Door handle mechanisms constantly break
3. Window motors/regulators have major issues
4. Headlights REALLY suck.
5. Gas pedal linkage prone to breakage
6. Paint oxidizes really quickly
7. Constant suspension problems due to the horrible number of parts involved in early AWD.
8. 1 star front and side government crash rating (which brands this car as a coffin on wheels.)
In my final opinion I would never consider buying a 4000/5000 series, I would go with the newer 80,90,100 or 200 series, without the V6 engine. they are built much better.
A 86 4000csq
The thing had about 110K miles on it.
Heres what had to be repaired/replaced.... New fuel pump, 4 new shocks and springs, a window regulator, 3 door handles, new clutch and related parts, new rear calipers, a new jetronic fuel computer (ECU), A new ignition switch, 3 pounds of R-12, timing belt, any many more I cant think of at the moment. Finally the gearbox blew up, due to a sudden, massive leak in gearbox oil, and the rear differential was "locked" and it would not unlock. One good thing about the car was no rust,(galvinized body) good acceleration and beautiful handling at speeds over 100mph. Audi AWD kicks ass during the winter too. Also an Audi 5cyl engine is damn near indestructable.
Heres a list of the problems that are most common with this era of the Audi. (Courtesy of Audiworld.com)
1. Rear brake calipers freeze due to poor ebrake mechanism.
2. Door handle mechanisms constantly break
3. Window motors/regulators have major issues
4. Headlights REALLY suck.
5. Gas pedal linkage prone to breakage
6. Paint oxidizes really quickly
7. Constant suspension problems due to the horrible number of parts involved in early AWD.
8. 1 star front and side government crash rating (which brands this car as a coffin on wheels.)
In my final opinion I would never consider buying a 4000/5000 series, I would go with the newer 80,90,100 or 200 series, without the V6 engine. they are built much better.
Audi vs MB
I've had W123, W124, W126, and 460 experiences and can say that any of these models are far above the quality, safety, and engineering of any of the Audis from the same period. The Audi 100 is basically a slightly nicer Audi 5000. In fact, in Europe is was always the 100!
Our 100 was a nice driver, no doubt, but some things on it just made me scratch my head. Some things are so poorly designed it's unbeliveable.
On the 100, for example, adjusting the alternator belt tension requires more than two hands. There are several bolts and several connecting rods on that setup that are totally uncalled for.
On the benz, it's one screw.
BTW< I am probably the only person in the world to have done this, but I just sold my 1999 Audi A8Q and purchased a 1983 300TDT to replace it with.
much happier now, less maintenance, less repair, less insurance, no car payment, no depreciation
-mserpe
I've had W123, W124, W126, and 460 experiences and can say that any of these models are far above the quality, safety, and engineering of any of the Audis from the same period. The Audi 100 is basically a slightly nicer Audi 5000. In fact, in Europe is was always the 100!
Our 100 was a nice driver, no doubt, but some things on it just made me scratch my head. Some things are so poorly designed it's unbeliveable.
On the 100, for example, adjusting the alternator belt tension requires more than two hands. There are several bolts and several connecting rods on that setup that are totally uncalled for.
On the benz, it's one screw.
BTW< I am probably the only person in the world to have done this, but I just sold my 1999 Audi A8Q and purchased a 1983 300TDT to replace it with.
much happier now, less maintenance, less repair, less insurance, no car payment, no depreciation
-mserpe
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