[[email protected]]

Hi Guys,

New to MB world. Just purchased an 04 e320. Has about 55k on it. I bought it from a used dealer rather than the MB Dealer. I'm almost positive that they changed the oil before I bought it and put regular oil in it rather than synthetic.

Is there a way to tell which oil is in the car???

What is this going to do to my engine???

What should I do to fix the problem??

Thanks!! I really appreciate everyone knowledge.

Jack

 

[sosh]

After you confirm that they used regular oil take the car to an MB shop and have it drained and refilled with Mobil 1. Also change the filter to a new MB filter.

 

[ML Precision]

After you confirm that they used regular oil take the car to an MB shop and have it drained and refilled with Mobil 1. Also change the filter to a new MB filter.

I agree. As there is no easy way to confirm the type of oil, I would change the oil with Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40 (USA) and change the filter to OEM for peace of mind. A used car dealer may have only changed the oil and may not have changed the filter.

Also have the coolant checked. If it's green in color, it's not Mercedes coolant.

 

[drivbiwire]

Mobil 1, what does that mean? Grease? Bearing lube? simply saying "Use Mobil 1" opens up as many pitfalls as the use of conventional oil.

Not all Mobil 1 oils meet the Mercedes requirements which are MANDATORY for the engine.

Mobil 1 oils that specifically meet "MB229.5, MB229.51, MB229.3 etc etc) are what MUST appear on the label of the oil.

Mobil 1 5w30 DOES NOT meet ANY mercedes specification, in fact severe engine damage can occur if this oil is used in these engines namely in the cam and bearing regions of the motor. Mobil 1 5w30 ESP (MB229.51) is a fully approved oil under the MB requirements.

Forget "Mobil 1" and focus on the "MB Sheet" requirements which determine the suitability of the oil for your engine.

DB

 

[MB-SV]

Mobil 1 is a satisfactory term for those having MB's serviced at a MB dealership.

 

[lkchris]

Drain, refill with Mobil 1 0W-40.

Don't worry, be happy.

 

[vettdvr]

Drain, refill with Mobil 1 0W-40.

Don't worry, be happy.

Drive 3000 miles on clean oil then Drain, refill with Mobil 1 0W-40 and a Mercedes Fleece long life filter.

Don't worry, be happy

Be happy 0w-40 M1 meets 229.51 :surrender:

 

[drivbiwire]

Drive 3000 miles on clean oil then Drain, refill with Mobil 1 0W-40 and a Mercedes Fleece long life filter.

Don't worry, be happy

Be happy 0w-40 M1 meets 229.51 :surrender:

Worst advice you can possibly give.

Within a few miles damage is already being done to the motor. Certain regions of the piston and ring lands exceed the temperature limits of conventional oil and immediately start coking and varnishing the regions. Oil passages close to the combustion chamber also exceded the temperature limits of the oil during normal operation and after shutdown (refer to the engine failures in the Toyota V6 engines due to coking)

Pushing the wrong oil much less an engine designed to be run exclusively on Synthetic oils with specific approvals for 3,000 miles only insures that irreversable damage is done to the motor.

The lack of proper additives in the lubricant (ie MB229.X compliant) means that the engine is being damaged from the use of the wrong oil from start up to shutdown.

If the wrong oil is used it must be dumped and the correct oil installed without any delay.

DB

 

[vettdvr]

Worst advice you can possibly give.

Within a few miles damage is already being done to the motor.DB

For the lack of engineering data measuring the wear from conventional oil, and the fact that the E series gives the option on the FSS computer system that conventional oil can be used but at a much shorter change frequenty, our opinons might differ.

I would really wonder how many .001" of wear would occur for using an oil that MB allows to be used at a shorter frequency. Granted it doesn't meet the spec for LONG LIFE oil on the 229.51.

Back from my aviation days,, dirty oil is better than no oil and contaminated fuel is better than no fuel when you are in the air.

Aren't we having fun.

 

[drivbiwire]

For the lack of engineering data measuring the wear from conventional oil, and the fact that the E series gives the option on the FSS computer system that conventional oil can be used but at a much shorter change frequenty, our opinons might differ.

I would really wonder how many .001" of wear would occur for using an oil that MB allows to be used at a shorter frequency. Granted it doesn't meet the spec for LONG LIFE oil on the 229.51.

Back from my aviation days,, dirty oil is better than no oil and contaminated fuel is better than no fuel when you are in the air.

Aren't we having fun.

Conventional oil is NOT approved under any circumstance whether or not you use a shorter drain interval.

The issue is less about wear and more about oils that lack the proper HT/HS, additives for wear protection, oxidation stability and resistance to break down with sustained temperatures of +400F (temperature in the ring lands, underside of piston etc).

The fact is shortening the interval does not change the conditions the oil must perform in. When conventional oil hits the regions that exceed the oils ability to remain fluid, the oils can and will often leave residues that will permanently damage that region. Another test that tells part of the story is the NOACK volatility rating.

It's the same reason why turbine oils are different than piston engine oils. The temperatures of the aft seals exceed the capability of the oils to resist break down. Another requirement is for a low ash oil to eliminate residues after the oil "cooks" off when it leaks internally. The newer piston engines have in the same respect identical requirements to insure that the oil when it works into the high temperature regions of the motor does not burn off or leave deposits that can cause damage or inhibit normal movement of the parts in that area.

In the diesel engines you do not have liquid cooled bearing housings like you do in the gasoline engines. Also just like a turbine engine the turbine seals operate in a hellish environment. The turbo on my CDI has a higher sustained operating temperature (1040C) capability than most transport jet engines (960C +/-).

DB

 

[MB-SV]

Also just like a turbine engine the turbine seals operate in a hellish environment. The turbo on my CDI has a higher sustained operating temperature (1040C) capability than most transport jet engines (960C +/-).

DB

Does the turbo last the life of the engine/car?

 

[Fourdiesel]

Does the turbo last the life of the engine/car?

I checked my maintainence manual and I don't see a replacement interval for the turbo so I guess it is supposed to be 'lifetime' according to M-B. Unless of course you use the wrong oil. Then all bets are off!:crybaby2:

 

[vettdvr]

Does the turbo last the life of the engine/car?

The turbo on my truck is origional and 8 yrs old with 140,000+ miles using conventional oils. This truck will pull a 12,000 # load at highway speeds. Still going strong.

Clean air is extremely important to the turbo wheel. If the aircleaner isn't effect the abrasive materials will wear away the turbo wheel.

Keep the air filter clean.

 

[drivbiwire]

The turbo on my truck is origional and 8 yrs old with 140,000+ miles using conventional oils. This truck will pull a 12,000 # load at highway speeds. Still going strong.

Clean air is extremely important to the turbo wheel. If the aircleaner isn't effect the abrasive materials will wear away the turbo wheel.

Keep the air filter clean.

Does the turbo on your truck spin at 210,000 rpm?
Does the turbo on your truck operate in temps as high as 1040C
Does the turbo on your truck use VNT/VGV technology to control boost pressure and turbo rpm's?
Do your pistons have compression rings positioned in close proximity of the piston top to reduces crevice volume and lower emissions?
Does your truck have liquid cooled EGR?

It's like comparing a Model T to a Ferarri in terms of technology and applicability.

DB

 

[drivbiwire]

Does the turbo last the life of the engine/car?

Yes a modern turbo should easily last the life of the engine. If the oil prevents coking in the turbine seals, prevents wear in the front compressor seal and proplerly supports the 210,000+ rpm shaft on a .001" layer of oil then yes it will last that long.

Synthetic oil that meets MB specifications is a major factor in our modern engines reducing wear and protecting the miriad of components that rely on very specific aspects of that lubricants specification for that intended application.

My explerience is that the turbo on the MB engines (the ones I am familar with) have never been changed.

The best advice is use only the OEM air filters and replace ONLY at the recomended intervals. Filter's like the K&N simply cannot filter at the levels required to protect the 210,000 rpm aluminum compressor wheel of the new generation turbo's. Particles in the 100 micron range (which still pass thru a K&N) will eventually destroy the turbo. The OEM filters provide LOWER restriction, filter down to 10 microns, and easily last 56,000 miles between filter changes WITHOUT impeding the flow or causing excess restriction. Note that actual restriction is measured by the MAF sensor so the engine knows if there is an issue with the restriction levels of the filter element or if they are impeding the performance of the engine.

DB

 

[vettdvr]

Does the turbo on your truck spin at 210,000 rpm? Last time I tried to count em,, it I lost count at 119326 rpms.

Does the turbo on your truck operate in temps as high as 1040C Naw,, never measured too hot to get in there.


Does the turbo on your truck use VNT/VGV technology to control boost pressure and turbo rpm's? Nope,, none of those thingies either,, just up the boost until a rod clears the bottom of the pan,, then back off 1 psi.

Do your pistons have compression rings positioned in close proximity of the piston top to reduces crevice volume and lower emissions? Next time I tear it down I will use my close proximity gauge and check for ya!

Does your truck have liquid cooled EGR? I thought these weren't hooked up until emisson checking,, oops


It's like comparing a Model T to a Ferarri in terms of technology and applicability.

You are right,, the Model T would probably win. The lastest comparisom of a military Hummer the Model T won. So I suppose we could not compare the Model T to the Ferarri because A Ferarri probably might blush.
DB

But aren't we having fun with all the technico babble with no quantifiable data that anyone can measure from a qualitative test.

So :surrender:

Enough of this let him change or not change it is his car and $$ remember everyone has an opinion,, and it doesn't hurt my feelings for someone to differ. Hopefully I answered all your questions. Now lets go on to something more productive. :baby bottle:

Remember pull the gear up before you overspeed them when using MAX AB for T/0. EGT 977C For full take off power 1080C max for 5 seconds on acceleration.

And you can't land until cleared. Mach 1.2 at 36" wing tip clearance is a real hoot in a 4 ship over the top.

 

[Musikmann]

After you confirm that they used regular oil take the car to an MB shop and have it drained and refilled with Mobil 1. Also change the filter to a new MB filter.

I think Sosh summed it up nicely here but I would not totally trust what they tell you about the oil in there. I'd have the oil and filter changed with the previously mentioned Mobil1 and OEM fleece filter for your own piece of mind.

 

[[email protected]]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all of your knowledge. I took my baby in Friday morning at 7.30 to the MB dealer. I have to say I was amazed at how nice and thorough my advisor was. We went over the entire history of the car, and discussed the oil issue. He said that is should not be an issue. Had the oil and filter changed. cost me about $115.00 using mobile 1 5w-30 full synthetic, said it was manufactured just for tem using their specs. I didn't think that was too bad. Afterall I did got to have a nice latte and croissant for breakfast for "free"

Jack

 

[unitfreebie]

DriveBiWire .. "Not all Mobil 1 oils meet the Mercedes requirements which are MANDATORY for the engine.

Mobil 1 oils that specifically meet "MB229.5, MB229.51, MB229.3 etc etc) are what MUST appear on the label of the oil.

Mobil 1 5w30 DOES NOT meet ANY mercedes specification, in fact severe engine damage can occur if this oil is used in these engines namely in the cam and bearing regions of the motor. Mobil 1 5w30 ESP (MB229.51) is a fully approved oil under the MB requirements.

Forget "Mobil 1" and focus on the "MB Sheet" requirements which determine the suitability of the oil for your engine. "

I was at Kragen's today looking at all the Synthetic oils and found only one type of Mobil 1 0-40W for European cars (black label) had the MB 229.5 approval listed on it! The other four Mobil 1 of different weights never listed the MB 229.xx approval, including the Mobil 1 5-30W .

So are you sure they put in 5-30W or was it 10-40W??? Big difference!!!

The Valvoline Synthetic had a MB 229.3 approval on the can.

So for FSS cars using Mobil 1 only the 0-40W for European Cars is the the to use... Right???

 

[Fourdiesel]

Mobil 1 ESP 5W40 is what Mercedes approved! The ESP is important.