[Blue Chip]

I cannot believe this is happening... (engine pics pg2)

Hi to all,

I've been away from this forum for a year now (as i planned to sell my 91 420SEC 210K km). However, i've decided to keep the car and there is A LOT planned to be done to it in coming few months. I basically plan a full engine rebuild and it will eat away quite nice chunk of my hard earned $€.

Does anyone know well-priced MB spare parts dealers (preferably online) that would ship to Europe and accept Paypal?

Also, what is the reccomended way to lower the suspension (do i need to change springs and shocks or is there a simpler way; if i need to change springs and shocks what products are suggested for comfort)?

Thanks.

 

[markusfmeyer]

For lowering, H&R or Eibach appear to be the two most popular brands. Make sure you get the right versions - depending on whether or not you have the self leveling system or not. Changing springs and using the right thickness spring pads lowers the car, changing shocks has nothing to do with lowering, but is recommended to change them as well unless they are fairly new already.

Good luck with your project!

 

[mramay]

What year is your 420? It should be less expensive to drop in a 5.0L or 5.6L M117 rather than rebuilding a 420. If it's a Gen I, a 5.0L engine is a drop-in, if a Gen II, then the 5.6L will work.

 

[jhodg5ck]

I've worked w/ people in shipping part abroad.. If you like drop me a line and I'll see what I can do to help out

Jonathan

 

[Roland500SEL]

Hi to all,

I've been away from this forum for a year now (as i planned to sell my 91 420SEC 210K km). However, i've decided to keep the car and there is A LOT planned to be done to it in coming few months. I basically plan a full engine rebuild and it will eat away quite nice chunk of my hard earned $€.

Does anyone know well-priced MB spare parts dealers (preferably online) that would ship to Europe and accept Paypal?

Also, what is the reccomended way to lower the suspension (do i need to change springs and shocks or is there a simpler way; if i need to change springs and shocks what products are suggested for comfort)?

Thanks.

Hi chip,

one of the best adresses in Germany -> Mercedes W126 Teile Ersatzteile Gebrauchtteile Fanseite

You will find our ebay-shop there.

For special questions you can reach me -> [email protected]

Regards from Cologne

Roland

 

[Blue Chip]

Thank you for your replies.

mramay, I thought i'll disclose the work once it's done but as you mentioned it.... it is not the 420 i'm rebuilding, its 560. I cannot confirm the facts yet (as i havent seen/recieved the engine) but it should be pure-breed 560 w/o cat engine (ie 220KW), but i need to verify this. It has tri-y's and it comes from a 87 560SEL.

I'm not sure how my 420 gearbox will handle this power but it should be a pretty quick car once all is done.

I'd like to rebuild it properly - change all vacuum tubes, seals and other components that have been warn out i don't have the full list of needed parts yet but there are quite few things i would need.

about lowering - Yes i have SLS. I understand that by using the thinnest spring pads the car would also look a lot better. I'll probably try this first and if it will not be enough i'll do the springs.

Jonathan & Roland, i'll contact you once i recieve the engine and have the full list of goods i will need.

 

[420 SE]

I can understand what you are doing, but it's a shame - the 420 SEC chassis was second only to the 560 SE in the fewest built.

 

[Blue Chip]

I know only some 400+ 420SEC were made in 1991. But i will be building the car for myself now and a chance to own one of the fastest SECs (excluding AMG models of course) is too tempting. It would be a childhood dream coming true.

BTW, How could i understand if the engine is THE 300 hp 560? They are all M117.968.

 

[AxelWulff]

I know only some 400+ 420SEC were made in 1991. But i will be building the car for myself now and a chance to own one of the fastest SECs (excluding AMG models of course) is too tempting. It would be a childhood dream coming true.

BTW, How could i understand if the engine is THE 300 hp 560? They are all M117.968.

If the car it came out of had the 822 option, then it will be a 300 HP engine.

If you don't have the VIN of the car, your best bet is to take the engine # off the block and trace that.

Good luck on your project. I understand the urge for more power, even in the form of a non-original engine.

 

[Blue Chip]

If the car it came out of had the 822 option, then it will be a 300 HP engine.

If you don't have the VIN of the car, your best bet is to take the engine # off the block and trace that.

Axel thanks!,

I will not be able to detect the VIN of the car but i will be able to see the engine serial number.
But if i have it which section of the S/N will say if it is the 300hp engine?

 

[Dr.Grillz]

If the car it came out of had the 822 option, then it will be a 300 HP engine.

If you don't have the VIN of the car, your best bet is to take the engine # off the block and trace that.

Good luck on your project. I understand the urge for more power, even in the form of a non-original engine.

ditto... the above is true if its the ECE version which will come up as 822 optioned. However, the latter RUF versions also had 300hp but they don't have the option code 822 that shows up. If the engine is a 5.6L and the tri-Y headers originally came with the motor... then its a 300hp version.

 

[Blue Chip]

Hi,

Got the engine on weekend. Here are some pics of it.

Picasa Web Albums - Marko - sec mootor

(you can click on left/right arrows for more pics).

So far, so good.

My mechanic made following recommendations for upgrades.
1) replace hydraulic tappers (i thinks thats whats its called in english) with ones from some older engines. He said it will require engine adjustments after every 35K km but it will improve power at high RPM
2) somehow figure out how to better adjust the timing chain (chain itself is good, but it cannot be precision adjusted.
3) increase compression ratio.

What are your view on those mods?

 

[jhodg5ck]

You'll need a different cam as well..hydraulic cams don't like solid lifters and vice versa...

35K is a lot on the long side, esp. if you drive the car spiritedly!

You can do a fair bit of adjusting w/ the offset woodruff keys, otherwise you'll be making up custom cam gears.

your engine is 10-1 already, so unless you plan on getting into cylinder heads mods/HOT cams and the like I don't think you want to bump the CR much..besides, you'll need new pistons to do so. Seriously shaving these heads will throw off your cam timing quite a bit, plus the piston to valve clearance is on the Tight side.

Jonathan

 

[Blue Chip]

Jonathan, thanks for your input. Just few details that i wanted to confirm:
Have you heard if anyone has tried this lifter conversion on M117? And is there a "bolt-on" cam for M117 that could be the replacement if solid lifters are used?

As it will be my sunday driver, it will not do more than 5K km, so i dont mind checking the engine every few years.

Have you tried adjusting the adjusting with woodruff keys? will the timing be worth it?

I'm pretty excited about the project. I'm planning to bring the engine to top notch condition which means it will actually be 300hp.

Did both 560 and 420 SEC come with 1:2.47 rear ratio?

PS. Will my 420 gearbox and diff handle the 300 hp or should i start looking for a 5.6 ones right away?

 

[jhodg5ck]

Have you heard if anyone has tried this lifter conversion on M117? And is there a "bolt-on" cam for M117 that could be the replacement if solid lifters are used?

I have a cam for solid lifters, I'll warn you though, it's Quite hot..we could make something a little less aggressive if you like though You will also need different valve springs and lash caps as well.


Have you tried adjusting the adjusting with woodruff keys? will the timing be worth it?

I haven't played with them much except in older engines that won't come back into line after a timing chain/upper gear change.


I'm pretty excited about the project. I'm planning to bring the engine to top notch condition which means it will actually be 300hp.

If you run my cam you should be around 315-320.

Did both 560 and 420 SEC come with 1:2.47 rear ratio?

Yes


PS. Will my 420 gearbox and diff handle the 300 hp or should i start looking for a 5.6 ones right away?

The 420 should hold up for a while, again depends how you drive. I'd switch the fluid out to B&M Trick shift synthetic and turn up your modulator pressure so that you're getting Quick, Crisp shifts.

Have fun

Jono