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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I got under her today and drained the oil from lower pan.....took out the old filter and lastly lowered the pan.......I got concerned when i seen the black plastic pieces in the oil.......at first i thought they were timing chain guides.....after cleaning them and looking at them....they are black and not much of them.......I put my finger up the sump and found nothing but the screen......it seems like the black plastic piece that is lower than the screen is not smooth....maybe broken?

can i assume that something broke off the black plastic sump piece....?

another concern is most of the oil looked good coming out.........when it was time to drop the pan there was two streaks of a yellowish cloudy type oil.....there was two in the bottom of the pan and some close to the oil pump chain towards the front bumper of the lower pan...is a few streaks in 8+ quarts normal on a 100k plus car... does get above 80 but never above 90. no coolant loss that i know

How worried should this make me.....? What is my next step? Is it ok to drive?
View attachment 409194 [/ATTACH][/ATTACH] View attachment 409198
 

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I would not drive before finding out what those pieces are. Take them to MB mechanic, he will know what it is. or maybe someone here is familiar with engine internals.
 

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If you take the valve covers off, you'll likely see that the timing chain guides have self-destructed.
Actually a pretty simple fix; but would get to it...
And the cam oiling tubes will probably need fixing as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
thanks for the replies so far........I was going to pick up the valve cover gaskets and have a look in there.........is the tiny bit of yellowish oil from condensation or something else.........is something contaminating the oil?....

i've seen some head gasket issues but that is usually a lot of milky oil throughout the entire oil system....this seems different, but didn't know if its the beginning sign of trouble.........
 

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Discussion Starter #5
i have the oil out of the crankcase now....how long can i safely keep the oil out while i repair whatever i might find? I know running it without oil is not an option...i put the lower oil pan back on it to keep out any dust or other unwanted material....I thought timing chain guides at first, but these pieces could all sit on one half dollar and i don't mean stacked...they are tiny.......
 

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Greek God of the R129
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I suspect that the pieces came from the guides, rails.
Remove valve covers, see what's up.
Look especially around the chain, and oil bridges, plastic or metal?

Milky oil?
I hope that is not from your head gasket.

How many miles on the clock?

Regards,
aam.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
111,000 on clock. in the process of replacing all rubber, hoses, vacuums etc........it does get me some piece and quiet from the wife.....but the problem is she feels like i care more about my car since i have been out there so much....i'm sure some of you have heard that phrase before.....

noticed a few vacuum lines brittle and one broke off behind alternator...thought maybe some water or antifreeze got in somehow that way....

going to remove tomorrow.....i wouldn't say milky oil......as it drained it looked good.......even when barely dripping at the end.....in the bottom of the pan was a yellowish swirl....(3rd pic down of the oil in the pan...some are clouds, but it is about 2" from the left of the photo)...I know the car sat for over a year and i'm hoping that is condensation..wishful thinking? no coolant loss....but i know the sensor and light are working....i removed upper rad hose and drained very little out of the system...the light did come on briefly on a hill after that...refilled a tiny bit and no more light...

in the 4th pic down that shows a good pic of the oil chain on pump.......see how most of the oil is one color......the way the picture is sitting on the page...the yellowing is just below the chain in 4th pic down............it would be the part of the oil pan closest to the front bumper.....

thanks aam.....I read your post about leaving one of you bottom guides off....trying to look at the bright side....maybe redoing the suspension and starting on rubber and plastic parts made me look a little harder.....just praying i caught whatever i haven't identified in time...
 

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If you drained the oil whilst it was cold then that could explain the streaks, especially if it has been standing a while. What colour was your coolant? Inside of the engine looks nice and clean. As suggested, remove the camshaft covers.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
checked coolant and it is green. don't know if the previous owner used the anti corrosive antifreeze....I'm getting the valve cover gaskets ordered and will pick up the correct antifreeze......

car has been sitting a while....replaced both front suspensions.....problem is this is my busy season with sales.....time is limited and i've probably been spending more on it than i should.....I want to make sure it is right before i take the risk of a huge expense....
 

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Timing chain tensioner rail pieces.Working on a car with a failed rail currently I wouldn't start it again until the rails were replaced.
Here is a good link to M119 engine schematics and proceedures the timing chain cover requires some effort to remove including removing the oil pump and cam timing gears.

Mercedes Benz Model 124 - M119 Maintenance Manuals
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
passenger side valve cover is all i could get to today

OK.....I got around to the passenger side valve cover today...let me know if you see something even if its obvious....when i removed the air hose on the back of the air filter i noticed oil on the back ledge.....once removed i found the crack at the y section where the vacuum hose connects to the air line.....

didn't see anything wrong with the little top guide i seen.....i don't really know what i'm looking for on the oil tubes......

I did notice a broken piece of black plastic back by the oil filler line????? think it is the second photo.....

when i replace the timing chain rails will i have to pull the whole front unit off or not?> what should i order other than valve gasket and timing chain guides...I should replace them just because of age and preventive mtn...correct? anybody know what that plastic part is around the oil filler?
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Discussion Starter #12
aam i read your post on your engine ticking issue......starting to wonder if i need to pull the oil filter and see if one of those tiny pieces has lodged my filter housing open....
 

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If when you start the car, like in the morning, you don't hear a click/ clack that as the rpm and it goes away.
I am not talking the sound of the air pump.
The water in the oil is most likely contaminants.

Then button it up.

I suspect that you do have a broken guide, or something fell in, take a flashlight, look up.
Mine the guide tail is missing.
I am not looking forward to spend all this time.

Expense is not that bad, but time and room...... is.
Plus I am running out of wax.
(To plug the ears from wife's nagging.) Lol.

Your oil bridges are metal, good.

Regards,
aam.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
thanks for the reply.......i'm going to do a further inspection tomorrow while my wife is away from the house........i want to look at the other side and get a good look at the tube ends and the rest of the timing guides.....couldn't believe how tight that chain is...those parts do look like that broken piece from near the oil filler......I ordered the valve gaskets today from mb.....they were 48 and 49 dollars....a little more but i read they fit better....trying to play catch up from the PO...
 

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Having read the above thoughts..... It's possible that debris may be left from a previous repair and they never cleaned the pan, if you can't find evidence of damage.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
oil separator and crank case breathing tube...

ok...i did get out there today and checked all the cam oilers on passenger...they are good......nobody has commented on the broken piece.... View attachment 409642

talked to two dealerships and an indy today.....the parts can be seen on the russian site under alt link....under 119.960, engine parts, cylinder head and gasket kit....it is part 77 and 74 on drawing... CYLINDER HEAD & GASKET KIT ....part # A 1190160181 cylinder crank case breathing and A 1190100062 oil separator right side. the o62 surrounds the 181 tube which surrounds the fixed metal tube under valve cover........I'm almost sure this is it but not 100%.

anyone had to change this? could this be the cause of the low pressure on guage after warm up....oil in the air filter housing and on back of it. the part will be in by tuesday and i hope this fixes it.......i tried digging on these parts and came up with very little.....

what is the fixed metal tube on the bottom on valve cover....i tried blowing in it and nothing....could it be clogged....lube starving? anyone?
 

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Greek God of the R129
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The plastic thing on the top it can be something that fell in.

About the oil pressure.
What gauge numbers are you getting?
What viscosity oil are you using?

I don't have all the answers. :(

Regards,
aam.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
lol....Aam, . I appreciate you even looking at it.......but if you want to chime in a few i would listen......about women or sl's lol....just make sure i don't get to far off the path. I've passed the panic mode, lol, and the pics for a couple days....

I was just saying, anyone else that would like to chime in I would listen and be grateful.....I think I know but I want all the options to over analyze.....

car starts at 3 bars and will run high at first...after 5 miles it probably acts like it should. 1.5-2 at idle and 3 going on gas.....after 15-20 miles it could be at under 1 going down highway.....

tiny bit of oil on back of air housing and inside filter housing.....surging idle once it reaches operating temp. ( start it it goes to 1300 rpm..after 5 seconds goes to 600-700. once operating temp if I stop it will be at 8-900 and needle will bounce from 800-13oo. no noises. engine sounds great. no tapping. no misfire. I think i'm dealing with multi diagnosis. vacuum leak and crank case something? I don't want to answer that until i get under her left side....that could be a different beast lurking in there....

as far as the oil goes...not sure to be honest with you...i paid someone to change it last time...(lesson learned)....I didn't realize how much a diff. the weight could make til i got in here....I read a lot in here and learned a lot....not near enough yet though...I got mobil 1 sitting here and they didn't have 20w 50 and would not order it for me...I went with 15w 50 as that was as close as i could get....reluctant to put that oil in til i figure this out....been thinking about getting something less pricey in case i have to drop it quickly.....

I'm thinking that part belongs where it is but i could be wrong...this is why....I went to examine it closer today and i grabbed it gently with long needle nose....It spins freely in the hole but it is in there....2nd that tiny piece next to it with the hole in it is in place good...not moving...I don't know why but it just feels right...

will it change anything I don't know....those to parts were 24 combined...worth a shot...
 

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Tommygun said: "......surging idle once it reaches operating temp. ( start it it goes to 1300 rpm..after 5 seconds goes to 600-700. once operating temp if I stop it will be at 8-900 and needle will bounce from 800-13oo....... "

Don't get me started.... :twak: Mine did that for quite a while...... :dunno:

Plug it into an MB computer.... See what it shows.
 
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