My '85 300sd had that kind of wobble shake inside the car, at 300k miles. I replaced the center support last and that was the problem. It doesn't take much movement for it to shake the car. Your center support is moving way too much and I would put money on your center support being bad, especially at that mileage.

Edit: You can see the rubber is collapsed in the video. The driveshaft should be centered and it is sagging really bad in the mount.

 

Thanks for the reply moose! I've got a center support on the way. I'll update everyone on this when the jobs done because it was an absolute nightmare to source out the correct center support for the CDI. all the diesel sedans have a DIFFERENT part number support from the rest of the gassers. That way the information is out there for those that need to do this in the future. The more these cars age the more the rubber bits like that break down.

 

I do service on my '05 CDI and a co-workers '06 CDI. We both put a lot of miles on our cars so I can see this coming up in the next few years. Currently doing the shocks/springs on his car plus a rear axle seal. You really can't tell how bad some rubber is until you get up close and personal with it.

I wish you well on this job and will keep an eye out for your updates.

 

Currently doing the shocks/springs on his car plus a rear axle seal.

Axle seal? On the diff? That sounds like a crappy job! Is it fairly straight forward?

 

My differential's driverside (LHD) CV hub seal has just begun leaking at around 223k miles. It's not marking it's territory yet & pinky finger dipstick in filler hole was able to touch fluid which looked remarkably fresh still so I think I caught it in time but I made an appointment with my indie in Daytona for next week to giterdun. Pulling CV axle from hub requires a specialty tool to remove a heavy-duty snap ring. Pulling actual hub, I'm not sure yet gotta look it up on WIS but I agree not a typical DIY w/o some proper tools such as a 2 point lift for starts. I'm gonna be sure to add center support to checklist for next time I'm under there. :nerd

 

No special tools at all. Just a small pry bar to pop the axle out on the CDI (large differential 1.5qts). Basically unbolt all the arms except the spring lower control arm so you can flop the bearing hub and remove the axle (keep the LCA supported so it doesn't get low enough to pop out the spring, might need to unbolt the shock to get axle free from the hub). The axle seals are really large and are the easiest seal I have ever installed. The spring/shock job was prompted by yet another broken front spring (broke one of mine 2 years ago).

The parts guy was all "drop the carrier, remove cover to get the axles out". But the WIS said differently. Axles come out just like most front drive cars I've worked on, with a reassuring 'click'. They snap back in the same way, align the splines and give it a shove, 'click'. Really easy and I'm on jack stands for this job.

 

Update a couple years later:

The issue is still there, still hammers just as hard, but feels as though it actually takes more work (IE more torque) to get it to happen. It only happens now under certain circumstances, such as going up hill, and only does it in 2nd and 3rd gear almost at around 2500-3500 rpms.

I've replaced flex disks, driveshaft support carrier and bearing, replaced both driveshaft centering bushings, checked the differential mounting bushings for play. The u-joint seems tight

After a while I thought this was related to a torque converter shutter I was having, which was very hard to diagnose because of THIS issue, but that was solved with a valve body rebuild.
This hammering vibration is so rough that it literally feels like the driveshaft is wacking the tunnel in the car, and it scares the crap out of me every time it happens.

I've also now devoloped over time an issue where I feel a slight vibration in 2nd and 3rd gears under light to moderate acceleration. Feels almost like a torque converter shutter, but it's origionating from behind the center console.
I sat in the front of the car and the rear as a passenger in order to compare vibration, and it's definitely feeling like it's origionating from the back more-so than the front.

I'm kind of at a loss here as to what to do next. This vibration is serious and weally wacks the car when it happens, and I've changed virtually every component in the driveline. Any ideas?

 

Diff bearings??

 

There's no bearing whine, no clunk from the rear end except under hard acceleration like I said. Diff also isn't leaking and I had no metal particulate in the oil when doing a diff fluid change about 3 months ago.

 

Is it the same car you were getting new tires for?
2 years is long time to drive with vibration and I don't thing bad center bearing can cost vibrations.
I know repair shops in USA are becoming dinosaurs, but seek in your area for driveshaft rebuild shop.
They will have machine to check the balancing.

 

No, that was the Bluetec.
This is the original, my high milage CDI.
The vibration is not a speed sensitive 'out of balance' vibration, it's a load sensitive vibration. I know what a tire balance issue feels like, and this is certainly not it. Wouldn't a driveshaft balance issue create a constant high speed vibration? This car is silky smooth at highway speeds, the only vibration is on heavy acceleration getting ON the highway from a ramp.


The I recently did that valve body rebuild which sorted out all shift quality issues, but it really didn't touch this rear end load sensitive hammering/vibration.
When it happens, I can feel it more in the back of the seat bottom than I can from the center console, which tells me it's coming from behind the transmission.

Questioning the diff bearings makes me curious, but there is no rear end whine at high speeds that I can hear.

 

Pilot bearings??? What about the main bearing coming out the trany?? Put a dial gauge on it, and wiggle it... That'll bet you some better indications... Or you could try a Steelman Chassis Ear.

 

Already tried wiggling the output shaft of the trans for any play, no detectable play at all. No clunking, no leaking fluid (which would indicate a seal worn from a bad output bearing).

By piliot bushings, you mean the bushings inside the ends of the driveshaft that align with a shafts on the trans and diff? Already replaced those. The origionals were barely worn.

 

At this point I just am spitballing... lol

 

You and me both. Haha

Next thing to check is the diff, but after that, I have no clue.

 

I remember similar issues some members had with W210
It was differential alignment.
Very seldom an issue and almost never checked, but differentials do have adjusting shims that change the angle.
Not guaranteed this is your problem, but sounds like the only thing you did not check yet.
Good luck.

 

So a few revelations after i have spent a considerable amount of time messing around with the balance and inclination of the driveline to try and shed some light on this problem.

First problem: The transmission cross member i discovered was bent pretty badly. SIGNIFICANTLY bent downwards, dropping the rear of the transmission over 3/4 of an inch. i replaced the cross member with a brand spanking new one from the dealership, and got the tranny back up where it should be.

The inclination (the angle at which the driveshaft approaches the diff and transmission) was off pretty significantly on BOTH ends. The 2 yolks that sandwich the flex disk on either side are supposed to be parallel in order to prevent excessive flexing of the flex disks. measured from top to bottom of the yolk flanges, mine was off by about 1/8" from top to bottom (about 6" long). The diff is tilted too low, and the tranny was pointed too high.

the tilt of the diff of course, is not adjustable. Every single mounting point for the diff or the diff cross member are horizontal, all the bolts go in horizontally. all my bushings are in good shape, still nice and tight. The ONLY way to adjust the diff tilt, is to shim under the front or rear of the sub frame mounts. after nearly breaking my back trying to get the sub frame mounting bolts out, i discovered that is impossible to shim as well. the bolts only thread in about an inch, and there's a large pilot that inserts into the top of the sub frame mount, preventing any shim from going there.

I ended up dropping the trans down about 3/4" and the center support down about 1/2" in order to get the inclination angle exactly straight from the tranny output flange to the diff input flange. this really was kind of a temporary solution to find out if it actually worked or not.

well, it completely solved my normal every day driving vibration at moderate acceleration between 35-45, but the heavy acceleration shutter/vibration/wacking at the same speed is SIGNIFICANTLY worse. That vibration is the driveshaft wobbling around very violently in the center support under heavy load.

im convinced this is due to my driveshaft being out of balance due to a worn u joint. There is a little play in only one cup of that u joint (it failed due to rust allowing contamination into the spider cup), which i think is allowing the driveshaft to be thrown out of balance.

this weekend i'm going to be temporarily stealing the driveshaft, center support, and flex disks out of my other CDI that DOESN'T have this problem and installing it to see if this issue goes away. stay tuned.

 

So a few revelations after i have spent a considerable amount of time messing around with the balance and inclination of the driveline to try and shed some light on this problem.

First problem: The transmission cross member i discovered was bent pretty badly. SIGNIFICANTLY bent downwards, dropping the rear of the transmission over 3/4 of an inch. i replaced the cross member with a brand spanking new one from the dealership, and got the tranny back up where it should be.

The inclination (the angle at which the driveshaft approaches the diff and transmission) was off pretty significantly on BOTH ends. The 2 yolks that sandwich the flex disk on either side are supposed to be parallel in order to prevent excessive flexing of the flex disks. measured from top to bottom of the yolk flanges, mine was off by about 1/8" from top to bottom (about 6" long). The diff is tilted too low, and the tranny was pointed too high.

the tilt of the diff of course, is not adjustable. Every single mounting point for the diff or the diff cross member are horizontal, all the bolts go in horizontally. all my bushings are in good shape, still nice and tight. The ONLY way to adjust the diff tilt, is to shim under the front or rear of the sub frame mounts. after nearly breaking my back trying to get the sub frame mounting bolts out, i discovered that is impossible to shim as well. the bolts only thread in about an inch, and there's a large pilot that inserts into the top of the sub frame mount, preventing any shim from going there.

I ended up dropping the trans down about 3/4" and the center support down about 1/2" in order to get the inclination angle exactly straight from the tranny output flange to the diff input flange. this really was kind of a temporary solution to find out if it actually worked or not.

well, it completely solved my normal every day driving vibration at moderate acceleration between 35-45, but the heavy acceleration shutter/vibration/wacking at the same speed is SIGNIFICANTLY worse. That vibration is the driveshaft wobbling around very violently in the center support under heavy load.

im convinced this is due to my driveshaft being out of balance due to a worn u joint. There is a little play in only one cup of that u joint (it failed due to rust allowing contamination into the spider cup), which i think is allowing the driveshaft to be thrown out of balance.

this weekend i'm going to be temporarily stealing the driveshaft, center support, and flex disks out of my other CDI that DOESN'T have this problem and installing it to see if this issue goes away. stay tuned.

Or you could by a GoPro camera and afix it so that you can view and hear the bouncing. There are many camera mounts available. Go to Best Buy and look at their display.

 

UPDATE:

Ended up buying a good "new" (Used) driveshaft on ebay for a benjamin. THAT fixed the problem, completely.
i'm editing a video currently explaining everything i've done, ill post it here once done.

It solved a vibration i didn't even know i had, from 20-25 mph, very subtle that i thought was just road surface vibration, turned out to be driveshaft as well!

Some time in the future i may try and rebuild the U joint on my old driveshaft and see if i can get a successful vibration free rebuild!

 

With great frustration, I've also been troubleshooting a mysterious vibration on a '04 4matic that seems like I can feel it in the seat or console. No vibration on the steering wheel. Vibration is very noticeable upon light acceleration around 2200 rpms or more so on deceleration down a hill. It goes away completely if I put the car in neutral at highway speed and promptly returns upon dropping the gear selector in D. I'm not hearing the load hammering sound.

Before fixing it, did you happen to notice if your vibration went away in neutral as you were going down the road?

 

In his case that would not have been a factor as the driveshaft was spinning regardless of the transmission being in neutral or drive.
Also do not coast for long periods of time in neutral. The trans pump will under feed the correct amount of fluid through the system and can harm your transmission.

 

Thank you for trying to help Noodles. I was only dropping into neutral for a few seconds at a time, just so I can feel the difference and rule out the tires and wheels. I don't believe doing it for that amount of time will hurt anything.

As far as the driveshaft is concerned, you would be correct and I would agree if it were an issue with just the balancing of the shaft itself. This is the same logic that I'm using for the tires & wheels. However, if one of the U-joints were slightly loose or binding up, then applying a load to the driveshaft might cause an uneven force to be applied between the 2 yoke ears and thus possibly cause a vibration. It's just a theory at this point and I was hoping to hear from Rossafus or anyone else who might have performed troubleshooting and successfully fixed issues with their U-joints or dirveshaft.

The other question I have for Rossafus is if the hammering sound started at the same time the vibration started or did it take some time to develop after the initial vibration started?

Thanks again for everyone's insight!

 

If the vibration is present when the car is just cruising at a constant speed ( cruise set on highway, very low load) but goes away when shifting into neutral, you can rule out everything post-transmission. Also, don't be afraid to shift into neutral, as long as the engine is above 1100 RPM the transmission is fine, the pump is driven 1-1 off of the engine via the torque converter.

the vibrations i was feeling were separate from Eachother, since each vibration happened at different load ranges. they happened at the same speeds, but the light vibration would only happen at moderate - low load, i COULDN'T feel it when accelerating suuuuper slow. The other vibration, i could only feel when the engine is at peak torque for that specific speed range. They never happened at the same time.

If its a 4matic, check out the front driveshaft and all CV joints. i just had a buddy with an ML320 cdi 4matic and one of the CV joints on the front driveshaft literally exploded while he was driving. id imagine there was a vibration present for him for a while before that blew.

 

whelp, i can show you what happens when a front driveshaft front u- joint explodes and it’s not pretty. i would definitely check the front driveshaft if you have a 4-matic, because i just spent a week trying to find the fluid transfer line bolt that sheared off. took as much time to source the fluid line as well ($150) as it’s kinked and cracked too. photos of the carnage below. also whacked the front diff and took a chunk out of the case. i will forever advocate 4 matic owners to check their front shafts. this happened on day 1 of ownership from a seller, 1 mile from point of sale, btw. i still haven’t driven the car 1 week later. longer story.

 

Hi Everyone,
Thanks for sharing your diagnostic journey on this. I have a 2005 W211 4matic Wagon e500 with 230K miles. I am getting a vibration upon slight acceleration at around 2200 rpm. Seems to subside when cold. Seems to be most pronounced when in the 1st to 2nd gear transition. I am wondering if this might be early signs of wear on the driveshaft since the OP said that the new driveshaft also solved a vibration he had at 2200 rpm. Do you guys think it is worth a shot to try new driveshaft? Can one simply install new U-joints in the driveshaft to rebuild it? What is the wear mode on the drive shaft?

Also since the last post showed a failed U-Joint that caused a mess.

Jeff.

 

as a follow up, the exploded drive shaft also pinched and grounded the battery cable to under foot well. Took me 6 months to trouble shoot the charging issue, and could only be seen when the exhaust was pulled on the pass side and entire harness/starter/driveshaft was removed. I replaced the starter while i was in there because those are known to fail as welll. So for that exploded shaft, it was a loooooong and expensive endeavour to fix everything. replaced the inaccessible wiring harness, starter, alternator, footwell fuse, fluid transfer line, front battery, charge relay under pass windshield wiper, and probably a few hundred bucks of shit i can't remember. oh and the driveshaft. replaced that as well.