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Discussion Starter #61
figure out my fuel system.. way simpler than I was making it in my brain!

alas, a question.. Any one have any idea what size the mercedes fuel line connectors are? 3/8 NPT? or are they metric? I found a company that sells NPT to AN fittings.. I always assumed the merc ones are NPT.. but then again, theyre euro.. and mercedes.. so...
 

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Discussion Starter #62
And now for today... Finished the Y pipe, albeit not wrapped yet, but its routed to the point that I could fire the motor without choking to death, or going deaf.



its tight.. thats for sure, but its a 1/2" of clearance minimum to the heat shields, and once its wrapped, it shouldnt get hot enough to be an issue.



Went underneath the car and did some more measuring. 2" drop linkage for the center section of the steering and I'll be set. I'm also going to be pushing my luck with the driveshaft I think. I dont have it made yet, but from what I've got measure so far.. I'm looking at an angle of 4*. Happy zone is 2-3*, may have to go CV, or cardan joint to make up for it. The car isnt exactly on level ground though, and I havent finished the trans mount. But with where I want the trans to sit, thats where its looking like it will end up.

Bought the rest of the steel I need to make the radiator mount/new support, and I'm currently arguing with the "tech support" at the company I bought my thermal rad fan kit from. They seem to think that I don't have to wire in a temp sensor to trigger the fan to come on... they say it will just happen when it gets hot enough......
 

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Discussion Starter #63 (Edited)
Alright, had another decent day yesterday.. actually had a huge stroke of luck!

this is probably going to be the most valuable piece of information donated to this thread yet.

For all future swappers.. a 1985 corvette power steering pump and remote resevoir will literally bolt right up to the mercedes system. lines are routed the exact proper length, with the proper bend and everything... I'm.... in shock actually. I figured, why the hell not, lets see if it fits.... behold!



I spilled power steering fluid everywhere.. so.. it was messy.. but seriously...



So now that that is fantastic, I have to mount the reservoir somewhere on the frame rail, out of the way of everything else, which should be quite simple.

Now for something a little more complicated. If you go back to the first picture, I wanted to use as much of the factory drive components as possible for the accessory system. More factory stuff = better chance of being able to run a common belt. Hell, if I can run all of it, a Belt for a 1985 Vette is the same serp belt used across a half dozen GM 350 platforms.

So, my thinking was, I really dont want to run the factory air pump. At all. I dont want to make anything custom. Maybe I'll just turn it into an idler. (for what its worth.. yes they do make a "delete kit" for it. Yes it is just an idler pulley and a piece of polished aluminum, and yes it costs $150, so no, I was not buying it.)

never yanked one apart, but how hard could it be. air pump right?



answer is; not hard at all.

Welp, those things need to come out of there.



Its a stupid simple system actually. Fixed shaft off center drives eccentric lobes that extend flaps in the housing outside the drum. Flaps pressurize air through the outlet elbow and into the exhaust. Less emissions or something.

At this point, I figured remove all resistance causing components and be left with a free wheeling idler that looks stock.



two hammers, some vicegrips, a chisel and a long screwdriver later...

wrong. I did greatly reduce the amount of torque necessary to drive the thing, but its not nearly where I wanted it to be.

So I ditched that for plan b. Make my own. Since the factory bracket that holds the top of the alternator is ridiculously shaped (has at least four different off angle bends...) and I was using the rest of the factory stuff, I figured I'd just incorporate it into the rest of the drive belt system and add my own idler. Wouldn't you know.. The mercedes exhaust hanger that mounts to the trans and suspends the mid pipes happens to have the perfect slotted holes for idler adjustment.



I got the top radius of the pulley as close as I could to where the air pump would normally rest as to ensure the belt stayed the same length. The corvette belt was long shot and in the garbage, So I used the Merc belt to double check pulley angle and depth. Its strangely only a couple inches longer.

I was going to create a system of bracketry to run the merc alternator as it would be a direct bolt in with the system, but after a little digging, the one that was on my car was either a 70 or 80 amp (still cant figure out which..) and the Vette one is an internally regulated 110. I'll take the free extra amps for whatever I chose to tackle down the road (truth be told.. I have considered air ride.)

Last thing I got done was finding the final resting place for the radiator. It's mounted at a slightly forward leaning angle, as I need the additional clearance from the top hose as I am now running the power steering I was previously planning on not doing. I started to make the upper mount brackets out of some flat stock, and welded in a new piece of angle steel for the "radiator support"



The picture makes the brackets look like they are not at the same angle, but I assure you they are. My OCD wouldn't let me mount them any other way. I'll end up tying the two uppers together across, then going up and over the radiator to the "radiator support" angle steel. The result will leave me with a radiator that will only be able to be removed through the bottom, but will return some of the structural rigidity back to what I had compromised, and there is plenty of clearance to sneak it out the bottom without having to even jack the car up. worst case scenario, I have to remove the crank pulley.. which is actually quite simple, and still easier than removing the radiator on some modern cars I've dealt with.

On the short list of things keeping it from moving under its own power is:

Fuel system
Wiring
Driveshaft
Trans mount/ shift arm
Steering linkage (just have to order parts..)

I need to figure out which of the pins on the GM alternator will match up with the merc wiring. B+ is obvious, I'm sure one is for the gauge on the dash, and the other.. not sure.

Also still have not figured out tach or speedo. I may end up pulling the cluster and making my own custom one.. Though I cant find a speedo that will read the electric output of the 700r4.

Lastly.. I figured out my steering dilemma, it was right infront of me the whole time. bump steer correction bolts.



I can literally put a bolt in the pitman and idler arm, they wont interfere with anything else, and then connect them with heim joints and a swaged rod. I've got my measurements, just have to order. If my measuring is correct, I'll need to run a 2.5" drop, which I should be able to get out of the bolts. I'm also going to have to go at it with no steering dampener.. SO I guess we shall find out how that plays out.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
Hit another speed bump. having issues figuring out the sizes of the fittings on the fuel pressure regulator, and how to adapt the flared mercedes hoses to them.
 

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Discussion Starter #65
alright, been a while, but I have been making progress.

I realized after I made all the radiator support bits, I forgot the fan was going in the front :mad:

so back to the drawing board. I improvised everything, and will have to tie it all back into each other.. but nothing that a little welding and some more metal cant fix. Also visible is my oops of the day. I pulled the radiator out to notch the lower support a little more for the fan and managed to bang into it while pulling myself out from under the car. bent fins and a little twisted upper tie. OH WELL! car isn't going to be a show car.



I also came to realize that my first air pump delete system was not going to work. when I fabricated the trans mount, I was able to get the transmission higher than i initially anticipated. This brought the pulley up to high and interfered with the hood slope. I like round two much better.



installed.. also visible is the trans cooler. Mounted it behind the radiator in some dead space so I could give myself just a bit more clearance with the grill.



heres a shot of the trans cooler. I tried several different locations, but none could get the airflow, or space, I needed. This thing is quite large after all. Also, the clearance to the accessory drives isn't nearly as tight as it seems. the radiator outlet is actually situated above the power steering pulley. I will need two 90" 1.5" radiator elbows to make it to the water neck, but it will work.

next up... I modified the stock trans cross member to fit with the 700r4. I was going to make a new one from scratch, but with the way the factory holes are, and the fact that the vette uses a torque arm instead of a traditional mount, this was a. much easier, b. much more convienient. c. it works and gave me the ability to adjust the arms around where it needs to be.



I was worried about this not being able to hold up, as it appears to not be the most highly engineered piece I've ever made.. but 500lbs of dynamic force later, it held up and didn't bend.. so I'll take it. I think people underestimate the strength of geometry and triangles far too often.

no pictures of it mounted because that's under the car and a pain in the dick.

next up! Steering linkage! kind of... mostly... another issue... godammit.



First, 5/8 swedged tube, with two 5/8 heim joints and two bump steer adjustment studs. As it would turn out, the mercedes uses a 5* ball joint taper, if anyone was curious. Luckily for me, I found some in 7* and with a little lathe work, fit em right in there. They aren't moving. Still waiting on Jam nuts.. because apparently a 5/8-18 LH and RH thread nut is impossible to find in a brick and mortar store, and I refused to pay 7.99 A PIECE when buying the rod ends. found them at a place half the state away for $.25/ piece.

now for the test fit..

My measurements work perfectly! 1/8 of clearance to the drain plug and 1/2" to the flexplate. its not much, but its enough.. and it works.. kind of.

(also in the background of this picture, you can see where the Y pipe exits next to the transmission)

now it hits the starter and the oil filter..... :mad:.

well, if its not one thing.. its another. So time to order a mini starter, and an oil filter relocation kit. still haven't figured out the stupid fuel pressure regulator fittings.

Nor has anyone provided me with an answer as to what signal keeps the fuel pumps running. I'm almost thinking it would be beneficial for me to just run an auxiliary electric pump.
 

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1993 300CE Cabriolet (mine) ; 1994 E320 Wagon (wife's) ; 1990 Benz 300E 2.6 (son's)
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the late M103 fuel pump is powered by a relay in the MAS can-o-stuff, this relay turns the pump on when it sees ignition from the engine turning over. it also runs about 1 second when the ignition is turned on to prime things. about one second after the ignition timing pulses stop, the relay shuts off the fuel pumps.

MAS pin 1 is a red wire from X4/10 (the power distribution block near the battery)
MAS pin 2 - black/red/white wires to the fuel pumps by way of connector X36 (fuel pump harness connector under passenger kick panel)
MAS pin 21 - violet-white circuit '50' (starter) from X27 pin 2 (X27 is the starter harness connector near the brake booster)...
MAS pin 16 - green.yellow circuit 'TD' (timing pulses) from EZL via Diagnostic Socket X11 Pin 1.
MAS PIN 11 - green/yellow circuit 'TNA' (??) to CIS_E N3 control unit pin 27 and tachometer pin 1

doesn't the SBC's ECU have some sort of 'fuel pump control' signal? I'd wire that up to a generic relay, and run the pumps off the switched side of said relay.
 

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Discussion Starter #67
the late M103 fuel pump is powered by a relay in the MAS can-o-stuff, this relay turns the pump on when it sees ignition from the engine turning over. it also runs about 1 second when the ignition is turned on to prime things. about one second after the ignition timing pulses stop, the relay shuts off the fuel pumps.

MAS pin 1 is a red wire from X4/10 (the power distribution block near the battery)
MAS pin 2 - black/red/white wires to the fuel pumps by way of connector X36 (fuel pump harness connector under passenger kick panel)
MAS pin 21 - violet-white circuit '50' (starter) from X27 pin 2 (X27 is the starter harness connector near the brake booster)...
MAS pin 16 - green.yellow circuit 'TD' (timing pulses) from EZL via Diagnostic Socket X11 Pin 1.
MAS PIN 11 - green/yellow circuit 'TNA' (??) to CIS_E N3 control unit pin 27 and tachometer pin 1

doesn't the SBC's ECU have some sort of 'fuel pump control' signal? I'd wire that up to a generic relay, and run the pumps off the switched side of said relay.
I appreciate the technical response as always.

unfortunately that confirms my suspicions. Also unfortunately this was an m104 car, and since I converted everything to carb.. there is no ECU to speak of. looks like im going to do an aux fuel pump!
 

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you could just do an aux switch to power the stock pumps. or brute force, connect a relay to ignition. your ignition system doesn't have any sort of pump control output ?

the circuit to control a fuel pump relay from the tachometer signal wouldn't be that hard... analog version would be a 'NE555' timer chip (very cheap little thing) wired up as a 'missing pulse' trigger, with a 1 second timeout. any pulse from the ignitition trigger circuit would turn it on, and 1 second after the last pulse, the 555 would turn off. this 555 in turn would drive a relay that fires the fuel pumps.
 

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oh, was this M104 w/ CIS-E (104.98x), or was it M104 HFM-SFI (104.99x) ?

the HFM cars, the fuel pump is controlled by the main engine control unit, via relay K27. The fuel pumps are connected at X36 under the passenger kickboard, same as above. relay K27 is tucked in the battery compartment at the front left corner (closest to the wiper), and has a fuse on top. this relay is triggered by power to a blue-red wire connected between K27 pin 4 and ECU pin 29. The relay gets the power for the fuel pumps directly off X4/10, the positive/alternator terminal block near the battery.

so cheesy version, wire this blue-red signal to ignition. better version, put a timer circuit in there.
 

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Discussion Starter #70
you could just do an aux switch to power the stock pumps. or brute force, connect a relay to ignition. your ignition system doesn't have any sort of pump control output ?

the circuit to control a fuel pump relay from the tachometer signal wouldn't be that hard... analog version would be a 'NE555' timer chip (very cheap little thing) wired up as a 'missing pulse' trigger, with a 1 second timeout. any pulse from the ignitition trigger circuit would turn it on, and 1 second after the last pulse, the 555 would turn off. this 555 in turn would drive a relay that fires the fuel pumps.
Well, I was going to use the stock pumps because way more pressure then I need. Now I'm contemplating saving them for a rainy day. The more I think about, the more a high volume low pressure pump system sounds appealing. Spend $40 on an inline electric fuel pump and run it at 6 psi. I dont have to worry about bringing 50-60 psi down to 6 psi then with the return system and I can quit banging my head against the wall trying to figure out these darn fittings (they seem to be compression thread, but flare fittings, and dont measure in 16ths so I'm assuming not AN).

oh, was this M104 w/ CIS-E (104.98x), or was it M104 HFM-SFI (104.99x) ?

the HFM cars, the fuel pump is controlled by the main engine control unit, via relay K27. The fuel pumps are connected at X36 under the passenger kickboard, same as above. relay K27 is tucked in the battery compartment at the front left corner (closest to the wiper), and has a fuse on top. this relay is triggered by power to a blue-red wire connected between K27 pin 4 and ECU pin 29. The relay gets the power for the fuel pumps directly off X4/10, the positive/alternator terminal block near the battery.

so cheesy version, wire this blue-red signal to ignition. better version, put a timer circuit in there.

I'm 90% confident it is an HFM motor. I'll probably run a second circuit off the switched ignition and a toggle switch. AFAIK, My coil output only has the tach reference. I could wire in a "stay running" switch, but its one more thing to potentially go wrong and I'd rather my car break down to human error rather than mechanical.

I'm fixing to have quite the gauge cluster LOL. Going to try and run with a fuel pressure, oil pressure, trans temp, coolant temp, battery voltage, tach, speedo, obviously fuel gauge, wide band o2 will come when it can.

In other news, my wife is now 39 weeks preggos (due this coming friday..) so there may be a couple week lull in production while we get situated at home.
 

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the M104.980 has a big oval air cleaner just like the M103's did. The M104.99x HFM engines have a rectangular air cleaner on the other side, and a crossover air tube to the plastic intake manifold.

re: your fuel lines, everything on a Mercedes is metric. Even if you replace the pumps, you'll still need to interface with the fuel outlet coming out of the bottom of the gas tank, which also is metric.
 

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Discussion Starter #72
It's an HFM for sure then. And the nice part about the low pressure system is that mission or worm clamps and some petroleum fuel hose will slip right over a flared end and seal properly. My old porsche 924 had a bosch mechanical fuel injection system I replaced with a carb and that solution went the same way. Wife's super beetle is mechanical fuel pump with flared lines and clamps. May seem a bit cheesy, but they did it for years and some manufacturers still use mission clamps!

Also, maybe we should change the name of the thread to "1055 and volvo discuss 1055's shitty project"
 

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Metric is what the world uses. It was way overdue for the US to start embracing the same system and lift itself out of "retardation nation" status by slowly weaning itselff off that hideous system based on fractions that sucks major @ss.
 

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Metric is what the world uses. It was way overdue for the US to start embracing the same system and lift itself out of "retardation nation" status by slowly weaning itselff off that hideous system based on fractions that sucks major @ss.
Don't hold back, sbaert. Tell us how you really feel about imperial units.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
Metric is what the world uses. It was way overdue for the US to start embracing the same system and lift itself out of "retardation nation" status by slowly weaning itselff off that hideous system based on fractions that sucks major @ss.
While I agree its a much easier system, I'm still a part of the problem, as metrics mean little to me outside of a few relevant conversions.

for example.. If you told me someone was going 200KPH, I wouldnt know whether to say holy shit or meh without some simple math conversion. I wish I knew right off the top of my head, but I think in the language I was originally taught.

What really gets me is when people say.. "It made 86Kw and 310 Nmtq." Thats straight chinese. I don't know if those are smart car or viper numbers :grin
 

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Question for 1055: How many man-hours are you into this project, and how many do you estimate remain?
 

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Well, as you said, you are a innocent victim yet part of the problem.

Metric is a piece of cake to learn. IF you can count the fingers on your hands, you've got metric covered.

Language is irrelevant as the entire world uses Metric, outside North America.

FYI, 200km/h = 125MPH

86kW = approx 110hp
 

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Speed wise, it is easy to remember because 60mph is very roughly 100kph. 200kph isn't very fast. That's my story and I'm sticking with it ;)

While I love Corvettes, and Mercedes Benz, I don't necessarily approve of mixing them up. I still find this an interesting thread, though.
 

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Metric is what the world uses. It was way overdue for the US to start embracing the same system and lift itself out of "retardation nation" status by slowly weaning itselff off that hideous system based on fractions that sucks major @ss.
the sad thing is, in the late 60s, we were TAUGHT Metric in schools, the whole US was preparing to switch over and join the rest of the world, even road speed signs were posted with dual units. The auto industry were the ones protesting they'd have to retool and it would be /expensive/ and /bad for business/. Of course, these are the same auto companies that protested against seat belts, air pollution controls, and air bags.

100 km/h is 62 MPH, close enough to 60 MPH as what doesn't matter much, so 200 km/h is about 125 MPH.
 

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Discussion Starter #80 (Edited)
Don't hold back, sbaert. Tell us how you really feel about imperial units.
:devil

Now if only we could do away with the worst language in the history of the world...

Question for 1055: How many man-hours are you into this project, and how many do you estimate remain?
HA! actually just got asked this... by my math, I'm closing in on 40 hours. I work on it mostly in 2-3 hour spurts as parts come in/ I can afford to. I would love to estimate I've got another 10-15 left. The hard work and thinking has been done, now its just finishing touches. gauges, wiring, fuel system, having the driveshaft made and some suspension maintenance. Realistically, it should be another 6-8 hours.. but every cross platform swap I've ever done has taken twice as long as I initially budgeted due to.. "hiccups".. I am keeping track of cost and time though.

Well, as you said, you are a innocent victim yet part of the problem.

Metric is a piece of cake to learn. IF you can count the fingers on your hands, you've got metric covered.

Language is irrelevant as the entire world uses Metric, outside North America.

FYI, 200km/h = 125MPH

86kW = approx 110hp
By language, I meant the imperial system. And sorry if I was a bit misleading - I know 200 kph is 125. I meant that It wasn't the first thing that came to mind.. I immediately convert it to MPH to understand the scale is all.

I've looked at the conversion for Kw to HP and consistently struggle with it on the fly even though I know its ~75 Kw = 100hp..

Speed wise, it is easy to remember because 60mph is very roughly 100kph. 200kph isn't very fast. That's my story and I'm sticking with it ;)

While I love Corvettes, and Mercedes Benz, I don't necessarily approve of mixing them up. I still find this an interesting thread, though.
Thank you for your input, I came into this expect more flak than I recieved. and I agree - 200 KPH isn't very fast LOL.

the sad thing is, in the late 60s, we were TAUGHT Metric in schools, the whole US was preparing to switch over and join the rest of the world, even road speed signs were posted with dual units. The auto industry were the ones protesting they'd have to retool and it would be /expensive/ and /bad for business/. Of course, these are the same auto companies that protested against seat belts, air pollution controls, and air bags.

100 km/h is 62 MPH, close enough to 60 MPH as what doesn't matter much, so 200 km/h is about 125 MPH.
I heard tales of these times.. Though I was born when the world was more worried about cleaning up the Exxon Valdeez (I'm 25) than converting to metrics.
 
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