Black Series software upgrade will take the de-tuned state away.
How do they DETUNE the 6.3 engine from 507HP to 451HP on C63?
Is there some simple steps to remove the detune?
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the "engine" itself is certainly capable of producing 507HP. i think de-tuned is the wrong term. manufacturers typically don't reduce HP on purpose. it is the result of external factors. when swapping a large engine into a small body (Chassis), there are restrictions on the intake and exhaust sides of the engine. intakes plenums and exhaust headers may have to be configured differently to accomodate the smaller space in the engine bay. as a result the intake and exhaust sides of the engine see more restiction and as a result make less HP. you also need to look at other things such as exhaust routing (Again more restirctive) and the catalytic converter(s), they maybe reduced in number or size (Remember smaller car with less room). All of these things will contribute to reduced HP.
They reduce timing and all sorts of engine parameters via the ECU.
Send you're ECU in and have Kleemann, Renntech, Evosport, or any other tuner change those parameters back to 507HP and may even squeeze out some more...
Send you're ECU in and have Kleemann, Renntech, Evosport, or any other tuner change those parameters back to 507HP and may even squeeze out some more...
Anybody postive compression ratios and camshafts are the same?
I'd disagree with that statement.the "engine" itself is certainly capable of producing 507HP. i think de-tuned is the wrong term. manufacturers typically don't reduce HP on purpose.
Any manufactured high performance engine that has a warranty is going to be "detuned" or is probably not putting out what it is capable of.
I'd agree with you, Merc uses the "63" in most of their AMG cars...while intake/catalytic converters/exhaust may play a part in the reduced output....I also think they "de-tune" on purpose to segregate the model lines.I'd disagree with that statement.
Any manufactured high performance engine that has a warranty is going to be "detuned" or is probably not putting out what it is capable of.
Think about it, if I could get a 507-518hp C63 for only 70K, then why get a 507hp E63 for 20 grand more, or a 518hp S63 for almost double the price???? lol
Well, and also it's just a matter of not pushing the motor to it's limits so that they are not replacing them under warranty. It's common practice with turbo'd or supercharged motors to reduce the potential power output (de-tune) with the use of waste gates or pulleys. That's what is so fun about buying cars with forced induction, it is usually very easy to modify them to produce more hp then the factory set up, with ECU retunning and fuel delivery also, and, and, and Oh god here I go again:crybaby2:I'd agree with you, Merc uses the "63" in most of their AMG cars...while intake/catalytic converters/exhaust may play a part in the reduced output....I also think they "de-tune" on purpose to segregate the model lines.
Think about it, if I could get a 507-518hp C63 for only 70K, then why get a 507hp E63 for 20 grand more, or a 518hp S63 for almost double the price???? lol
Is there anyone here who has "un-detuned" their AMG and if so, What did you do?
The tune and the exhaust routing are both factors.
"The core of C63 is the 6208 cc DOHC 32-valve V8. It is not derived from any production engines of Mercedes-Benz, but designed and developed entirely by the AMG division. This engine has been used in various AMG models, namely E63, CLS63, CLK63, S63, ML63 and CL63. The baby C63 is the last one to call its service. Naturally, installed in the tighter engine compartment resulted in somewhat compromised exhaust routing. This mean some 57 horsepower has been lost compare with the larger E63 AMG. Still, the C63 cranks out 457 horsepower at 6800 rpm, some 37 horses more than the new M3. Moreover, its maximum torque of 443 lb-ft is a massive 148 lb-ft more than the BMW !"
Click the link:
Mercedes-Benz C-class W204
I also agree with tresean1. And, 2tonOfun, :thumbsup:. I miss some my forced induction cars.
"The core of C63 is the 6208 cc DOHC 32-valve V8. It is not derived from any production engines of Mercedes-Benz, but designed and developed entirely by the AMG division. This engine has been used in various AMG models, namely E63, CLS63, CLK63, S63, ML63 and CL63. The baby C63 is the last one to call its service. Naturally, installed in the tighter engine compartment resulted in somewhat compromised exhaust routing. This mean some 57 horsepower has been lost compare with the larger E63 AMG. Still, the C63 cranks out 457 horsepower at 6800 rpm, some 37 horses more than the new M3. Moreover, its maximum torque of 443 lb-ft is a massive 148 lb-ft more than the BMW !"
Click the link:
Mercedes-Benz C-class W204
I also agree with tresean1. And, 2tonOfun, :thumbsup:. I miss some my forced induction cars.
I would agree the tune and exhaust are probably the reason for the lower hp but not because there wasn't room. If that were the case than the CLK "Black version" would have the same HP and it has 50+ more. It also has a different exhaust than a standard CLK AMG and would guess the tune is a bit different. I think it was a choice MB made and not because of size constraints.The tune and the exhaust routing are both factors.
"The core of C63 is the 6208 cc DOHC 32-valve V8. It is not derived from any production engines of Mercedes-Benz, but designed and developed entirely by the AMG division. This engine has been used in various AMG models, namely E63, CLS63, CLK63, S63, ML63 and CL63. The baby C63 is the last one to call its service. Naturally, installed in the tighter engine compartment resulted in somewhat compromised exhaust routing. This mean some 57 horsepower has been lost compare with the larger E63 AMG. Still, the C63 cranks out 457 horsepower at 6800 rpm, some 37 horses more than the new M3. Moreover, its maximum torque of 443 lb-ft is a massive 148 lb-ft more than the BMW !"
Click the link:
Mercedes-Benz C-class W204
I also agree with tresean1. And, 2tonOfun, :thumbsup:. I miss some my forced induction cars.
Just my 2 cents.
Yea, that sort of what I was saying originally, I think it was a decision to psychologically segregate the models lines to keep buyers in their prospective classes. If all the engines across the model line produced the same exact hp/torque (a la BMW), then there would be no need for huge AMG S-/CL-classes if one can get the same perfomance from a smaller, less-expensive E, CLK, SLK or CI would agree the tune and exhaust are probably the reason for the lower hp but not because there wasn't room. If that were the case than the CLK "Black version" would have the same HP and it has 50+ more. It also has a different exhaust than a standard CLK AMG and would guess the tune is a bit different. I think it was a choice MB made and not because of size constraints.
Just my 2 cents.
tresean1 is exactly right, I asked the smae question to the service manager as I might be buying this little rocket, he said exactly they detune it because of the E class, the car is 1 foot longer and 5 inches wider and they basically run the same times as a detune c63, so who would pay $25k extra for a slower car?
The loss in power is almost totally due to detune of the CPU. You can see in the graph that after 5000rpm the power is climbing less than before. Or on a Natural Aspirated engine the power is going in an almost straight line, with only a slight decrease after the maximum torque rpm. This is also sustained by the value of maximum torque wich is less by 30Nm than in a S/CL/SL, but at the same engine speed
Here is the graph C63 Powertrain Performance Graph for Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG aut. -08 (336 kW)
and look at the C55 how even it climbs Powertrain Performance Graph for Mercedes-Benz C55 AMG -05 (270 kW)
Here is the graph C63 Powertrain Performance Graph for Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG aut. -08 (336 kW)
and look at the C55 how even it climbs Powertrain Performance Graph for Mercedes-Benz C55 AMG -05 (270 kW)
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