How bad is Mercedes reliability, really?

5338 Views 66 Replies 13 Participants Last post by ccmbduong, Jun 17, 2007

mkaresh

Discussion Starter · May 18, 2007

I've heard so many horror stories about Mercedes reliability, and CR has of course not been kind.

But how large is the difference between Mercedes and competing vehicles, really?

I suspect that the difference, on average, is less than many people think. There's not much distance between CR's dots--about 0.03 problems per car for a 2006 model--and forums like this one make problems seem much more common than they actually are.

In late 2005 I started conducting my own reliability research. I'm reporting absolute stats like "times in the shop" that will make the differences between cars much clearer. Relative ratings obscure too much--how large is the difference between "better than average" and "worse than average"? I’ll also be updating results four times a year, so there will be information on new models sooner.

I'd like to provide this information on Mercedes models, but so far too few owners have signed up. I have far more owners for competing makes.

To encourage participation, panel members will receive full access to the results free of charge.

Details: Vehicle reliability research

Comments, questions, and suggestions welcome.

21 - 40 of 67 Posts

asianml

· #21 · May 19, 2007

I'm in!!

Jayhawk, you said you aren't joining because the S has had no problems. Well there's a reason to join!! Gotta balance out the unreliable to reliable ratio in the surveys. The ML hasn't had problems either, so that's why I'm joining.

mkaresh

Discussion Starter · #22 · May 19, 2007

I only collect data going forward anyway. The past doesn't necessarily predict the future. One of the things I hope to determine is the strength of the link between the two.

The main point of the research is a focus on absolute repair rates. I think many people will be surprised that even models with relatively poor reliability aren't in the shop all that often. Putting everything in terms of red and black dots can (and does) obscure this fact.

The fact of the matter is, with CR if more than 1/4 of owners of a 2006 or newer car report a problem, the model gets a big black dot. How many readers then assume that they're guaranteed to have many problems if they buy a car with a big black dot?

tirona

· #23 · May 19, 2007

mkaresh said:
Your choice whether or not to participate.

As I'm sure your recognize, every car is equally important, since the goal is to have a representative sample.

There are certainly challenges to survey research. But I've designed this research to overcome these challenges as much as possible. My sample sizes are currently small, yet the results have a great deal of face validity (i.e. they make sense).

Most recent results:

TrueDelta Vehicle Reliability Survey results

Next update will be mid-week.

I doubt it'll make much money. Hoping it'll eventually make enough to get my wife off my back. She's not crazy about the current income/time spent ratio. I believe that if I focus on providing the best possible information, the rest will take care of itself.

:nono: you don't actually think your way of evaluating vehicle reliability is reliable???!!!

:wtf:

Jayhawk

· #24 · May 19, 2007

asianml said:
I'm in!!

Jayhawk, you said you aren't joining because the S has had no problems. Well there's a reason to join!! Gotta balance out the unreliable to reliable ratio in the surveys. The ML hasn't had problems either, so that's why I'm joining.

Sorry, but I have no interest in doing all the work to provide data for anyone when I have no complaints. The only time I ever get involved in something like that is when I have a major problem. I think that is the way most people operate, which is one reason I worry about the reliability and validity of data collected on a Website like that. I have neither the time nor the energy to get involved. You will have to be the lone voice for those of us who have nothing to report--now or in the future. (I base my prediction about the future on my past experience, as do most other people.) But I wish you and our sociologist the best of luck!

mkaresh

Discussion Starter · #25 · May 19, 2007

There's hardly any work involved if your car never requires a repair. Just four approximate odometer readings a year, takes about two minutes.

I think most people will have a repair trip or two a year, so about ten minutes.

In response to the other guy, the method I'm using won't yield perfect information, but it will yield much better information than car buyers have access to today.

Mercedes owners are clearly must less interested in the research than most. So it looks like people who want reliability information on Mercedes will have to continue to rely on CR for the time being.

tirona

· #26 · May 19, 2007

:topic:

mkaresh said:
Mercedes owners are clearly must less interested in the research than most. So it looks like people who want reliability information on Mercedes will have to continue to rely on CR for the time being.

buddy, it's not that mercedes owners are not interested in your so called research, they just don't believe in it.

asianml

· #27 · May 19, 2007

tirona said:
buddy, it's not that mercedes owners are not interested in your so called research, they just don't believe in it.

Just too busy playing golf. LOL!

mkaresh

Discussion Starter · #28 · May 19, 2007 (Edited)

tirona,

My apologies. I forgot to consider that Mercedes owners are far more intelligent than people who buy other cars.

Actually, I suspect that the problem is that people who care about reliability information read CR, and as a result don't buy Mercedes. So there aren't many Mercedes owners who care about reliability information.

Just do me a favor and don't slur the research unless you've looked into the details of what I'm doing. Which I strongly suspect you have not.

For everyone else, it's a simple decision. If you feel no need for reliability information or feel that CR does a good enough job, then don't help out. If, on the other hand, you want to help provide a superior alternative to CR, this is the way to do it.

tirona

· #29 · May 19, 2007

mkaresh said:
tirona,

My apologies. I forgot to consider that Mercedes owners are far more intelligent than people who buy other cars.

that;s right. i'm glad you understand that.

asianml

· #30 · May 19, 2007

tirona said:
that;s right. i'm glad you understand that.

Ballin' with two ten year-old cars. You don't speak for the rest of us.

tirona

· #31 · May 19, 2007

mkaresh said:
tirona

Just do me a favor and don't slur the research unless you've looked into the details of what I'm doing. Which I strongly suspect you have not.

For everyone else, it's a simple decision. If you feel no need for reliability information or feel that CR does a good enough job, then don't help out. If, on the other hand, you want to help provide a superior alternative to CR, this is the way to do it.

buddy, your suspects are wrong, i did look very closely at your research. unfortunately, i have another view than yours of what real research is. but that's just my opinion.
you would have got better answers if you would have titled your thread "feedback on mercedes reliability", and not the boorish way you wrote it. don't forget that you are talking about a fine automobile. go sell your bullshit somewhere else.

mkaresh

Discussion Starter · #32 · May 19, 2007 (Edited)

I'm making no judgments on the quality of Mercedes automobiles. The title was a take on the CR-fed press stories. I see my research as a corrective, not more of the same. I feel my earlier posts in this thread make this clear.

You sure are quick to use the harshest terms to describe what I'm doing without any support. Sorry, but words like "bullshit" are no substitute for a well-reasoned argument.

Jayhawk

· #33 · May 19, 2007

mkaresh said:
There's hardly any work involved if your car never requires a repair. Just four approximate odometer readings a year, takes about two minutes.

I think most people will have a repair trip or two a year, so about ten minutes.

In response to the other guy, the method I'm using won't yield perfect information, but it will yield much better information than car buyers have access to today.

Mercedes owners are clearly must less interested in the research than most. So it looks like people who want reliability information on Mercedes will have to continue to rely on CR for the time being.

Now you're starting to worry me. You sound a lot like a typical anti-Benz "researcher." That is too bad because I was starting to consider participating...

Jayhawk

· #34 · May 19, 2007

mkaresh said:
tirona,

My apologies. I forgot to consider that Mercedes owners are far more intelligent than people who buy other cars.

Actually, I suspect that the problem is that people who care about reliability information read CR, and as a result don't buy Mercedes. So there aren't many Mercedes owners who care about reliability information.

Just do me a favor and don't slur the research unless you've looked into the details of what I'm doing. Which I strongly suspect you have not.

For everyone else, it's a simple decision. If you feel no need for reliability information or feel that CR does a good enough job, then don't help out. If, on the other hand, you want to help provide a superior alternative to CR, this is the way to do it.

Now I am convinced: You are anti-Benz and are here just to try and make your data "look" more respectable. COUNT ME OUT!

tirona

· #35 · May 19, 2007

that's what i think also. he is getting paid to make "certain" car brands look good, and others look bad, basically false advertisement.

mkaresh

Discussion Starter · #36 · May 19, 2007 (Edited)

Where do you guys get this stuff?

I'm not pro or anti any brand and I get money from no manufacturer.

I should add that I also don't think CR or JD Power or anyone else intentionally tilts their research results for or against any particular brand. We use different methods, and I think mine are better, but we're all reporting responses from owners.

Then again, I also think the moon landing actually happened.

asianml

· #37 · May 19, 2007

I don't get how you guys come to that conclusion. He has valid reasons for what he says, and you guys aren't making it any better either.

Jayhawk

· #38 · May 19, 2007

tirona said:
buddy, your suspects are wrong, i did look very closely at your research. unfortunately, i have another view than yours of what real research is. but that's just my opinion.
you would have got better answers if you would have titled your thread "feedback on mercedes reliability", and not the boorish way you wrote it. don't forget that you are talking about a fine automobile. go sell your bullshit somewhere else.

I think he titled this thread exactly the way he was thinking about it, which is what got all of our attention in the first place. I think they call it a Freudian Slip...

asianml

· #39 · May 19, 2007

Jayhawk said:
I think he titled this thread exactly the way he was thinking about it, which is what got all of our attention in the first place. I think they call it a Freudian Slip...

There you go. To get attention to his thread, no more, no less.

Jayhawk

· #40 · May 19, 2007

asianml said:
I don't get how you guys come to that conclusion. He has valid reasons for what he says, and you guys aren't making it any better either.

Sorry ML. As soon as you're old enough to get a driver's license you can vote too.

21 - 40 of 67 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.