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Discussion Starter #1
hi,

thinking about getting a 200D.
Anyone have any DRIVINGexperiences???
positive & n...


hi,

thinking about getting a 200D.
Anyone have any DRIVINGexperiences???
positive & negative please...

(I know I posted some kind of this before, but maybe there are new people who want to share their opinion)

thanks for any input.

greetzzz

matteus
 

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I have seen stats on 200D's but none were imported to the USA. I have 83 300D Euro as dail...

I have seen stats on 200D's but none were imported to the USA. I have 83 300D Euro as daily driver. Enjoy it
immensely. There are many subtle differences between the euro 123's and the north american versions.

I would imagine the 200D gets some extra mpgs.
Our 300D euro is a pleasure to drive with over 256K on the odometer. My son and I bought it as a bad transmision car. Then put a replacement auto trans from a wrecked 80 USA 300D.

Later vs older can be a diffence. I like the fast glow
on the later, better vacuum pump, easier to replace air compressor, (will take R134 conversion better too on the latter 123's

Look a front end condition a pita to rebuild if needed. lower ball joints and tie rods not so bad.

Is the 200D your looking at a stick? A plus for longevity. BUt the stick gets old to drive in heavy traffic. I am selling my 77 240D stick because no one else likes the stick.

Once you have tried sunroof you don't want to live without one. THe euro sunroofs are often manual, so your the motor, a good thing because the USA electic sun roofs can be trouble prone over time.
John Gregg
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm not actually looking at a particular car right now, I'm just thinking about getting ...

I'm not actually looking at a particular car right now, I'm just thinking about getting one.
also, I'm in Europe so it will be a Euro modell.
and I'm looking for a stick ofcourse, otherwise it is toooooo slow...

thx for the input though.
 

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We are fortunate in Dallas, Texas. From the late 70's to mid 80's Park Place Mercedes had ...

We are fortunate in Dallas, Texas. From the late 70's to mid 80's Park Place Mercedes had the highest Mercedes sales volume on the planet, the heydey of diesels in the USA.

Now unlike in Europe few diesels being sold except for
industrial trucks and high end pick up trucks.

If I remember right around 10K for a 300D in Europe, over 30K in USA. Later 82 to 85 300D's in the USA are all turbos.

Good luck in finding a 123 series. I have 11 current Benz in my collection.
John Gregg
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Turbo?

Does anyone know if there exists a Turbo-kit for the 200diesel or the 240diesel???
would appreciate any input.

greetzz,

matteus
 

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Hi!

In Sweden GIK sells kits for MB diesels. I know they used to have a kit for 240D bu...


Hi!

In Sweden GIK sells kits for MB diesels. I know they used to have a kit for 240D but it´s no longer present in the pricelist. A 300D conversion kit is still availible.
I´ve heard from someone that the 300TDT has lines that blows oil under the pistons for cooling. You will miss that with a conversion kit. Check out if it´s needed. Otherwise I think you should go for a 300D if you find one, but i think you got some bad tax regulations depending on the engine size. Am I right? I know that Volvo had some special editions with 1.9 and 2.0 litre engines instead of 2.3 as in the common ones for export to such markets.

Take a look at: http://www.gikturbo.se/gikturbo.html

Look at "prislistor" (pricelists)
By the way: 1 euro= about 9.1 SEK

Anders
 

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Discussion Starter #7
hm, yes indeed the tax-system here in belgium is very stupid!
A 300d or even a 240D are...


hm, yes indeed the tax-system here in belgium is very stupid!
A 300d or even a 240D are way to expensive for me as a student. the 240 costs me about $750 and the 300 about $1150 (!!!). the 200D is about $475, so that's relatively reasonable.
Ofcourse you can say I must go for a gas engine then, because the taxes are little, but then, it doesn't give me an overall profit at the end of the year, even the opposite! 1 Litre of diesel here: $0.7 ,
1 litre of petrol: $1.1. Plus the gas drinks more than the diesel.

hm,

At the moment I don't see an alternative for the 200D.
So it's slow, but that's why I'm searching for a turbokit.
If anyone has any other idea's, plz let me know.
(although I'd like to stay in the 123 series)

Thanks everyone,

regards,

matteus
 

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Hi again!

Hm, I thought so. As there have been kits for 240D there may be a chance that...


Hi again!

Hm, I thought so. As there have been kits for 240D there may be a chance that they would fit. I´m not familiar with the 200D but if the inlet and exhaust manifolds are about the same, and the injection pump is a Bosch "row-type" it,s maybe just a question if the turbo is too big to work on the 200.

Here in Sweden the tax depends on car weight and my 300D costs about $800. But if I throw out the back seat and put a "load-guard" behind the drivers and passenger seat the car can be registrated as a small truck. The tax will then just be about $140!!
No less stupid tax-system in Sweden either. But I need the back seat though, so I have to pay
[:(].

Anders
 

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Discussion Starter #9
man that really sucks!!!

Here in belgium you also can convert your car to a 'small tr...


man that really sucks!!!

Here in belgium you also can convert your car to a 'small truck' (or here they say 'light cargo'). but it is only possible on 4*4's and for stationwagons.
BUT: here in belgium Mercedes decided that you can't put a merc on light cargo (just maybe a short G, but no LWB version, no T-models...) because they thought it would damage their status to much...[V][B)][xx(][:(!][:(]
Otherwise a car on 'light cargo' costs about $50 (!!!) per year!!!!

But back to the 200D. I think it does have the same injection system as the 240D, just a little adjusted.
I don't really know about the exhaustmanifold though.

I heard you can adjust the amount of injected fuel on those old diesels, and get maybe 5 bhp more. But i've also heard that the car smokes a lot then and that you don't really notice the difference.
Are their any other enginemods that can be performed (maybe an air filter,...)???

thx,

cyu

matteus
 

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So it´s not just in Sweden the rules sometimes makes you scratch your head!
I think ther...


So it´s not just in Sweden the rules sometimes makes you scratch your head!
I think there´s no other way than a turboconversion if you should get any more power worth the name. Often these old diesels will run a bit cheaper with a turbo at longer trips.
The easiest way though, is just to get used to the low effekt. I used to have a Saab turbo at the time I bought my first Benz. The 300D felt VERY slow then. But now it´s quite OK. And though the Saab was 5 years old when I bought it and the Benz was 12 years (and now 20 years), the Benz still feels like a more reliable car. It was 1996 I bought the Benz as a "second car" for traveling a long way to work, but now It´s our only car (got i nice 300D more in the garage for summertime use though with 190´kms)and I just can´t find any other car to take it´s place although I can afford it. Buy a W123 diesel and you maybe just don´t want any other car.
I´m thinking of buying one of the latest W124 TD´s but it wont be the same as the W123 and as you hear people talking, the W210 is just to forget if you are looking for those old MB qualities.

Good luck with yoour comming Benz! / Anders
 

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Discussion Starter #11
yes that is totally true.
My dad has a 210 '00 E320 CDI T-modell, and ok, it is a very ...


yes that is totally true.
My dad has a 210 '00 E320 CDI T-modell, and ok, it is a very nice looking car, and it drives very very wel indeed. Also al those luxury gadgets that you get are very cool to play with.
But, it's a fact that it doesn't have quite that soul that the old ones have.
Also now that mercedes is taken over (early 90's) by economic thinking salesspecialists, you have the feeling that the buildquality is a little less. There's still good reliability, but you get the feeling its starting to miss that to, you know.

We have always driven Benzes in our family, and NO car has EVER let us down. Our previous was a W124 300TD manual, has 400.000kms, and still looks very very good. but the most important thing is that NEVER EVER has ANYTHING gone wrong or broken on it.

You say you'd look out for a late W124.
I'd advice you the 136 or 147BHP 300Turbodiesel engine. nice power, good performance, and ofcourse, the real MB's reliability. If you want to go for a COMPLETLY bulletproof engine, the 300Diesel non turbo is the best you can get.

wel,
nice chatting we have here.

greetzz,

matteus


ow yes, i forgot, I asked my dad about the 200D-240D question, and he says the two engines have the same exhaustmanifold and the same injectionsystem. So maybe if I can find a turbo, it might be intresting.

cya
 

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Turbo kits are around but do not have a big pay off.
The aftermarket kits just provide 5 ...


Turbo kits are around but do not have a big pay off.
The aftermarket kits just provide 5 to 7 HP?
The factory 300D turbo kit that really provides a bang will blow a non turbo into a boat anchor in minutes. Maybe buying the whole 300D turbo engine from a wreck and swapping it in would work unless there are concientious inspectors that would notice and insist on the higher tax rate etc.

It would be a screamer, since the 200D has a higher rear end ratio to partly compensate for the smaller engine.
John Gregg
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Re: Turbo kits are around but do not have a big pay off.The aftermarket kits just provide 5

Turbo kits are around but do not have a big pay off.
The aftermarket kits just provide 5 to 7 HP?
The factory 300D turbo kit that really provides a bang will blow a non turbo into a boat anchor in minutes. Maybe buying the whole 300D turbo engine from a wreck and swapping it in would work unless there are concientious inspectors that would notice and insist on the higher tax rate etc.

It would be a screamer, since the 200D has a higher rear end ratio to partly compensate for the smaller engine.
John Gregg

But noooo! That's just the point! If it was so easy to swap engines or even just buy a 300D turbo, it would be no problem. But a 300 costs so much tax I cant pay it, it's just to much (remember I don't have a job).
When a car is oldtimer I pay about $50 for any car per year, but the problem now is that they are planning to extend the age of 'oldtimerness' from 25 years to 28 years. when it is 25, I could go for an early 300, and then maybe snap a turbo on it(if that's even necessery), but now I can't buy a 123 that's oldtimer.

That's the big problem.

Is that true that it only delivers 5-7hp gain?? why would GIK make any turbo's for it in the first place when the gain is so little? And so what, 5-7hp gain, means maybe 15-30 NM torque gain.
And I'm not so sure of what you say is true, cause I read in the 'Mercedes Tuning' book I have, that there are turbo's that bring the 200D to 72BHP (wich isn't that much but the torque is the most important thing with a diesel), the 240D to 90BHP and the non-turbo 300D to about 115-120BHP.

I'm certain that these engines can have the 'stress' of a turbo coming in. Don't forget these engines (200D, 240D, 300D) were designed as truckengines, that means there made to resist a lot of stress.


greetzzz

matteus
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I took my 'mercedes tuning' book to me. I'm going to type two pieces of text directly ou...

I took my 'mercedes tuning' book to me. I'm going to type two pieces of text directly out of the book.
It's german, but I think the most important things you'll understand.

-"Ganz andere Schwerpunkte bestimmen das Programm von GFG Turbo und Technik. Ausgangspunkt der Aktivitäten bei GFG waren Turbomotoren fur Daimler-Benz-Dieselmotoren, inbesondere für den W123. So sind der 240D mit maximal 92PS, der 300D mit maximal 115PS - in serie waren dies 88PS - erhältlich.

That was the first piece of text, now the second:

-Die Aktivitäten von Tubo-Motors liegen auf dem Gebiet des Motortunings und, wie der Firmenname es andeutet, der Aufladung mittels Turbolader. Für die Aggregate der Baureihe W123 hält Turbo-Motors einen leistungssteigernden Bausatz für den 300D (115PS statt 88PS serie) sowie für den 280E (220PS statt 185PS serie) bereit. Für den 240D-motor mit einer serienmässigen Leistung von 65PS beziehungsweise 72PS steigert Turbo-Motors die kraft auf 82PS beziehungsweise 90PS. Ein besonderer Hochleistungskit schafft laut Angaben des Herstellers sogar 100PS. Bei der 200D-variante legt sich Turbo-Motors nicht absolut fest, sondern spricht von einer relativen Leistungshöherung von zirka 25% bei der Standard-Turboanlage und von zirka 45% bei der Hochleistungsturboanlage.

So, that was it.
I don't know if either of these companies still exist, because the book dates from 1987. But this doesn't mean I can't find any systems of them anymore.

If anyone doesn't understand certain words or sentences in the text, plz let me know, I'll translate the best I can.

greetzzz

Matteus
 

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But noooo! That's just the point! If it was so easy to swap engines or even just buy a 300...

But noooo! That's just the point! If it was so easy to swap engines or even just buy a 300D turbo, it would be no problem. But a 300 costs so much tax I cant pay it, it's just to much (remember I don't have a job).
When a car is oldtimer I pay about $50 for any car per year, but the problem now is that they are planning to extend the age of 'oldtimerness' from 25 years to 28 years. when it is 25, I could go for an early 300, and then maybe snap a turbo on it(if that's even necessery), but now I can't buy a 123 that's oldtimer.

That's the big problem.

Is that true that it only delivers 5-7hp gain?? why would GIK make any turbo's for it in the first place when the gain is so little? And so what, 5-7hp gain, means maybe 15-30 NM torque gain.
And I'm not so sure of what you say is true, cause I read in the 'Mercedes Tuning' book I have, that there are turbo's that bring the 200D to 72BHP (wich isn't that much but the torque is the most important thing with a diesel), the 240D to 90BHP and the non-turbo 300D to about 115-120BHP.

I'm certain that these engines can have the 'stress' of a turbo coming in. Don't forget these engines (200D, 240D, 300D) were designed as truckengines, that means there made to resist a lot of stress.


greetzzz

matteus

It is the extra cooling and oil flow that keeps the 5
cyl turbo together. Low horsepower is often mad up by more low end torque. On my diesel truck the 441 Cubic
inch Ford Diesel gets about the same torque as my pals
460 inch gas Ford truck. The diesel gets torque when needed max at 1800 rpm vs almost 4000 for the gas truck.

If you have pal handy with a turbo to try they are fun! If you were in Dallas. I would let you try differnt 123 diesels to see who they run. Sometimes even the same version can have substantial differences in power. I haven't fully tried my 78 280CE gas yet. Just today daughter took it and got it inspected, and picked up some parts for it.
John Gregg
 

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curious about the text

I am curious about the translation. Can only handle English and Spanish.

Some of the turbos have likely even been scrapped.
I am sure some are laying around waiting for a buyer.

Not having a job can be fun, a good time to read great books, sleep to 9AM etc. Enjoy it while you can!
John Gregg
 

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Discussion Starter #17
hehe,
yes, but I do have to go to highschool 34 hours in the week for the next two yea...


hehe,
yes, but I do have to go to highschool 34 hours in the week for the next two years, and after that 2 or 3 years 32hours of university in the week.[8D][8)][;)][:eek:)]
 

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MB 200D

If you don't mind 0-60 in about 30 seconds, no problem. Even my 240D is dangerous to drive at today's speeds. Also, long uphill climbs can be quite embarrassing (the big heavy trucks just leave YOU in the dust.)

Go for a turbo-diesel...the normally aspirated engines are not built for the turbo add-ons.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Re: MB 200D

If you don't mind 0-60 in about 30 seconds, no problem. Even my 240D is dangerous to drive at today's speeds. Also, long uphill climbs can be quite embarrassing (the big heavy trucks just leave YOU in the dust.)

Go for a turbo-diesel...the normally aspirated engines are not built for the turbo add-ons.
TURBO-DIESEL???

so, tell me wich one???
If you're thinking about a 300, leave it, and rather read the whole forum again[;)][:0][|)]

.


matteus
 

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Re: I took my 'mercedes tuning' book to me. I'm going to type two pieces of text directly ou

I took my 'mercedes tuning' book to me. I'm going to type two pieces of text directly out of the book.
It's german, but I think the most important things you'll understand.

-"Ganz andere Schwerpunkte bestimmen das Programm von GFG Turbo und Technik. Ausgangspunkt der Aktivitäten bei GFG waren Turbomotoren fur Daimler-Benz-Dieselmotoren, inbesondere für den W123. So sind der 240D mit maximal 92PS, der 300D mit maximal 115PS - in serie waren dies 88PS - erhältlich.

That was the first piece of text, now the second:

-Die Aktivitäten von Tubo-Motors liegen auf dem Gebiet des Motortunings und, wie der Firmenname es andeutet, der Aufladung mittels Turbolader. Für die Aggregate der Baureihe W123 hält Turbo-Motors einen leistungssteigernden Bausatz für den 300D (115PS statt 88PS serie) sowie für den 280E (220PS statt 185PS serie) bereit. Für den 240D-motor mit einer serienmässigen Leistung von 65PS beziehungsweise 72PS steigert Turbo-Motors die kraft auf 82PS beziehungsweise 90PS. Ein besonderer Hochleistungskit schafft laut Angaben des Herstellers sogar 100PS. Bei der 200D-variante legt sich Turbo-Motors nicht absolut fest, sondern spricht von einer relativen Leistungshöherung von zirka 25% bei der Standard-Turboanlage und von zirka 45% bei der Hochleistungsturboanlage.

So, that was it.
I don't know if either of these companies still exist, because the book dates from 1987. But this doesn't mean I can't find any systems of them anymore.

If anyone doesn't understand certain words or sentences in the text, plz let me know, I'll translate the best I can.

greetzzz

Matteus
to: dfwdiesel

- (First sentence says nothing important). The point of perspective of the activities in GFG Were the Turbo-engines for DB-dieselengines, especially for the W123. That way the 240D is good for max. 92HP, and the 300D for 115HP - standard 88HP.

- The activities from 'Turbo-Motors' are in the area of enginetuning. The firm name tells it specialises in Turbo-systems. For the systems for the W123, Turbo-Motors offers a powerincrease for the 300D (115HP instead of 88HP serie) and also for the 280E (220HP instead of 185HP serie). For the 240D-engine with the small output of 65 or 72HP, Turbo-Motors has a turbokit that makes 82HP (for the 65) and 90HP (for the 72). A special 'high output' turbo-kit gives the 240D around 100HP. The turbocharched output of the 200D isn't exactly defined. The 'normal' kit brings a gain of about 25%, the 'high output' kit gives about 45% horsepower gain.

so, I did my best (remember, you asked a flamish guy to translate from german to english[^][:eek:)][:eek:)][8D][:D][:eek:)]).

I don't understand why everyone says no to the turbocharging of the 200D/240D engines? I mean, those companies arent the first the best to make some turbo's and snap them on. They are companies who made it big by probably selling good products.
Also: I know a NA engine is supposed to be NA, but there are enough examples that prove turbo/super-charging isn't a bad thing. And besides, are these engines (200D/240D) so weak they can't resist a turbo?
And what about the 300D? In the beginning it also was supposed to be a NA engine, but they snapped a turbo on that one! These engines are originally TRUCK-engines, this means they're made to resist a lot of stress. A turbo isn't going to blow it apart, is it???

I'm just following logic here. I'm not a pro-mechanic or anything.
I was always told (and still told) that these engines are undestructable, so the idea of a turbo on them doesn't really scare me.

(just my humble mindwork[^])

greets,

matteus
 
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