‘Too Dangerous to Drive’: 2010-2022 Mercedes-Benz Models Plagued by Rear Subframe Rust Defect, Class Action Says

A proposed class action alleges a number of 2010-2022 model year Mercedes-Benz vehicles have subframes that can prematurely rust or corrode “from the inside out."

www.classaction.org

 

Hi All
I worked with 4 US Law Firms and the NHTSA from September 2022 to February 2023, to force MB USA and MB Canada to issue the above Extended Warranty Notice (EWN), as over in the USA and Canada they do not have the 30 Year Anti-perforation Corrosion Warranty that we have over here in the UK and Europe - we currently claim under this Warranty in the UK/Europe since MB change their policy on subframe replacement over the New Year Period although since the beginning of August MB do seem to be returning to replacing subframes as 'Goodwill Gestures'. I must point out that the EWN Only Applies to the USA and Canada it DOES NOT apply to the UK or Europe! Owners in the UK and Europe should contact me at: dave@castellni.co.uk; and I will send the appropriate Information Sheets out to them. I hope that this clarifies the situation regarding the EWN and the 30 Year Anti-perforation Corrosion Warranty so that everyone knows the requirements for both methods. I do have information sheets that cover the EWN and the 30 Year A-pCW should owners require the information to progress their subframe claims, I hope this has been helpful Dave Evans

 

Posted for Dave Evans. Will be updated when new info becomes available.


Q: ;Things have moved on a little since I started a couple of years ago - in the USA our pressure has forced MB, through MBUSA to issue an Extended Warranty Notice which has resulted in owners in the US now being able to get their subframes replaced FOC and to be able to retrospectively claim for subframe replacements they have had to have done in 3rd Party Garages due to the intransigence of MBUSA. In the UK and Europe it is still generally on an individual claim basis but, as the owners all share a copy of the draft email I produce for them to personalise, the claim process is pretty straight forward. Unfortunately, not all MB dealerships are as good as each other. some dealerships try and charge owners for components that should be/are covered by the MB Goodwill Warranty even down to charging for new bolts to fit the subframe because the old ones were corroded - if components that are attached to, for example, the subframe are corroded, they should be deemed to be as flawed as the subframe itself and should be covered under the warranty - the same applies to rear suspension links they should also be covered under the warranty! there are also issues with the front to rear brake-pipes - One dealership has been known to replace them FOC where as other dealerships have quoted £2600 to replace them??? my contact in MB tells me that in their dealership they charge 3 hours labour when the brake pipes are replaced along with the subframe - my view is that with the amount of iron oxide being flushed out of the subframe and passing over the brake-pipes that they should also be replaced under warranty this is an ongoing fight currently. I am glad that I am able to help so many owners through our Owners Club Facebook Page and through this Forum it keeps owner safe and serviceable cars on the road. I look forward to continuing to support owners from the BenzWorld Forum as the fight continues, if you get an opportunity, go on our Owners Club Facebook Page (SLK Owners Club. Co.UK) I publish monthly reports on the subframe issues and other MB related issues that I deal with

 

Good observations. On a dealer serviced 2012 GL450 in Fort Mitchell KY, we had a $19,000 estimate to replace rusted brake lines. A well maintained vehicle, 12 old, could be sent to the junkyard by this measure. Thank you for sharing this is a known issue.

 

Posted for Dave Evans

Mercedes Benz Models: Rear Subframe Replacement Information
What is it?
The possibility that Owners of SLK also C-Class and E-Class Models can claim for a FOC replacement rear subframe because theirs has serious corrosion/cracking issues, making the rear subframe, unsafe due to issues with the manufacturing process. The SLK Owners Club support owners of ALL affected models.
What Models are involved?
There are 11 Models that are affected by the Rear Subframe Corrosion Issue – these are listed on a Supplementary Service Document (SSD) Mercedes-Benz Service Information Supplement Sheet, S135.00-P-0009A, dated 05.11.2018. which cover 171, 172, 203, 204, 205, 207, 209, 212, 218, 231, 253 Models. (Although other MB models are affected).
What are the Consequences of a Corroded rear subframe?
The corrosion and cracking can cause instability in; handling, cornering and fast driving, resultant MOT Failure, and, in extreme situations, the collapse of the rear subframe with its potential consequences.
MOT Tests and other Safety Inspections in various countries?
In most cases, the first thing the owner knows about the corrosion is when the car fails the MOT (or equivalent dependant on country), or, in some cases, when the subframe collapses. Unfortunately, in less than 2% of cases of MOT failure or subframe collapse, there are no ‘Advisories’ on the subframes’ condition, on the previous year’s MOT’s.
Why doesn’t the corrosion get picked up on previous MOT’s?
The main issue is that the corrosion starts inside the subframe and corrodes its way out. So, by the time it is visible on the outside, it’s too late. The failures are usually under welded mountings so are difficult to identify on MOT’s.
What is the process for claiming?
Contact the ‘Club Support Contact’ for a copy of the ‘Rear Subframe Replacement Information Sheet’ and follow the instructions; General Methodology; there is also a draft email for owners to personalise and send off to - Mercedes Benz Customer Service UK (MBCS UK) and ask about getting the subframe inspected and possibly replaced? They will inform owners that they will need to get the subframe inspected by a Mercedes Benz Dealership in their area (NOTE - MB will not accept a 3rd Party Garage report or MOT Failure Sheets).
Contact the local Dealership and Book the vehicle in for a Safety Check and Rear Subframe Inspection. (NOTE - there are some Good Dealerships and some Dealerships that should be Avoided, ask for help identifying a Good Dealership from the Club Support Contact).
What does this entail and, what does it Cost?
The Dealership will offer you a time to bring the vehicle in for the inspection. The Inspection is generally carried out FOC (Free of Charge) the Dealership produces a video of the safety check and email it to the Owner.
The subframe should be inspected, using an Endoscope (if possible) to look inside the subframe and check for corrosion and cracking.
What happens if the Dealership wants to Charge for the inspection?
Generally, if the Dealership wants to charge for the inspection, the owner mentions that they are a member of: SLKOwnersClub.Co.UK and, that Club members Nationwide, have had theirs inspected FOC. If the Dealership still wish to charge, it is suggested that the owner take it to another Dealership.
What happens next?
This depends on the Dealership – Good Dealerships; If the subframe requires replacement, they pass on the results of the inspection on to MBCS UK, requesting authority to replace the subframe due to the corrosion.
In most cases, if the subframe is seriously corroded and requires changing, the Dealership will retain the vehicle until the subframe has been replaced – this is for Safety Reasons as a substantial number of Club members have had their subframes collapse whilst they have been driving the vehicle. So, this is a positive action on the part of the Dealership. It is worth noting, that the owner may need have to arrange transport to return home without their vehicle.
What happens when the vehicle is repaired?
There may be delays, as the quantity of subframes available in the country at any one time, can be limited and sometimes owners must wait for subframes, and/or components, to be delivered from the manufacturer.
The subframe and its component parts ‘should’ be replaced FOC under the Mercedes Benz Goodwill Warranty, Some Dealerships may try to charge for replacement of components that are attached to the subframe.
When the owner collects the vehicle, they may be given a Receipt/Invoice, stating that the subframe has been changed (It is worth noting that Dealerships only give detailed invoices, in about 1/5 of cases).
What do owners do next?
It is suggested that owners should invest in an endoscope to check on the new subframe and, apply protection to the new subframe inside and out once it has been fitted, to ensure that the subframe does not corrode again.
Dealerships?
The Club Support Contact has compiled two lists directly from feedback from owners who have used them to change their subframes; 1) Good Dealerships – a list of dealerships that have been used by owners and undertake the Safety Checks FOC and don’t overcharge for any additional work or parts and, 2) Dealerships To Avoid – dealerships that charge for the Safety Checks or try and charge for components that are covered by the Goodwill Warranty – we DO NOT promote the dealerships on this list, to our owners.
Possible Issues and Actions

Issue	Action
The Dealership may want to charge for the inspection	This should be challenged as Club members, Nationwide, have had theirs inspected FOC. If the Dealership still want to charge, try another Dealership.
Dealership may want the owner to sign a pre-agreement, agreeing to pay up to £1800 in advance, for components that may have to be replaced as part of the subframe change	On no account should the owner sign such an agreement, *Contact Club Support for information and support in this matter!
The Dealership may try to charge for the replacement of component parts (sometimes Dealerships say that they can’t get components off the old subframe) despite them being serviceable.	This should be challenged by the owner, contact the Club Support Contact as, according to the emailed letter from a Dealership Group, replacement of the subframe and its components should be covered by the MB Goodwill Warranty
The Dealerships say that the subframe is Safe and Serviceable after inspection.	Request a receipt to that effect, and always get a second opinion with an Independent Garage. One club member had theirs collapse, 5 days after an MOT inspection, which showed that the subframe was visually serviceable.
Are there any components not covered by the MB Goodwill Warranty?	Yes, Rear shock absorbers and road springs also hubs & bearings, callipers (inc. Pads & discs), brake pipes.
Despite the Dealership saying that the subframe should be replaced due to corrosion, MBCS UK refuse to replace it	*Contact Club Support and request further information and support to the Stage 2 part of the claim process. And have further steps up to Senior Management in MB in Germany
Dealership refuse to inspect the subframe	Try another Dealership and report the dealership to Club Support
Dealership don’t undertake Tracking or 4-wheel alignment after subframe replacement	The Dealership should undertake tracking and/or 4-wheel alignment as a part of the subframe change.
Dealership may want to charge for and replace the brake-pipes under the subframe as part of the change.	This is down to the owner, the cost of this work should be ascertained prior to work starting – so beware! Some MB Dealerships have quoted up to £2600 to replace the brake-pipes!!! *Contact Club Support
Some Dealerships may try and charge for Bolts and Nuts to fit the subframe to the chassis/body	These should be covered by the MB Goodwill Warranty these charges should be argued *Contact Club Support
Some Dealerships or MBCS UK refuse to replace subframe if it has been welded.	Owners should point out that the subframe wouldn’t have needed welding if they hadn’t been rotten in the first place! 30+ of the subframes that have been changed FOC, had been welded.

Some Dealerships request that the vehicle has a Full Mercedes Benz Service History. (FMBSH)	Out of the 300+ subframes that have been changed FOC across the range, only ONE has had anything like a FMBSH
What if there is a Subframe Failure/collapse?	There would be a loss of control of the vehicle, rear wheel collapse/loss, carefully drive the car to safety or, have the vehicle recovered safely.
Subframe identified as being severely/dangerously corroded either, by a service garage or an MOT Testing Centre	Have the subframe inspected as soon as possible for safety reasons and drive the vehicle carefully to the nearest Dealership.
How to go about finding a Good Dealership in the owners’ area	The Club Support Contact had compiled a list of ‘Good Dealerships’ and ‘Dealerships to be Avoided’, in most areas of the UK and Northern Ireland, information is only compiled from Owners/Members Feedback.

What help is available on the Club site for this Corrosion Issue?
The Club Expert has accumulated a substantial amount of information and data regarding this issue and they have produced a number of ‘Rear Subframe Replacement Information Sheets’ for various Stages of the Claims Process, for SLK R171’s & R172’s, various C & E-Class and other Mercedes Models suffer from similar corrosion issues.

The Information Sheets and other support information is available to all SLK Owners from the Club Support Contact - Dave Evans on the SLKOWNERSCLUB.CO.UK - Facebook Page or, by Email to: dave@castellni.co.uk; or, on the BenzWorld Forum.

 

Have just been informed by local independent garage that my E220d W212 has badly corroded rear subframe. I live in the UK. Could you advise on any action I need to take. Car is booked in for Mercedes inspection in two days time
Thanks
Colin

 

Posted for Dave Evans

Subframe Corner Update for SLK Owners Club Facebook Page - 31/05/2023


Hi folks, yes, it’s that time again, below is the latest monthly ‘Recorded Data’ Update, covering the period from March 2021 to 31 May 2023.
This report is mainly on the SLK R171, but also on other MB Models, regarding the rear subframe corrosion situation, keeping you informed of owners’ progress, successes, and other related rear subframe issues. There are also other issues with MB vehicles that we have also started to work with owners to challenge MB about.
Regarding R171 claims: We have now been contacted by 805 - R171 Owners in total and, are working with 350+ of them. 173 of these owners have come through BenzWorld/MBOC, most are from the UK and Northern Ireland but, we are still working with owners in Europe (Republic of Ireland, Isle of Man, Guernsey, Poland, Holland, France, Spain, Norway, Netherlands, Bulgaria, Belarus, Germany, Cyprus, Romania) also owners in; Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the USA (with ALL affected MB Models) most US Owners are currently asking for guidance with regard to the new ‘Extended Warranty Notice’.
With the R171, we have had 274 subframes replaced or authorised for replacement FOC (this includes 23 members whose vehicles are in Dealerships having subframes changed or are waiting for parts atm).
The latest count shows that we have had 40 - R171 subframes that have collapsed, whilst the cars were being driven, fortunately, there have been no serious injuries and no fatalities in our Owners Club. I have, made a FoI Request to Nottingham Police, requested information on the accident video posted on the Club Facebook page of a post from, ‘Mail On-line’ to see if the SLK involved, was inspected at the time, regarding the condition of the subframe?
Currently, 49 of the subframes that have been inspected, have been passed as ‘Serviceable’, by MB Dealerships. As a matter of course, we have suggested that the owners have their subframes inspected by an Independent Garage to ensure that they are safe. This is advised, after one of our owners’ subframe collapsed less than 2 months after being passed as serviceable by MB.
We have also had 31 owners out of a total of 39, who have had their subframes changed FOC, despite them having been welded and, we have 8 owners with welded subframes, waiting for theirs to be inspected. Worryingly, we have recently had an issue with some, initially, ‘Good List’ Dealerships making their own decisions as to whether the welded subframes should be replaced, this takes the decision away from, MBCS UK who are not given the option to approve the replacement of welded subframes, on the previous report, it can be seen that this seemed to have been successfully challenged and was over-turned by Management in Germany. Unfortunately, things have not returned to the way it was in the past. Dealerships should not be making the decisions; this is up to MBCS UK!! This issue has been brought to the attention of senior management in MB Germany! I have produced a draft email for owners to personalise and send, along with their Video recording, initially, to MBCS UK and if they don’t act, we can use a similar email to escalate the issue to the Directors and CEO of Mercedes Benz Cars AG in Germany.
There is still a lack of consistency in these decisions. A couple of owners were left only with the option, to contact MB senior management in Germany which they did, and Senior Management in Germany investigated the issues and overturned the Dealership and MBUK decisions.
I have had some dealerships moved to the ‘To Avoid’ List, and will no longer promote this dealership with owners, and, moved some Dealerships to the ‘Good List’, again, all positions will be kept under review!
Some Dealerships (now on my ‘To Avoid’ List) are still demanding a signed agreement from Owners, that the owner will agree to pay costs, up to £1800, for “components they ‘may’ have to replace”, in advance of work starting (owners SHOULD NOT agree to this!! Contact me if this is requested!! It is important that owners challenge this, I will send them information that should help. I have also suggested that, if this doesn’t work, that they should take their cars to another dealership, from a different Dealership Group. There has been some movement from these initial challenges, dealerships undertake the subframe replacement and are, generally, changing their minds about pursuing or at least substantially, reducing these charges – as you know, have new contact information for senior MB Management in Daimler/Mercedes-Benz AG in Germany, which we will continue to use, if/when we escalate any complaints. Some other dealership issues/complaints are still being investigated and will be reported back on in due course!
We still, occasionally, have some owners who are receiving the initial reply from MBCS UK, saying that owners should have a FMBSH, and that they should take the car to an MB Dealership for a Safety Check! NOTE: We still only have ONE owner out of the 273 who have had their subframes replaced FOC, with anything like a FMBSH.
There is still a reluctance, on the part of MB Dealerships, to detail the replacement of the rear subframe on receipts/invoices, for Owners’ Service History, as under a 1/5 are being recorded on owners’ receipts/invoices. Currently, of the owners who have responded; 21 SLK owners have a ‘subframe replaced’ receipt and, 127 have not.
There is still a concern, that some MB Dealerships are still trying to coerce owners to pay for parts which should be covered by the Warranty, i.e., nuts, bolts, brackets, Mountings, etc. and some of the prices quoted, do appear excessive for what is identified (Up to £1200)!! Again, we challenge this behaviour! We have had one dealership wanting to charge £2300 to replace brake pipes and fuel pipe stating that it will take 13 hours?? I spoke to a MB Dealership Workshop Manager who says that there isn’t a ‘set’ time for the brake-pipe replacement but, in their dealership, they charge around 2 - 3 hours labour if the brake-pipes are replaced with a subframe replacement.
It is good to see, that MB are still undertaking subframe replacements and, the current turn-around time on authorisation does, in general, seem to be substantially quicker, unfortunately there seems to be a shortage of subframes in the UK at the moment, which does slow the actual turn-round time and, Dealerships are currently saying that it can take up to 6 weeks or longer, we are challenging this both Locally (MBCS UK) and with the Directors and CEO of D/MB AG in Germany.
I keep getting requests from owners questioning timescales for the supply of new subframes – mainly R171’s, but including C & E-Class – I have produced a draft email for owners to send to MBCS UK to see if they can help provide some sort of timescale? I have also drafted an email for owners to send to the Directors and CEO on D/MB AG in Germany, I have heard from an owner who used the draft email to contact the Directors and CEO of Daimler Mercedes-Benz AG in Germany, about timescales for delivery – the CEO was not happy with the reasons given for the delays, and contacted the dealership, the subframe was delivered within a few days and fitted, there were no additional charges! Success!
There had been issues importing new subframes into Germany, from wherever MB were importing them?
I have heard from an owner, who has been informed by a dealership, that MB have changed their subframe manufacturer and, that the new subframes are supposed to be rust protected inside, we will have to see whether this is right but, in any case, I would treat the inside with Waxoyl from new just in case? But it is good to hear that subframes are being imported again, we will have to see how things progress.

Unfortunately, I have received information that an owner was informed that a dealership had refused to accept receipt of 5 NEW subframes as they had heavy corrosion on them, upon delivery, with this in mind I have suggested that owners check the condition of their new subframes upon collection of the car after replacement and, suggested that owners who have had their subframes replaced already, to check the subframes as soon as possible, especially, as only about 1/5 of owners are getting a receipt showing the subframe replacement. I have also suggested that owners contact MB and check that the replacement of their subframe is recorded on the MB Vehicle Database/Service History to make sure that they are recorded just in case there are any corrosion issues in future.
The Club and I have had a mention in May 2022 Issue of the Car Mechanics Magazine regarding our crusade for FOC subframe replacements as we helped them get the subframe replaced FOC by MB on their ‘Project Mercedes’ rebuild of an R171! (a copy of the article has been published on the Club Facebook Pages a copy is available, via email, upon request) this will help add weight to the information we send out regarding the Subframe replacement issues to MB Dealerships, MBCS UK

Subframes - Retrospective Reimbursement Claims.
This is progressing, I have sent information to owners, and I will continue to send out information sheets and Draft emails, for owners to personalise and send-off to D/MB AG in Germany. I will continue to keep owners informed as things progress.
As I said in the last monthly report, I heard from owners who had to pay for their own subframe replacements, and we have had 3 UK owners who have been reimbursed for
their subframes and, in one case, some other components that they were charged for, I am sure that this will continue to be successful for owners who have been out of pocket. We still have an owner who is having an issue with a claim atm, MB’s reimbursement offer is insufficient, but, hopefully, we should be able to resolve this soon?
This is now less of an issue in the USA, I have produced a Retrospective Reimbursement Claim Form for the USA as we have owners in the US that are in the same situation, this is now needed; as MB have now issued an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ which they have issued through MBUSA, allowing all US dealerships to now replace the subframe FOC and, to allow owners to claim, retrospectively, for replacements undertaken by third party garages on all affected models. owners just need to produce all their receipts, as our owners over here do, as proof.
Should owners have any questions or issues? I am available to be contacted through the Club Facebook Page, BenzWorld and directly by email, should owners want to discuss individual; Cases/Issues/Problems/Good Dealerships/Dealerships to Avoid, etc. and, if they should require any Moral Support through the process.
I hope this Data informs and encourages other owners to look at the current situation, regarding R171 rear subframe replacements and, prompt them to either, check or, get their subframes checked, for safety’s sake? We have now had a total of 87 subframes collapse, across the MB Range, this is just with owners that I have been working with through the Club, all have collapsed whilst the cars were being driven!
Other Mercedes Benz Models and Other Issues.
R170 Models
I’ve been approached by 7x R170 owners, I’ve put together an information sheet, even though they are not listed on the SSD, it’s worth trying under the Goodwill Warranty.
6 owners have now taken this up so far – one owner is having their claim reviewed by MB in Germany currently. I will keep owners updated as/if things progress.
R172 Models:
Don’t forget that there could also be issues with corrosion on R172 rear subframes, I have compiled an Information Sheet for the R172!
To date, we have 25 owners who have requested the Information Sheet for the R172 rear subframes. 2 subframe inspected and passed as OK!! We have just had an owner contact me and they have had an R172 subframe collapse so this is an ongoing issue and I will keep owners informed as things progress.
SLK R172 - Laminated Roof Issues: Glass Roof leaks**
I have received a copy of the MB Notice: G177.30-P-055700 Polycarbonate roof – water ingress issues – Version 3, Issued 10/16/2013. This describes the issues with the polycarbonate roof delamination – with photos – and test and repair information. This shows that there must have been issues with the polycarbonate roof as long ago as 2013 when this Notice was issued. I have noted that in the repair section there are no timescales for the repair set down for the various actions. This document was printed off on the 10/03/2023 so no amendments have been made to this section, and it could be argued, that this could suggest that the repair may be covered under the Goodwill Warranty? We will have to see – I have been contacted by 24x UK owners, regarding the Roof Issues to date. As I posted on the Club Facebook Page, we have had one owner who has had their leaking roof issue repaired FOC this was undertaken by the Dealership who sold the vehicle – the dealership said that they were repairing the roof at their own expense - not through any specific Warranty (not even the MB Approved Used Car Warranty, which was still in effect on the vehicle? Issues with these claims seem to be MBUK refusing to allow action to remedy the leaking roof problem from going ahead, not necessarily the dealerships! The R172 Glass Roof** - there are also water ingress issues with these, I am looking into the reasons for this it could be a seal issue or alignment/locking issues. - Ongoing – I will keep owners updated.
SLK R172 and W212 Opal Red Paintwork issues:
There are issues with the Opal Red paintwork on the R172 and now, apparently, on the W212 Models and getting MB to even look at the paintwork let alone get resprays approved and completed FOC, owners can use our Draft Email Paintwork claim paperwork, to make the claim through MBCS UK and the MB Dealerships (Bodywork), contact me if you are having issues with the paintwork on Fire Opal Red R172’s or the W212 models. So far we have had 8 owners who have contacted me, we have been successful so far on 4 occasions – Ongoing (Inc. a Fire Opal Red, W212 models).
R231 Models (New Model)
In last month’s report, I informed the groups that I was contacted by the owner of 2013 SL350 with 60k on the clock they bought it 5 weeks ago and it had been MOT’d 5 weeks ago and the subframe has collapsed, I feel that it is important to get the information out there that this Model is also susceptible to collapse, to warn owners.
After the dealership sent the report to MB in Germany, I can report that the replacement of the subframe has been approved by MB and, that it has now been replaced FOC. I have had a look on various MB Forum worldwide, and the subframe corrosion on the R231 appears to be quite a common issue, I have posted an Introductory Message, warning owners of the subframe corrosion/collapsing issues on the R231 BenzWorld pages, and, on the Owners Club Facebook page, as we also need to keep an eye on this model within the Owners Club!
X204 Model New Model
I have been approached by the owner of a 2010 GLK with a rotten rear subframe, the claim process has been started, although the X204 isn’t specifically listed on the SSD, it is based on the W204 floor-pan. The subframe has been replaced FOC by MB .
W176 Model New Model
Just had one report from an owner of a W176 (A-Class) that their subframe has been reported to be in an unsafe condition due to serious corrosion – a modified Draft email has been sent to the owner to send to Germany – awaiting feedback. I will keep owners updated.
W204, W218, W203, W212, W219 and C207 Models:
In the last 10 months, we have been working with, some 296 owners of W204/W218/W203/W212/W219/C207 (C-Class & E-Class), most, have approached me directly, 260 of them, through the ‘BenzWorld’ Forum Site. Owners are from the UK and across Europe, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, and increasing numbers from all across the USA.
We have had 48 owners of these models whose subframes have collapsed whilst their cars were being driven, some as new as 2014 we have had 3 subframes 2x W204 and 1x W212 in the UK that have been passed as serviceable by MB Dealerships and, 3 subframes that have been welded.
Of the 296 owners of W204/W218/W203/W212/C207 Models worked with, we have had some success with subframe replacements; of the 74 subframes (64x W204, 4x W218, 5x W212 and 1x W203), in the UK and Europe, 77 have been inspected to date, MB have replaced of agreed to replace 74 subframes, FOC. 3 of which had been welded. Of the 74 replaced FOC. Information from respondents have reported that: 4 have and 25 have not received receipts listing the subframe replacement.
The vehicles currently being worked with, are W204’s & W218’s – 2010- 2014, the W212 – some of these models were built as late as 2015 with mileages as little as 40k which have collapses, and the W203’s built from 2003 onwards. We had dealerships in the USA, suggesting that owners ‘Scrap’ 2011 – 2015 C & E-Class models because of the subframes rot – this was until MBUSA issued the ‘Extended Warranty Notice’, not a good advert for Mercedes Benz in the USA that owners should scrap them after between 8 - 11 years!!! We currently have 94 USA Owners of SLK & C&E-Class models.
There were serious issues with MBUSA, and I had to provide substantially more information to US owners, this additional information was needed when owners were dealing with US Dealerships and with MBUSA. The problems in the USA have now been addressed, with the issuance of an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ I will keep members
updated with progress on the R172, W204, W218, W203 and W212, etc. models, in the USA as claims – new and retrospective - progress.

Bubbling and Lifting paint/Lacquer - ‘Fire Opal Red’ Paint on R172 & W212 Models
I have been helping 8xR172 and 1x W212 owners who have lifting/bubbling on their ‘Opal Red’ paintwork – there have been issues with Dealerships and MBCS UK refusing to examine vehicles with this paint problem – but, I have put together a Draft email and information sheet to get Dealerships to examine the paintwork on affected vehicles, we have had another success and an owner has succeeded in getting their bodywork examined and, MB agreed to a full respray the vehicle FOC providing that the paintwork is original, the car has now been resprayed FOC by MB. Should anyone have this problem with their paintwork, and require an information sheet, please contact me.
General Information:
As some of you know I have been working with Andrew Everett from Car Mechanics Magazine, re: ‘Project Mercedes’ which was undertaken on an R171, by the Magazine (Re: The subframe Issues). They used our Claim paperwork and had their subframe replaced FOC and the Club and I both got a mention in the article as leading a crusade to support owners with corroded and collapsed subframe issues.
There is also an Article, published in the ‘Gebrauchtwagen’ Motoring Magazine in Germany, that suggested that MB are going to undertake the replacement of corroded subframes FOC, on Models that have, what MB term – ‘multi-link rear suspension’, these would include the majority of models listed on the MB Service Supplement Document regarding rear subframes: S135.00-P-0009A Service Information: Supplement to notes in maintenance documents on rear axle. Issued 05-11-2018”, which includes the R171, the main stipulations within the Article being, that; “the subframes should be inspected and their replacement undertaken, in MB Dealerships
I received a message from one of the Administrators on Benz World which said “Hello Dave, just a message to thank you for supporting our members that have that rear sub-frame issue, it's very kind of you to go to so much trouble. I've read many of the posts from concerned members who have that sub-frame issue, and it has been a great relief that I can now refer them to you. Are Mercedes-Benz now prepared to address this issue and effect repairs FOC, or do you have to fight each claim on an individual basis? Once again, very many thanks, your help is much appreciated. Very best wishes, James." Which shows that what we are doing is appreciated beyond the bounds of the Club.
I was also involved in a 4-way conversation with the three lawyers in the USA who are compiling a 'Class Action' against MB over in the US during which we discussed how the information I have compile dover the past 2 year may assist them in compiling their case. They seemed a little surprised when they asked how many owners I was working with and I told them with the main groups of SLK and C & E-Class owners that I am working with over 1000 currently and the numbers continue to grow!
As I identified in my last report, “Regarding the FOC subframe replacement of subframes by MB; that we needed to identify the timescales involved; if it applies to ALL Models that have multi-link suspension; All the models listed in the Article; and, if the FOC subframe replacements, apply worldwide?” I can also report that we are having success in Europe we have had success in FOC replacement of a rear subframe and no additional charges, for an owner in Cyprus which is excellent News – this is added to the owners in Spain and the ones in the USA and apparently the Extended Warranty Notice looks like it will also apply to Canada, but we are clarifying this atm.
Direct contact with Senior Management in Daimler, Mercedes-Benz Car AG in Germany.
I have contacted Senior management in Germany with a possible view to working directly with them with regard to providing information to owners in the Owners Club and on BenzWorld to help reduce the level of contact with owners who effectively come through me initially – I would then be able to provide owners with first-hand information. These discussions are progressing and are under discussion the Board level currently – I will report back to owners as things develop – Dave.
I am also working directly, with ‘Admins’ across the ‘BenzWorld Forum’ who are now actively promoting what we are doing to support MB Owners with subframe issues.
‘Extended Warranty Notice’ EWN (MBUSA Only)
As I stated in previous monthly Report, Mercedes-Benz have, after some 8 months of pressurising them, MB have now issued an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’, through MBUSA, stating that they will now replace the corroded subframes FOC on ALL affected MB Models in the USA, and, that owners who have paid to have their subframes replaced, we are now able to make Retrospective Claims for owners to be reimbursed. It currently appears that these reimbursements include owners who, through MBUSA’s indifference/intransichance, and/or the Dealerships attitude towards them, have had their subframes replaced by Third Party Garages – I am, as expected, receiving posts from some MB owners in the USA, who are trying to claim retrospective refunds as identified in the Extended Warranty Notice, owners are complaining that the amounts that MBUSA/Dealerships will refund, nowhere near cover their actual costs!!
I still don’t understand why MB can’t just admit they got it wrong and do the thing properly? As I felt this may be the situation, I had already put together a draft email for owners to use to press MBUSA and MB-Germany to pay the full costs - parts and labour, as the behaviour of the US Dealerships was appalling – Dealership suggesting owner scrap 2014-15 C&E-Class models as they would not be cost-effective to replace the subframes on!! Effectively forcing owners to have the subframes replace elsewhere!! I am still working with the Law-firms in the USA who are still assisting US owners with ongoing issues with MB across the USA.
It is interesting that MBUSA owners are having the same sort of issues as we are, with regard to the replacement of the Front to Rear brake pipes, with timescales and costs!! Something that has cropped up in both the UK and the USA is that owners are turning up to pick up their cars after subframe changes and are finding that they have numerous fault code, EML lights on, etc. that weren’t on when they dropped the cars off and the dealers are saying that it is nothing to do with them and wanting to charge for fault finding? One owner took their back several times and each time it came out with a different fault which when they took it back the dealership wanted to charge again for the diagnostics – something for owners to be aware of when collecting their car after subframe replacements!! (This is being challenged currently)
Claims under the Extended Warranty Notice: In the USA, we have had; 6 ‘new claim’ subframes replaced, and 6 Retrospective Refunds that have been repaid to owners so far.
I have rewritten the US version of the Retrospective Claims Paperwork, to take onto account, the current situation, and I am still working with owners in the USA clarifying the retrospective claim process with MBUSA. Initial feedback from US owners is, that MBUSA have been contacted by owners, some of whom have received full refunds whilst others have been offered amounts well below what they were claiming – this has been challenged and will hopefully result in full refunds from MB in the near future.
I was looking if there would be any benefit to owners in the UK/Europe, if we were to push MB in Germany into issuing a similar ‘Extended Warranty Notice’, to cover the claims in the UK and Europe, if they were to issue a Notice to cover the UK/Europe, it may have detrimental effect on the timescale that MB will support the replacements of subframes (MB have limited the support time in the USA, by extending the Warranty Period from 10 to 20 years and, withdrawn any/all milage limits to ‘unlimited milage’), I have decided to leave things as they stand, With MB replacing the subframes FOC at the moment, as this Notice is time-limited (to 20 years), I feel that there would be no advantage to pursue any change at this time, as some of our models are pushing 19 years atm.
It is good that MB have issued this ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ in the USA which allows owners, in the USA, to get the same sort of service that we have enjoyed over here in the UK and Europe? PLEASE NOTE: This Extended Warranty Notice ONLY applies to owners and vehicles in the USA. Although, I am currently looking into whether the Extended Warranty Notice applies to owners in Canada?
There are worries from owners in the UK/European group, that the likely additional subframe needs through the increased number needed in the USA (Potentially 10’s or even 100’s of thousands of subframes) will affect the supply of subframes to be available to the UK and Europe, this is a concern, but, I feel that MB might find it more cost effective (shipping costs, timescales, etc.) to produce the subframes in the USA,? We will have to see what happens, I don’t really, foresee issues with this, but we shall see. I will now be able to, more easily, manage the support that I can provide to owners across the UK/Europe, USA, Canada, Australia, and Africa and keep things moving.
I have been contacted by a helpful MB Service Manager, at one of the dealerships on my ‘Good List’ who has provided me with information about some of the issues we are experiencing currently – subframe delays, timescales, job-times, Goodwill Warranty, etc. This contact has provided information that has been very helpful with our current and future claims and, has helped us, directly and indirectly, with some of the issues we were experiencing with MBUK and MBUSA.
Interestingly, I have been approached by an owner in Germany, who is having issues getting their subframe replaced on their R171. I was under the impression that MB in Germany were, effectively, replacing them as a matter of course, this would not appear to be the case? I will keep owners appraised of the ongoing situation!
I have had to sort out an issue with Customer Services in Spain where they were trying to charge the owner to fit the new subframe, we took the issue to Senior Management in Germany, and it was resolved by them, and the Dealership in Spain fitted the new subframe FOC. We are having a similar issue with CS in France atm.

Since I placed the four Posts on MB Subframe Corrosion on BenzWorld/Mercedes Benz Owners Club Forum Sites, there have been:
30000* Views of the R171 Rear Subframe Post, resulting in 173 direct contacts from owners to date,
31000* Views of the W204/W218/W212/C&W207/W214, Rear Subframe Post, resulting in 257 direct contacts from owners to date, and,
4000* Views of the W203 Rear Subframe Post, in the 11 months it has been up, there have now been 3 direct contacts from owners to date.
3000* Views of the W212 Rear Subframe Post, in the 10 months it has been up, there have been 8 contacts from owners to date.
In-light of the email about a 2013, SL350 subframe collapsing due to corrosion, just 10 weeks after an MOT – Currently - 1 (BW) contact and, one subframe collapse. FOC replacement has been completed by MB.
* Approx. Numbers recorded by BenzWorld
😊 Dave Evans

 

Posted for Dave Evans

Information to replace/repair the polycarbonate roof on early R172 Models
What does this mean?
It means that the Vario-roof on early R172 Models is a composite Polycarbonate panel which is made from a number of polycarbonate sections which are effectively ‘glued’ together to form the front section of the retractable ‘Vario-roof’.
The issue with these roof panels is, that the laminated sections start to separate (delaminate) and allow water ingress into the cockpit when the vehicle either accelerates, brakes or corners - soaking the electronics, electrics, seats, carpets, floors and of course the occupants.
What Models are involved?
Early versions of the R172 SLK Models, fitted with Polycarbonate Roofs.
General Information on the issue?
From reading various Mercedes Benz Forum, Worldwide, the delamination of the roof sections is a common issue that seems to affect early Mercedes Benz R172 Models.
It has been noted that this type of roof was only installed on a, comparatively small number of vehicles and was later changed for a Glass Roof** (see General Notes below) which obviously, doesn’t suffer from this delamination issue.
Owners Concerns?
Owners have concerns which include; the possibility that the roof sections could separate completely, and fly off whilst the vehicle is being driven, which could cause damage or injury to other road users and or pedestrians and the passengers within the vehicle itself and, the likely legal implications that would arise should this occur, the damage that could be done to the electronics and switches etc. by water ingress, and the damage to upholstery, carpets and floor panels (Corrosion).
Information from the UK and around the world?
The Group Expert for the SLK Owners Club, has recently spoken to an MB Contact and, has been provided with a copy of an MB Repair Notice: G177.30-P-055700 Version 3, Water Ingress – Retractable Hardtop Front Section - which was originally issued on the 10/16/2013. (UK 16/10/2013). This shows that in 2013, less than 2 years after the launch of the R172 Model, that there had already been issues with the Polycarbonate Roofs and, around the same time, MB stopped using the Polycarbonate Roof and started fitting the Glass Roof Sections.
From sources in the USA, and other informed sources, the Group Expert believes, that the adhesives that were used in the production of the roof panels was not appropriate for the construction and lamination of the Polycarbonate roof panel, this has allowed the adhesive to fail, and the sections of the roof separate and allow water to collect between the sections and deposit water into the cockpit when the vehicles moves.
The link - R172 Roof leak - very bad now - shows the situation regarding the Laminated roof issue for the roof replacement in the USA. The reason given, by MB for the replacement is, ‘the roof structures are failing in the USA because there is such a temperature variation across the USA’.
It is worth noting that in the UK and across Europe, we have had record-breaking temperatures last year (2022).
Some USA owners also state that Mercedes were replacing the plastic roof panels with glass items under Goodwill Warranty claims.
Dealerships have informed us, that MB will not replace the polycarbonate roof with a glass roof under any circumstances!? This does not appear to be the case in the USA.
Process of claiming?
Firstly, if your Polycarbonate roof is leaking;
Contact the Group Expert: Dave Evans: dave@castellni.co.uk; and ask for an information sheet on the R172 roof delamination issues:

What happens if the Dealership wants to Charge for the inspection?
Generally, if the Dealership wants to charge for the inspection, the owner mentions that they are a member of: SLKOwnersClub.Co.UK and, that Club members Nationwide, have had theirs inspected FOC. If the Dealership still wish to charge, it is suggested that the owner take it to another Dealership.

Prior to contacting a Dealership; Owners should carry out a ‘Pre-claim Inspection’!
Prior to taking the car in to a Dealership, owners should undertake some checks on the roof and its seals and identify that the water ingress is due to roof delamination and not just a seal failure or the seals drying out, etc.
Owners should follow the guidance in the ‘MB Repair Notice’ which describes the programme of tests that MB Dealerships carry out as part of their inspection.
Treat the roof seals with something like Gummi Pflege to ensure the seals are soft and plumped up to enable them to seal.
We suggest that owners undertake these tests and visually check if the inner and outer roof ’skins’ are starting to delaminate, (usually along the front edge of the roof), also check where the water is coming in (look at the photos in the ‘Repair Notice’ and see if your roof is leaking in the same places) using these checks, will ascertain if it is the roof delaminating that is causing the water ingress or if the seals need attention.

Having undertaken these tests and checks?
Book the car in and take it to an MB dealership for inspection.
Follow the guidance on the Roof Delamination Information Sheet
The dealership will inspect the condition of the roof panel and see if it is separating and should carry out the tests identified in the ‘Repair Notice’.
The Dealership should then send their report back to MBCS UK who will, hopefully, approve the repair/replacement, FOC.

General Notes:
It is worth noting that some Dealerships are also saying that ‘any repair or replacement will only have a Warranty of 12 months’, it is worth pointing out that, under EU/UK legislation, you are dealing with a ‘Manufactures Dealership’ and, irrespective of what the dealer says;
‘On a consumer durable, like a car, owners should expect up to 6 years protection. As Mercedes have been replacing roofs in other countries so, I think you can safely say the defect was built into the car when it was made (which is the key test) and the fact that Mercedes only made the laminated roof for a short period of time and they no longer make the model with a Polycarbonate roof, and the fact the MB issued a Repair Notice for the roof, so soon after the start of the production run, should add to the weight of evidence’.
** Glass Roof Panels – water ingress is also an issue with the Glass Roof Panels this does seem to, initially, be due to the roof seals, possibly drying out and shrinking or becoming hard and not sealing against the roof. Check the seals first and maybe use something like, Gummi Pflege.
How to find a Good Dealership in the owners’ area?
The Club Support Contact had compiled a list of ‘Good Dealerships’ and ‘Dealerships to be Avoided’,
in most areas of the UK and Northern Ireland, information is only compiled from Owners/Members Feedback.

The Information Sheets and other support information is available to all SLK Owners from the Club Support Contact - Dave Evans on the SLKOWNERSCLUB.CO.UK - Facebook Page or, by Email to: dave@castellni.co.uk; or, on the BenzWorld Forum.

 

R172 Fire Opal Red, Paint Issues
Assisting Owners with Blistering and Peeling Paintwork/Lacquer
What Does This Mean?
This relates to the paint issues encountered by owners of ‘Fire Opal Red’ and ‘Mars Red’Mercedes Benz R172 SLK’s and some C & E-Class Models, where the paint/lacquer is blistering and peeling off the metal bodywork.
NOTE:
Ensure that the issue is with the paint/lacquer ‘blistering’ and NOT due to corrosion?
MB had issues with the paint and lacquer with Fire Opal Red, caused by production issues this has allowed the paint/lacquer to blister and peel.
In these cases, MB have agreed to full resprays (Metal Panels, not the Plastic trim – skirts, bumpers etc!) providing there have been no repairs or after-market repaints.

What Models are involved?
We are aware of Fire Opal Red, R172 and W212 models suffering from this paint blistering issue, although there are likely to be other MB Models that suffer from the same issue built 2011 onwards.

Process of claiming?
Contact The Group Specialist and request a copy of the ‘Paintwork Information Sheet’ and follow the guidance.
Book the car in with an MB Dealership or MB Approved Body-shop.
The body-shop will inspect that the paint is original (paint depth etc.) and then decide if the finish requires repainting.
The Body-shop will then report back to the Dealership and the Dealership will make a report to MBCS UK or the Customer Service Department in your Country who will, hopefully, approve a FOC respray.

Pre-Inspection Checks?
Ensure that the issue is not due to.
Impact damage,
Corrosion,
After-market paintwork.

Causes of the issue
This seems to be a general issue with these particular colour.
The general consensus on the reason for the blistering there seems to have been an issue with the application of the paint during the manufacturing process.
This seems to be a common issue across the range of MB Models SLK, C-Class and E-Class, etc.

What will happen?
You will take your car into a dealership, and they will, either examine the paintwork themselves or, send you to an MB approved Bodyshop to have the paintwork examined.
The body-shop will measure the paint thickness on ALL metal body panels they will only repaint, FOC, panels with the original paint finish.
If any panels have had any ‘after-market’ paintwork undertaken, they will, as far as we can ascertain, charge owners for the paint removal and preparation on those panels.
MB will also charge for panels that have been accident repaired or corrosion repaired but that is a discussion that individual owners will have with the Body-shop.
What happens if the Dealership wants to Charge for the inspection?
Generally, if the Dealership wants to charge for the inspection, the owner mentions that they are a
member of: SLKOwnersClub.Co.UK and, that Club members Nationwide, have had theirs inspected FOC. If the Dealership still wish to charge, it is suggested that the owner take it to another Dealership.
What happens after the dealership have examined the car?
The Vehicle will be examined by the Body-Shop and if the FOC respray is approved, the owners will arrange a time for the vehicle to be taken in for the preparation for a respray.
The vehicle will go into the Body-Shop, and they will strip the paint on the metal panels, (they do not strip back the paintwork on the Plastic panels as far as we are aware.

General Description of the issue with the paintwork issues.
We, at the SLK Owners Club, have owners of R172 SLK and W212 Models, who have had issues with Fire Opal Red paintwork that has started to blister and peel off the bodywork, we believe from reading information across a variety of MB Forum that suggests that there were issues with the initial paint application, as there would appear to have been an issue with the Factory Paint Process which has resulted in the lacquer on Fire Opal Red paint peeling the same as mine have been repainted FOC under what Mercedes-Benz call the MB Goodwill Warranty.
The results of this inspection should be sent to MBCS UK for their decision as to whether they will approve a FOC, full Respray and to have the paintwork rectified.
Owners who have had their cars ‘bare metal’ resprayed FOC approved by Mercedes Benz have been very happy with the results currently, in the UK we have had 4x FOC Resprays to date.

How to find a Good Dealership in the owners’ area?
The Club Support Contact had compiled a list of ‘Good Dealerships’ and ‘Dealerships to be Avoided’, in most areas of the UK and Northern Ireland, information is only compiled from Owners/Members Feedback.

The Information Sheets and other support information is available to all SLK Owners from the Club Support Contact - Dave Evans on the SLKOWNERSCLUB.CO.UK - Facebook Page or, by email to: dave@castellni.co.uk; or, on the BenzWorld Forum.

 

Further information re: - R172 Polycarbonate Roof - Water Ingress issues!
After a discussion with R172 owners with laminated roof issues, in which it was suggested that I put together an email group with the intention of sending it out to all owners affected by the laminated roof/water ingress issue including, owners who have already contacted me and, the wider SLK Owners Club UK Facebook group and BenzWorld.
I Bcc’d all current owners in this group, requesting written permission to share their emails with each other as I am bound by the UK’s Data Protection Guidelines.
It has been suggested that we, perhaps, join together and present a joint complaint to Senior Management in Germany regarding claiming for the issues with the laminated roof/water ingress problems?
I put together a similar group in the USA of about 90 owners regarding the replacement of subframes which, after a while this resulted in MB and MBUSA issuing the Extended Warranty Notice which has resulted in all owners across the US now being able to get their subframes replaced FOC which wasn’t happening before (MBUSA refused totally to admit that subframes should be replaced under the Goodwill Warranty).
If you are an owner with Laminated Roof - Water ingress Issue, and are interested in this approach, could you please contact me and give me permission if you wish to share your email addresses with other owners in the Laminated Roof group and, on group emails to MB in Germany.
I currently have about 28x SLK Owners Club members in this potential group and I will move things forward as quickly as possible when I have the permissions from owners.
I would appreciate it if R172 owners, current and new, could respond to this by email as to whether or not you want to be part of this group and authorise me to use your email addresses specifically for the purposes stated above.
I look forward to hearing from owners with these issues in due course and we will take it from there! if anyone has any questions please contact me I am here to help contact me by email - dave@castellni.co.uk - Dave Evans

 

 

General SSD 2018.pdf

 

Dave Evans update:

Subframe Corner Update for SLK Owners Club Facebook Page - 30/06/2023.
Hi folks, yes, it’s that time again, below is the latest monthly ‘Recorded Data’ Update, covering the period from March 2021 to 30 June 2023.
This report is mainly on the SLK R171, but also on other MB Models, regarding the rear subframe corrosion situation, keeping you informed of owners’
progress, successes, and other related rear subframe issues. There are also other issues with MB vehicles that we have also started to work with
owners to challenge MB about.
Regarding R171 claims: We have now been contacted by 842 - R171 Owners in total and, are working with 350+ of them. 175 of these owners have
come through BenzWorld/MBOC, most are from the UK and Northern Ireland but, we are still working with owners in Europe (Republic of Ireland, Isle
of Man, Guernsey, Poland, Holland, France, Spain, Norway, Netherlands, Bulgaria, Belarus, Germany, Cyprus, Romania) also Australia, New Zealand,
Canada and still increasing numbers of owners in from the USA (of ALL affected MB Models) most US Owners are currently asking for guidance with
regard to the new ‘Extended Warranty Notice’.
With the R171, we have had 287 subframes replaced or authorised for replacement FOC (this includes 22 members whose vehicles are in Dealerships
having subframes changed or are waiting for parts atm).
The latest count shows that we have had 41 - R171 subframes that have collapsed, whilst the cars were being driven, fortunately, there have been no
serious injuries and no fatalities in our Owners Club. I have, made a FoI Request to Nottingham Police, requested information on the accident video
posted on the Club Facebook page of a post from, ‘Mail On-line’ to see if the SLK involved, was inspected at the time, regarding the condition of the
subframe?
Currently, 51 of the subframes that have been inspected, have been passed as ‘Serviceable’, by MB Dealerships. As a matter of course, we have
suggested that the owners have their subframes inspected by an Independent Garage to ensure that they are safe. This is advised, after one of our
owners’ subframe collapsed less than 2 months after being passed as serviceable by MB.
We have also had 31 owners out of a total of 39, who have had their subframes changed FOC, despite them having been welded and, we have 8
owners with welded subframes, waiting for theirs to be inspected. Worryingly, we have recently had an issue with some, initially, ‘Good List’
Dealerships making their own decisions as to whether the welded subframes should be replaced, this takes the decision away from, MBCS UK who are
not given the option to approve the replacement of welded subframes, on the previous report, it can be seen that this seemed to have been
successfully challenged and was over-turned by Management in Germany. Unfortunately, things have not returned to the way it was in the past.
Dealerships should not be making the decisions; this is up to MBCS UK!! This issue has been brought to the attention of senior management in MB
Germany! I have produced a draft email for owners to personalise and send, along with their Video recording, initially, to MBCS UK and if they don’t
act, we can use a similar email to escalate the issue to the Directors and CEO of Mercedes Benz Cars AG in Germany.
There is still a lack of consistency in these decisions. A couple of owners were left only with the option, to contact MB senior management in Germany
which they did, and Senior Management in Germany investigated the issues and overturned the Dealership and MBUK decisions.
I have had some dealerships moved to the ‘To Avoid’ List, and will no longer promote this dealership with owners, and, moved some Dealerships to the
‘Good List’, again, all positions will be kept under review!
Some Dealerships (now on my ‘To Avoid’ List) are still demanding a signed agreement from Owners, that the owner will agree to pay costs, up to
£1800, for “components they ‘may’ have to replace”, in advance of work starting (owners SHOULD NOT agree to this!! Contact me if this is requested!!
It is important that owners challenge this, I will send them information that should help. I have also suggested that, if this doesn’t work, that they should
take their cars to another dealership, from a different Dealership Group. There has been some movement from these initial challenges, dealerships
undertake the subframe replacement and are, generally, changing their minds about pursuing or at least substantially, reducing these charges – as you

know, have new contact information for senior MB Management in Daimler/Mercedes-Benz AG in Germany, which we will continue to use, if/when we
escalate any complaints. Some other dealership issues/complaints are still being investigated and will be reported back on in due course!
We still, occasionally, have some owners who are receiving the initial reply from MBCS UK, saying that owners should have a FMBSH, and that they
should take the car to an MB Dealership for a Safety Check! NOTE: We still only have ONE owner out of the 287 who have had their subframes
replaced FOC, with anything like a FMBSH.
There is still a reluctance, on the part of MB Dealerships, to detail the replacement of the rear subframe on receipts/invoices, for Owners’ Service
History, as under a 1/5 are being recorded on owners’ receipts/invoices. Currently, of the owners who have responded; 23 SLK owners have a
‘subframe replaced’ receipt and, 130 have not.
There is still a concern, that some MB Dealerships are still trying to coerce owners to pay for parts which should be covered by the Warranty, i.e., nuts,
bolts, brackets, Mountings, etc. and some of the prices quoted, do appear excessive for what is identified (Up to £1200)!! Again, we challenge this
behaviour! We have had one dealership wanting to charge £2300 to replace brake pipes and fuel pipe stating that it will take 13 hours?? I spoke to a
MB Dealership Workshop Manager who says that there isn’t a ‘set’ time for the brake-pipe replacement but, in their dealership, they charge around 2 -
3 hours labour if the brake-pipes are replaced with a subframe replacement.
It is good to see, that MB are still undertaking subframe replacements and, the current turn-around time on authorisation does, in general, seem to be
substantially quicker, unfortunately there seems to be a shortage of subframes in the UK at the moment, which does slow the actual turn-round time
and, Dealerships are currently saying that it can take up to 6 weeks or longer, we are challenging this both Locally (MBCS UK) and with the Directors
and CEO of D/MB AG in Germany.
I keep getting requests from owners questioning timescales for the supply of new subframes – mainly R171’s, but including C & E-Class – I have
produced a draft email for owners to send to MBCS UK to see if they can help provide some sort of timescale? I have also drafted an email for owners
to send to the Directors and CEO on D/MB AG in Germany, I have heard from an owner who used the draft email to contact the Directors and CEO of
Daimler Mercedes-Benz AG in Germany, about timescales for delivery – the CEO was not happy with the reasons given for the delays, and contacted
the dealership, the subframe was delivered within a few days and fitted, there were no additional charges! Success!
There had been issues importing new subframes into Germany, from wherever MB were importing them?
I have heard from an owner, who has been informed by a dealership, that MB have changed their subframe manufacturer and, that the new subframes
are supposed to be rust protected inside, we will have to see whether this is right but, in any case, I would treat the inside with Waxoyl from new just in
case? But it is good to hear that subframes are being imported again, we will have to see how things progress.
Unfortunately, I have received information that an owner was informed that a dealership had refused to accept receipt of 5 NEW subframes as they had
heavy corrosion on them, upon delivery, with this in mind I have suggested that owners check the condition of their new subframes upon collection of
the car after replacement and, suggested that owners who have had their subframes replaced already, to check the subframes as soon as possible,
especially, as only about 1/5 of owners are getting a receipt showing the subframe replacement. I have also suggested that owners contact MB and
check that the replacement of their subframe is recorded on the MB Vehicle Database/Service History to make sure that they are recorded just in case
there are any corrosion issues in future.
The Club and I have had a mention in May 2022 Issue of the Car Mechanics Magazine regarding our crusade for FOC subframe replacements as we
helped them get the subframe replaced FOC by MB on their ‘Project Mercedes’ rebuild of an R171! (a copy of the article has been published on the
Club Facebook Pages a copy is available, via email, upon request) this will help add weight to the information we send out regarding the Subframe
replacement issues to MB Dealerships, MBCS UK

Subframes - Retrospective Reimbursement Claims.
This is progressing, I have sent information to owners, and I will continue to send out information sheets and Draft emails, for owners to personalise
and send-off to D/MB AG in Germany. I will continue to keep owners informed as things progress.
As I said in the last monthly report, I heard from owners who had to pay for their own subframe replacements, and we have had 3 UK owners who have
been reimbursed for their subframes and, in one case, some other components that they were charged for, I am sure that this will continue to be
successful for owners who have been out of pocket. We still have an owner who is having an issue with a claim atm, MB’s reimbursement offer is
insufficient, but, hopefully, we should be able to resolve this soon?
This is now less of an issue in the USA, I have produced a Retrospective Reimbursement Claim Form for the USA as we have owners in the US that
are in the same situation, this is now needed; as MB have now issued an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ which they have issued through MBUSA, allowing
all US dealerships to now replace the subframe FOC and, to allow owners to claim, retrospectively, for replacements undertaken by third party garages
on all affected models. owners just need to produce all their receipts, as our owners over here do, as proof.
Should owners have any questions or issues? I am available to be contacted through the Club Facebook Page, BenzWorld and directly by email,
should owners want to discuss individual; Cases/Issues/Problems/Good Dealerships/Dealerships to Avoid, etc. and, if they should require any Moral
Support through the process.
I hope this Data informs and encourages other owners to look at the current situation, regarding R171 rear subframe replacements and, prompt them to
either, check or, get their subframes checked, for safety’s sake? We have now had a total of 87 subframes collapse, across the MB Range, this is just
with owners that I have been working with through the Club, all have collapsed whilst the cars were being driven!
Other Mercedes Benz Models and Other Issues.
R170 Models
I’ve been approached by 7x R170 owners, I’ve put together an information sheet, even though they are not listed on the SSD, it’s worth trying under the
Goodwill Warranty.
6 owners have now taken this up so far – one owner is having their claim reviewed by MB in Germany currently. I will keep owners updated as/if things
progress.
R172 Models:
Don’t forget that there could also be issues with corrosion on R172 rear subframes, I have compiled an Information Sheet for the R172!
To date, we have 38 owners who have requested the Information Sheet for the R172 rear subframes. We have had 1 Subframe collapse, and 1
subframe replaced so far and we have had 2 subframe inspected that were passed as OK!! We have just had an owner contact me and they have had
an R172 subframe collapse so this is an ongoing issue, and I will keep owners informed as things progress.
SLK R172 - Laminated Roof Issues: Glass Roof leaks**
I have received a copy of the MB Notice: G177.30-P-055700 Polycarbonate roof – water ingress issues – Version 3, Issued 10/16/2013. This describes
the issues with the polycarbonate roof delamination – with photos – and test and repair information. This shows that there must have been issues with
the polycarbonate roof as long ago as 2013 when this Notice was issued. I have noted that in the repair section there are no timescales for the repair
set down for the various actions. This document was printed off on the 10/03/2023 so no amendments have been made to this section, and it could be
argued, that this could suggest that the repair may be covered under the Goodwill Warranty? We will have to see – I have been contacted by 35x UK

owners, regarding the Roof Issues to date. As I posted on the Club Facebook Page, we have had one owner who has had their leaking roof issue
repaired FOC this was undertaken by the Dealership who sold the vehicle – the dealership said that they were repairing the roof at their own expense -
not through any specific Warranty (not even the MB Approved Used Car Warranty, which was still in effect on the vehicle? Issues with these claims
seem to be MBUK refusing to allow action to remedy the leaking roof problem from going ahead, not necessarily the dealerships! The R172 Glass
Roof** - there are also water ingress issues with these, I am looking into the reasons for this it could be a seal issue or alignment/locking issues. -
Ongoing – I will keep owners updated.
SLK R172 and W212 Opal Red Paintwork issues:
There are issues with the Opal Red paintwork on the R172 and now, apparently, on the W212 Models and getting MB to even look at the paintwork let
alone get resprays approved and completed FOC, owners can use our Draft Email Paintwork claim paperwork, to make the claim through MBCS UK
and the MB Dealerships (Bodywork), contact me if you are having issues with the paintwork on Fire Opal Red R172’s or the W212 models. So far we
have had 8 owners who have contacted me, we have been successful so far on 4 occasions – Ongoing (Inc. a Fire Opal Red, W212 models).
R231 Models (New Model)
In last month’s report, I informed the groups that I was contacted by the owner of 2013 SL350 with 60k on the clock they bought it 5 weeks ago and it
had been MOT’d 5 weeks ago and the subframe has collapsed, I feel that it is important to get the information out there that this Model is also
susceptible to collapse, to warn owners.
After the dealership sent the report to MB in Germany, I can report that the replacement of the subframe has been approved by MB and, that it has now
been replaced FOC. I have had a look on various MB Forum worldwide, and the subframe corrosion on the R231 appears to be quite a common issue,
I have posted an Introductory Message, warning owners of the subframe corrosion/collapsing issues on the R231 BenzWorld pages, and, on the
Owners Club Facebook page, as we also need to keep an eye on this model within the Owners Club!
X204 Model New Model
I have been approached by the owner of a 2010 GLK with a rotten rear subframe, the claim process has been started, although the X204 isn’t
specifically listed on the SSD, it is based on the W204 floor-pan. The subframe has been replaced FOC by MB .
W176 Model New Model
Just had one report from an owner of a W176 (A-Class) that their subframe has been reported to be in an unsafe condition due to serious corrosion – a
modified Draft email has been sent to the owner to send to Germany – awaiting feedback. I will keep owners updated.
W204, W218, W203, W212, W219 and C207 Models:
In the last 10 months, we have been working with, some 312 owners of W204/W218/W203/W212/W219/C207 (C-Class & E-Class), most, have
approached me directly, 268 of them, through the ‘BenzWorld’ Forum Site. Owners are from the UK and across Europe, New Zealand, Australia,
Canada, and increasing numbers from all across the USA.
We have had 51 owners of these models whose subframes have collapsed whilst their cars were being driven, some as new as 2014 we have had 3
subframes 2x W204 and 1x W212 in the UK that have been passed as serviceable by MB Dealerships and, 3 subframes that have been welded.
Of the 310 owners of W204/W218/W203/W212/C207 Models worked with, we have had some success with subframe replacements; of the 83
subframes (72x W204, 5x W218, 5x W212 and 1x W203), in the UK and Europe, 84 have been inspected to date, MB have replaced of agreed to

replace 82 subframes, FOC. 3 of which had been welded. Of the 83 replaced FOC. Information from respondents have reported that: 4 have and 28
have not received receipts listing the subframe replacement.
The vehicles currently being worked with, are W204’s & W218’s – 2010- 2014, the W212 – some of these models were built as late as 2015 with
mileages as little as 40k which have collapses, and the W203’s built from 2003 onwards. We have dealerships in the USA suggesting that owners
‘Scrap’ 2011 – 2015 C & E-Class models because of the subframes rot – not a good advert for Mercedes Benz in the USA that owners should scrap
them after between 8 - 11 years!!!
We currently have 96 USA Owners of SLK & C&E-Class models.
There were serious issues with MBUSA, and I had to provide substantially more information to US owners, this additional information was needed
when owners were dealing with US Dealerships and with MBUSA. The problems in the USA have now been addressed, with the issuance of an
‘Extended Warranty Notice’ I will keep members updated with progress on the R172, W204, W218, W203 and W212, etc. models, in the USA as claims
– new and retrospective - progress.
Bubbling and Lifting paint/Lacquer - ‘Fire Opal Red’ Paint on R172 & W212 Models
I have been helping 9x R172 and 1x W212 owners who have lifting/bubbling on their ‘Opal Red’ paintwork – there have been issues with Dealerships
and MBCS UK refusing to examine vehicles with this paint problem – but, I have put together a Draft email and information sheet to get Dealerships to
examine the paintwork on affected vehicles, we have had another success and an owner has succeeded in getting their bodywork examined and, MB
agreed to a full respray the vehicle FOC providing that the paintwork is original, the car has now been resprayed FOC by MB. Should anyone have this
problem with their paintwork, and require an information sheet, please contact me.
General Information:
As some of you know I have been working with Andrew Everett from Car Mechanics Magazine, re: ‘Project Mercedes’ which was undertaken on an
R171, by the Magazine (Re: The subframe Issues). They used our Claim paperwork and had their subframe replaced FOC and the Club and I both got
a mention in the article as leading a crusade to support owners with corroded and collapsed subframe issues.
There is also an Article, published in the ‘Gebrauchtwagen’ Motoring Magazine in Germany, that suggested that MB are going to undertake the
replacement of corroded subframes FOC, on Models that have, what MB term – ‘multi-link rear suspension’, these would include the majority of models
listed on the MB Service Supplement Document regarding rear subframes: S135.00-P-0009A Service Information: Supplement to notes in maintenance
documents on rear axle. Issued 05-11-2018”, which includes the R171, the main stipulations within the Article being, that; “the subframes should be
inspected and their replacement undertaken, in MB Dealerships
I received a message from one of the Administrators on Benz World which said “Hello Dave, just a message to thank you for supporting our members
that have that rear sub-frame issue, it's very kind of you to go to so much trouble. I've read many of the posts from concerned members who have that
sub-frame issue, and it has been a great relief that I can now refer them to you. Are Mercedes-Benz now prepared to address this issue and effect
repairs FOC, or do you have to fight each claim on an individual basis? Once again, very many thanks, your help is much appreciated. Very best
wishes, James." Which shows that what we are doing is appreciated beyond the bounds of the Club.
I am still involved in a 4-way conversation with the three lawyers in the USA who are compiling a 'Class Action' against MB over in the US during which
we discussed how the information I have compile dover the past 2 year may assist them in compiling their case. They seemed a little surprised when
they asked how many owners I was working with and I told them with the main groups of SLK and C & E-Class owners that I am working with over
1000 currently and the numbers continue to grow!
As I identified in my last report, “Regarding the FOC subframe replacement of subframes by MB; that we needed to identify the timescales involved; if it

applies to ALL Models that have multi-link suspension; All the models listed in the Article; and, if the FOC subframe replacements, apply worldwide?” I
can also report that we are having success in Europe we have had success in FOC replacement of a rear subframe and no additional charges, for an
owner in Cyprus which is excellent News – this is added to the owners in Spain and the ones in the USA and apparently the Extended Warranty Notice
looks like it will also apply to Canada, but we are clarifying this atm.
Direct contact with Senior Management in Daimler, Mercedes-Benz Car AG in Germany.
I have contacted Senior management in Germany with a possible view to working directly with them with regard to providing information to owners in
the Owners Club and on BenzWorld to help reduce the level of contact with owners who effectively come through me initially – The Board have decided
that they want to be contacted by Owners directly, as they want to be able to act directly on owners feedback. Dave.
I am also working directly, with ‘Admins’ across the ‘BenzWorld Forum’ have posted a substantial amount of information regarding the various issues
MB owners are experiencing and are now actively promoting what we are doing to support MB Owners with subframe issues.
‘Extended Warranty Notice’ EWN (MBUSA Only)
As I stated in previous monthly Report, Mercedes-Benz have, after some 8 months of pressurising them, MB have now issued an ‘Extended Warranty
Notice’, through MBUSA, stating that they will now replace the corroded subframes FOC on ALL affected MB Models in the USA, and, that owners who
have paid to have their subframes replaced, we are now able to make Retrospective Claims for owners to be reimbursed. It currently appears that
these reimbursements include owners who, through MBUSA’s indifference/intransichance, and/or the Dealerships attitude towards them, have had
their subframes replaced by Third Party Garages – I am, as expected, receiving posts from some MB owners in the USA, who are trying to claim
retrospective refunds as identified in the Extended Warranty Notice, owners are complaining that the amounts that MBUSA/Dealerships will refund,
nowhere near cover their actual costs!!
I still don’t understand why MB can’t just admit they got it wrong and do the thing properly? As I felt this may be the situation, I had already put together
a draft email for owners to use to press MBUSA and MB-Germany to pay the full costs - parts and labour, as the behaviour of the US Dealerships was
appalling – Dealership suggesting owner scrap 2014-15 C&E-Class models as they would not be cost-effective to replace the subframes on!!
Effectively forcing owners to have the subframes replace elsewhere!!
It is interesting that MBUSA owners are having the same sort of issues we are, with regard to the replacement of the Front to Rear brake pipes, with
timescales and costs!! Something that has cropped up in both the UK and the USA is that owners are turning up to pick up their cars after subframe
changes and are finding that they have numerous fault code, EML lights on, etc. that weren’t on when they dropped the cars off and the dealers are
saying that it is nothing to do with them and wanting to charge for fault finding? One owner took their back several times and each time it came out with
a different fault which when they took it back the dealership wanted to charge again for the diagnostics – something for owners to be aware of when
collecting their car after subframe replacements!! (This is being challenged currently)
Claims under the Extended Warranty Notice: In the USA, we have had; 6 ‘new claim’ subframes replaced, and 6 Retrospective Refunds that have been
repaid to owners so far.
I have rewritten the US version of the Retrospective Claims Paperwork, to take onto account, the current situation, and I am still working with owners in
the USA clarifying the retrospective claim process with MBUSA. Initial feedback from US owners is, that MBUSA have been contacted by owners,
some of whom have received full refunds whilst others have been offered amounts well below what they were claiming – this has been challenged and
will hopefully result in full refunds from MB in the near future.
I was looking if there would be any benefit to owners in the UK/Europe, if we were to push MB in Germany into issuing a similar ‘Extended Warranty
Notice’, to cover the claims in the UK and Europe, if they were to issue a Notice to cover the UK/Europe, it may have detrimental effect on the
timescale that MB will support the replacements of subframes (MB have limited the support time in the USA, by extending the Warranty Period from 10

to 20 years and, withdrawn any/all mileage limits to ‘unlimited mileage’), I have decided to leave things as they stand, With MB replacing the subframes
FOC at the moment, as this Notice is time-limited (to 20 years), I feel that there would be no advantage to pursue any change at this time, as some of
our models are pushing 19 years atm.
It is good that MB have issued this ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ in the USA which allows owners, in the USA, to get the same sort of service that we
have enjoyed over here in the UK and Europe? PLEASE NOTE: This Extended Warranty Notice ONLY applies to owners and vehicles in the USA.
Although, I am currently looking into whether the Extended Warranty Notice applies to owners in Canada?
There are worries from owners in the UK/European group, that the likely additional subframe needs through the increased number needed in the USA
(Potentially 10’s or even 100’s of thousands of subframes) will affect the supply of subframes to be available to the UK and Europe, this is a concern,
but, I feel that MB might find it more cost effective (shipping costs, timescales, etc.) to produce the subframes in the USA,? We will have to see what
happens, I don’t really, foresee issues with this, but we shall see. I will now be able to, more easily, manage the support that I can provide to owners
across the UK/Europe, USA, Canada, Australia, and Africa and keep things moving.
I have been contacted by a helpful MB Service Manager, at one of the dealerships on my ‘Good List’ who has provided me with information about some
of the issues we are experiencing currently – subframe delays, timescales, job-times, Goodwill Warranty, etc. This contact has provided information
that the ‘lead-time’ on subframes is approximately 2 – 3 weeks currently which has been very helpful with our current and future claims also, one of our
owners had received an email from Germany stating that MB had sent out a ‘How To Guide’ to all their dealerships regarding the replacement of
subframes. I questioned this with my MB Dealership Manager Contact, who checked and informed me that they hadn’t received anything, and they
checked all the information regarding subframe replacement and there has been nothing received by their dealership! This will help us, directly and
indirectly, with some additional cost issues we are currently experiencing with MBUK/Europe and MBUSA.
As you will remember, I had been approached by an owner in Germany, who is having issues getting their subframe replaced on their R171. I was
under the impression that MB in Germany were, effectively, replacing them as a matter of course, I can report that the subframe has been replaced in
Germany.
I have been sorting out an issue with Customer Services in Spain and France where they were trying to charge the owner to fit the new subframe, we
took the issue to Senior Management in Germany, and it was resolved by them, and the Dealerships in Spain and France fitted the new subframe
FOC.
Since I placed the four Posts on MB Subframe Corrosion on BenzWorld/Mercedes Benz Owners Club Forum Sites, there have been:
31000* Views of the R171 Rear Subframe Post, resulting in 175 direct contacts from owners to date,
32000* Views of the W204/W218/W212/C&W207/W214, Rear Subframe Post, resulting in 265 direct contacts from owners to date, and,
5000* Views of the W203 Rear Subframe Post, in the 12 months it has been up, there have now been 3 direct contacts from owners to date.
3000* Views of the W212 Rear Subframe Post, in the 11 months it has been up, there have been 18 contacts from owners to date.
1000* Views of the NEW R172 Polycarbonate Roof Water Ingress/Paint/ Subframes post, in the last 4 weeks
In-light of the email about a 2013, SL350 subframe collapsing due to corrosion, just 10 weeks after an MOT – Currently - 1 (BW) contact and, one
subframe collapse. FOC replacement has been completed by MB.
* Approx. Numbers recorded by BenzWorld
NOTE: Since the last monthly report, BenzWorld Admins have been in contact with me and, they have now posted information on the various issues I

cover, in the various Model (Chassis) sections on their sites, which will inform more owners of the safety and other issues and will enable more affected
owners to be able to contact me for help and advice.
Dave Evans
dave@castellni.co.uk

 

This effort by Dave is monumental and is saving lives not just cars.
Hats off to Dave and his work which has spread globally for owners.
If there was a Nobel prize for motoring safety it goes to Dave.
A real life David versus Goliath story still in the making.

 

‘Subframe Corner’ Monthly Update for, SLK Owners Club and BenzWorld Forum - 31/07/2023.

Hi folks, yes, it’s that time again, below is the latest monthly ‘Recorded Data’ Update, covering the period from March 2021 to 31 July 2023.
This report is mainly on the SLK R171, but also on other MB Models, regarding the rear subframe corrosion situation, keeping you informed of owners’ progress, successes, and other related rear subframe issues. There are also other issues with MB vehicles that we have also started to work with owners to challenge MB about.

Regarding R171 claims: We have now been contacted by 876 - R171 Owners in total and, are working with 350+ of them. 178 of these owners have come through BenzWorld/MBOC, most are from the UK and Northern Ireland but, we are still working with owners in Europe (Republic of Ireland, Isle of Man, Guernsey, Poland, Holland, France, Spain, Norway, Netherlands, Sweden, Bulgaria, Belarus, Germany, Cyprus, Romania) also Australia, New Zealand, Canada and still increasing numbers of owners in from the USA (of ALL affected MB Models) some US Owners are still asking for guidance with regard to the new ‘Extended Warranty Notice’.

With the R171, we have had 299 subframes replaced or authorised for replacement FOC (this includes 24 members whose vehicles are in Dealerships having subframes changed or are waiting for parts atm).

The latest count shows that we have had 42 - R171 subframes that have collapsed, and 1x hub casting collapse, whilst the cars were being driven, fortunately, there have been no serious injuries and no fatalities in our Owners Club. I have made a FoI Request to Nottingham Police, requested information on the accident video posted on the Club Facebook page of a post from, ‘Mail On-line’ to see if the SLK involved, was inspected at the time, regarding the condition of the subframe?

Currently, 53 of the subframes that have been inspected, have been passed as ‘Serviceable’, by MB Dealerships. As a matter of course, we have suggested that the owners have their subframes inspected by an Independent Garage to ensure that they are safe. This is advised, after one of our owners’ subframe collapsed less than 2 months after being passed as serviceable by MB.
We have also had 32 owners out of a total of 39, who have had their subframes changed FOC, despite them having been welded and, we have 7 owners with welded subframes, waiting for theirs to be inspected. Worryingly, we have recently had an issue with some, initially, ‘Good List’ Dealerships making their own decisions as to whether the welded subframes should be replaced, this takes the decision away from, MBCS UK who are not given the option to approve the replacement of welded subframes, on the previous report, it can be seen that this seemed to have been successfully challenged and was over-turned by Management in Germany. Unfortunately, things have not returned to the way it was in the past. Dealerships should not be making the decisions; this is up to MBCS UK!! This issue has been brought to the attention of senior management in MB Germany! I have produced a draft email for owners to personalise and send, along with their Video recording, initially, to MBCS UK and if they don’t act, we can use a similar email to escalate the issue to the Directors and CEO of Mercedes Benz Cars AG in Germany.
There is still a lack of consistency in these decisions. A couple of owners were left only with the option, to contact MB senior management in Germany which they did, and Senior Management in Germany investigated the issues and overturned the Dealership and MBUK decisions.
I have had some dealerships moved to the ‘To Avoid’ List, and will no longer promote this dealership with owners, and, moved some Dealerships to the ‘Good List’; Again, all positions will be kept under review!
Some Dealerships (now on my ‘To Avoid’ List) are still demanding a signed agreement from Owners, that the owner will agree to pay costs, up to £1800, for “components they ‘may’ have to replace”, in advance of work starting (owners SHOULD NOT agree to this!! Contact me if this is requested!! It is important that owners challenge this, I will send them information that should help. I have also suggested that, if this doesn’t work, that they should take their cars to another dealership, from a different Dealership Group. There has been some movement from these initial challenges, dealerships undertake the subframe replacement and are, generally, changing their minds about pursuing or at least substantially, reducing these charges – as you know, have new contact information for senior MB Management in Daimler/Mercedes-Benz AG, in Germany, which we will continue to use, if/when we escalate any complaints; Some other dealership issues/complaints are still being investigated and will be reported back on, in due course!

We still, occasionally, have some owners who are receiving the initial reply from MBCS UK, saying that owners should have a FMBSH, and that they should take the car to an MB Dealership for a Safety Check! NOTE: We still only have ONE owner out of the 298 who have had their subframes replaced FOC, with anything like a FMBSH.

There is still a reluctance, on the part of MB Dealerships, to detail the replacement of the rear subframe on receipts/invoices, for Owners’ Service History, as under a 1/5 are being recorded on owners’ receipts/invoices. Currently, of the owners who have responded; 23 SLK owners have a ‘subframe replaced’ receipt and, 140 have not.

There is still a concern, that some MB Dealerships are still trying to coerce owners to pay for parts which should be covered by the Warranty, i.e., nuts, bolts, brackets, Mountings, etc. and some of the prices quoted, do appear excessive for what is identified (Up to £1200)!! Again, we challenge this behaviour! We have had one dealership wanting to charge £2300 to replace brake pipes and fuel pipe stating that it will take 13 hours?? I spoke to a MB Dealership Workshop Manager who says that there isn’t a ‘set’ time for the brake-pipe replacement but, in their dealership, they charge around 2 - 3 hours labour if the brake-pipes are replaced with a subframe replacement.
It is good to see, that MB are still undertaking subframe replacements and, the current turn-around time on authorisation does, in general, seem to be substantially quicker, unfortunately dealerships are saying that there is a shortage of subframes in the UK at the moment, which does slow the actual turn-round time and, some Dealerships are currently saying that it takes 3 months or longer, we are challenging this both Locally (MBCS UK) and with the Directors and CEO of D/MB AG in Germany. My Dealership Service Manager contacts inform me that the lead time on subframes is about 2 – 3 weeks.
I keep getting requests from owners questioning timescales for the supply of new subframes – mainly R171’s, but including C & E-Class – I have produced a draft email for owners to send to MBCS UK to see if they can help provide some sort of timescale? I have also drafted an email for owners to send to the Directors and CEO on D/MB AG in Germany, I have heard from an owner who used the draft email to contact the Directors and CEO of Daimler Mercedes-Benz AG in Germany, about timescales for delivery – the CEO was not happy with the reasons given for the delays, and contacted the dealership, the subframe was delivered within a few days and fitted, there were no additional charges! Success!
There had been issues importing new subframes into Germany, from wherever MB were importing them?
I have heard from an owner, who has been informed by a dealership, that MB have changed their subframe manufacturer and, the new subframes are supposed to be rust protected inside, we will have to see? In any case, I would treat the inside with Waxoyl from new just in case? But it is good to hear that subframes are being imported again, we will have to see how things progress. According to my MB Contact there is about a 2 – 3 week lead time on subframes, currently.

Unfortunately, I have received information that an owner was informed that a dealership had refused to accept receipt of 5 NEW subframes as they had heavy corrosion on them, upon delivery, with this in mind I have suggested that owners check the condition of their new subframes upon collection of the car after replacement and, suggested that owners who have had their subframes replaced already, to check the subframes as soon as possible, especially, as only about 1/5 of owners are getting a receipt showing the subframe replacement. I have also suggested that owners contact MB and check that the replacement of their subframe is recorded on the MB Vehicle Database/Service History to make sure that they are recorded just in case there are any corrosion issues in future.

The Owners Club and I have had a mention in May 2022 Issue of the Car Mechanics Magazine regarding our crusade for FOC subframe replacements as we helped them get the subframe replaced FOC by MB on their ‘Project Mercedes’ rebuild of an R171! (a copy of the article has been published on the Club Facebook Pages a copy is available, via email, upon request) this will help add weight to the information we send out regarding the Subframe replacement issues to MB Dealerships, MBCS UK.

Subframes - Retrospective Reimbursement Claims.

This is progressing slowly, I have sent information to owners, most in the USA, and I will continue to send out information sheets and Draft emails, for all owners to personalise and send-off to D/MB AG in Germany; I will continue to keep owners informed as things progress.
As I said in the last monthly report, I heard from owners who had to pay for their own subframe replacements, and we have had 3 UK owners who have been reimbursed for their subframes and, in one case, some other components that they were charged for, I am sure that this will continue to be successful for owners who have been out of pocket.
This is less of an issue in the USA, I have produced a Retrospective Reimbursement Claim Form for the USA as we have owners in the US that are in the same situation, this is now needed; as MB have now issued an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ which they have issued through MBUSA, allowing all US dealerships to now replace the subframe FOC and, to allow owners to claim, retrospectively, for replacements undertaken by third party garages on all affected models. Owners just need to produce all their receipts, as our owners over here do, as proof.

Should owners have any questions or issues? I am available to be contacted through the Club Facebook Page, BenzWorld and directly by email, should owners want to discuss individual; Cases/Issues/Problems/Good Dealerships/Dealerships to Avoid, etc. and, if they should require any Moral Support through the process.

I hope this Data informs and encourages other owners to look at the current situation, regarding R171 rear subframe replacements and, prompt them to either, check or, get their subframes checked, for safety’s sake? We have now had a total of 99 subframes collapse, across the MB Range, this is just with owners that I have been working with, through the Owners Club and BenzWorld, and all have collapsed whilst the cars were being driven!

Other Mercedes Benz Models and Other Issues.

R170 Models

I’ve been approached by 7x R170 owners, I’ve put together an information sheet, even though they are not listed on the SSD, it’s worth trying under the Goodwill Warranty. So far 6 owners have now taken this up – one owner is having their claim reviewed by MB in Germany currently. Although we have had no success as yet, we will continue to try; I will keep owners updated as/if things progress.

R172 Models:

Don’t forget that there could also be issues with corrosion on R172 rear subframes, I have compiled an Information Sheet for the R172!
To date, we have 41 owners who have requested the Information Sheet for the R172 rear subframes. We have had 2 Subframe collapse, and 1 subframe replaced so far and we have had 3 subframe inspected that were passed as OK!! We have just had an owner contact me and they have had an R172 subframe collapse; This has now been replaced, FOC by MB, there is ONE outstanding that has collapsed.

SLK R172 & R231 - Laminated Roof Issues: Glass Roof leaks**

I have received a copy of the MB Notice: G177.30-P-055700 Polycarbonate roof – water ingress issues – Version 3, Issued 10/16/2013. This describes the issues with the polycarbonate roof delamination – with photos – with test and repair information. This shows that there must have been issues with the polycarbonate roof as long ago as 2013 when this Notice was issued. I have noted that, in the repair section there are no timescales for the repair set down for the various actions. This document was printed off on the 10/03/2023 so no amendments have been made to this section, and it could be argued, that this could suggest that the repair may be covered under the Goodwill Warranty? We will have to see – I have been contacted by 46x UK/European owners, One through BenzWorld, and One R231 Owner, regarding their Roof, and the water ingress issues, to date. Since I posted this issue on the Club Facebook Page, we have had one owner who has had their leaking roof issue repaired FOC, this was undertaken by the Dealership who sold the vehicle – the dealership said that they were repairing the roof at their own expense - not through any specific Warranty (not even the MB Approved Used Car Warranty, which was still in effect on the vehicle?) Issues with these claims seem to be MBUK refusing to allow action to remedy the distorted and delaminated and leaking roof problem from going ahead, not necessarily the dealerships! – On a personal note: I have now approached Senior Management in Germany (on 20 July 2023) on behalf of a small group of some 40+ owners, regarding the roof issues, putting forward an agreed email, in which the roof issues are discussed in detail. This is an ongoing discussion with MB Germany, owners will be automatically updated by return emails from Senior Management, as the owners, who have agreed to share their email addresses, (conforming to the UK’s, GDPR Legislation) are openly CC’d into the email sent to MB Germany. On Wednesday, 26 July 2023, I received two replies from Rohini Boyles in Germany; I have forwarded the latest (received 31/July 2023) to owners in the R172 Roof group for their comments, prior to discussing progressing their claims. I will keep all owners updated as things progress.
R172 Glass Roof** - I’ve been informed that there are water ingress issues with this model, it could be seals, alignment or locking issues; I am looking into this issue.

SLK R172 and W212 Fire Opal Red and potentially, Mars Red Paintwork issues:

There are issues with the Fire Opal Red/Mars Red paintwork on the R172 and now, apparently, on the W212 Models, and getting MB to even look at the paintwork let alone get resprays approved and completed FOC, is problematic, owners can use our Draft Email ‘Paintwork’ claims paperwork, to make the claim through MBCS UK and the MB Dealerships (Bodywork), contact me if you are having issues with the paintwork on Fire Opal Red/Mars Red R172’s or the W212 models. So far, we have had 8 owners who have contacted me, we have been successful so far on 4 occasions – Ongoing!

R231 Models (New Model)

In last month’s report, I informed the groups that I was contacted by the owner of 2013 SL350 with 60k on the clock they bought it 5 weeks after it had been MOT’d and the subframe has collapsed, I feel that it is important to get the information out there that this Model is also susceptible to collapse, to warn owners.
After the dealership sent the report to MB in Germany, I can report that the replacement of the subframe has been approved by MB and, that it has now been replaced FOC. I have had a look on various MB Forum worldwide, and the subframe corrosion on the R231 appears to be quite a common issue, I have also posted an Introductory Message, warning owners of the subframe corrosion/collapsing issues on the R231 BenzWorld pages, and, on the Owners Club Facebook page, as we also need to keep an eye on this model within the Owners Club/BenzWorld Forum!

X204 Model (New Model)

I have been approached by the owner of a 2010 GLK with a rotten rear subframe, the claim process has been started, although the X204 isn’t specifically listed on the SSD, it is however based on the W204 floor-pan. The subframe has been replaced FOC by MB .

W176 Model (New Model)

Just had one report from an owner of a W176 (A-Class) that their subframe has been reported to be in an unsafe condition due to serious corrosion – a modified Draft email has been sent to the owner to send to Germany – awaiting feedback. I will keep owners updated.

W204, W218, W203, W212, W219 and C207 Models:

In the last 12 months, we have been working with, some 338 owners of W204/W218/W203/W212/W219/C207 (C-Class & E-Class), most, have approached me directly, 288 of them, through the ‘BenzWorld’ Forum Site. Owners are from the UK and across Europe, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, and still owners from all across the USA.
We have had 57 owners of these models whose subframes have collapsed whilst their cars were being driven, some as new as 2014/15 we have had 7 subframes 5x W204, 1x W212 and 1x W218 in the UK that have been passed as serviceable by MB Dealerships and, 3 subframes that have been welded.

Of the 338 owners of W204/W218/W203/W212/C207 Models worked with, we have had some success with subframe replacements; of the 92 subframes (79x W204, 6x W218, 5x W212 and 1x W203), in the UK and Europe, 96 have been inspected to date, MB have replaced or agreed to replace 91 subframes, FOC. 4 of which had been welded. Of the 92 replaced FOC. Information from respondents have reported that: 5 have and 30 have not received receipts/invoices listing the subframe replacement.
The vehicles currently being worked with, are mainly, W204’s & W218’s – 2010- 2014, the W212 – some of these models were built as late as 2015 with mileages as little as 40k which have collapses, and the W203’s built from 2003 onwards. We did have dealerships in the USA suggesting that owners ‘Scrap’ 2011 – 2015 C & E-Class models because of the subframes corrosion – not a good advert for Mercedes Benz in the USA that owners should scrap them after between 8 - 11 years!!!
We are currently working with 97, USA Owners of SLK & C&E-Class models.
There were serious issues with MBUSA, and I had to provide substantially more information to US owners, this additional information was needed when owners were dealing with US Dealerships and with MBUSA. The problems in the USA have now been addressed, with the issuance of an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ I will keep members updated with progress on the R172, W204, W218, W203 and W212, etc. models, in the USA as claims – new and retrospective - Progressing.

Bubbling and Lifting paint/Lacquer - ‘Fire Opal Red’ Paint on R172 & W212 Models

I have been helping 9x R172 and 1x W212 owners who have bubbling/peeling of their ‘Opal Red’ paintwork – there have been issues with Dealerships and MBCS UK refusing to examine vehicles with this paint problem – but, I have put together a Draft email and information sheet to get Dealerships to examine the paintwork on affected vehicles, we have had another success and an owner has succeeded in getting their bodywork examined and, MB agreed to a full respray the vehicle FOC providing that the paintwork is original, the car has now been resprayed FOC by MB. Should anyone have this problem with their paintwork, and require an information sheet, please contact me.

General Information:
As some of you know I have been working with Andrew Everett from Car Mechanics Magazine, re: ‘Project Mercedes’ which was undertaken on an R171, by the Magazine (Re: The subframe Issues). They used our Claim paperwork and had their subframe replaced FOC and the Club and I both got a mention in the article as leading a crusade to support owners with corroded and collapsed subframe issues.

There is also an Article, published in the ‘Gebrauchtwagen’ Motoring Magazine in Germany, that suggested that MB are going to undertake the replacement of corroded subframes FOC, on Models that have, what MB term – ‘multi-link rear suspension’, these would include the majority of models listed on the MB Service Supplement Document regarding rear subframes: S135.00-P-0009A Service Information: Supplement to notes in maintenance documents on rear axle. Issued 05-11-2018”, which includes the R171, the main stipulations within the Article being, that; “the subframes should be inspected and their replacement undertaken, in MB Dealerships

I received a message from one of the Administrators on BenzWorld Forum, which said; “Hello Dave, just a message to thank you for supporting our members that have that rear sub-frame issue, it's very kind of you to go to so much trouble. I've read many of the posts from concerned members who have that sub-frame issue, and it has been a great relief that I can now refer them to you. Are Mercedes-Benz now prepared to address this issue and effect repairs FOC, or do you have to fight each claim on an individual basis? Once again, very many thanks, your help is much appreciated. Very best wishes, James." Which shows that what we are doing is appreciated beyond the bounds of the Club.
I am still involved in a 4-way conversation with the three lawyers in the USA who are compiling a 'Class Action' against MB over in the US during which we discussed how the information I have compile dover the past 2 year may assist them in compiling their case. They seemed a little surprised when they asked how many owners I was working with and I told them with the main groups of SLK and C & E-Class owners that I am working with over 1000 currently and the numbers continue to grow!
As I identified in my last report, “Regarding the FOC subframe replacement of subframes by MB; that we needed to identify the timescales involved; if it applies to ALL Models that have multi-link suspension; All the models listed in the Article; and, if the FOC subframe replacements, apply worldwide?” I can also report that we are having success in Europe with the FOC replacement of a rear subframe and no additional charges, for an owner in Cyprus which is excellent news – this is added to the owners in Spain and the ones in the USA and apparently the Extended Warranty Notice looks like it may also apply to Canada, but we are clarifying this atm.

Direct contact with Senior Management in Daimler, Mercedes-Benz Car AG in Germany.

I have contacted Senior management in Germany with a possible view to working directly with them with regard to providing information to owners in the Owners Club and on BenzWorld to help reduce the level of contact with owners who effectively come through me initially – The Board have decided that they want to be contacted by Owners directly, as they want to be able to act directly on owners feedback. Dave.

I am also working directly, with ‘Admins’ across the ‘BenzWorld Forum’ have posted a substantial amount of information regarding the various issues MB owners are experiencing and are now actively promoting what we are doing to support MB Owners with the subframe and other issues.

‘Extended Warranty Notice’ EWN (MBUSA Only)

As I stated in previous monthly Report, Mercedes-Benz have, after some 8 months of pressurising them, MB have now issued an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’, through MBUSA, stating that they will now replace the corroded subframes FOC on ALL affected MB Models in the USA, and, that owners who have paid to have their subframes replaced, we are now able to make Retrospective Claims for owners to be reimbursed. It currently appears that these reimbursements include owners who, through MBUSA’s indifference/intransichance, and/or the Dealerships attitude towards them, have had their subframes replaced by Third Party Garages – I am, as expected, receiving posts from some MB owners in the USA, who are trying to claim retrospective refunds as identified in the Extended Warranty Notice, owners are complaining that the amounts that MBUSA/Dealerships will refund, nowhere near cover their actual costs!!
I still don’t understand why MB can’t just admit they got it wrong and do the thing properly? As I felt this may be the situation, I had already put together a draft email for owners to use to press MBUSA and MB-Germany to pay the full costs - parts and labour, as the behaviour of the US Dealerships was appalling – Dealership suggesting owner scrap 2014-15 C&E-Class models as they would not be cost-effective to replace the subframes on!! Effectively forcing owners to have the subframes replace elsewhere!! I am hearing from some US Owners that they are now receiving retrospective refunds for their self-funded subframe replacements.
It is interesting that MBUSA owners are having the same sort of issues we are, with regard to the replacement of the Front to Rear brake pipes, with timescales and costs!! Something that has cropped up in both the UK and the USA is that owners are turning up to pick up their cars after subframe changes and are finding that they have numerous fault code, EML lights on, etc. that weren’t on when they dropped the cars off and the dealers are saying that it is nothing to do with them and wanting to charge for fault finding? One owner took their back several times and each time it came out with a different fault which when they took it back the dealership wanted to charge again for the diagnostics – something for owners to be aware of when collecting their car after subframe replacements!! (This is still a little challenging, currently)
Claims under the Extended Warranty Notice: In the USA, we have had; 6 ‘new claim’ subframes replaced, and 6 Retrospective Refunds that have been repaid to owners so far.
I have rewritten the US version of the Retrospective Claims Paperwork, to take onto account, the current situation, and I am still working with owners in the USA clarifying the retrospective claim process with MBUSA. Initial feedback from US owners is, that MBUSA have been contacted by owners, some of whom have received full refunds whilst others have been offered amounts well below what they were claiming – this has been challenged and will hopefully result in full refunds from MB in the near future.
I was looking if there would be any benefit to owners in the UK/Europe, if we were to push MB in Germany into issuing a similar ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ (EWN) to cover the claims in the UK and Europe, if they were to issue a Notice to cover the UK/Europe, it may have detrimental effect on the timescale that MB will support the replacements of subframes (MB have limited the support time in the USA, by extending the Warranty Period from 10, to 20 years and, withdrawn any/all mileage limits to ‘unlimited mileage’), I have decided to leave things as they stand, with MB replacing the subframes FOC at the moment, as this ‘EWN’ is time-limited (to 20 years), I feel that there would be no advantage to pursue any change at this time, as some of our models are pushing 19 years atm. I will continue to review this!

It is good that MB have issued this ‘EWN in the USA which allows owners, in the USA, to get the same sort of service that we have enjoyed over here in the UK and Europe? PLEASE NOTE: This Extended Warranty Notice ONLY applies to owners and vehicles in the USA. Although, I am currently looking into whether the EWN applies to owners in Canada?
There are worries from owners in the UK/European group, that the likely additional subframe needs through the increased number needed in the USA (Potentially 10’s or even 100’s of thousands of subframes) will affect the supply of subframes to be available to the UK and Europe, this is a concern, but, I feel that MB might find it more cost effective (shipping costs, timescales, etc.) to produce the subframes in the USA,? We will have to see what happens, I don’t really, foresee issues with this, but we shall see. I will now be able to, more easily, manage the support that I can provide to owners across the UK/Europe, USA, Canada, Australia, and Africa and keep things moving.

I have been contacted by a helpful MB Service Manager, at one of the dealerships on my ‘Good List’ who has provided me with information about some of the issues we are experiencing currently – subframe delays, timescales, job-times, Goodwill Warranty, etc. This contact has provided information that the ‘lead-time’ on subframes is approximately 2 – 3 weeks currently which has been very helpful with our current and future claims also, one of our owners had received an email from Germany stating that MB had sent out a ‘How To’ Guide, to all their dealerships regarding the replacement of subframes. I questioned this with my MB Dealership Manager Contacts, who have checked, and they have informed me that they hadn’t received anything, and they checked all the information regarding subframe replacement and there has been no ‘How To’ Guide, received by their dealerships! This will help us, directly and indirectly, with some additional cost issues we are currently experiencing with MBUK/Europe and MBUSA.

As you will remember, I had been approached by an owner in Germany, who is having issues getting their subframe replaced on their R171. I was under the impression that MB in Germany were, effectively, replacing them as a matter of course, I can report that the subframe has been replaced FOC by MB in Germany.
I have been sorting out an issue with Customer Services’ in Spain, France, Sweden and Romania, where Dealerships were trying to charge the owner to fit the new subframe, we took the issue to Senior Management in Germany, and it was resolved by them, and the Dealerships in Spain and France fitted the new subframe FOC, we are waiting for a reply from the owners in Romania, regarding the response from their dealerships. Ongoing.

Since I, and more recently, the BenzWorld Admin Team, placed Posts on MB Subframe Corrosion on the BenzWorld, Forum, there have been:

33000* Views of the R171 Rear Subframe Post, resulting in 178 direct contacts from owners since 2021,

57000* Views of the W204/W218/C&W207/W214, Rear Subframe Post, resulting in 285 direct contacts from these owners in the last 13 months,

5000* Views of the W203 Rear Subframe Post, in the 13 months it has been posted, there have now been 3 direct contacts from owners to date.

3000* Views of the W212 Rear Subframe Post, in the 13 months it has been up, there have been 18 contacts from owners to date.

1000* Views of the NEW R172 Polycarbonate Roof, Water Ingress/Paint/ Subframes post, in the last 4 months.

In-light of the email about a 2013, SL350 subframe collapsing due to corrosion, just 10 weeks after an MOT – Currently - 1 (BW) contact and, one subframe collapse. FOC replacement has been completed by MB.

* Approx. Numbers recorded by BenzWorld
NOTE: Since the last monthly report, BenzWorld Admins have been in contact with me and, they have now posted information on the various issues I cover, in the various Model (Chassis) sections on their sites, which will inform more owners of the safety and other issues and will enable more affected owners to be able to contact me for help and advice.
Dave Evans
dave@castellni.co.uk

 

Dave I can't even express in words how massively
impressed I am at the amount of progress you have
made. I do not have an affected car, but am still
grateful to know you are doing all of this.

 

It really isn't an issue, and it keeps MB owners safe!! As you may have read I am working directly with MB Senior Management in Germany and with, and on behalf of, a Group of around 45 owners with issues with their Polycarbonate Laminated Roof, Re: distortion, delamination and water ingress through the roof and we are having a useful dialogue with MB Management currently, I will keep owners appraised of any progress in my monthly reports Dave Evans

 

Hi Folks, a bit of information on rear subframe claims: I have, today, received an email from one of the owners I am working with who lives in Canada - He has received an email/letter from MB Canada which states that MB have issued an Extended Warranty Notice (the same as the one in the USA), extending the Warranty from 5 to 20 years and doing away with the mileage limits too, for all owners in Canada to be able to claim FOC subframe replacement. This is excellent news for owners in Canada. I just thought I would bring this information to the attention of owners of the various affected MB Models covered by the Extended Warranty Notices - USA and Canada - I have an Information Sheet, and a copy of the letter sent to the owner in Canada. I will keep owners informed as this claim progresses and any issues that might arise with the claim, speak to you all soon Dave Evans

 

Hi Folks, in a bit of a diversion from my usual subjects – subframes, paint and polycarbonate roofs, etc.
Just for owners’ information: -
I am thinking about Headlamp Lens polishing. What brought this to mind, was that my lad successfully polished the lenses on my SLK and my Nissan X-Trail this last week: I have some experience of working with 'crazing' in Perspex canopies on fighter aircraft in a past life.
As most of you may know, the modern headlamp lens is made of a lacquered polycarbonate (Perspex type material). We are also aware, that the lacquer ‘yellows’ and breaks down from contact with UV rays from the Sun.
As owners, we are also aware of the polishing process, whether we undertake this ourselves or pay a specialist to carry out the work.
I am aware that some owners on here have found, that when they had finished polishing their lenses, that some of their lenses have ‘crazed’. This is also down to the UV issue. Unfortunately, you can’t polish ‘crazing’ out of the lenses.
Having looked at lenses on various makes of car we have done recently, it appears that crazing is more prevalent if affected lacquer is left too long before being polished.
On some of the headlights we have done recently, where the lacquer had started to breakdown with very, very fine cracks, the crazing of the lens had started to follow the fine cracks in the lacquer. Having noticed this, I would perhaps, suggest that owners have the lenses polished sooner rather than later or you could end up needing new lenses/light units, with their accompanying costs. I hope this is helpful to owners who aren't sure whether to get their lenses polished or leave them for now? Dave Evans - dave@castellni.co.uk

 

‘Subframe Corner’ Monthly Update for, SLK Owners Club Facebook and BenzWorld Forum Pages - 31/08/2023.

Hi folks, yes, it’s that time again, below is the latest monthly ‘Recorded Data’ Update, covering the period from March 2021 to 31 August 2023.
This report is mainly on the SLK R171, but also on other MB Models, regarding the rear subframe corrosion situation, keeping you informed of owners’ progress, successes, and other related rear subframe issues. There are also other issues with MB vehicles that we have also started to work with owners to challenge MB about.

R171 Model

We have now been contacted by 900 - R171 Owners in total and, are working with 350+ of them. 181 of these owners have come through BenzWorld/MBOC, most are from the UK and Northern Ireland but, we are still working with owners in Europe (Republic of Ireland, Isle of Man, Isle of Whight, Guernsey, Poland, Holland, France, Spain, Norway, Netherlands, Sweden, Bulgaria, Belarus, Germany, Cyprus, Romania) also Australia, New Zealand, Canada and still increasing numbers of owners in from the USA (of ALL affected MB Models) some US Owners are still asking for guidance with regard to the new ‘Extended Warranty Notice’.

With the R171, we have had 312 subframes replaced or authorised for replacement FOC (this includes 24 members whose vehicles are in Dealerships having subframes changed or are waiting for parts atm).

The latest count shows that we have had 42 - R171 subframes that have collapsed, and 1x hub casting collapse, whilst the cars were being driven, fortunately, there have been no serious injuries and no fatalities in our Owners Club. I have made a FoI Request to Nottingham Police, requested information on the accident video posted on the Club Facebook page of a post from, ‘Mail On-line’ to see if the SLK involved, was inspected at the time, regarding the condition of the subframe?

Currently, 53 of the subframes that have been inspected, have been passed as ‘Serviceable’, by MB Dealerships. As a matter of course, we have suggested that the owners have their subframes inspected by an Independent Garage to ensure that they are safe. This is advised, after one of our owners’ subframe collapsed less than 2 months after being passed as serviceable by MB.
We have also had 33 owners out of a total of 39, who have had their subframes changed FOC, despite them having been welded and, we have 6 owners with welded subframes, waiting for theirs to be inspected. Worryingly, we have recently had an issue with some, initially, ‘Good List’ Dealerships making their own decisions as to whether the welded subframes should be replaced, this takes the decision away from, MBCS UK who are not given the option to approve the replacement of welded subframes, on the previous report, it can be seen that this seemed to have been successfully challenged and was over-turned by Management in Germany. Unfortunately, things have not returned to the way it was in the past. Dealerships should not be making the decisions; this is up to MBCS UK!! This issue has been brought to the attention of senior management in MB Germany! I have produced a draft email for owners to personalise and send, along with their Video recording, initially, to MBCS UK and if they don’t act, we can use a similar email to escalate the issue to the Directors and CEO of Mercedes Benz Cars AG in Germany.
There is still a lack of consistency in these decisions. A couple of owners were left only with the option, to contact MB senior management in Germany which they did, and Senior Management in Germany investigated the issues and overturned the Dealership and MBUK decisions.
I have had some dealerships moved to the ‘To Avoid’ List, and will no longer promote this dealership with owners, and, moved some Dealerships to the ‘Good List’; Again, all positions will be kept under review!
Some Dealerships (now on my ‘To Avoid’ List) are still demanding a signed agreement from Owners, that the owner will agree to pay costs, up to £1800, for “components they ‘may’ have to replace”, in advance of work starting (owners SHOULD NOT agree to this!! Contact me if this is requested!! It is important that owners challenge this, I will send them information that should help. I have also suggested that, if this doesn’t work, that they should take their cars to another dealership, from a different Dealership Group. There has been some movement from these initial challenges, dealerships undertake the subframe replacement and are, generally, changing their minds about pursuing or at least substantially, reducing these charges – as you know, have new contact information for senior MB Management in Daimler/Mercedes-Benz AG, in Germany, which we will continue to use, if/when we escalate any complaints; Some other dealership issues/complaints are still being investigated and will be reported back on, in due course!

We still, occasionally, have some owners who are receiving the initial reply from MBCS UK, saying that owners should have a FMBSH, and that they should take the car to an MB Dealership for a Safety Check! NOTE: We still only have ONE owner out of the 311 who have had their subframes replaced FOC, with anything like a FMBSH.

There is still a reluctance, on the part of MB Dealerships, to detail the replacement of the rear subframe on receipts/invoices, for Owners’ Service History, as under a 1/5 are being recorded on owners’ receipts/invoices. Currently, of the owners who have responded; 23 SLK owners have a ‘subframe replaced’ receipt and, 144 have not.

There is still a concern, that some MB Dealerships are still trying to coerce owners to pay for parts which should be covered by the Warranty, i.e., nuts, bolts, brackets, Mountings, etc. and some of the prices quoted, do appear excessive for what is identified (Up to £1200)!! Again, we challenge this behaviour! We have had one dealership wanting to charge £2300 to replace brake pipes and fuel pipe stating that it will take 13 hours?? I spoke to a MB Dealership Workshop Manager who says that there isn’t a ‘set’ time for the brake-pipe replacement but, in their dealership, they charge around 2 - 3 hours labour if the brake-pipes are replaced with a subframe replacement.
It is good to see, that MB are still undertaking subframe replacements and, the current turn-around time on authorisation does, in general, seem to be substantially quicker, unfortunately dealerships are saying that there is a shortage of subframes in the UK at the moment, which does slow the actual turn-round time and, some Dealerships are currently saying that it takes 3 months or longer, we are challenging this both Locally (MBCS UK) and with the Directors and CEO of D/MB AG in Germany. My Dealership Service Manager contacts inform me that the lead time on subframes is about 2 – 3 weeks.
I keep getting requests from owners questioning timescales for the supply of new subframes – mainly R171’s, but including C & E-Class – I have produced a draft email for owners to send to MBCS UK to see if they can help provide some sort of timescale? I have also drafted an email for owners to send to the Directors and CEO on D/MB AG in Germany, I have heard from an owner who used the draft email to contact the Directors and CEO of Daimler Mercedes-Benz AG in Germany, about timescales for delivery – the CEO was not happy with the reasons given for the delays, and contacted the dealership, the subframe was delivered within a few days and fitted, there were no additional charges! Success!
There had been issues importing new subframes into Germany, from wherever MB were importing them?
I have heard from an owner, who has been informed by a dealership, that MB have changed their subframe manufacturer and, the new subframes are supposed to be rust protected inside, we will have to see? In any case, I would treat the inside with Waxoyl from new just in case? But it is good to hear that subframes are being imported again, we will have to see how things progress. According to my MB Contact there is about a 2 – 3 week lead time on subframes, currently.

Unfortunately, I have received information that an owner was informed that a dealership had refused to accept receipt of 5 NEW subframes as they had heavy corrosion on them, upon delivery, with this in mind I have suggested that owners check the condition of their new subframes upon collection of the car after replacement and, suggested that owners who have had their subframes replaced already, to check the subframes as soon as possible, especially, as only about 1/5 of owners are getting a receipt showing the subframe replacement. I have also suggested that owners contact MB and check that the replacement of their subframe is recorded on the MB Vehicle Database/Service History to make sure that they are recorded just in case there are any corrosion issues in future.

The Owners Club and I have had a mention in May 2022 Issue of the Car Mechanics Magazine regarding our crusade for FOC subframe replacements as we helped them get the subframe replaced FOC by MB on their ‘Project Mercedes’ rebuild of an R171! (a copy of the article has been published on the Club Facebook Pages a copy is available, via email, upon request) this will help add weight to the information we send out regarding the Subframe replacement issues to MB Dealerships, MBCS UK.

Subframes - Retrospective Reimbursement Claims.

This is progressing slowly, I have sent information to owners, most in the USA, and I will continue to send out information sheets and Draft emails, for all owners to personalise and send-off to D/MB AG in Germany; I will continue to keep owners informed as things progress.
As I said in the last monthly report, I heard from owners who had to pay for their own subframe replacements, and we have had 3 UK owners who have been reimbursed for their subframes and, in one case, some other components that they were charged for, I am sure that this will continue to be successful for owners who have been out of pocket.
This is less of an issue in the USA, I have produced a Retrospective Reimbursement Claim Form for the USA as we have owners in the US that are in the same situation, this is now needed; as MB have now issued an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ which they have issued through MBUSA, allowing all US dealerships to now replace the subframe FOC and, to allow owners to claim, retrospectively, for replacements undertaken by third party garages on all affected models. Owners just need to produce all their receipts, as our owners over here do, as proof.

Should owners have any questions or issues? I am available to be contacted through the Club Facebook Page, BenzWorld and directly by email, should owners want to discuss individual; Cases/Issues/Problems/Good Dealerships/Dealerships to Avoid, etc. and, if they should require any Moral Support through the process.

I hope this Data informs and encourages other owners to look at the current situation, regarding R171 rear subframe replacements and, prompt them to either, check or, get their subframes checked, for safety’s sake? We have now had a total of 99 subframes collapse, across the MB Range, this is just with owners that I have been working with, through the Owners Club and BenzWorld, and all have collapsed whilst the cars were being driven!

Other Mercedes Benz Models and Other Issues.

R170 Models

I’ve been approached by 7x R170 owners, I’ve put together an information sheet, even though they are not listed on the SSD, it’s worth trying under the Goodwill Warranty. So far 6 owners have now taken this up – one owner is having their claim reviewed by MB in Germany currently. Although we have had no success as yet, we will continue to try; I will keep owners updated as/if things progress.

R172 Models:

Don’t forget that there could also be issues with corrosion on R172 rear subframes, I have compiled an Information Sheet for the R172!
To date, we have 41 owners who have requested the Information Sheet for the R172 rear subframes. We have had 2 Subframe collapse, and 1 subframe replaced so far and we have had 3 subframe inspected that were passed as OK!! We have just had an owner contact me and they have had an R172 subframe collapse; This has now been replaced, FOC by MB, there is ONE outstanding that has collapsed.

SLK R172 & R231 - Laminated Roof Issues: inc. Glass Roof leaks**

I have received a copy of the MB Notice: G177.30-P-055700 Polycarbonate roof – water ingress issues – Version 3, Issued 10/16/2013. This describes the issues with the polycarbonate roof delamination – with photos – with test and repair information. This shows that there must have been issues with the polycarbonate roof as long ago as 2013 when this Notice was issued. I have noted that, in the repair section there are no timescales for the repair set down for the various actions. This document was printed off on the 10/03/2023 so no amendments have been made to this section, and it could be argued, that this could suggest that the repair may be covered under the Goodwill Warranty? We will have to see – I have been contacted by 48x R172 UK/European owners, and One R231 Owner, regarding their Roof, and the water ingress issues, to date. Since I posted this issue on the Club Facebook Page, we have had one owner who has had their leaking roof issue repaired FOC, this was undertaken by the Dealership who sold the vehicle – the dealership said that they were repairing the roof at their own expense - not through any specific Warranty (not even the MB Approved Used Car Warranty, which was still in effect on the vehicle?) Issues with these claims seem to be MBUK refusing to allow action to remedy the distorted and delaminated and leaking roof problem from going ahead, not necessarily the dealerships! – After some in-depth discussion with Senior Management in Germany, they have come up with some suggestions in the way owners could pursue their polycarbonate roof claims, I have produced an information sheet for owners of affected vehicles, which reflect these suggestions: I will report back any feedback I receive from the affected owners, and keep members informed as things progress.
R172 Glass Roof** - I’ve been informed that there are water ingress issues with this model, it could be seals, alignment or locking issues; I am still looking into this issue.

SLK R172 and W212 Fire Opal Red and potentially, Mars Red Paintwork issues:

There are issues with the Fire Opal Red/Mars Red paintwork on the R172 and now, apparently, on the W212 Models, and getting MB to even look at the paintwork let alone get resprays approved and completed FOC, is problematic, owners can use our Draft Email ‘Paintwork’ claims paperwork, to make the claim through MBCS UK and the MB Dealerships (Bodywork), contact me if you are having issues with the paintwork on Fire Opal Red/Mars Red R172’s or the W212 models. So far, we have had 10 owners who have contacted me, we have been successful so far on 4 occasions – Ongoing!

R231 Models (New Model)

In last month’s report, I informed the groups that I was contacted by the owner of 2013 SL350 with 60k on the clock they bought it 5 weeks after it had been MOT’d and the subframe has collapsed, I feel that it is important to get the information out there that this Model is also susceptible to collapse, to warn owners.
After the dealership sent the report to MB in Germany, I can report that the replacement of the subframe has been approved by MB and, that it has now been replaced FOC. I have had a look on various MB Forum worldwide, and the subframe corrosion on the R231 appears to be quite a common issue, I have also posted an Introductory Message, warning owners of the subframe corrosion/collapsing issues on the R231 BenzWorld pages, and, on the Owners Club Facebook page, as we also need to keep an eye on this model within the Owners Club/BenzWorld Forum!

X204 Model (New Model)

I have been approached by the owner of a 2010 GLK with a rotten rear subframe, the claim process has been started, although the X204 isn’t specifically listed on the SSD, it is however based on the W204 floor-pan. The subframe has been replaced FOC by MB .

W176 Model (New Model)

Just had one report from an owner of a W176 (A-Class) that their subframe has been reported to be in an unsafe condition due to serious corrosion – a modified Draft email has been sent to the owner to send to Germany – awaiting feedback. I will keep owners updated.

W204, W218, W203, W212, W219 and C207 Models:

In the last 13 months, we have been working with, some 349 owners of W204/W218/W203/W212/W219/C207 (C-Class & E-Class), most, have approached me directly, 307 of them, through the ‘BenzWorld’ Forum Site. Owners are from the UK and across Europe, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, and still owners from all across the USA.
We have had 59 owners of these models whose subframes have collapsed whilst their cars were being driven, some as new as 2014/15 we have had 7 subframes 5x W204, 1x W212 and 1x W218 in the UK that have been passed as serviceable by MB Dealerships and, 3 subframes that have been welded.

Of the 349 owners of W204/W218/W203/W212/C207 Models worked with, we have had some success with subframe replacements; of the 99 subframes (87x W204, 6x W218, 5x W212 and 1x W203), in the UK and Europe, 106 have been inspected to date, MB have replaced or agreed to replace 99 subframes, FOC. 4 of which had been welded. Of the 99 replaced FOC. Information from respondents have reported that: 5 have and 32 have not received receipts/invoices listing the subframe replacement.
The vehicles currently being worked with, are mainly, W204’s & W218’s – 2010- 2014, the W212 – some of these models were built as late as 2015 with mileages as little as 40k which have collapses, and the W203’s built from 2003 onwards. We did have dealerships in the USA suggesting that owners ‘Scrap’ 2011 – 2015 C & E-Class models because of the subframes corrosion – not a good advert for Mercedes Benz in the USA that owners should scrap them after between 8 - 11 years!!!
We are currently working with 99, USA Owners of SLK & C&E-Class models.
There were serious issues with MBUSA, and I had to provide substantially more information to US owners, this additional information was needed when owners were dealing with US Dealerships and with MBUSA. The problems in the USA have now been addressed, with the issuance of an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ I will keep members updated with progress on the R172, W204, W218, W203 and W212, etc. models, in the USA as claims – new and retrospective - Progressing.

Bubbling and Lifting paint/Lacquer - ‘Fire Opal Red’ Paint on R172 & W212 Models

I have been helping 9x R172 and 1x W212 owners who have bubbling/peeling of their ‘Opal Red’ paintwork – there have been issues with Dealerships and MBCS UK refusing to examine vehicles with this paint problem – but, I have put together a Draft email and information sheet to get Dealerships to examine the paintwork on affected vehicles, we have had another success and an owner has succeeded in getting their bodywork examined and, MB agreed to a full respray the vehicle FOC providing that the paintwork is original, the car has now been resprayed FOC by MB. Should anyone have this problem with their paintwork, and require an information sheet, please contact me.

General Information:
As some of you know I have been working with Andrew Everett from Car Mechanics Magazine, re: ‘Project Mercedes’ which was undertaken on an R171, by the Magazine (Re: The subframe Issues). They used our Claim paperwork and had their subframe replaced FOC and the Club and I both got a mention in the article as leading a crusade to support owners with corroded and collapsed subframe issues.

There is also an Article, published in the ‘Gebrauchtwagen’ Motoring Magazine in Germany, that suggested that MB are going to undertake the replacement of corroded subframes FOC, on Models that have, what MB term – ‘multi-link rear suspension’, these would include the majority of models listed on the MB Service Supplement Document regarding rear subframes: S135.00-P-0009A Service Information: Supplement to notes in maintenance documents on rear axle. Issued 05-11-2018”, which includes the R171, the main stipulations within the Article being, that; “the subframes should be inspected and their replacement undertaken, in MB Dealerships

I received a message from one of the Administrators on BenzWorld Forum, which said; “Hello Dave, just a message to thank you for supporting our members that have that rear sub-frame issue, it's very kind of you to go to so much trouble. I've read many of the posts from concerned members who have that sub-frame issue, and it has been a great relief that I can now refer them to you. Are Mercedes-Benz now prepared to address this issue and effect repairs FOC, or do you have to fight each claim on an individual basis? Once again, very many thanks, your help is much appreciated. Very best wishes, James." Which shows that what we are doing is appreciated beyond the bounds of the Club.
I am still involved in a 4-way conversation with the Law Firms in the USA who are compiling a 'Class Action' against MB over in the US during which we discussed how the information I have compile dover the past 2 year may assist them in compiling their case. They seemed a little surprised when they asked how many owners I was working with and I told them with the main groups of SLK and C & E-Class owners that I am working with over 1000 currently and the numbers continue to grow!
As I identified in my last report, “Regarding the FOC subframe replacement of subframes by MB; that we needed to identify the timescales involved; if it applies to ALL Models that have multi-link suspension; All the models listed in the Article; and, if the FOC subframe replacements, apply worldwide?” I can also report that we are having success in Europe with the FOC replacement of a rear subframe and no additional charges, for an owner in Cyprus which is excellent news – this is added to the owners in Spain and the ones in the USA and apparently the Extended Warranty Notice looks like it also applies to Canada (Clarified).

The ‘6 Month Ownership Rule’

This 6-month ownership issue is something that has only cropped up in the last couple of weeks - I am not sure if it is the Dealerships or MB that are saying this? If owners come up against this issue, contact me for an information sheet. dave@castellni.co.uk .
Only a few dealerships seem to be using it so, I am not certain if it Is something that MB Germany have brought in or, whether it is something that some dealerships have unilaterally brought in?
My MB Dealership Manager contacts haven’t heard anything about it, as yet, so they aren’t running with this currently.
I can understand why the likes of MB would like to bring this is in, but, my personal views, for what they are worth, are that; MB had the original subframes produced by a contractor and they weren’t properly protected inside against corrosion, which has allowed them to rot from the inside - out!
As such, MB are, and have been, replacing them FOC for owners of affected vehicles.
The timescale of ownership has not affected the subframe corrosion and, as such, whoever applies for the FOC replacement, should be of no consequence as far as the replacement is concerned!
The only person that will have lost out on this transaction, is the previous owner, not MB, as, if the previous owner has known about the FOC replacement of the subframes, they would/could have contacted MB to get it replaced FOC, which would be the same, cost-wise, to MB, as the new owner having it replaced.
This is the logical argument I would use if I were in the position of one of the owners who has just purchased the car and finds that is requires a subframe replacement!

Direct contact with Senior Management in Daimler, Mercedes-Benz Car AG in Germany.

I have contacted Senior management in Germany with a possible view to working directly with them with regard to providing information to owners in the Owners Club and on BenzWorld to help reduce the level of contact with owners who effectively come through me initially – The Board have decided that they want to be contacted by Owners directly, as they want to be able to act directly on owners feedback. Dave.

I am also working directly, with ‘Admins’ across the ‘BenzWorld Forum’ have posted a substantial amount of information regarding the various issues MB owners are experiencing and are now actively promoting what we are doing to support MB Owners with the subframe and other issues.

‘Extended Warranty Notice’ EWN (MBUSA and MB Canada)

As I stated in previous monthly Report, Mercedes-Benz have, after some 8 months of pressurising them, MB have now issued an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’, through MBUSA and now, MB Canada, stating that they will now replace the corroded subframes FOC on ALL affected MB Models in the USA and Canada, and, that owners who have paid to have their subframes replaced, we are now able to make Retrospective Claims for owners to be reimbursed. It currently appears that these reimbursements include owners who, through MBUSA’s indifference/intransichance, and/or the Dealerships attitude towards them, have had their subframes replaced by Third Party Garages – I am, as expected, receiving posts from some MB owners in the USA and Canada, who are trying to claim retrospective refunds as identified in the Extended Warranty Notice, owners are complaining that the amounts that MBUSA/MB Canada, Dealerships will refund, nowhere near cover their actual costs!! I do have an issue with one owner in Canada who took the information from an MB Canada Dealership literally and scrapped their car. I am in discussion with this owner and with the Law Firms to see if there is any way to make a claim?
I still don’t understand why MB can’t just admit they got it wrong and do the thing properly? As I felt this may be the situation, I had already put together a draft email for owners to use to press MBUSA and MB-Germany to pay the full costs - parts and labour, as the behaviour of the US Dealerships was appalling – Dealership suggesting owner scrap 2014-15 C&E-Class models as they would not be cost-effective to replace the subframes on!! Effectively forcing owners to have the subframes replace elsewhere!! I am hearing from some US/Canadian Owners that they are now receiving retrospective refunds for their self-funded subframe replacements.
It is interesting that MBUSA and MB Canada owners are having the same sort of issues we are, with regard to the replacement of the Front to Rear brake pipes, with timescales and costs!! Something that has cropped up in both the UK, the USA and Canada is that owners are turning up to pick up their cars after subframe changes and are finding that they have numerous fault code, EML lights on, etc. that weren’t on when they dropped the cars off and the dealers are saying that it is nothing to do with them and wanting to charge for fault finding? One owner took their back several times and each time it came out with a different fault which when they took it back the dealership wanted to charge again for the diagnostics – something for owners to be aware of when collecting their car after subframe replacements!! (This is still a little challenging, currently)
Claims under the Extended Warranty Notice: In the USA and Canada, we have had; 8 ‘new claim’ subframes replaced, and 6 Retrospective Refunds that have been repaid to owners so far.
I have rewritten the US version of the Retrospective Claims Paperwork, to take onto account, the current situation, and I am still working with owners in the USA and Canada, clarifying the retrospective claim process with MBUSA. Initial feedback from US owners is, that MBUSA have been contacted by owners, some of whom have received full refunds whilst others have been offered amounts well below what they were claiming – this has been challenged and will hopefully result in full refunds from MB in the near future.
I was looking if there would be any benefit to owners in the UK/Europe, if we were to push MB in Germany into issuing a similar ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ (EWN) to cover the claims in the UK and Europe, if they were to issue a Notice to cover the UK/Europe, it may have detrimental effect on the timescale that MB will support the replacements of subframes (MB have limited the support time in the USA/Canada, by extending the Warranty Period from 5 to 20 years and, withdrawn any/all mileage limits to ‘unlimited mileage’), I have decided to leave things as they stand, with MB replacing the subframes FOC at the moment, as this ‘EWN’ is time-limited (to 20 years), I feel that there would be no advantage to pursue any change at this time, as some of our models are pushing 19 years atm but, I will continue to review this!

It is good that MB have issued this ‘EWN in the USA and Canada which allows owners, to get the same sort of service that we have enjoyed over here in the UK and Europe? PLEASE NOTE: This Extended Warranty Notice ONLY applies to owners and vehicles in the USA/Canada. Although, I have been in contact with owners in Canada and found out that the EWN also applies to owners in Canada, there is a question about retrospective reimbursement for owners in Canada, who had paid for their own subframe replacement? I am reviewing this currently as MB do reimburse owners for this in the USA?
There are worries from owners in the UK/European group, that the likely additional subframe needs through the increased number needed in the USA and Canada (Potentially 10’s or even 100’s of thousands of subframes) will affect the supply of subframes to be available to the UK and Europe, this is a concern, but, I feel that MB might find it more cost effective (shipping costs, timescales, etc.) to produce the subframes in the USA,? We will have to see what happens, I don’t really, foresee issues with this, but we shall see. I will now be able to, more easily, manage the support that I can provide to owners across the UK/Europe, USA, Canada, Australia, and Africa and keep things moving.

I have been contacted by a helpful MB Service Manager, at one of the dealerships on my ‘Good List’ who has provided me with information about some of the issues we are experiencing currently – subframe delays, timescales, job-times, Goodwill Warranty, etc. This contact has provided information that the ‘lead-time’ on subframes is approximately 2 – 3 weeks currently which has been very helpful with our current and future claims also, one of our owners had received an email from Germany stating that MB had sent out a ‘How To’ Guide, to all their dealerships regarding the replacement of subframes. I questioned this with my MB Dealership Manager Contacts, who have checked, and they have informed me that they hadn’t received anything, and they checked all the information regarding subframe replacement and there has been no ‘How To’ Guide, received by their dealerships! This will help us, directly and indirectly, with some additional cost issues we are currently experiencing with MBUK/Europe and MBUSA.

As you will remember, I had been approached by an owner in Germany, who is having issues getting their subframe replaced on their R171. I was under the impression that MB in Germany were, effectively, replacing them as a matter of course, I can report that the subframe has been replaced FOC by MB in Germany.
I have been sorting out an issue with Customer Services’ in Spain, France, Sweden and Romania, where Dealerships were trying to charge the owner to fit the new subframe, we took the issue to Senior Management in Germany, and it was resolved by them, and the Dealerships in Spain and France fitted the new subframe FOC, we are waiting for a reply from the owners in Romania, regarding the response from their dealerships. Ongoing.

Since I, and more recently, the BenzWorld Admin Team, placed Posts on MB Subframe Corrosion on the BenzWorld, Forum, there have been:

33000* Views of the R171 Rear Subframe Post, resulting in 181 direct contacts from owners since 2021,

57000* Views of the W204/W218/C&W207/W214, Rear Subframe Post, resulting in 304 direct contacts from these owners in the last 13 months,

5000* Views of the W203 Rear Subframe Post, in the 13 months it has been posted, there have now been 3 direct contacts from owners to date.

3000* Views of the W212 Rear Subframe Post, in the 13 months it has been up, there have been 20 contacts from owners to date.

1000* Views of the NEW R172 Polycarbonate Roof, Water Ingress/Paint/ Subframes post, in the last 4 months.

In-light of the email about a 2013, SL350 subframe collapsing due to corrosion, just 10 weeks after an MOT – Currently - 1 (BW) contact and, one subframe collapse. FOC replacement has been completed by MB.

* Approx. Numbers recorded by BenzWorld
NOTE: Since the last monthly report, BenzWorld Admins have been in contact with me and, they have now posted information on the various issues I cover, in the various Model (Chassis) sections on their sites, which will inform more owners of the safety and other issues and will enable more affected owners to be able to contact me for help and advice.

Dave Evans
dave@castellni.co.uk

 

That is awesome Dave.
While what I own is not affected by these issues what you have done and continue to do is
absolutely stupendous. There is no doubt that the people you work with and will work with
are extremely appreciative.
Thank you Dave !!

 

That is awesome Dave.
While what I own is not affected by these issues what you have done and continue to do is
absolutely stupendous. There is no doubt that the people you work with and will work with
are extremely appreciative.
Thank you Dave !!

Hi Noodles, the main reason I do this is to keep owners safe. that is the most important thing, the other stuff I do, is support owners to get things done under the Goodwill Warranty that has been caused by something that MB has or hasn't done correctly! It also keeps my mind active in retirement Just glad to help owners Dave

 

‘Subframe Corner’ Monthly Update for, SLK Owners Club Facebook and BenzWorld Forum Pages - 30/09/2023.

Hi folks, yes, it’s that time again, below is the latest monthly ‘Recorded Data’ Update, covering the period from March 2021 to 30 September 2023.
This report is mainly on the SLK R171, but also on other MB Models, regarding the rear subframe corrosion situation, keeping you informed of owners’ progress, successes, and other related rear subframe issues. There are also other issues with MB vehicles that we have also started to work with owners to challenge MB about.

R171 Model

We have now been contacted by 935 - R171 Owners in total (inc, C209 and R231 models) and, are working with 350+ of them. 187 of these owners have come through BenzWorld/MBOC, most are from the UK and Northern Ireland but, we are still working with owners in Europe (Republic of Ireland, Isle of Man, Isle of Whight, Guernsey, Poland, Holland, France, Spain, Norway, Netherlands, Sweden, Bulgaria, Belarus, Germany, Cyprus, Romania) also Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Africa, the Middle East and still increasing numbers of owners from the USA (on ALL affected MB Models) some US Owners are still asking for guidance with regard to the new ‘Extended Warranty Notice’.

With the R171, we have had 323 subframes replaced or authorised for replacement FOC (this includes 26 members whose vehicles are currently in Dealerships having subframes changed or are waiting for parts atm).

The latest count shows that we have had 44 - R171 subframes that have collapsed, and 1x also had a hub casting collapse, these collapses occurred whilst the cars were being driven, fortunately, there have been no serious injuries and no fatalities in our Owners Club. I have made a FoI Request to Nottingham Police, requested information on the accident video posted on the Club Facebook page of a post from, ‘Mail On-line’ to see if the SLK involved, was inspected at the time, regarding the condition of the subframe?

Currently, 53 of the subframes that have been inspected, have been passed as ‘Serviceable’, by MB Dealerships. As a matter of course, we have suggested that the owners have their subframes inspected by an Independent Garage to ensure that they are safe. This is advised, after one of our owners’ subframe collapsed less than 2 months after being passed as serviceable by MB.
We have also had 34 owners out of a total of 40, who have had their subframes changed FOC, despite them having been welded and, we have 6 owners with welded subframes, waiting for theirs to be inspected. Worryingly, we have recently had an issue with some, initially, ‘Good List’ Dealerships making their own decisions as to whether the welded subframes should be replaced, this takes the decision away from, MBCS UK who are not given the option to approve the replacement of welded subframes, on the previous report, it can be seen that this seemed to have been successfully challenged and was over-turned by Management in Germany. Unfortunately, things have not returned to the way it was in the past. Dealerships should not be making the decisions; this is up to MBCS UK!! This issue has been brought to the attention of senior management in MB Germany! I have produced a draft email for owners to personalise and send, along with their Video recording, initially, to MBCS UK and if they don’t act, we can use a similar email to escalate the issue to the Directors and CEO of Mercedes Benz Cars AG in Germany.
There is still a lack of consistency in these decisions. A couple of owners were left only with the option, to contact MB senior management in Germany which they did, and Senior Management in Germany investigated the issues and overturned the Dealership and MBUK decisions.
I have had some dealerships moved to the ‘To Avoid’ List, and will no longer promote this dealership with owners, and, moved some Dealerships to the ‘Good List’ and will actively promote these dealerships with owners; Again, Both lists are kept under constant review!
Some Dealerships (now on my ‘To Avoid’ List) are still demanding that owners signed an agreement, that the owner will agree to pay costs, up to £1800, for “components they ‘may’ have to replace”, in advance of work starting (owners SHOULD NOT agree to this!! Contact me if this is requested!! It is important that owners challenge this, I will send them information that should help. I have also suggested that, if this doesn’t work, that they should take their cars to another dealership, from a different Dealership Group. There has been some movement from these initial challenges, dealerships undertake the subframe replacement and are, generally, changing their minds about pursuing or at least substantially, reducing these charges – as you know, have new contact information for senior MB Management in Daimler/Mercedes-Benz AG, in Germany, which we will continue to use, if/when we escalate any complaints; Some other dealership issues/complaints are still being investigated and will be reported back on, in due course!

We still, occasionally, have some owners who are receiving the initial reply from MBCS UK, saying that owners should have a FMBSH, and that they should take the car to an MB Dealership for a Safety Check! NOTE: We still only have ONE owner out of the 323 who have had their subframes replaced FOC, with anything like a FMBSH.

There is still a reluctance, on the part of MB Dealerships, to detail the replacement of the rear subframe on receipts/invoices, for Owners’ Service History, as under a 1/6 are being recorded on owners’ receipts/invoices. Currently, of the owners who have responded; 23 SLK owners have a ‘subframe replaced’ receipt and, 151 have not.

There is still a concern, that some MB Dealerships are still trying to coerce owners to pay for parts which should be covered by the Warranty, i.e., nuts, bolts, brackets, Mountings, etc. and some of the prices quoted, do appear excessive for what is identified (Up to £1200)!! Again, we challenge this behaviour! We have had one dealership wanting to charge £2300 to replace brake pipes and fuel pipe stating that it will take 13 hours?? I spoke to a MB Dealership Workshop Manager who says that there isn’t a ‘set’ time for the brake-pipe replacement but, in their dealership, they charge around 2 - 3 hours labour if the brake-pipes are replaced with a subframe replacement.
It is good to see, that MB are still undertaking subframe replacements and, the current turn-around time on authorisation does, in general, seem to be substantially quicker, unfortunately dealerships are saying that there is a shortage of subframes in the UK at the moment, which does slow the actual turn-round time and, some Dealerships are currently saying that it takes 3 months or longer, we are challenging this both Locally (MBCS UK) and with the Directors and CEO of D/MB AG in Germany. My Dealership Service Manager contacts inform me that the lead time on subframes is about 2 – 3 weeks.
I keep getting requests from owners questioning timescales for the supply of new subframes – mainly R171’s, but including C & E-Class – I have produced a draft email for owners to send to MBCS UK to see if they can help provide some sort of timescale? I have also drafted an email for owners to send to the Directors and CEO on D/MB AG in Germany, I have heard from an owner who used the draft email to contact the Directors and CEO of Daimler Mercedes-Benz AG in Germany, about timescales for delivery – the CEO was not happy with the reasons given for the delays, and contacted the dealership, the subframe was delivered within a few days and fitted, there were no additional charges! Success!
There had been issues importing new subframes into Germany, from wherever MB were importing them?
I have heard from an owner, who has been informed by a dealership, that MB have changed their subframe manufacturer and, the new subframes are supposed to be rust protected inside, we will have to see? In any case, I would treat the inside with Waxoyl from new just in case? But it is good to hear that subframes are being imported again, we will have to see how things progress. According to my MB Contact there is about a 2 – 3 week lead time on subframes, currently.
Unfortunately, I have received information that an owner was informed that a dealership had refused to accept receipt of 5 NEW subframes as they had heavy corrosion on them, upon delivery, with this in mind I have suggested that owners check the condition of their new subframes upon collection of the car after replacement and, suggested that owners who have had their subframes replaced already, to check the subframes as soon as possible, especially, as only about 1/6 of owners are getting a receipt showing the subframe replacement (23 did and 148 did not) I have also suggested that owners contact MB and check that the replacement of their subframe is recorded on the MB Vehicle Database/Service History to make sure that they are recorded just in case there are any corrosion issues in future.

The Owners Club and I have had a mention in May 2022 Issue of the Car Mechanics Magazine regarding our crusade for FOC subframe replacements as we helped them get the subframe replaced FOC by MB on their ‘Project Mercedes’ rebuild of an R171! (a copy of the article has been published on the Club Facebook Pages a copy is available, via email, upon request) this will help add weight to the information we send out regarding the Subframe replacement issues to MB Dealerships, MBCS UK.

Subframes - Retrospective Reimbursement Claims.

This is progressing slowly, I have sent information to owners, most in the USA, and I will continue to send out information sheets and Draft emails, for all owners to personalise and send-off to D/MB AG in Germany; I will continue to keep owners informed as things progress.
As I said in the last monthly report, I heard from owners who had to pay for their own subframe replacements, and we have had 3 UK owners who have been reimbursed for their subframes and, in one case, some other components that they were charged for, I am sure that this will continue to be successful for owners who have been out of pocket.
This is less of an issue in the USA, I have produced a Retrospective Reimbursement Claim Form for the USA as we have owners in the US that are in the same situation, this is now needed; as MB have now issued an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ which they have issued through MBUSA, allowing all US dealerships to now replace the subframe FOC and, to allow owners to claim, retrospectively, for replacements undertaken by third party garages on all affected models. Owners just need to produce all their receipts, as our owners over here do, as proof.

Should owners have any questions or issues? I am available to be contacted through the Club Facebook Page, BenzWorld and directly by email, should owners want to discuss individual; Cases/Issues/Problems/Good Dealerships/Dealerships to Avoid, etc. and, if they should require any Moral Support through the process.

I hope this Data informs and encourages other owners to look at the current situation, regarding R171 rear subframe replacements and, prompt them to either, check or, get their subframes checked, for safety’s sake? We have now had a total of 102 subframes collapse, across the MB Range, this is just with owners that I have been working with, through the Owners Club and BenzWorld, and all have collapsed whilst the cars were being driven!

Other Mercedes Benz Models and Other Issues.

R170 Models

I’ve been approached by 7x R170 owners, I’ve put together an information sheet, even though they are not listed on the SSD, it’s worth trying under the Goodwill Warranty. So far 6 owners have now taken this up – one owner is having their claim reviewed by MB in Germany currently. Although we have had no success as yet, we will continue to try; I will keep owners updated as/if things progress.

R172 Models:

Don’t forget that there could also be issues with corrosion on R172 rear subframes, I have compiled an Information Sheet for the R172!
To date, we have 42 owners who have requested the Information Sheet for the R172 rear subframes. We have had 2 Subframe collapse, and 2 subframe replaced so far and we have had 3 subframe inspected, that were passed as Serviceable!! An owner recently contacted me that they have had their R172 subframe collapse; This has now been replaced, FOC by MB. We now need to keep an eye on other R172 models as this is now becoming a more common issue!

SLK R172 & R231 – Polycarbonate Laminated Roof Issues: inc. Glass Roof leaks**

I have received a copy of the MB Notice: G177.30-P-055700 Polycarbonate roof – water ingress issues – Version 3, Issued 10/16/2013. This describes the issues with the polycarbonate roof delamination – with photos – with test and repair information. This shows that there must have been issues with the polycarbonate roof as long ago as 2013 when this Notice was issued. I have noted that, in the repair section there are no timescales for the repair set down for the various actions. This document was printed off on the 10/03/2023 so no amendments have been made to this section, and it could be argued, that this could suggest that the repair may be covered under the Goodwill Warranty? We will have to see – I have been contacted by 52x R172 UK/European owners, and One R231 Owner, regarding their Roof, and the water ingress issues, to date. Since I posted this issue on the Club Facebook Page, we have had one owner who has had their leaking roof issue repaired FOC, this was undertaken by the Dealership who sold the vehicle – the dealership said that they were repairing the roof at their own expense - not through any specific Warranty (not even the MB Approved Used Car Warranty, which was still in effect on the vehicle?) Issues with these claims seem to be MBUK refusing to allow action to remedy the distorted and delaminated and leaking roof problem from going ahead, not necessarily the dealerships! – After having in-depth email discussions directly with Senior MB Management in Germany, they have come up with some proposals in the way owners could pursue their polycarbonate roof claims, I have produced an information sheet for the owners of affected vehicles, which reflect these new proposals: I will report back any feedback I receive from the affected owners, and keep members informed as things progress.
R172 Glass Roof Issues** -
I’ve have now been contacted by a few R172 owners whose Glass-Roofed R172 Models are suffering from water ingress issues, the issue could be down to seals, alignment or locking issues but in some cases it would appear to be due to the exterior roof edge trim panels either becoming delaminated from the glass roof panel and, we have had issues with these panels flying off in the past, whilst the vehicle was being driven; I have compiled a modified information sheet and a retrospective reimbursement information sheet to assist owners with potential and retrospective claims. Ongoing

SLK R172 and W212 Fire Opal Red and potentially, Mars Red Paintwork issues:

There are issues with the Fire Opal Red/Mars Red paintwork on the R172 and now, apparently, on the W212 Models, and getting MB to even look at the paintwork let alone get resprays approved and completed FOC, is problematic, owners can use our Draft Email ‘Paintwork’ claims paperwork, to make the claim through MBCS UK and the MB Dealerships (Bodywork), contact me if you are having issues with the paintwork on Fire Opal Red/Mars Red R172’s or the W212 models. So far, we have had 11 owners who have contacted me, we have been successful so far on 4 occasions – Ongoing!

R231 Models (New Model)

In last month’s report, I informed the groups that I was contacted by the owner of 2013 SL350 with 60k on the clock they bought it 5 weeks after it had been MOT’d and the subframe has collapsed, I feel that it is important to get the information out there that this Model is also susceptible to collapse, to warn owners and keep them safe.
After the dealership sent the report to MB in Germany, I can report that the replacement of the subframe has been approved by MB and, that it has now been replaced FOC. I have had a look on various MB Forum worldwide, and the subframe corrosion on the R231 appears to be quite a common issue, I have also posted an Introductory Message, warning owners of the subframe corrosion/collapsing issues on the R231 BenzWorld pages, and, on the Owners Club Facebook page, as we also need to keep an eye on this model within the Owners Club/BenzWorld Forum!

X204 Model (New Model)

I have been approached by the owner of a 2010 GLK with a rotten rear subframe, the claim process has been started, although the X204 isn’t specifically listed on the SSD, it is however based on the W204 floor-pan. The subframe has been replaced FOC by MB .

W176 Model (New Model)

Just had one report from an owner of a W176 (A-Class) that their subframe has been reported to be in an unsafe condition due to serious corrosion – a modified Draft email has been sent to the owner to send to Germany – awaiting feedback. I will keep owners updated.

W204, W218, W203, W212, W219, C209 and C207 Models:

In the last 15 months, we have been working with, some 368 owners of W204/W218/W203/W212/W219/C207/C209 (C-Class & E-Class), most, have approached me directly, 319 of them, through the ‘BenzWorld’ Forum Site. Owners are from the UK and across Europe, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, and still owners from all across the USA.
We have had 60 owners of these models whose subframes have collapsed whilst their cars were being driven, some as new as 2014/15 we have had 7 subframes 5x W204, 1x W212 and 1x W218 in the UK that have been passed as serviceable by MB Dealerships and, 3 subframes that have been welded.

Of the 368 owners of W204/W218/W203/W212/C207 Models worked with, we have had some success with subframe replacements; of the 103 subframes (91x W204, 6x W218, 5x W212 and 1x W203), in the UK and Europe, 110 have been inspected to date, MB have replaced or agreed to replace 103 subframes, FOC. 4 of which had been welded. Of the 103 replaced FOC. Information from respondents have reported that: 5 have and 38 have not received receipts/invoices listing the subframe replacement.
The vehicles currently being worked with, are mainly, W204’s & W218’s – 2010- 2014, the W212 – some of these models were built as late as 2015 with mileages as little as 40k which have collapses, and the W203’s built from 2003 onwards. We did have dealerships in the USA suggesting that owners ‘Scrap’ 2011 – 2015 C & E-Class models because of the subframes corrosion – not a good advert for Mercedes Benz in the USA that owners should scrap them after between 8 - 11 years!!!
We are currently working with 105, USA/Canadian Owners of SLK & C&E-Class models.
There were serious issues with MBUSA/MB Canada, and I had to provide substantially more information to US owners, this additional information was needed when owners were dealing with US Dealerships and with MBUSA. The problems in the USA have now been addressed, with the issuance of an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ on the R172, W204, W218, W203 and W212, etc. models, in the USA and Canada, all claims – new and retrospective, are currently progressing: I will keep owners/members updated with progress

Bubbling and Lifting paint/Lacquer - ‘Fire Opal Red’ Paint on R172 & W212 Models

I have been helping 10x R172 and 1x W212 owners who have bubbling/peeling of their ‘Opal Red’ paintwork – there have been issues with Dealerships and MBCS UK refusing to examine vehicles with this paint problem – but, I have put together a Draft email and information sheet to get Dealerships to examine the paintwork on affected vehicles, we have had another success and an owner has succeeded in getting their bodywork examined and, MB agreed to a full respray the vehicle FOC providing that the paintwork is original, the car has now been resprayed FOC by MB. Should anyone have this problem with their paintwork, and require an information sheet, please contact me.

General Information:
As some of you know I have been working with Andrew Everett from Car Mechanics Magazine, re: ‘Project Mercedes’ which was undertaken on an R171, by the Magazine (Re: The subframe Issues). They used our Claim paperwork and had their subframe replaced FOC and the Club and I both got a mention in the article as leading a crusade to support owners with corroded and collapsed subframe issues.

There is also an Article, published in the ‘Gebrauchtwagen’ Motoring Magazine in Germany, that suggested that MB are going to undertake the replacement of corroded subframes FOC, on Models that have, what MB term – ‘multi-link rear suspension’, these would include the majority of models listed on the MB Service Supplement Document regarding rear subframes: S135.00-P-0009A Service Information: Supplement to notes in maintenance documents on rear axle. Issued 05-11-2018”, which includes the R171, the main stipulations within the Article being, that; “the subframes should be inspected and their replacement undertaken, in MB Dealerships

I received a message from one of the Administrators on BenzWorld Forum, which said; “Hello Dave, just a message to thank you for supporting our members that have that rear sub-frame issue, it's very kind of you to go to so much trouble. I've read many of the posts from concerned members who have that sub-frame issue, and it has been a great relief that I can now refer them to you. Are Mercedes-Benz now prepared to address this issue and effect repairs FOC, or do you have to fight each claim on an individual basis? Once again, very many thanks, your help is much appreciated. Very best wishes, James." Which shows that what we are doing is appreciated beyond the bounds of the Club.
I am still involved in a 4-way conversation with the Law Firms in the USA who are compiling a 'Class Action' against MB over in the US during which we discussed how the information I have compile dover the past 2 year may assist them in compiling their case. They seemed a little surprised when they asked how many owners I was working with and I told them with the main groups of SLK and C & E-Class owners that I am working with over 1000 currently and the numbers continue to grow!
As I identified in my last report, “Regarding the FOC subframe replacement of subframes by MB; that we needed to identify the timescales involved; if it applies to ALL Models that have multi-link suspension; All the models listed in the Article; and, if the FOC subframe replacements, apply worldwide?” I can also report that we are having success in Europe with the FOC replacement of a rear subframe and no additional charges, for an owner in Cyprus which is excellent news – this is added to the owners in Spain and the ones in the USA and apparently the Extended Warranty Notice looks like it also applies to Canada (Clarified).

The ‘6 Month Ownership Rule’

This 6-month ownership issue is something that has only cropped up in the last couple of weeks - I am not sure if it is the Dealerships or MB that are saying this? If owners come up against this issue, contact me for an information sheet. dave@castellni.co.uk .
Only a few dealerships seem to be using it, so, I am not certain if it Is something that MB Germany have brought in or, whether it is something that some dealerships have unilaterally brought in?
My MB Dealership Manager contacts haven’t heard anything about it, as yet, so they aren’t running with this currently.
I can understand why the likes of MB would like to bring this is in, but, my personal views, for what they are worth, are that; MB had the original subframes produced by a contractor and they weren’t properly protected inside against corrosion, which has allowed them to rot from the inside - out!
As such, MB are, and have been, replacing them FOC for owners of affected vehicles.
The timescale of ownership has not affected the subframe corrosion and, as such, whoever applies for the FOC replacement, should be of no consequence as far as the replacement is concerned!
The only person that will have lost out on this transaction, is the previous owner, not MB, as, if the previous owner has known about the FOC replacement of the subframes, they would/could have contacted MB to get it replaced FOC, which would be the same, cost-wise, to MB, as the new owner having it replaced.
This is the logical argument I would use if I were in the position of one of the owners who has just purchased the car and finds that is requires a subframe replacement!

Direct contact with Senior Management in Daimler, Mercedes-Benz Car AG in Germany.

I have contacted Senior management in Germany with a possible view to working directly with them with regard to providing information to owners in the Owners Club and on BenzWorld to help reduce the level of contact with owners who effectively come through me initially – The Board have decided that they want to be contacted by Owners directly, as they want to be able to act directly on owners feedback. Dave.

I am also working directly, with ‘Admins’ across the ‘BenzWorld Forum’ have posted a substantial amount of information regarding the various issues MB owners are experiencing and are now actively promoting what we are doing to support MB Owners with the subframe and other issues.


‘Extended Warranty Notice’ EWN (MBUSA and MB Canada)

As I stated in previous monthly Report, Mercedes-Benz have, after some 8 months of pressurising them, MB have now issued an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’, through MBUSA and now, MB Canada, stating that they will now replace the corroded subframes FOC on ALL affected MB Models in the USA and Canada, and, that owners who have paid to have their subframes replaced, we are now able to make Retrospective Claims for owners to be reimbursed. It currently appears that these reimbursements include owners who, through MBUSA’s indifference/intransichance, and/or the Dealerships attitude towards them, have had their subframes replaced by Third Party Garages – I am, as expected, receiving posts from some MB owners in the USA and Canada, who are trying to claim retrospective refunds as identified in the Extended Warranty Notice, owners are complaining that the amounts that MBUSA/MB Canada, Dealerships will refund, nowhere near cover their actual costs!! I do have an issue with one owner in Canada who took the information from an MB Canada Dealership literally and scrapped their car. I am in discussion with this owner and with the Law Firms to see if there is any way to make a claim?
I still don’t understand why MB can’t just admit they got it wrong and do the thing properly? As I felt this may be the situation, I had already put together a draft email for owners to use to press MBUSA and MB-Germany to pay the full costs - parts and labour, as the behaviour of the US Dealerships was appalling – Dealership suggesting owner scrap 2014-15 C&E-Class models as they would not be cost-effective to replace the subframes on!! Effectively forcing owners to have the subframes replace elsewhere!! I am hearing from some US/Canadian Owners that they are now receiving retrospective refunds for their self-funded subframe replacements.
It is interesting that MBUSA and MB Canada owners are having the same sort of issues we are, with regard to the replacement of the Front to Rear brake pipes, with timescales and costs!! Something that has cropped up in both the UK, the USA and Canada is that owners are turning up to pick up their cars after subframe changes and are finding that they have numerous fault code, EML lights on, etc. that weren’t on when they dropped the cars off and the dealers are saying that it is nothing to do with them and wanting to charge for fault finding? One owner took their back several times and each time it came out with a different fault which when they took it back the dealership wanted to charge again for the diagnostics – something for owners to be aware of when collecting their car after subframe replacements!! (This is still a little challenging, currently)
Claims under the Extended Warranty Notice: In the USA and Canada, we have had; 8 ‘new claim’ subframes replaced, and 6 Retrospective Refunds that have been repaid to owners so far.
I have rewritten the US version of the Retrospective Claims Paperwork, to take onto account, the current situation, and I am still working with owners in the USA and Canada, clarifying the retrospective claim process with MBUSA. Initial feedback from US owners is, that MBUSA have been contacted by owners, some of whom have received full refunds whilst others have been offered amounts well below what they were claiming – this has been challenged and will hopefully result in full refunds from MB in the near future.
I was looking if there would be any benefit to owners in the UK/Europe, if we were to push MB in Germany into issuing a similar ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ (EWN) to cover the claims in the UK and Europe, if they were to issue a Notice to cover the UK/Europe, it may have detrimental effect on the timescale that MB will support the replacements of subframes (MB have limited the support time in the USA/Canada, by extending the Warranty Period from 5 to 20 years and, withdrawn any/all mileage limits to ‘unlimited mileage’), I have decided to leave things as they stand, with MB replacing the subframes FOC at the moment, as this ‘EWN’ is time-limited (to 20 years), I feel that there would be no advantage to pursue any change at this time, as some of our models are pushing 19 years atm but, I will continue to review this!

It is good that MB have issued this ‘EWN in the USA and Canada which allows owners, to get the same sort of service that we have enjoyed over here in the UK and Europe? PLEASE NOTE: This Extended Warranty Notice ONLY applies to owners and vehicles in the USA/Canada. Although, I have been in contact with owners in Canada and found out that the EWN also applies to owners in Canada, there is a question about retrospective reimbursement for owners in Canada, who had paid for their own subframe replacement? I am reviewing this currently as MB do reimburse owners for this in the USA?
There are worries from owners in the UK/European group, that the likely additional subframe needs through the increased number needed in the USA and Canada (Potentially 10’s or even 100’s of thousands of subframes) will affect the supply of subframes to be available to the UK and Europe, this is a concern, but, I feel that MB might find it more cost effective (shipping costs, timescales, etc.) to produce the subframes in the USA,? We will have to see what happens, I don’t really, foresee issues with this, but we shall see. I will now be able to, more easily, manage the support that I can provide to owners across the UK/Europe, USA, Canada, Australia, and Africa and keep things moving.

I have been contacted by a helpful MB Service Manager, at one of the dealerships on my ‘Good List’ who has provided me with information about some of the issues we are experiencing currently – subframe delays, timescales, job-times, Goodwill Warranty, etc. This contact has provided information that the ‘lead-time’ on subframes is approximately 2 – 3 weeks currently which has been very helpful with our current and future claims also, one of our owners had received an email from Germany stating that MB had sent out a ‘How To’ Guide, to all their dealerships regarding the replacement of subframes. I questioned this with my MB Dealership Manager Contacts, who have checked, and they have informed me that they hadn’t received anything, and they checked all the information regarding subframe replacement and there has been no ‘How To’ Guide, received by their dealerships! This will help us, directly and indirectly, with some additional cost issues we are currently experiencing with MBUK/Europe and MBUSA.

As you will remember, I had been approached by an owner in Germany, who is having issues getting their subframe replaced on their R171. I was under the impression that MB in Germany were, effectively, replacing them as a matter of course, I can report that the subframe has been replaced FOC by MB in Germany.
I have been sorting out an issue with Customer Services’ in Spain, France, Sweden and Romania, where Dealerships were trying to charge the owner to fit the new subframe, we took the issue to Senior Management in Germany, and it was resolved by them, and the Dealerships in Spain and France fitted the new subframe FOC, we are waiting for a reply from the owners in Romania, regarding the response from their dealerships. Ongoing.

Since I, and more recently, the BenzWorld Admin Team, placed Posts on MB Subframe Corrosion on the BenzWorld, Forum, there have been:

35000* Views of the R171/W231 Rear Subframe Post, resulting in 187 direct contacts from owners since 2021,

57000* Views of the W204/W218/C&W207/W214, Rear Subframe Post, resulting in 316 direct contacts from these owners in the last 15 months,

5000* Views of the W203 Rear Subframe Post, in the 15 months it has been posted, there have now been 3 direct contacts from owners to date.

38000* Views of the W212 Rear Subframe Post, in the 15 months it has been up, there have been 20 contacts from owners to date.

3000* Views of the NEW R172 Polycarbonate Roof, Water Ingress/Paint/ Subframes post, in the last 4 months.

In-light of the email about a 2013, SL350 subframe collapsing due to corrosion, just 12 weeks after an MOT – Currently - 1 (BW) contact and, one subframe collapse. FOC replacement has been completed by MB.

* Approx. Numbers recorded by BenzWorld

Dave Evans
dave@castellni.co.uk

 

‘Subframe Corner’ Monthly Update for, SLK Owners Club Facebook and BenzWorld Forum Pages - 30/11/2023.

Hi folks, yes, it’s that time again, below is the latest monthly ‘Recorded Data’ Update, covering the period from March 2021 to 30 November 2023.
This report is mainly on the SLK R171, but also on other MB Models, regarding the rear subframe corrosion situation, keeping you informed of owners’ progress, successes, and other related rear subframe issues. There are also other issues with MB vehicles that we have also started to work with owners to challenge MB about.

R171 Model

We have now been contacted by 971 - R171 Owners in total (inc. C209 and R231 models) and, are working with 350+ of them. 192 of these owners have come through BenzWorld/MBOC, most are from the UK and Northern Ireland but, we are still working with owners in Europe (Republic of Ireland, Isle of Man, Isle of Whight, Guernsey, Poland, Holland, France, Spain, Norway, Netherlands, Sweden, Bulgaria, Belarus, Germany, Cyprus, Romania,) also Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Africa, the Middle East and the USA (on ALL affected MB Models) some US Owners are still asking for guidance with regard to the new ‘Extended Warranty Notice’.

With the R171, we have had 339 subframes replaced or authorised for replacement FOC (this includes 28 owners whose vehicles are currently in Dealerships having subframes changed or are waiting for parts to arrive, atm).

The latest count shows that we have had 45 - R171 subframes that have collapsed, and 1x also had a hub casting collapse, these collapses occurred whilst the cars were being driven, fortunately, there have been no serious injuries and no fatalities in our Owners Club. I have made a FoI Request to Nottingham Police, requested information on the accident video posted on the Club Facebook page of a post from, ‘Mail On-line’ to see if the SLK involved, was inspected at the time, regarding the condition of the subframe?

Currently, 58 of the subframes that have been inspected, have been passed as ‘Serviceable’, by MB Dealerships. As a matter of course, we have suggested that the owners have their subframes inspected by an Independent Garage to ensure that they are safe. This is advised, after one of our owners’ subframes collapsed less than 2 weeks after being passed as serviceable by MB, and One whose subframe collapsed within a week of an MOT.
We have also had 46 owners out of a total of 52, who have had their subframes changed FOC, in spite of them having been welded and, we still have 6 owners with welded subframes, waiting for theirs to be inspected. Worryingly, we have recently had an issue with some, initially, ‘Good List’ Dealerships making their own decisions as to whether the welded subframes should be replaced, This takes the decision away from, MBCS UK who are not given the option to approve the replacement of welded subframes, on the previous report, it can be seen that this seemed to have been successfully challenged and was over-turned by Management in Germany. Unfortunately, things have not returned to the way it was in the past. Dealerships should not be making the decisions; this is up to MBCS UK!! This issue has been brought to the attention of senior management in MB Germany! I have produced a draft email for owners to personalise and send, along with their Video recording, initially, to MBCS UK and if they don’t act, we can use a similar email to escalate the issue to the Directors and CEO of Mercedes Benz Cars AG in Germany.
There is still a lack of consistency in these decisions. we have one owner who was told by a dealership that the car didn’t need an inspection as it has an MOT Failure Sheet? A couple of owners were left with only one option, to contact MB senior management in Germany which they did, and Senior Management in Germany investigated the issues and overturned the Dealership and MBUK decisions.
I have had some dealerships moved to the ‘To Avoid’ List, and will no longer promote these dealership with owners, and, have moved some Dealerships to the ‘Good List’ who will be actively promoted with owners; Again, Both lists are kept under constant review!
Some Dealerships (now on my ‘To Avoid’ List) are still demanding that owners signed an agreement, that the owner will agree to pay costs, up to £1800, for “components they ‘may’ have to replace”, in advance of work starting (owners SHOULD NOT agree to this!! Contact me if this is requested!! It is important that owners challenge this, I will send them information that should help. I have also suggested that, if this doesn’t work, the owners should take their cars to another dealership, from a different Dealership Group. There has been some movement from these initial challenges, dealerships undertake the subframe replacement and are, generally, changing their minds about pursuing or at least substantially, reducing these charges – as you know, have new contact information for senior MB Management in Daimler/Mercedes-Benz AG, in Germany, which we will continue to use, if/when we escalate any complaints; Some other dealership issues/complaints are still being investigated and will be reported back on, in due course!

We still, occasionally, have some owners who are receiving the initial reply from MBCS UK, saying that owners should have a FMBSH, and that they should take the car to an MB Dealership for a Safety Check! NOTE: We still only have ONE owner out of the 339 who have had their subframes replaced FOC, with anything like a FMBSH.

There is still a reluctance, on the part of MB Dealerships, to detail the replacement of the rear subframe on receipts/invoices, for Owners’ Service History, as under a 1/6 are being recorded on owners’ receipts/invoices. Currently, of the owners who have responded; 24 SLK owners have a ‘subframe replaced’ receipt and, 161 have not.

There is still a concern, that some MB Dealerships are still trying to coerce owners to pay for parts which should be covered by the Warranty, i.e., nuts, bolts, brackets, Mountings, etc. and some of the prices quoted, do appear excessive for what is identified (Up to £1200)!! Again, we challenge this behaviour! We have had one dealership wanting to charge £2800 to replace brake pipes and fuel pipe stating that it will take 13 hours?? I spoke to an MB Dealership Workshop Manager who says that there isn’t a ‘set’ time for the brake-pipe replacement but, in their dealership, they charge around 2 - 3 hours labour if the brake-pipes are replaced with a subframe replacement.
It is good to see, that MB are still undertaking subframe replacements and, the current turn-around time on authorisation does, in general, seem to be substantially quicker, unfortunately dealerships are saying that there is a shortage of subframes in the UK which does slow the actual turn-round time and, some Dealerships are currently saying that it takes 3 months or longer, we are challenging this both Locally (MBCS UK) and with the Directors and CEO of D/MB AG in Germany. My Dealership Service Manager contacts inform me that the lead time on subframes is about 2 – 3 weeks.
I keep getting requests from owners questioning timescales for the supply of new subframes – mainly R171’s, but including C & E-Class – I have produced a draft email for owners to send to MBCS UK to see if they can help provide some sort of timescale? I have also drafted an email for owners to send to the Directors and CEO on D/MB AG in Germany, I have heard from an owner who used the draft email to contact the Directors and CEO of Daimler Mercedes-Benz AG in Germany, about timescales for delivery – the CEO was not happy with the reasons given for the delays, and contacted the dealership, the subframe was delivered within a few days and fitted, there were no additional charges! Success!
There had been issues importing new subframes into Germany, from wherever MB were importing them?
I have heard from an owner, who has been informed by a dealership, that MB have changed their subframe manufacturer and, the new subframes are supposed to be rust protected inside, we will have to see? In any case, I would treat the inside with Waxoyl from new just in case? But it is good to hear that subframes are being imported again, we will have to see how things progress. According to my MB Contact there is about a 2 – 3 week lead time on subframes, currently.
Unfortunately, I have received information that an owner was informed that a dealership had refused to accept receipt of 5 NEW subframes as they had heavy corrosion on them, upon delivery, with this in mind I have suggested that owners check the condition of their new subframes upon collection of the car after replacement and, suggested that owners who have had their subframes replaced already, to check the subframes as soon as possible, especially, as mentioned before, only about 1/6 of owners are getting a receipt showing the subframe replacement (24 did and 161 did not) I have also suggested that owners contact MB and check that the replacement of their subframe is recorded on the MB Vehicle Database/Service History to make sure that they are recorded just in case there are any corrosion issues in future.

The Owners Club and I had a mention in May 2022 Issue of the Car Mechanics Magazine regarding our crusade for FOC subframe replacements as we helped them get the subframe replaced FOC by MB on their ‘Project Mercedes’ rebuild of an R171! (a copy of the article has been published on the Club Facebook Pages a copy is available, via email, upon request) this will help add weight to the information we send out regarding the Subframe replacement issues to MB Dealerships, MBCS UK.

Subframes - Retrospective Reimbursement Claims.

This is progressing slowly, I have sent information to owners, most in the USA, and I will continue to send out information sheets and Draft emails, for all owners to personalise and send-off to D/MB AG in Germany; I will continue to keep owners informed as things progress.
As I said in the last monthly report, I heard from owners who had to pay for their own subframe replacements, and we have had 3 UK owners who have been reimbursed for their subframes and, in one case, some other components that they were charged for, I am sure that this will continue to be successful for owners who have been out of pocket.
This is less of an issue in the USA and Canada, I have produced a Retrospective Reimbursement Claim Form for the US and Canada as we have owners in the US that are in the same situation; as MB have now issued an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ which they have issued through MBUSA, allowing all US/Canada dealerships to now replace the subframe FOC and, to more easily allow owners to claim, retrospectively, for replacements undertaken by third party garages on all affected models. Owners just need to produce all their receipts, as our owners over here do, as proof.

Should owners have any questions or issues? I am available to be contacted through the Club Facebook Page, BenzWorld and directly by email, should owners want to discuss individual; Cases/Issues/Problems/Good Dealerships/Dealerships to Avoid, etc. and, if they should require any Moral Support through the process.

I hope this Data informs and encourages other owners to look at the current situation, regarding R171 rear subframe replacements and, prompt them to either, check or, get their subframes checked, for safety’s sake? We have now had a total of 110 subframes collapse, across the MB Range, this is just with owners that I have been working with, through the Owners Club and BenzWorld, and all have collapsed whilst the cars were being driven!

Other Mercedes Benz Models and Other Issues.

R170 Models

I’ve been approached by 7x R170 owners, I’ve put together an information sheet, even though they are not listed on the SSD, it’s worth trying under the Goodwill Warranty. So far 6 owners have now taken this up – one owner is having their claim reviewed by MB in Germany currently. Although we have had no success as yet, but we will continue to try; I will keep owners updated as/if things progress.

R172 Models:

Don’t forget that there could also be issues with corrosion on R172 rear subframes, I have compiled an Information Sheet for the R172!
To date, we have 42 owners who have requested the Information Sheet for the R172 rear subframes. We have had 2 Subframe collapse, and 2 subframe replaced so far and we have had 3 subframe inspected, that were passed as Serviceable!! An owner recently contacted me that they have had their R172 subframe collapse; This has now been replaced, FOC by MB. We now need to keep an eye on other R172 models as this is now becoming a more common issue!

SLK R172 & R231 – Polycarbonate Laminated Roof Issues: inc. Glass Roof leaks**

I have received a copy of the MB Notice: G177.30-P-055700 Polycarbonate roof – water ingress issues – Version 3, Issued 10/16/2013. This describes the issues with the polycarbonate roof delamination – with photos – with test and repair information. This shows that there must have been issues with the polycarbonate roof as long ago as 2013 when this Notice was issued. I have noted that, in the repair section there are no timescales for the repair set down for the various actions. This document was printed off on the 10/03/2023 so no amendments have been made to this section, and it could be argued, that this could suggest that the repair may be covered under the Goodwill Warranty? We will have to see – I have been contacted by 56x R172 UK/European owners, including One R231 Owner, regarding their Roof, and the water ingress issues to date, since I posted this issue on the Club Facebook Page, we have had one owner who has had their leaking roof issue repaired FOC, this was undertaken by the Dealership who sold the vehicle – the dealership said that they were repairing the roof at their own expense - not through any specific Warranty (not even the MB Approved Used Car Warranty, which was still in effect on the vehicle?) Issues with these claims seem to be MBUK refusing to allow action to remedy the distorted, delaminated and leaking roof problem from going ahead, not necessarily the dealerships! – After having in-depth email discussions directly with Senior MB Management in Germany, they have come up with some proposals in the way owners could pursue their polycarbonate roof claims, I have produced an information sheet for the owners of affected vehicles, which reflect these new proposals: I will report back any feedback I receive from the affected owners, and keep members informed as things progress.

R172 Glass Roof Issues** -
I’ve have now been contacted by a few R172 owners whose Glass-Roofed R172 Models are suffering from water ingress issues, the issue could be down to seals, alignment or locking issues but in some cases it would appear to be due to the exterior roof edge trim panels either becoming detached from the glass roof panel and, we have had issues with these panels flying off in the past, whilst the vehicle was being driven; I have compiled a modified information sheet and a retrospective reimbursement information sheet to assist owners with new and potential retrospective, claims. Ongoing

SLK R172, W212, GLA and C63 Models - Bubbling and Lifting paint/Lacquer on Fire Opal Red and potentially, Mars and Jupiter Red Paintwork:

There are issues with the Fire Opal Red/Mars & Jupiter Red paintwork on the R172 and W212, GLA and recently a C63 Model, and getting MB to even look at the paintwork let alone get resprays approved and completed FOC, is problematic, owners can use our Draft Email ‘Paintwork’ claims paperwork, to make the claim through MBCS UK and the MB Dealerships (Bodywork). I have been helping 14 owners, 11x R172, 1x W212, 1x C63 and 1x GLA owners who have bubbling/peeling of their ‘Opal Red’ paintwork – there have been issues with Dealerships and MBCS UK refusing to examine vehicles with this paint problem – but, I have put together a Draft email and information sheet to get Dealerships to examine the paintwork on affected vehicles, we have had 4 FOC resprays and an owner has succeeded in getting their bodywork examined and, MB have agreed to a full respray of the vehicle FOC, providing that the paintwork is original, the car has been approved for respray FOC by MB. Should anyone have this problem with their paintwork, and require an information sheet, please contact me. Ongoing!

R231 Models (New Model)

In August’s report, I informed the groups that I was contacted by the owner of 2013 SL350 with 60k on the clock they bought it 5 weeks after it had been MOT’d and the subframe has collapsed, I feel that it is important to get the information out there that this Model is also susceptible to collapse, to warn owners and keep them safe.
After the dealership sent the report to MB in Germany, I can report that the replacement of the subframe has been approved by MB and, that it has now been replaced FOC. I have had a look on various MB Forum worldwide, and the subframe corrosion on the R231 appears to be quite a common issue, I have also posted an Introductory Message, warning owners of the subframe corrosion/collapsing issues on the R231 BenzWorld pages, and, on the Owners Club Facebook page, as we also need to keep an eye on this model within the Owners Club/BenzWorld Forum!

X204 Model (New Model)

I have been approached by the owner of a 2010 GLK with a rotten rear subframe, the claim process has been started, although the X204 isn’t specifically listed on the SSD, it is however based on the W204 floor-pan. The subframe has been replaced FOC by MB .

W176 Model (New Model)

Just had a report from an owner of a W176 (A-Class) that their subframe has been reported to be in an unsafe condition due to serious corrosion – a modified Draft email has been sent to the owner to send to Germany – awaiting feedback. I will keep owners updated.

W204, W218, W203, W212, W219, C209 and C207 Models:

In the last 16 months, we have been working with, some 380 owners of W204/W218/W203/W212/W219/C207/C209 (C-Class & E-Class), most, 326 of them, have approached me directly, mainly through the ‘BenzWorld’ Forum Sites. Owners are from the UK and across Europe, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, and still owners from all across the USA.
We have had 63 owners of these models whose subframes have collapsed whilst their cars were being driven, some as new as 2014/15 we have had 8 subframes 6x W204, 1x W212 and 1x W218 in the UK that have been passed as serviceable by MB Dealerships and, 3 subframes that have been welded.

Of the 380 owners of W204/W218/W203/W212/C207 Models worked with, we have had some success with subframe replacements; of the 112 subframes (99x W204, 6x W218, 5x W212, 1x C/A W207 and 1x W203), in the UK and Europe, 119 have been inspected to date, MB have replaced or agreed to replace 112 subframes, FOC. 4 of which had been welded. Of the 112 replaced FOC, information from respondents have reported that: 6 have and 39 have not received receipts/invoices listing the subframe replacement.
The vehicles currently being worked with, are mainly, W204’s & W218’s – 2010- 2014, the W212 – some of these models were built as late as 2015 with mileages as little as 40k which have collapses, and the W203’s built from 2003 onwards. We did have dealerships in the USA suggesting that owners ‘Scrap’ 2011 – 2015 C & E-Class models because of the subframes corrosion – not a good advert for Mercedes Benz in the USA that owners should scrap them after between 8 - 11 years!!!
We are currently working with 106, USA/Canadian Owners of SLK & C&E-Class models.
There were serious issues with MBUSA/MB Canada, and I had to provide substantially more information to US owners, this additional information was needed when owners were dealing with US Dealerships and with MBUSA. The problems in the USA have now been addressed, with the issuance of an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ on the R172, W204, W218, W203 and W212, etc. models, in the USA and Canada, all claims – new and retrospective, are currently progressing, I will keep owners/members updated with progress

General Information:
As some of you know I have been working with Andrew Everett from Car Mechanics Magazine, re: ‘Project Mercedes’ which was undertaken on an R171, by the Magazine (Re: The subframe Issues). They used our Claim paperwork and had their subframe replaced FOC and the Club and I both got a mention in the article as leading a crusade to support owners with corroded and collapsed subframe issues.

There is also an Article, published in the ‘Gebrauchtwagen’ Motoring Magazine in Germany, that suggested that MB are going to undertake the replacement of corroded subframes FOC, on Models that have, what MB term – ‘multi-link rear suspension’, these would include the majority of models listed on the MB Service Supplement Document regarding rear subframes: S135.00-P-0009A Service Information: Supplement to notes in maintenance documents on rear axle. Issued 05-11-2018”, which includes the R171, the main stipulations within the Article being, that; “the subframes should be inspected and their replacement undertaken, in MB Dealerships

I received a message from one of the Administrators on BenzWorld Forum, which said; “Hello Dave, just a message to thank you for supporting our members that have that rear sub-frame issue, it's very kind of you to go to so much trouble. I've read many of the posts from concerned members who have that sub-frame issue, and it has been a great relief that I can now refer them to you. Are Mercedes-Benz now prepared to address this issue and effect repairs FOC, or do you have to fight each claim on an individual basis? Once again, very many thanks, your help is much appreciated. Very best wishes, James." Which shows that what we are doing is appreciated beyond the bounds of the Club.
I am still working with the 4 Law Firms in the USA who are compiling a 'Class Action' against MB over in the US during which we discussed how the information I have compile dover the past 2 year may assist them in compiling their case. They seemed a little surprised when they asked how many owners I was working with and I told them with the main groups of SLK and C & E-Class owners that I am working with over 1200 currently and the numbers continue to grow! The Law Firms have said that they would be happy to expand the scope of the Class Action to encompass owners outside the USA.
As I identified in my last report, “Regarding the FOC subframe replacement of subframes by MB; that we needed to identify the timescales involved; if it applies to ALL Models that have multi-link suspension; All the models listed in the Article; and, if the FOC subframe replacements, apply worldwide?” I can also report that we are having success in Europe with the FOC replacement of a rear subframe and no additional charges, for an owner in Cyprus which is excellent news – this is added to the owners in Spain and the ones in the USA and apparently the Extended Warranty Notice looks like it also applies to Canada (Clarified).

The ‘6 Month Ownership Rule’

This 6-month ownership issue is something that has only cropped up in the last couple of weeks - I am not sure if it is the Dealerships or MB that are saying this? If owners come up against this issue, contact me for an information sheet. dave@castellni.co.uk .
Only a few dealerships seem to be using it, so, I am not certain if it Is something that MB Germany have brought in or, whether it is something that some dealerships have unilaterally brought in?
My MB Dealership Manager contacts haven’t heard anything about it, as yet, so they aren’t running with this currently.
I can understand why the likes of MB would like to bring this is in, but, my personal views, for what they are worth, are that; MB had the original subframes produced by a contractor and they weren’t properly protected inside against corrosion, which has allowed them to rot from the inside - out!
As such, MB are, and have been, replacing them FOC for owners of affected vehicles.
The timescale of ownership has not affected the subframe corrosion and, as such, whoever applies for the FOC replacement, should be of no consequence as far as the replacement is concerned!
The only person that will have lost out on this transaction, is the previous owner, not MB, as, if the previous owner has known about the FOC replacement of the subframes, they would/could have contacted MB to get it replaced FOC, which would be the same, cost-wise, to MB, as the new owner having it replaced.
This is the logical argument I would use if I were in the position of one of the owners who has just purchased the car and finds that is requires a subframe replacement!

Direct contact with Senior Management in Daimler, Mercedes-Benz Cars, AG in Germany.

I have contacted Senior management in Germany with a possible view to working directly with them with regard to providing information to owners in the Owners Club and on BenzWorld to help reduce the level of contact with owners who effectively come through me initially – The Board have decided that they want to be contacted by Owners directly, as they want to be able to act directly on owners feedback. Dave.

I am also working directly, with ‘Admins’ across the ‘BenzWorld Forum’ have posted a substantial amount of information regarding the various issues MB owners are experiencing and are now actively promoting what we are doing to support MB Owners with the subframe and other issues.


‘Extended Warranty Notice’ EWN (MBUSA and MB Canada)

As I stated in previous monthly Report, Mercedes-Benz have, after some 8 months of pressurising them, MB have now issued an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’, through MBUSA and now, MB Canada, stating that they will now replace the corroded subframes FOC on ALL affected MB Models in the USA and Canada, and, that owners who have paid to have their subframes replaced, we are now able to make Retrospective Claims for owners to be reimbursed. It currently appears that these reimbursements include owners who, through MBUSA’s indifference/intransichance, and/or the Dealerships attitude towards them, have had their subframes replaced by Third Party Garages – I am, as expected, receiving posts from some MB owners in the USA and Canada, who are trying to claim retrospective refunds as identified in the Extended Warranty Notice, owners are complaining that the amounts that MBUSA/MB Canada, Dealerships will refund, nowhere near cover their actual costs!! I do have an issue with one owner in Canada who took the information from an MB Canada Dealership literally and scrapped their car. I am in discussion with this owner and with the Law Firms to see if there is any way to make a claim?
I still don’t understand why MB can’t just admit they got it wrong and do the thing properly? As I felt this may be the situation, I had already put together a draft email for owners to use to press MBUSA and MB-Germany to pay the full costs - parts and labour, as the behaviour of the US Dealerships was appalling – Dealership suggesting owner scrap 2014-15 C&E-Class models as they would not be cost-effective to replace the subframes on!! Effectively forcing owners to have the subframes replace elsewhere!! I am hearing from some US/Canadian Owners that they are now receiving retrospective refunds for their self-funded subframe replacements.
It is interesting that MBUSA and MB Canada owners are having the same sort of issues we are, with regard to the replacement of the Front to Rear brake pipes, with timescales and costs!! Something that has cropped up in both the UK, the USA and Canada is that owners are turning up to pick up their cars after subframe changes and are finding that they have numerous fault code, EML lights on, etc. that weren’t on when they dropped the cars off and the dealers are saying that it is nothing to do with them and wanting to charge for fault finding? One owner took their back several times and each time it came out with a different fault which when they took it back the dealership wanted to charge again for the diagnostics – something for owners to be aware of when collecting their car after subframe replacements!! (This is still a little challenging, currently)
Claims under the Extended Warranty Notice: In the USA and Canada, we have had; 8 ‘new claim’ subframes replaced, and 6 Retrospective Refunds that have been repaid to owners so far.
I have rewritten the US version of the Retrospective Claims Paperwork, to take onto account, the current situation, and I am still working with owners in the USA and Canada, clarifying the retrospective claim process with MBUSA. Initial feedback from US owners is, that MBUSA have been contacted by owners, some of whom have received full refunds whilst others have been offered amounts well below what they were claiming – this has been challenged and will hopefully result in full refunds from MB in the near future.
I was looking if there would be any benefit to owners in the UK/Europe, if we were to push MB in Germany into issuing a similar ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ (EWN) to cover the claims in the UK and Europe, if they were to issue a Notice to cover the UK/Europe, it may have detrimental effect on the timescale that MB will support the replacements of subframes (MB have limited the support time in the USA/Canada, by extending the Warranty Period from 5 to 20 years and, withdrawn any/all mileage limits to ‘unlimited mileage’), I have decided to leave things as they stand, with MB replacing the subframes FOC at the moment, as this ‘EWN’ is time-limited (to 20 years), I feel that there would be no advantage to pursue any change at this time, as some of our models are pushing 19 years atm but, I will continue to review this!

It is good that MB have issued this ‘EWN in the USA and Canada which allows owners, to get the same sort of service that we have enjoyed over here in the UK and Europe? PLEASE NOTE: This Extended Warranty Notice ONLY applies to owners and vehicles in the USA/Canada. Although, I have been in contact with owners in Canada and found out that the EWN also applies to owners in Canada, there is a question about retrospective reimbursement for owners in Canada, who had paid for their own subframe replacement? I am reviewing this currently as MB do reimburse owners for this in the USA?
There are worries from owners in the UK/European group, that the likely additional subframe needs through the increased number needed in the USA and Canada (Potentially 10’s or even 100’s of thousands of subframes) will affect the supply of subframes to be available to the UK and Europe, this is a concern, but, I feel that MB might find it more cost effective (shipping costs, timescales, etc.) to produce the subframes in the USA,? We will have to see what happens, I don’t really, foresee issues with this, but we shall see. I will now be able to, more easily, manage the support that I can provide to owners across the UK/Europe, USA, Canada, Australia, Africa and the Middle East, to keep things moving.

I have been contacted by a helpful MB Service Manager, at one of the dealerships on my ‘Good List’ who has provided me with information about some of the issues we are experiencing currently – subframe delays, timescales, job-times, Goodwill Warranty, etc. This contact has provided information that the ‘lead-time’ on subframes is approximately 2 – 3 weeks currently which has been very helpful with our current and future claims also, one of our owners had received an email from Germany stating that MB had sent out a ‘How To’ Guide, to all their dealerships regarding the replacement of subframes. I questioned this with my MB Dealership Manager Contacts, who have checked, and they have informed me that they hadn’t received anything, and they checked all the information regarding subframe replacement and there has been no ‘How To’ Guide, received by their dealerships! This will help us, directly and indirectly, with some additional cost issues we are currently experiencing with MBUK/Europe and MBUSA.

As you will remember, I had been approached by an owner in Germany, who is having issues getting their subframe replaced on their R171. I was under the impression that MB in Germany were, effectively, replacing them as a matter of course, I can report that the subframe has been replaced FOC by MB in Germany.
I have been sorting out an issue with Customer Services’ in Spain, France, Sweden and Romania, where Dealerships were trying to charge the owner to fit the new subframe, we took the issue to Senior Management in Germany, and it was resolved by them, and the Dealerships in Spain, France, Holland, Sweden and the Republic of Ireland have fitted the new subframes FOC, we are waiting for a reply from the owners in Romania, regarding the response from their dealerships. Ongoing.

Since I, and more recently, the BenzWorld Admin Team, placed Posts on MB Subframe Corrosion on the BenzWorld, Forum, there have been:

37000* Views of the R171/R231 Rear Subframe Post, resulting in 192 direct contacts from owners since 2021,

57000* Views of the W204/W218/W214, Rear Subframe Post, resulting in 323 direct contacts from these owners in the last 17 months,

25000* Views of the W203 Rear Subframe Post, in the 17 months it has been posted, there have now been 3 direct contacts from owners to date.

38000* Views of the W212 Rear Subframe Post, in the 17 months it has been up, there have been 20 contacts from owners to date.

3000* Views of the NEW R172 Polycarbonate Roof, Water Ingress/Paint/ Subframes post, in the last 5 months.

2000* Views of the R172 Rear Subframe Post, in the last 17 months resulting in 42 contacts 2 subframe collapses 3 subframes replaced FOC

3000* Views of the C/A207 Rear Subframe Post, in the last 6 months resulting in 3 contacts – one FOC subframe replacement

In-light of the email about a 2013, SL350 subframe collapsing due to corrosion, just 12 weeks after an MOT – Currently - 1 (BW) contact and, one subframe collapse. FOC replacement has been completed by MB.

* Approx. Numbers recorded by BenzWorld
NOTE: Since the last monthly report, BenzWorld Admins have been in contact with me and, they have now posted information on the various issues I cover, in the various Model (Chassis) sections on their sites, which will inform more owners of the safety and other issues and will enable more affected owners to be able to contact me for help and advice.

Dave Evans
dave@castellni.co.uk

 

Hi Folks, as you are aware, I record a serious amount of information on Rear Subframe corrosion issues. Looking at my data today, I have noticed a worrying trend regarding R171 rear subframes over the past month or so. I have recorded an increase in the number of R171 subframes that have collapsed and the percentages of collapsed subframes compared to owner just contacting me for the Information Sheets on subframe corrosion is at a level I find worrying - of the last 25 contacts, 9 have been subframe collapses. Can I ask that owners take any opportunity to get their subframes checked or inspected as one of my latest owners said that their car had “tried to kill them when the subframe collapsed going around a bend” Thank you for taking the time to read this and remember that I am here to help with the process. Speak to you soon, Dave Evans

 

‘Subframe Corner’ Monthly Update for, SLK Owners Club Facebook and BenzWorld Forum Pages - 31/12/2023.

Hi folks, yes, it’s that time again, below is the latest monthly ‘Recorded Data’ Update, covering the period from March 2021 to 31 December 2023.
This report is mainly on the SLK R171, but also on other MB Models, regarding the rear subframe corrosion situation, keeping you informed of owners’ progress, successes, and other related rear subframe issues. There are also other issues with MB vehicles that we have also started to work with owners to challenge MB about.

R171 Model

We have now been contacted by 988- R171 Owners in total (inc. C209 and R231 models) and, are working with 350+ of them. 192 of these owners have come through BenzWorld/MBOC, most are from the UK and Northern Ireland but, we are still working with owners in Europe (Republic of Ireland, Isle of Man, Isle of Whight, Guernsey, Poland, Holland, Denmark, France, Spain, Norway, Netherlands, Sweden, Bulgaria, Belarus, Germany, Cyprus, Romania,) also Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Africa, the Middle East and the USA (on ALL affected MB Models) some US Owners are still asking for guidance with regard to the new ‘Extended Warranty Notice’.

With the R171, we have had 342 subframes replaced or authorised for replacement FOC (this includes 24 owners whose vehicles are currently in Dealerships having subframes changed or are waiting for parts to arrive, atm).

The latest count shows that we have had 53 - R171 subframes that have collapsed, and 1x also had a hub casting collapse, these collapses occurred whilst the cars were being driven, fortunately, there have been no serious injuries and no fatalities in our Owners Club. I have made a FoI Request to Nottingham Police, requested information on the accident video posted on the Club Facebook page of a post from, ‘Mail On-line’ to see if the SLK involved, was inspected at the time, regarding the condition of the subframe?

Currently, 59 of the subframes that have been inspected, have been passed as ‘Serviceable’, by MB Dealerships. As a matter of course, we have suggested that the owners have their subframes inspected by an Independent Garage to ensure that they are safe. This is advised, after one of our owners’ subframes collapsed less than 2 weeks after being passed as serviceable by MB, and One whose subframe collapsed within a week of an MOT.
We have also had 46 owners out of a total of 52, who have had their subframes changed FOC, in spite of them having been welded and, we still have 6 owners with welded subframes, waiting for theirs to be inspected. Worryingly, we have recently had an issue with some, initially, ‘Good List’ Dealerships making their own decisions as to whether the welded subframes should be replaced, This takes the decision away from, MBCS UK who are not given the option to approve the replacement of welded subframes, on the previous report, it can be seen that this seemed to have been successfully challenged and was over-turned by Management in Germany. Unfortunately, things have not returned to the way it was in the past. Dealerships should not be making the decisions; this is up to MBCS UK!! This issue has been brought to the attention of senior management in MB Germany! I have produced a draft email for owners to personalise and send, along with their Video recording, initially, to MBCS UK and if they don’t act, we can use a similar email to escalate the issue to the Directors and CEO of Mercedes Benz Cars AG in Germany.
There is still a lack of consistency in these decisions. we have one owner who was told by a dealership that the car didn’t need an inspection as it has an MOT Failure Sheet? A couple of owners were left with only one option, to contact MB senior management in Germany which they did, and Senior Management in Germany investigated the issues and overturned the Dealership and MBUK decisions.
I have had some dealerships moved to the ‘To Avoid’ List, and will no longer promote these dealership with owners, and, have moved some Dealerships to the ‘Good List’ who will be actively promoted with owners; Again, Both lists are kept under constant review!
Some Dealerships (now on my ‘To Avoid’ List) are still demanding that owners signed an agreement, that the owner will agree to pay costs, up to £1800, for “components they ‘may’ have to replace”, in advance of work starting (owners SHOULD NOT agree to this!! Contact me if this is requested!! It is important that owners challenge this, I will send them information that should help. I have also suggested that, if this doesn’t work, the owners should take their cars to another dealership, from a different Dealership Group. There has been some movement from these initial challenges, dealerships undertake the subframe replacement and are, generally, changing their minds about pursuing or at least substantially, reducing these charges – as you know, have new contact information for senior MB Management in Daimler/Mercedes-Benz AG, in Germany, which we will continue to use, if/when we escalate any complaints; Some other dealership issues/complaints are still being investigated and will be reported back on, in due course!

We still, occasionally, have some owners who are receiving the initial reply from MBCS UK, saying that owners should have a FMBSH, and that they should take the car to an MB Dealership for a Safety Check! NOTE: We still only have ONE owner out of the 342 who have had their subframes replaced FOC, with anything like a FMBSH.

There is still a reluctance, on the part of MB Dealerships, to detail the replacement of the rear subframe on receipts/invoices, for Owners’ Service History, as under a 1/6 are being recorded on owners’ receipts/invoices. Currently, of the owners who have responded; 24 SLK owners have a ‘subframe replaced’ receipt and, 164 have not.

There is still a concern, that some MB Dealerships are still trying to coerce owners to pay for parts which should be covered by the Warranty, i.e., nuts, bolts, brackets, Mountings, etc. and some of the prices quoted, do appear excessive for what is identified (Up to £1200)!! Again, we challenge this behaviour! We have had one dealership wanting to charge £2800 to replace brake pipes and fuel pipe stating that it will take 13 hours?? I spoke to an MB Dealership Workshop Manager who says that there isn’t a ‘set’ time for the brake-pipe replacement but, in their dealership, they charge around 2 - 3 hours labour if the brake-pipes are replaced with a subframe replacement.
It is good to see, that MB are still undertaking subframe replacements and, the current turn-around time on authorisation does, in general, seem to be substantially quicker, unfortunately dealerships are saying that there is a shortage of subframes in the UK which does slow the actual turn-round time and, some Dealerships are currently saying that it takes 3 months or longer, we are challenging this both Locally (MBCS UK) and with the Directors and CEO of D/MB AG in Germany. My Dealership Service Manager contacts inform me that the lead time on subframes is about 2 – 3 weeks.
I keep getting requests from owners questioning timescales for the supply of new subframes – mainly R171’s, but including C & E-Class – I have produced a draft email for owners to send to MBCS UK to see if they can help provide some sort of timescale? I have also drafted an email for owners to send to the Directors and CEO on D/MB AG in Germany, I have heard from an owner who used the draft email to contact the Directors and CEO of Daimler Mercedes-Benz AG in Germany, about timescales for delivery – the CEO was not happy with the reasons given for the delays, and contacted the dealership, the subframe was delivered within a few days and fitted, there were no additional charges! Success!
There had been issues importing new subframes into Germany, from wherever MB were importing them?
I have heard from an owner, who has been informed by a dealership, that MB have changed their subframe manufacturer and, the new subframes are supposed to be rust protected inside, we will have to see? In any case, I would treat the inside with Waxoyl from new just in case? But it is good to hear that subframes are being imported again, we will have to see how things progress. According to my MB Contact there is about a 2 – 3 week lead time on subframes, currently.
Unfortunately, I have received information that an owner was informed that a dealership had refused to accept receipt of 5 NEW subframes as they had heavy corrosion on them, upon delivery, with this in mind I have suggested that owners check the condition of their new subframes upon collection of the car after replacement and, suggested that owners who have had their subframes replaced already, to check the subframes as soon as possible, especially, as mentioned before, only about 1/6 of owners are getting a receipt showing the subframe replacement (24 did and 162 did not) I have also suggested that owners contact MB and check that the replacement of their subframe is recorded on the MB Vehicle Database/Service History to make sure that they are recorded just in case there are any corrosion issues in future.

The Owners Club and I had a mention in May 2022 Issue of the Car Mechanics Magazine regarding our crusade for FOC subframe replacements as we helped them get the subframe replaced FOC by MB on their ‘Project Mercedes’ rebuild of an R171! (a copy of the article has been published on the Club Facebook Pages a copy is available, via email, upon request) this will help add weight to the information we send out regarding the Subframe replacement issues to MB Dealerships, MBCS UK.

Subframes - Retrospective Reimbursement Claims.

This is progressing slowly, I have sent information to owners, most in the USA, and I will continue to send out information sheets and Draft emails, for all owners to personalise and send-off to D/MB AG in Germany; I will continue to keep owners informed as things progress.
As I said in the last monthly report, I heard from owners who had to pay for their own subframe replacements, and we have had 3 UK owners who have been reimbursed for their subframes and, in one case, some other components that they were charged for, I am sure that this will continue to be successful for owners who have been out of pocket.
This is less of an issue in the USA and Canada, I have produced a Retrospective Reimbursement Claim Form for the US and Canada as we have owners in the US that are in the same situation; as MB have now issued an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ which they have issued through MBUSA, allowing all US/Canada dealerships to now replace the subframe FOC and, to more easily allow owners to claim, retrospectively, for replacements undertaken by third party garages on all affected models. Owners just need to produce all their receipts, as our owners over here do, as proof.

Should owners have any questions or issues? I am available to be contacted through the Club Facebook Page, BenzWorld and directly by email, should owners want to discuss individual; Cases/Issues/Problems/Good Dealerships/Dealerships to Avoid, etc. and, if they should require any Moral Support through the process.

I hope this Data informs and encourages other owners to look at the current situation, regarding R171 rear subframe replacements and, prompt them to either, check or, get their subframes checked, for safety’s sake? We have now had a total of 110 subframes collapse, across the MB Range, this is just with owners that I have been working with, through the Owners Club and BenzWorld, and all have collapsed whilst the cars were being driven!

Other Mercedes Benz Models and Other Issues.

R170 Models

I’ve been approached by 7x R170 owners, I’ve put together an information sheet, even though they are not listed on the SSD, it’s worth trying under the Goodwill Warranty. So far 6 owners have now taken this up – one owner is having their claim reviewed by MB in Germany currently. Although we have had no success as yet, but we will continue to try; I will keep owners updated as/if things progress.

R172 Models:

Don’t forget that there could also be issues with corrosion on R172 rear subframes, I have compiled an Information Sheet for the R172!
To date, we have 42 owners who have requested the Information Sheet for the R172 rear subframes. We have had 2 Subframe collapse, and 2 subframe replaced so far and we have had 3 subframe inspected, that were passed as Serviceable!! An owner recently contacted me that they have had their R172 subframe collapse; This has now been replaced, FOC by MB. We now need to keep an eye on other R172 models as this is now becoming a more common issue!

SLK R172 & R231 – Polycarbonate Laminated Roof Issues: inc. Glass Roof leaks**

I have received a copy of the MB Notice: G177.30-P-055700 Polycarbonate roof – water ingress issues – Version 3, Issued 10/16/2013. This describes the issues with the polycarbonate roof delamination – with photos – with test and repair information. This shows that there must have been issues with the polycarbonate roof as long ago as 2013 when this Notice was issued. I have noted that, in the repair section there are no timescales for the repair set down for the various actions. This document was printed off on the 10/03/2023 so no amendments have been made to this section, and it could be argued, that this could suggest that the repair may be covered under the Goodwill Warranty? We will have to see – I have been contacted by 62x R172 UK/European owners, and One R231 Owner, regarding their Roof, and the water ingress issues to date, since I posted this issue on the Club Facebook Page, we have had one owner who has had their leaking roof issue repaired FOC, this was undertaken by the Dealership who sold the vehicle – the dealership said that they were repairing the roof at their own expense - not through any specific Warranty (not even the MB Approved Used Car Warranty, which was still in effect on the vehicle?) Issues with these claims seem to be MBUK refusing to allow action to remedy the distorted, delaminated and leaking roof problem from going ahead, not necessarily the dealerships! – After having in-depth email discussions directly with Senior MB Management in Germany, they have come up with some proposals in the way owners could pursue their polycarbonate roof claims, I have produced an information sheet for the owners of affected vehicles, which reflect these new proposals: I will report back any feedback I receive from the affected owners, and keep members informed as things progress.

R172 Glass Roof Issues** -
I’ve have now been contacted by a number of R172 owners whose Glass-Roofed R172 Models are suffering from water ingress issues, the issue could be down to seals, alignment or locking issues but in some cases it would appear to be due to the exterior roof edge trim panels either becoming detached from the glass roof panel and, we have had issues with these panels flying off in the past, whilst the vehicle was being driven; I have compiled a modified information sheet and a retrospective reimbursement information sheet to assist owners with new and potential retrospective, claims. Ongoing

SLK R172, W212, GLA and C63 Models - Bubbling and Lifting paint/Lacquer on Fire Opal Red and potentially, Mars and Jupiter Red Paintwork:

There are issues with the Fire Opal Red/Mars & Jupiter Red paintwork on the R172 and W212, GLA and recently a C63 Model, and getting MB to even look at the paintwork let alone get resprays approved and completed FOC, is problematic, owners can use our Draft Email ‘Paintwork’ claims paperwork, to make the claim through MBCS UK and the MB Dealerships (Bodywork). I have been helping 16 owners, 14x R172, 1x W212, 1x C63 and 1x GLA owners who have bubbling/peeling of their ‘Opal Red’ paintwork – there have been issues with Dealerships and MBCS UK refusing to examine vehicles with this paint problem – but, I have put together a Draft email and information sheet to get Dealerships to examine the paintwork on affected vehicles, we have had 4 FOC resprays and an owner has succeeded in getting their bodywork examined and, MB have agreed to a full respray of the vehicle FOC, providing that the paintwork is original, the car has been approved for respray FOC by MB. Should anyone have this problem with their paintwork, and require an information sheet, please contact me. Ongoing!

R231 Models (New Model)

In August’s report, I informed the groups that I was contacted by the owner of 2013 SL350 with 60k on the clock they bought it 5 weeks after it had been MOT’d and the subframe has collapsed, I feel that it is important to get the information out there that this Model is also susceptible to collapse, to warn owners and keep them safe.
After the dealership sent the report to MB in Germany, I can report that the replacement of the subframe has been approved by MB and, that it has now been replaced FOC. I have had a look on various MB Forum worldwide, and the subframe corrosion on the R231 appears to be quite a common issue, I have also posted an Introductory Message, warning owners of the subframe corrosion/collapsing issues on the R231 BenzWorld pages, and, on the Owners Club Facebook page, as we also need to keep an eye on this model within the Owners Club/BenzWorld Forum!

X204 Model (New Model)

I have been approached by the owner of a 2010 GLK with a rotten rear subframe, the claim process has been started, although the X204 isn’t specifically listed on the SSD, it is however based on the W204 floor-pan. The subframe has been replaced FOC by MB .

W176 Model (New Model)

Just had a report from an owner of a W176 (A-Class) that their subframe has been reported to be in an unsafe condition due to serious corrosion – a modified Draft email has been sent to the owner to send to Germany – awaiting feedback. I will keep owners updated.

W204, W218, W203, W212, W219, C209 and C207 Models:

In the last 16 months, we have been working with, some 383 owners of W204/W218/W203/W212/W219/C207/C209 (C-Class & E-Class), most, 329 of them, have approached me directly, mainly through the ‘BenzWorld’ Forum Sites. Owners are from the UK and across Europe, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, and still owners from all across the USA.
We have had 65 owners of these models whose subframes have collapsed whilst their cars were being driven, some as new as 2014/15 we have had 8 subframes 6x W204, 1x W212 and 1x W218 in the UK that have been passed as serviceable by MB Dealerships and, 3 subframes that have been welded.

Of the 383 owners of W204/W218/W203/W212/C207 Models worked with, we have had some success with subframe replacements; of the 114 subframes (101x W204, 6x W218, 5x W212, 1x C/A W207 and 1x W203), in the UK and Europe, 122 have been inspected to date, MB have replaced or agreed to replace 112 subframes, FOC. 4 of which had been welded. Of the 114 replaced FOC, information from respondents have reported that: 6 have and 39 have not received receipts/invoices listing the subframe replacement.
The vehicles currently being worked with, are mainly, W204’s & W218’s – 2010- 2014, the W212 – some of these models were built as late as 2015 with mileages as little as 40k which have collapses, and the W203’s built from 2003 onwards. We did have dealerships in the USA suggesting that owners ‘Scrap’ 2011 – 2015 C & E-Class models because of the subframes corrosion – not a good advert for Mercedes Benz in the USA that owners should scrap them after between 8 - 11 years!!!
We are currently working with 106, USA/Canadian Owners of SLK & C&E-Class models.
There were serious issues with MBUSA/MB Canada, and I had to provide substantially more information to US owners, this additional information was needed when owners were dealing with US Dealerships and with MBUSA. The problems in the USA have now been addressed, with the issuance of an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ on the R172, W204, W218, W203 and W212, etc. models, in the USA and Canada, all claims – new and retrospective, are currently progressing, I will keep owners/members updated with progress.

General Information:
As some of you know I have been working with Andrew Everett from Car Mechanics Magazine, re: ‘Project Mercedes’ which was undertaken on an R171, by the Magazine (Re: The subframe Issues). They used our Claim paperwork and had their subframe replaced FOC and the Club and I both got a mention in the article as leading a crusade to support owners with corroded and collapsed subframe issues.

There is also an Article, published in the ‘Gebrauchtwagen’ Motoring Magazine in Germany, that suggested that MB are going to undertake the replacement of corroded subframes FOC, on Models that have, what MB term – ‘multi-link rear suspension’, these would include the majority of models listed on the MB Service Supplement Document regarding rear subframes: S135.00-P-0009A Service Information: Supplement to notes in maintenance documents on rear axle. Issued 05-11-2018”, which includes the R171, the main stipulations within the Article being, that; “the subframes should be inspected and their replacement undertaken, in MB Dealerships

I received a message from one of the Administrators on BenzWorld Forum, which said; “Hello Dave, just a message to thank you for supporting our members that have that rear sub-frame issue, it's very kind of you to go to so much trouble. I've read many of the posts from concerned members who have that sub-frame issue, and it has been a great relief that I can now refer them to you. Are Mercedes-Benz now prepared to address this issue and effect repairs FOC, or do you have to fight each claim on an individual basis? Once again, very many thanks, your help is much appreciated. Very best wishes, James." Which shows that what we are doing is appreciated beyond the bounds of the Club.
I am still working with the 4 Law Firms in the USA who are compiling a 'Class Action' against MB over in the US during which we discussed how the information I have compile dover the past 2 year may assist them in compiling their case. They seemed a little surprised when they asked how many owners I was working with and I told them with the main groups of SLK and C & E-Class owners that I am working with over 1200 currently and the numbers continue to grow! The Law Firms have said that they would be happy to expand the scope of the Class Action to encompass owners outside the USA.
As I identified in my last report, “Regarding the FOC subframe replacement of subframes by MB; that we needed to identify the timescales involved; if it applies to ALL Models that have multi-link suspension; All the models listed in the Article; and, if the FOC subframe replacements, apply worldwide?” I can also report that we are having success in Europe with the FOC replacement of a rear subframe and no additional charges, for an owner in Cyprus which is excellent news – this is added to the owners in Spain and the ones in the USA and apparently the Extended Warranty Notice looks like it also applies to Canada (Clarified).

The ‘6 Month Ownership Rule’

This 6-month ownership issue is something that has only cropped up in the last couple of weeks - I am not sure if it is the Dealerships or MB that are saying this? If owners come up against this issue, contact me for an information sheet. dave@castellni.co.uk .
Only a few dealerships seem to be using it, so, I am not certain if it Is something that MB Germany have brought in or, whether it is something that some dealerships have unilaterally brought in?
My MB Dealership Manager contacts haven’t heard anything about it, as yet, so they aren’t running with this currently.
I can understand why the likes of MB would like to bring this is in, but, my personal views, for what they are worth, are that; MB had the original subframes produced by a contractor and they weren’t properly protected inside against corrosion, which has allowed them to rot from the inside - out!
As such, MB are, and have been, replacing them FOC for owners of affected vehicles.
The timescale of ownership has not affected the subframe corrosion and, as such, whoever applies for the FOC replacement, should be of no consequence as far as the replacement is concerned!
The only person that will have lost out on this transaction, is the previous owner, not MB, as, if the previous owner has known about the FOC replacement of the subframes, they would/could have contacted MB to get it replaced FOC, which would be the same, cost-wise, to MB, as the new owner having it replaced.
This is the logical argument I would use if I were in the position of one of the owners who has just purchased the car and finds that is requires a subframe replacement!

Direct contact with Senior Management in Daimler, Mercedes-Benz Cars, AG in Germany.

I have contacted Senior management in Germany with a possible view to working directly with them with regard to providing information to owners in the Owners Club and on BenzWorld to help reduce the level of contact with owners who effectively come through me initially – The Board have decided that they want to be contacted by Owners directly, as they want to be able to act directly on owners feedback. Dave.

I am also working directly, with ‘Admins’ across the ‘BenzWorld Forum’ have posted a substantial amount of information regarding the various issues MB owners are experiencing and are now actively promoting what we are doing to support MB Owners with the subframe and other issues.


‘Extended Warranty Notice’ EWN (MBUSA and MB Canada)

As I stated in previous monthly Report, Mercedes-Benz have, after some 8 months of pressurising them, MB have now issued an ‘Extended Warranty Notice’, through MBUSA and now, MB Canada, stating that they will now replace the corroded subframes FOC on ALL affected MB Models in the USA and Canada, and, that owners who have paid to have their subframes replaced, we are now able to make Retrospective Claims for owners to be reimbursed. It currently appears that these reimbursements include owners who, through MBUSA’s indifference/intransichance, and/or the Dealerships attitude towards them, have had their subframes replaced by Third Party Garages – I am, as expected, receiving posts from some MB owners in the USA and Canada, who are trying to claim retrospective refunds as identified in the Extended Warranty Notice, owners are complaining that the amounts that MBUSA/MB Canada, Dealerships will refund, nowhere near cover their actual costs!! I do have an issue with one owner in Canada who took the information from an MB Canada Dealership literally and scrapped their car. I am in discussion with this owner and with the Law Firms to see if there is any way to make a claim?
I still don’t understand why MB can’t just admit they got it wrong and do the thing properly? As I felt this may be the situation, I had already put together a draft email for owners to use to press MBUSA and MB-Germany to pay the full costs - parts and labour, as the behaviour of the US Dealerships was appalling – Dealership suggesting owner scrap 2014-15 C&E-Class models as they would not be cost-effective to replace the subframes on!! Effectively forcing owners to have the subframes replace elsewhere!! I am hearing from some US/Canadian Owners that they are now receiving retrospective refunds for their self-funded subframe replacements.
It is interesting that MBUSA and MB Canada owners are having the same sort of issues we are, with regard to the replacement of the Front to Rear brake pipes, with timescales and costs!! Something that has cropped up in both the UK, the USA and Canada is that owners are turning up to pick up their cars after subframe changes and are finding that they have numerous fault code, EML lights on, etc. that weren’t on when they dropped the cars off and the dealers are saying that it is nothing to do with them and wanting to charge for fault finding? One owner took their back several times and each time it came out with a different fault which when they took it back the dealership wanted to charge again for the diagnostics – something for owners to be aware of when collecting their car after subframe replacements!! (This is still a little challenging, currently)
Claims under the Extended Warranty Notice: In the USA and Canada, we have had; 8 ‘new claim’ subframes replaced, and 6 Retrospective Refunds that have been repaid to owners so far.
I have rewritten the US version of the Retrospective Claims Paperwork, to take onto account, the current situation, and I am still working with owners in the USA and Canada, clarifying the retrospective claim process with MBUSA. Initial feedback from US owners is, that MBUSA have been contacted by owners, some of whom have received full refunds whilst others have been offered amounts well below what they were claiming – this has been challenged and will hopefully result in full refunds from MB in the near future.
I was looking if there would be any benefit to owners in the UK/Europe, if we were to push MB in Germany into issuing a similar ‘Extended Warranty Notice’ (EWN) to cover the claims in the UK and Europe, if they were to issue a Notice to cover the UK/Europe, it may have detrimental effect on the timescale that MB will support the replacements of subframes (MB have limited the support time in the USA/Canada, by extending the Warranty Period from 5 to 20 years and, withdrawn any/all mileage limits to ‘unlimited mileage’), I have decided to leave things as they stand, with MB replacing the subframes FOC at the moment, as this ‘EWN’ is time-limited (to 20 years), I feel that there would be no advantage to pursue any change at this time, as some of our models are pushing 19 years atm but, I will continue to review this!

It is good that MB have issued this ‘EWN in the USA and Canada which allows owners, to get the same sort of service that we have enjoyed over here in the UK and Europe? PLEASE NOTE: This Extended Warranty Notice ONLY applies to owners and vehicles in the USA/Canada. Although, I have been in contact with owners in Canada and found out that the EWN also applies to owners in Canada, there is a question about retrospective reimbursement for owners in Canada, who had paid for their own subframe replacement? I am reviewing this currently as MB do reimburse owners for this in the USA?
There are worries from owners in the UK/European group, that the likely additional subframe needs through the increased number needed in the USA and Canada (Potentially 10’s or even 100’s of thousands of subframes) will affect the supply of subframes to be available to the UK and Europe, this is a concern, but, I feel that MB might find it more cost effective (shipping costs, timescales, etc.) to produce the subframes in the USA,? We will have to see what happens, I don’t really, foresee issues with this, but we shall see. I will now be able to, more easily, manage the support that I can provide to owners across the UK/Europe, USA, Canada, Australia, Africa and the Middle East, to keep things moving.

I have been contacted by a helpful MB Service Manager, at one of the dealerships on my ‘Good List’ who has provided me with information about some of the issues we are experiencing currently – subframe delays, timescales, job-times, Goodwill Warranty, etc. This contact has provided information that the ‘lead-time’ on subframes is approximately 2 – 3 weeks currently which has been very helpful with our current and future claims also, one of our owners had received an email from Germany stating that MB had sent out a ‘How To’ Guide, to all their dealerships regarding the replacement of subframes. I questioned this with my MB Dealership Manager Contacts, who have checked, and they have informed me that they hadn’t received anything, and they checked all the information regarding subframe replacement and there has been no ‘How To’ Guide, received by their dealerships! This will help us, directly and indirectly, with some additional cost issues we are currently experiencing with MBUK/Europe and MBUSA.

As you will remember, I had been approached by an owner in Germany, who is having issues getting their subframe replaced on their R171. I was under the impression that MB in Germany were, effectively, replacing them as a matter of course, I can report that the subframe has been replaced FOC by MB in Germany.
I have been sorting out an issue with Customer Services’ in Spain, France, Sweden and Romania, where Dealerships were trying to charge the owner to fit the new subframe, we took the issue to Senior Management in Germany, and it was resolved by them, and the Dealerships in Spain, France, Holland, Sweden and the Republic of Ireland have fitted the new subframes FOC, we are waiting for a reply from the owners in Romania, regarding the response from their dealerships. Ongoing.

Since I, and more recently, the BenzWorld Admin Team, placed Posts on MB Subframe Corrosion on the BenzWorld, Forum, there have been:

37000* Views of the R171/R231 Rear Subframe Post, resulting in 192 direct contacts from owners since 2021,

57000* Views of the W204/W218/W214, Rear Subframe Post, resulting in 325 direct contacts from these owners in the last 17 months,

25000* Views of the W203 Rear Subframe Post, in the 17 months it has been posted, there have now been 3 direct contacts from owners to date.

38000* Views of the W212 Rear Subframe Post, in the 17 months it has been up, there have been 20 contacts from owners to date.

3000* Views of the NEW R172 Polycarbonate Roof, Water Ingress/Paint/ Subframes post, in the last 5 months.

2000* Views of the R172 Rear Subframe Post, in the last 17 months resulting in 42 contacts 2 subframe collapses 3 subframes replaced FOC

3000* Views of the C/A207 Rear Subframe Post, in the last 6 months resulting in 3 contacts – one FOC subframe replacement

In-light of the email about a 2013, SL350 subframe collapsing due to corrosion, just 12 weeks after an MOT – Currently - 1 (BW) contact and, one subframe collapse. FOC replacement has been completed by MB.

* Approx. Numbers recorded by BenzWorld
NOTE: Since the last monthly report, BenzWorld Admins have been in contact with me and, they have now posted information on the various issues I cover, in the various Model (Chassis) sections on their sites, which will inform more owners of the safety and other issues and will enable more affected owners to be able to contact me for help and advice.

Dave Evans
dave@castellni.co.uk

 

Hi Folks, as you are aware, I record a serious amount of information on Rear Subframe corrosion issues. Looking at my data today, I have noticed a worrying trend regarding R171 rear subframes over the past month or so. I have recorded an increase in the number of R171 subframes that have collapsed and the percentages of collapsed subframes compared to owner just contacting me for the Information Sheets on subframe corrosion is at a level I find worrying - of the last 25 contacts, 9 have been subframe collapses. Can I ask that owners take any opportunity to get their subframes checked or inspected as one of my latest owners said that their car had “tried to kill them when the subframe collapsed going around a bend” Thank you for taking the time to read this and remember that I am here to help with the process. Speak to you soon, Dave Evans

 

Hi Folks, I have a serious issue to pass on to owners on the SLK Owners Club site and BenzWorld forum. This morning I received an email from one of my owners in the USA, and subsequently from Owners Club Members, they have received an invoice suppodidly from me, for helping them with the subframe issue

Please be aware that I do NOT charge for the help I give to owners so, if you receive an invoice DO NOT open the link that is in it. This is a scam and there could cause issues if you open any link!! Be Aware

Dave Evans

 

Hi Folks, I have a serious issue to pass on to owners on the SLK Owners Club site and BenzWorld forum. This morning I received an email from one of my owners in the USA, and subsequently from Owners Club Members, they have received an invoice suppodidly from me, for helping them with the subframe issue

Please be aware that I do NOT charge for the help I give to owners so, if you receive an invoice DO NOT open the link that is in it. This is a scam and there could cause issues if you open any link!! Be Aware

Dave Evans