Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was told that it was low on oil compression, that they had to put in 3.5 qts of oil (and still no go), so engine needs to be replaced, $4050 :eek:, TY.

This is my other car, Mazda Tribute 2006, 62000 miles. I apologize for asking this here, but this is the only forum I know that's cohesive and helpful (unless you can point me to a tribute one), but is that far fetched? Not 12 hours prior, it was running great, no CEL, no oil warning...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Kajtek1 you always come to the rescue.

It's a 2006 Tribute 4 cyl AWD. I'm not even sure if it was a mechanical spinning, just turned the key and swoosh, no click, no crank. OBD tells me pending P0606, PCM.

I don't know if they're trying to put the blame somewhere else, but they're trying to save me money by not saying it might be something else, spend the $$ and end up being something else. ...took them that long too...

What other info can I give you?

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,103 Posts
I was told that it was low on oil compression, that they had to put in 3.5 qts of oil (and still no go), so engine needs to be replaced, $4050 :eek:, TY.
Dearly Beloved.



For those who don't know me, my name is Mercedes mechanic. I want to say a few words in memory of this engine.


This Mazda has lived a un-remarkable life, one that has not inspired all other drivers to buy one. With a non-adventurous attitude, a broad range of gears, and his Japanese demeanor made him a terrible vehicle to drive. He never started, and was not generous with his power and comfort.

He always took an interest in the people that drove him: there were few people he wouldn't engage gears with at any time or place.

This vehicle pursued his many high speeds diligently, and always lost.

He was rapid in his approach to life. He especially had no horsepower when it came to the little things, always displaying check engine or SRS. Instead, he showed a great problems and was dishonored.

He extended this philosophy no matter what obstacle he faced. Be it speed bump or something in the road ahead. I have always hated this trait as it seem's to have been handed down.

The lack of strength of his character showed with every criticism. With a few wry squeaks, this body could be far more damning than most people could achieve with any strong language.

I'll miss the news of his strange adventures, and I'll miss the stories from the seven shops he visited; I'll miss the tales of evil Mercedes stable mate. Stories told again and again, in the same exacting detail with every telling.

I'll miss his windshield crack and his gentle blowing vented air, because the A/C didnt work.. I'll miss the surprising depth and scope of his mis-engineering. I'll miss the cold he extended to everyone he met in the winter.

I will miss this car being crushed dearly. But I will treasure the memory forever.



Amen. Father, Son, Holy Ghost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,633 Posts
There are not a lot of possibilities.

If it was that low on oil and did serious damage, the engine would be frozen, so when you hit the key you'd get the clunk and then a straining sound and then smoke from the starter.

Running it low on oil wouldn't end up making it spin freely, in other words. Quite the opposite.

And there is no such thing as "low oil compression". If that's what they told you (and you didn't misunderstand) then they're just making things up.

If you don't trust this shop, have it towed elsewhere for another opinion. Otherwise you're kind of stuck.

But if you need another engine I'd be sorely tempted to just get a used one.

And oil pressure and level warnings are not always 100% functional.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35,769 Posts
That thread reminds me AAMCO commercial, where people come to the shop and make all kind of funny noises trying to describe the problem.
Get a darn wrench and try to move crank with it. Than we can talk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
733 Posts
got to agree with all above. if it was really 3.5 qrts short the engine is toast. if the engine was toast then you would smoke the starter when you tried to start it. if you check the oil regularly then how likely is it that it was that short?

find a way to turn the crank. either a big wrench on the front or even a prybar at the bell housing through the hole to undo the TC bolts onto the ring gear on the flywheel. If the engine turns then you probably have a bad starter solenoid or a bad starter or more likely a bad battery
by the way the P0606 ECM / PCM Processor memory problems - can also be cause by low battery voltage.
cheers
Barri
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,508 Posts
If it turns out to be the engine then you may want to trade it in now for a new/relatively new car with payments or something. Value may be $9,000 less engine 4-5 grand equals 5 or 4 grand. Then less a transfer case at 2 or 3 grand now equals about 2-4 grand.

So if you could get $5,000 - $8,000 trade in the way is sits then it's time. My guess is that you will only get that on a relatively new vehicle with some mark-up in it.

Someone tried to tell me this when I had a Montero 10 years ago. Wish I would have listened as the first replaced engine lasted a few months, then another and then another. The last 2 were replaced under warranty and the engine company required their mechanic to install the 3rd one. But I did not have use of the thing for months and months.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,633 Posts
If it turns out to be the engine then you may want to trade it in now for a new/relatively new car with payments or something. Value may be $9,000 less engine 4-5 grand equals 5 or 4 grand. Then less a transfer case at 2 or 3 grand now equals about 2-4 grand.

So if you could get $5,000 - $8,000 trade in the way is sits then it's time. My guess is that you will only get that on a relatively new vehicle with some mark-up in it.

Someone tried to tell me this when I had a Montero 10 years ago. Wish I would have listened as the first replaced engine lasted a few months, then another and then another. The last 2 were replaced under warranty and the engine company required their mechanic to install the 3rd one. But I did not have use of the thing for months and months.
In part that's why I suggested a used engine if he needs that. It's a whole lot less money and you don't have the vagaries associated with the multitude of rebuilders.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
still so confused

after doing some research, I may have misheard, should be low oil pressure.
I have more things to try, but since it's in the shop, I won't be able to do them. Upon researching noises in youtube, it does sound like the starter is not engaging the flywheel, hence no crank. I read that IF the engine is seized, it can the starter can still spin, plus no clue yet about the PCM. I have AAA, but excess of 3 miles tow is still $12 (3 miles) plus tip. Most of the other places I've been recommended all tell me same ($4-$5K bill IF it's the engine), sounding like if it is, they don't want to get involved with it.


I've called Mazda USA, trying to determine what they can do (call dealer, offer assistance, etc).

Talking about numbers, if it costs me $4000, I'd get 3yr warranty on the engine, so without any other issue, I'd have the car for 8 years with some peace of mind that I know of its history. I would then get those extended warranty just in case. Ballpark, with interests (not including other maintenance repairs) $25000. After 3 years, hopefully I'd get $4 trade-in value, $21K/8 years= $220/mo. Similar lease might be $300/mo.

If I trade in now AND get $5000, that means I'd have paid $16000/5years = $270/mo. Obviously, it would probably only work as a trade in since they won't buy a non-working car? Which means I'd have to get another vehicle. Would have like to get a used one instead to continue the no monthly payment for a while ( Mercedes-Benz : M-Class Mercedes-Benz : M-Class | eBay )

Maybe I can get a written estimate, have a AAA authorized place at least match price and get 10% off service...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,633 Posts
after doing some research, I may have misheard, should be low oil pressure.
I have more things to try, but since it's in the shop, I won't be able to do them. Upon researching noises in youtube, it does sound like the starter is not engaging the flywheel, hence no crank. I read that IF the engine is seized, it can the starter can still spin, plus no clue yet about the PCM.
I'm not sure where you read that, but it's hogwash.

If the engine is seized, it won't turn. When you turn the key, the solenoid engages the bendix drive, which meshes with the flywheel or ring gear, then the starter motor tries to turn the bendix drive. If the engine is seized, you'll hear nothing but a rather loud thwack/clunk as the bendix drive slams into the flywheel/ring gear, and then just a groaning as the starter motor actually tries to turn.

If instead you turn the key and it's just "whirr, whirr" from the starter, that means it's not even trying to turn the engine. A malfunctioning solenoid can do just this and it tells you absolutely nothing about the engine.

As you note, it's not in your hands. But you can still ask them questions.

Like specifically, have they tried to turn the engine by hand (with the big wrench on the crank)?

If the starter is just spinning freely, how will the engine ever start or turn over anyway?

How do they know it has low oil pressure if it won't run? After all, every engine has zero oil pressure when it's off.

There are others, but those are the major ones.

BTW, the warranty is kind of a crapshoot. Sure it is there, but as cbc atl notes, his was in the shop all the time to have the engine replaced again and further repaired.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Hey guys, I was going to tow it out, but hook up was $75 from AAA since it's not an emergency (and that it's in a repair facility already). Luckily, dealership (service) closed before I got there, and car is already pushed outside. Canceled tow truck and recorded video:

Starts at 0:15 and 0:27
(noise inside) starts around 0:17

I guess long story short, if engine is bad, it can still make those noises?

Thanks again
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,633 Posts
Ahhh.

The good news: It's cranking over just fine. Engine is turning away, it's not seized.



The bad news: You have no compression.



It MIGHT be as simple as a jumped timing belt; overheating can do that. I don't know if it's a zero-clearance engine, though, and I don't hear hard parts colliding, which might mean there is no serious damage.

If you're not in a hurry for it, personally I'd drag it home and start in on the belt to see what's up.

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35,769 Posts
Sounds like engine turning to me as well.
Would be good idea to have one person observing the pulleys when other is cranking.
Than how do we know the shop checking the engine didn't pull the plugs out?
If you don't trust the shop, I would take somebody who knows how to do compression test and do it. Should be like 20 minutes job on 4-banger (?)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
*sniff* *sniff* really guys? I'm getting restless again. Frustrated that I'm stuck in the middle =( So, in summary, No loud cranking, but sounds like engine is turning away. That cranking sounds a lot quieter even when my phone is on top of the radiator (second sound is inside). If it was overheated (last drive time was less than half an hour), engine should be ok still?

Since the 06 have a timing chain instead of a belt, it couldn't be that?

...fingers crossed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,633 Posts
Kajtek1 makes a good point, they may have pulled the plugs.

And if you're sure it's a chain that's worse news, no way it would jump at that low mileage.

Go pick up a compression tester, you can probably borrow one from autozone for free and there are vids on youtube in how to use it.

If the plugs are out it will take five minutes.

Good luck, I'll keep my fingers crossed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,461 Posts
I was told that it was low on oil compression, that they had to put in 3.5 qts of oil (and still no go),
How did it get that low on oil? I think it only takes 4 quarts of oil.:eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,461 Posts
As far as I know, the Mazda engines are non-interference engines, that is, the valves will not hit the pistons if the belt/chain breaks.
I agree with the other posters that I would not trust the current workshop unless they can provide more proof. It could be as simple as a broken timing belt (I don't think Mazda uses a chain, but a belt requiring replacement every 80K), the PCM board (as the codes report) or even just a dead fuel pump.
Some of the check are very simple and does not require special tools. For example, if you take off the oil filler cap and shine a flashlight down the hole, you may be able to see the cams. Let somebody then turn the key to spin the engine and you may be able to see if the cams turn. Check if there is any spark when the starter is spinning the engine. To do that, pull a plug wire, insert an old (or new) plug and ground the plug on the engine. Then turn the key to spin the starter and see if the plug fires.

Actually, in spite of MM hilarious tribute and the one poster with 3(!) engine replacements, Mazda normally have very reliable and long-lasting engines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,633 Posts
It actually is a timing chain, Kobus.

My fingers are crossed that they removed the plugs. If the engine is turning and the plugs are in place, the other possibilities are pretty ugly.
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top