[C_R]

Are these just different names for the same POS system or are they different?

I am reading the owner's manuals for a 2005 E320, 2006 E350 and have just gotten confused as hell.

In the 2005 E, here is what it says about SBC:

"The SBC brake system combines a hydraulic brake circuit with electronically controlled brake servo assistance. You have increased braking safety and improved braking control."

In the 2006 E manual, here is what it says about EBS: (nothing is said about SBC)

"The EBS (Electrohydraulic Brake System) combines a hydraulic brake circuit with with electronically controlled brake servo assistance. You have increased braking safety and improved braking control."

Are these both the same thing with a different name in an attemp to sugar coat the same rotten system on the part of Mercedes?

I have also heard that some 2006 E350s did not have this. How would one determine if a particular E350-4matic has this or not? Car is 600+ miles away from me and the owner doesn't have a clue as to what this is. Car has 32k miles and brake flush was done at ~28k miles.

Also, if it is indeed the same system, does the 2006 System also appear to have the same problems with this system as the 2003-05 models?

 

[konigstiger]

MY03 - 06 equipped with SBC, eliminated as of MY07

 

[C_R]

MY03 - 06 equipped with SBC, eliminated as of MY07

So for 2006, Mercedes is just calling it a different name? From "SBC" (2003-05) to "EBS" (for 2006)? Same crappy troublesome system?

 

[Mercedes mechanic]

Are these just different names for the same POS system or are they different?


SBC brake system combines a hydraulic brake circuit with electronically controlled brake servo assistance. You have increased braking safety and improved braking control."

EBS (Electrohydraulic Brake System) combines a hydraulic brake circuit with with electronically controlled brake servo assistance. You have increased braking safety and improved braking control."

Are these both the same thing with a different name in an attemp to sugar coat the same rotten system?

Sensotronic Brake Control, (SBC), the system no longer relies on the driver to produce hydraulic pressure. The brake pedal is connected to the computer (ECU) by wire (brake-by-wire). The sensors on the brake pedal will inform the computer how the pedal is pressed, eg how far, how fast etc. The computer will then dissipate the required force to each wheel via modulators.

SBC Incorporates these Functions: ABS (Anti lock Brakes 1984)
+ ASR (Automatic Slip Regulation 1991)
+ ETS (Electronic Traction System 1995)
+ ESP (Electronic Stability Program 1996)
+ BAS (Brake Assist System 1998)

Offers safety-relevant additional functions such as


1. Dry braking of the brake disks under wet conditions

2. Pre-charging (overcoming play)

The system is operational as soon as it is "woken" i.e. as soon as signals from the door contact switches, the trunk switch, the stop lamp switch, or the remote control indicate that the driver may possibly apply the brakes.
In order to prevent the system switching off when the vehicle is rolling (e.g. rolling downhill or traffic jam situation) with the ignition switched off, in addition a signal is transmitted which displays the vehicle standstill.
After "waking" the SBC carries out the self-test (Pre-Drive Check). What is checked is the reservoir pressure and this is corrected, if necessary. In addition, the pressure sensors and the control valves are checked and various leak and operational checks performed. Constant and alternating self-tests are also carried out while driving.

Pressure is built up in the brake system during the Pre-Drive Check, in order to prevent the pistons in the brake calipers moving out unintentionally (e.g. when changing the brake pads), the system must be deactivated using the diagnosis tool when working on the brake system.
The actuation of the brake by the driver is conveyed electronically to the SBC control units via two pedal value sensors. The brake pressures calculated are metered individually to the individual wheel brakes by the SBC hydraulic units. The hydraulic energy required for this is supplied by two high pressure reservoirs which are each supplied with pressure by a high-pressure charging pump.






If faults exist in the electro-hydraulic system, the hydraulic link between brake pedal and wheel is automatically restored.






The Sensotronic Brake Control (SBC) contains the following system relationships:
The ESP control unit takes priority over the SBC control units.
The three control units are interlinked by their own CAN data bus.
The SBC control units convey data on the braking of the driver requirement and on the pressures in the system to the ESP control unit. There, the specified pressures required are calculated and transmitted to the SBC control units. In the SBC control units the pressures for the braking control are then set and the actual pressures signaled back.



Electrohydraulic brake system:


A braking system is provided which, in a preferred embodiment, includes a master cylinder having a bore with first and second diameters, a first piston slidably mounted within the master cylinder having a first periphery sealed with the bore first diameter and a second periphery sealed with the bore second diameter, the first piston establishing within the master cylinder bore a first pressure chamber between the first and second sealed peripheries and a second pressure chamber between the first piston second sealed periphery and the bore closed end, the first piston also having a central bore exposed to the second pressure chamber, first and second fluid lines joining the first and second pressure chambers with the wheel brake, a second piston slidably sealably inserted within the first piston bore, the second piston having a flange and having limiting displacement away from the bore closed end, a spring captured between the first piston and the second piston flange, a pressure sensor to determine the pressure within the second pressure chamber, a solenoid valve located in the second fluid line closing upon a signal delivered by actuation of the second piston, and an electrically powered actuator coupled to the first fluid line to modulate the pressure within the wheel brake in response to a signal given by the pressure sensor.



Wait until your in traffic and the system lock's the brake's for two second while in the middle of a 90* turn.


Good thing about the system is it uses ASR (Automatic Slip Regulation), ETS Electronic Traction System) ,ESP (Electronic Stability Program), BAS (Brake Assist System) to help turn the car around (straight) if your going spinning around at 30 or above.

 

[C_R]

Sensotronic Brake Control, (SBC), the system no longer relies on the driver to produce hydraulic pressure. The brake pedal is connected to the computer (ECU) by wire (brake-by-wire). The sensors on the brake pedal will inform the computer how the pedal is pressed, eg how far, how fast etc. The computer will then dissipate the required force to each wheel via modulators.

SBC Incorporates these Functions: ABS (Anti lock Brakes 1984)
+ ASR (Automatic Slip Regulation 1991)
+ ETS (Electronic Traction System 1995)
+ ESP (Electronic Stability Program 1996)
+ BAS (Brake Assist System 1998)

Offers safety-relevant additional functions such as


1. Dry braking of the brake disks under wet conditions

2. Pre-charging (overcoming play)

The system is operational as soon as it is "woken" i.e. as soon as signals from the door contact switches, the trunk switch, the stop lamp switch, or the remote control indicate that the driver may possibly apply the brakes.
In order to prevent the system switching off when the vehicle is rolling (e.g. rolling downhill or traffic jam situation) with the ignition switched off, in addition a signal is transmitted which displays the vehicle standstill.
After "waking" the SBC carries out the self-test (Pre-Drive Check). What is checked is the reservoir pressure and this is corrected, if necessary. In addition, the pressure sensors and the control valves are checked and various leak and operational checks performed. Constant and alternating self-tests are also carried out while driving.

Pressure is built up in the brake system during the Pre-Drive Check, in order to prevent the pistons in the brake calipers moving out unintentionally (e.g. when changing the brake pads), the system must be deactivated using the diagnosis tool when working on the brake system.
The actuation of the brake by the driver is conveyed electronically to the SBC control units via two pedal value sensors. The brake pressures calculated are metered individually to the individual wheel brakes by the SBC hydraulic units. The hydraulic energy required for this is supplied by two high pressure reservoirs which are each supplied with pressure by a high-pressure charging pump.






If faults exist in the electro-hydraulic system, the hydraulic link between brake pedal and wheel is automatically restored.






The Sensotronic Brake Control (SBC) contains the following system relationships:
The ESP control unit takes priority over the SBC control units.
The three control units are interlinked by their own CAN data bus.
The SBC control units convey data on the braking of the driver requirement and on the pressures in the system to the ESP control unit. There, the specified pressures required are calculated and transmitted to the SBC control units. In the SBC control units the pressures for the braking control are then set and the actual pressures signaled back.



Electrohydraulic brake system:


A braking system is provided which, in a preferred embodiment, includes a master cylinder having a bore with first and second diameters, a first piston slidably mounted within the master cylinder having a first periphery sealed with the bore first diameter and a second periphery sealed with the bore second diameter, the first piston establishing within the master cylinder bore a first pressure chamber between the first and second sealed peripheries and a second pressure chamber between the first piston second sealed periphery and the bore closed end, the first piston also having a central bore exposed to the second pressure chamber, first and second fluid lines joining the first and second pressure chambers with the wheel brake, a second piston slidably sealably inserted within the first piston bore, the second piston having a flange and having limiting displacement away from the bore closed end, a spring captured between the first piston and the second piston flange, a pressure sensor to determine the pressure within the second pressure chamber, a solenoid valve located in the second fluid line closing upon a signal delivered by actuation of the second piston, and an electrically powered actuator coupled to the first fluid line to modulate the pressure within the wheel brake in response to a signal given by the pressure sensor.



Wait until your in traffic and the system lock's the brake's for two second while in the middle of a 90* turn.


Good thing about the system is it uses ASR (Automatic Slip Regulation), ETS Electronic Traction System) ,ESP (Electronic Stability Program), BAS (Brake Assist System) to help turn the car around (straight) if your going spinning around at 30 or above.

Thank you. Is the 2006 system (EBS) as bad as the 2003-05 system (SBC)? Same type of problems? Or was the 2006 system drastically improved? As far as everyday driving, what is the difference between the 2 one would feel?

Regards

 

[Noodles]

It is the same system. You won't feel a difference.

The stories about the SBC system have been grossly overblown.

If they have the wiring connector recall done the percentage of failure is infinitesimally small
compared to the millions of cars so cars that have them.

What have yours done to you to make you loathe the SBC brakes so much?

Sell the car if you think they are that bad.

 

[C_R]

It is the same system. You won't feel a difference.

The stories about the SBC system have been grossly overblown.

If they have the wiring connector recall done the percentage of failure is infinitesimally small
compared to the millions of cars so cars that have them.

What have yours done to you to make you loathe the SBC brakes so much?

Sell the car if you think they are that bad.

Thanks for the reply. I don't have one (yet) and am researching this system (Looking at a doctor-owned cherry 4-matic with all services done before time from dealer and all services current). I have a 2000 E 320. I guess that after all the research I was just scared of the SBC. So many people say to avoid it like the plaque. So I am trying to learn all about it to know what I would be getting myself into.

 

[Roadking999]

Mine works great. The stopping capability is nothing short of amazing. It is very reliable. The unit in my car is covered under warranty until 2016. The function did not change from earlier years but there was a part number change on the unit, The unit itself has changed from 0054317912 TO 0054319612 TO 0054317312 TO 0054318112, the last one being mostly 05's and 06's.

 

[C_R]

Mine works great. The stopping capability is nothing short of amazing. It is very reliable. The unit in my car is covered under warranty until 2016. The function did not change from earlier years but there was a part number change on the unit, The unit itself has changed from 0054317912 TO 0054319612 TO 0054317312 TO 0054318112, the last one being mostly 05's and 06's.

Thank you!

 

[C_R]

Is the SBC the same for the 2005 E55 AMG as well compared to the 2005 E320s and 2006 E350s. Does anyone know the replacement cost of this part if and when one would need it replaced out of warranty? Thanks!

 

[Noodles]

Warranty is 10 years and it is the same unit. If the pump or pump motor fail
a dealer has to fix it at no cost to you.

 

[Pete '06 E320 CDI]

It's a complicated system, but does it ever perform! You can literally stop the car on a dime. Between the very efficient braking, the brake drying feature when it rains and the stability control system, I am very impressed. The only dark cloud is the unknown factor of having to deal with a complex system. In emergency situations, it senses the speed at which you went from the gas pedal to the brake pedal and opens the valves so the brakes are applied full force. The thing to watch is the car following you as it most likely does not have the SBC braking system!

This braking system is just like a normal braking system. Some people say that you should disable it before replacing the brake pads, but that's not true. Once the car is locked, the braking system will not go into test mode unless the doors are opened or the car is unlocked. All you have to do is lock the car and take the keys out of your pocket so you don't hit the unlock button and you are good to go. Other thing to do is to change the brake fluid every 2 years. You can do this with a pressure bleeder and it works just fine. There is a purge cycle that is initiated every time you start the car and it will recirculate any brake fluid that is remaining back to the reservoir. Overall this is a very good system in my opinion. Just enjoy it and drive.

 

[2004E320]

I have only had my car for a year and half, but haven't had any problems with it. As other's said, combined with ABS it's almost scary how fast it stops your car. I've had a couple of mid 90's BMW's and these brakes are a definite improvement.

 

[FWhite]

I think SBS was dropped from the E class as a cost saving move. My wifes 09 SL has it. It seems like if it was an issue MB would have dropped it on the high end cars too. I have never had a problem with my 06 E.

 

[Noodles]

I agree it was a cost saving move.

They had the bugs worked out and all updates done to earlier cars by the time they dropped
it for the 07 MY. I know MB got a ton of complaints, but the system is sound. So a lot
of people would argue that they dropped it due to complaints. If that were the case
they would not have continued to use it on cars 3 more years that cost more than
the W211.

 

[mescaline]

I got a couple of times red warning "Reduced braking power" and the brake pedal was totally worthless, no brakes at all. Every time i got the warning was right after starting the car so I never experienced any uncomfortable situation (thank God) but I can't help but wonder how unpleasant it would be if my brakes stopped working when coming to a crowded street or something.

I think either my battery is getting weaker or there is a problem with brake switch or something. Restarting the car fixes it directly.

 

[Noodles]

How many miles are you at? If it is a lot of stop and go driving the stop cycle counter could be past its threshold and they will replace the pump at no charge in the UK.

 

[mescaline]

180 000km and yes a lots of city driving.

 

[whodean]

I got a couple of times red warning "Reduced braking power" and the brake pedal was totally worthless, no brakes at all. Every time i got the warning was right after starting the car so I never experienced any uncomfortable situation (thank God) but I can't help but wonder how unpleasant it would be if my brakes stopped working when coming to a crowded street or something.

I had exactly this happen to me with my 2005 E500 the other day, driving down the road and the pedal wouldn't do a thing, had to stomp down really hard to stop within a block. Luckily I was on a residential street with no traffic. Dealership fixed today at no cost (well out of warranty), the ticket says "hydraulic fault".

I can only imagine what would have happened if there was a car in front of me or I was driving faster.

 

[Noodles]

Actually within warranty for the SBC pump which is 10 years. The new car warranty had nothing to do with it being expired.