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02 G500
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Discussion Starter #1
Replaced

1) spark plug wires for two cylinders, Plugs, and ignition coils,

2) Transfercase leak, Bottom bolt threads where stripped from factory, Replaced botl, relocktited, and topped off fluids.

3) Automatic door locks,
Replaced Inner door pannel on drivers door, Lerft rear door lathc assembly, left rear door latch, mircoswitch and lock assembley

4) Transfer case stuck in HI,
Switch was not hooked back up from last dealer.

5) Random brake fluid message.
Checked for leaks none found, However fluid was a tad bit low which on hard cornering could trip the light. Topped off fluids.

6) Steering wheel is off,
Took wheel off shaft and centered it up, also performed a 4 wheel alignment.

7) Illuminated door sill,
electrical fault in door sill, relay replaced.

8) CD player will not eject cds.
Cd are out of tolerance for thinckness.

9) traction light blinks a lot even with stock tire.
Steering wheel was off center cause faulty signals, Also did a 4 wheel alignment. tested and seem to fix problem. As stated in owners manual, excessive speed while turning will also illuminate ESP triangle.


So 300 miles later, still no problems. I have no clue how long i have had the plug problems. For ever the car has averaged 13.2 on the highway at 80mph. On the way home at 80mph the computer said it was getting 14.4 mph. I also learned that the bigger tires are off more than i thought. 70 mph is actulley 77, 80mph is 90, 90mph i have no clue becuase the guy fallowing me was in our 04 2500 GMC and it shuts off at 103.

Anyway long story short im very happy with the dealer this time. the car runs 10 times better, gets better gas milage, and is not all over the road on the freeway. Also if you give it a lot of gas from a red light it spinns the front tires which it has never done before unless you where truning in the rain. They also suggested i run mid grade gas instead of premuim. Something about the good gas cost to much and people dont buy it, So it sets in the tanks to long and cause problems.
 

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G 500, 55K
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486 Posts
I truly hope this is the beginning of a "beautiful friendship". If it is not asking too much, could tell us the name of the dealer who missed the myriad problems. I think it is unforgiveable that you were given the car back with the tranfer case switch not hooked up. Other issues aside, this is gross negligence and is to be rewarded by all your "board" friends avoiding that dealer like the plague. Similarly I would hope if you drove to NYC and had some trouble you would avoid the NYC dealer in favor of some of the other less convenient dealers.
 

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TJs, FJ40s, JGCs, G500
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Kerr,

Your list has a few suspicious items.


2. Bottom bolt thread stripped from factory? They are pulling your leg. Housing material is softer than he bolt. Housing would be damaged before bolt will. More likely, they spotted a leak and decided to tighten the bolts and pulled one of them - that might mean the damaged your housing (a $5000 claim). Have them proof to you what they did.

6. When the steering wheel is off the cause is always within the steering geometry. On the G500 one of the common causes is a bent panhard rod (technical bulletin 33.15/19). Only a moron would reposition the steering wheel. It would only mask the underlying problem. And of course the misaligned steering triggers ESP!
Let me guess - the steering was off to the right?
Performed 4 wheel alignment? There is nothing to be aligned. All one could do is adjust the toe in. Well, you could measure all 4 wheels and off values will indicate bent axles, bent steering gear, lose bushings etc.

8. See 6. ESP blinks a lot when steering is off (bent components) - could be drag link (not much likely), could be panhard rod (likely), could be tie rod (possible, but very unlikely). ESP blinks with steering off, because it gives the steering sensor a false value. To one side it measures a tighter turn than you do - and the gyro reports a wider turn than steering reports (understeer)so ESP corrects. To the other side the steering sensor measures a wider turn than you do - and the gyro reports a tighter turn than steering reports (oversteer)so ESP corrects.
That should be a no brainer even to a novice mechanic.

Also, if your speed is off by 10% due to larger tires your mpg is actually 1o% better (you are traveling 10% more miles than what the computer calculates).

Harald
 

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02 G500
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Discussion Starter #4
yea i thought some of it was strange, But because the new dealer in Knoxville tn, actulley made the car so i can drive home with nothing messing up. I just figured my old dealer (Rick Hill Improts in Kingsport Tn) probably did it wrong to begin with. I had the G in several time for the steering wheel which if i remember correctly was straight until they did the Stabalizer replacement at 17K miles. The new dealer said it was on the shaft wrong. Not sure what that means but it sounds like they took the wheel off and put back on stright.

As for the bolt i have been watching and noticed it was leaking, however there is a nice rock scrap on the bolt and t case( very bottom one) So i dont know if I damaged the bolt and they where just nice and replaced it or if there was a problem. The leak is not to where it dripps or that you would even know if you didnt look under it. Just the bottom of the case has extra gunk (oil/dirt)on it. I would think that they would tell me if i had a cracked case, I get the feeling the owner of this mb dealer ship is not worried about gettin a bonus for low warranty calmes. One of the sales man said they are moving about 30 cars a week. They only had one G on the lot and it was a trade on a G55K, They also have 300 new cars. There was even a 300SL goldwing getting some work done! As for the alignment i ask the lady on the phone when i paid for the it about how they aligned it because the shops here said the is no adjustments. She said there are a few adjustment but not like on a new car. She also went on to tell me how far my something was off but i didnt write it down. All i know is before it shook like crazy and sucked to drive. now it drives like a new truck. Total bill was $100.00 $18.00 for the steering wheel and $80 for the alignment.
 

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2004 G500 (gone)
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Wow, Kerr that's a long list of improvements! About the steering column... how can you be sure your steering was off center? I want to make sure that nothing is wrong with mine before I decide to make the trip to the dealer.

I was looking at some other G500 interior pictures online (the FOR SALE ones) and their steerings look pushed to the right rather than being in the center.

Hey I'm glad to hear that your truck drives much better. [:)]
 

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If the steering on a G500 is slightly off to the right the panhard rod is bent (common problem on many G500). A stronger panhard is vailable A4633330301.
The dealer is supposed to replace the panhard when the steering is off and the panhard is shorter than 760 mm.
 

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stupid Daimler Chrysler....

Harald, if the panhard rod is bent just a little, although it would be a bandaid (not solving the real problem), they can probably perform an alignment to correct for that yes? THe panhard rod is what is used to adjust "toe" correct? The only problem is that it will be increasingly succeptible to future damage/bending.

If it is bent, i could imagine, the do the alignment, then the steering wheel is off...

What makes g500 more sensitive to this? 18" rims transmit more shock to the steering system?


Kerr! Congratulations of finding a good dealer. Makes me think part of the problem with most "lemons" is the dealer and not the vehicle. Maybe the reality is that Lemon Laws protect individuals from bad dealers more than bad cars.


How stupid!... regarding someones post about a dealer not getting bonuses for low warranttee claims... How backward of DC!!! Get your dealers to jerk the customer around so the dealer makes a little money in the short term. What happens in a few years when nobody wants to buy that brand anymore because the customer thinks they got an unserviceable lemon... when all they got was bad service from a dealer? What you get is MB's sales figures instead of Lexus/infinity/acura. There's a really worth-while cost saver.
 

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2000 G500 NMLE
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Panhard, Tie & Track Rods

ewalberg - 5/2/2005 7:40 PM

Harald, if the panhard rod is bent just a little, although it would be a bandaid (not solving the real problem), they can probably perform an alignment to correct for that yes? THe panhard rod is what is used to adjust "toe" correct? The only problem is that it will be increasingly succeptible to future damage/bending.
Actually, it's either the tie rod or track rod (the one behind the axle and between the hubs) that's used to adjust the toe-in and the other one (the one in front of the axle that runs between the steering box and the right hub) is used to center the wheel. (I always mix up which name is which.)

The Panhard may have to do with the pulling to the right problem, which is fairly common on the G500. Pulling to the right and steering wheel not centered are two different problems.
 

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RE: Panhard, Tie & Track Rods

The panhard centers the axle in its correct position under the frame. If it is bent (shorter) your axle moves slightly to the left. Left tire will stick out more than the right. That will push the drag link towards the steering box - making the steering wheel turn right.
To correct this the drag link can be adjusted (shortened) but it does not solve the problem of the bent panhard (it might bend more). By the way, off center steering is always corrected by adjusting th drag link - never by reositioning th steering wheel (what moron mechanics would do that?).

Cause for bent panhards is the extreme weight of the new engines (remember, the G was originally designed for much smaller engines) wider tires (more traction = resistance) and the tendency of most drivers to steer when the vehicle is not moving. Steering at standstill is the number one cause for bent and broken steering gear whe off-road. I personally never steer unless the vehicle is rolling (less tire resistance).
I understand that most drivers want to be able to turning the steering at any time (tight parking etc.) - that's why they are now installing a stronger panhard.

Toe in is adjusted with the tie rod (behind the axle).
 

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RE: Panhard, Tie & Track Rods

4x4abc - 5/2/2005 7:20 PM

Cause for bent panhards is the extreme weight of the new engines (remember, the G was originally designed for much smaller engines) wider tires (more traction = resistance) and the tendency of most drivers to steer when the vehicle is not moving. Steering at standstill is the number one cause for bent and broken steering gear whe off-road. I personally never steer unless the vehicle is rolling (less tire resistance).
I understand that most drivers want to be able to turning the steering at any time (tight parking etc.) - that's why they are now installing a stronger panhard.

Toe in is adjusted with the tie rod (behind the axle).
Interesting you mention this. I park in tight spaces all the time. Really early in my G ownership I noticed some resistance in the steering when at a dead stop. I started trying to allow the car to move before turning the wheel. Takes a bit of getting used to but now I almost plan my parking/garage movements w/o even thinking about it. I never really had a good reason, just made sense.
 

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Lemon vs. Bad Dealer

ewalberg - 5/2/2005 6:40 PM

Kerr! Congratulations of finding a good dealer. Makes me think part of the problem with most "lemons" is the dealer and not the vehicle. Maybe the reality is that Lemon Laws protect individuals from bad dealers more than bad cars.

Well said, I agree. Not sure who to blame (dealer vs. corporate) but the learning curve on this truck seems to be pretty steep and the techs weren't properly trained. A lot of my rework was fixing problems that were 100% the result of something buggered up at the dealership or in the 1st owners 13,000 miles. My first several trips to a dealer were a disaster (some in Seattle some local). Finally my service advisor would only allow certain techs touch my truck and about the same time the # of Gs increased enough that they gained better experience. I'm lucky - I live in a town with a lot of Gs. I'd be pretty worried taking my now perfect G to a small dealership that probably has only seen a few at best.
 

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RE: Panhard, Tie & Track Rods

given the state of affairs of Kerr's truck before he took it too the new dealership, it's entirely possible the previous dealer moved the steering wheel inappropriately, and is now corrected given that it drives properly now... BUT, i would double check the panhard per Haralds direction if i were Kerr to verify their work.

Harald, I wonder if you really need that tool to check it properly... is it measuring between pin centers?

Interestingly enough, the shop i take my truck to for tire rotate and aligment (they appear to be one of the best in the area... for one they double check their work) noted that the ball joint right where the #9 is on your diagram is already starting to get a little loose on my truck again, after replacing the drag link about 20k miles ago. Not ready for replacement they said but a little looser than the others. They said it's the most abused ball joint in the system which makes sense. Maybe i'm having a little too much fun driving fast over bumps and on dirt roads... now that i think about it, probably 3-5 times i've curbed that wheel pretty bad pulling out of parking spaces... haven't hit the rim though (fingers crossed).

I'll put that beefed up panhard rod number in my part number collection for future reference. I'm pulling a little to the right, but we figure it's from the tires being on their last leg after 30k miles. Maybe i'll check the panhard while at it.
 

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RE: Panhard, Tie & Track Rods

4x4abc - 5/2/2005 7:20 PM
Cause for bent panhards is the extreme weight of the new engines (remember, the G was originally designed for much smaller engines)......
What does a M113 V8 weigh? With the all aluminum block (I think) and other components wouldn't it actually weigh less than many of the engines in the 26 years of G engine options? Probably not the 4 bangers, but what about some of the bigger iron block 6s? I'm guessing the 93 500GE would have the heaviest engine.
 

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RE: Panhard, Tie & Track Rods

I don't know when the new panhard came out - I learned about the panhard trouble and its fixes earlier this year. However, the problem must have been known a long time since "checking for a bent panhard" was already part of the 2002 MBUSA mechanics training.

Erik,

you can use any appropriate tool to measure the panhard (from center pin to center pin).
I have never experienced lose tie rod ends on any of my G.

Harald
 

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RE: Panhard, Tie & Track Rods

I aquired a used OM617 5 cyl diesel last spring. As I passed a truck scale on my way I decided to try to determine the engine and gearbox weight. I found out that that the engine and 5-speed Getrag were about 340 kg all togheter, of which the gearbox would propably not be more than 20 kg. Now that IS a heavy 5 cyl engine!
 

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Panhard Rod Part Number

4x4abc - 5/2/2005 7:01 PM

If the steering on a G500 is slightly off to the right the panhard rod is bent (common problem on many G500). A stronger panhard is vailable A4633330301.
The dealer is supposed to replace the panhard when the steering is off and the panhard is shorter than 760 mm.
Interesting! My EPC dated 11/2003 shows the latest rod as P/N: A.463.330.07.07. Your part number is not listed in the DCAG online database.
 

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1979 G460
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I agree that the problem is with the panhard arm. I had the same problem with the steering wheel when I did the lift (much more extreme). When I welded in the drop bracket for the panhard arm to correct the length the tires went back into the intended position as did the steering wheel. I am somewhat suprised that I have not seen more on this topic due to the fact that the driver side wheel will most likely be rubbing on the arms and the passenger tire sticks out much further.

Another problem that I found is that if you have old bushings there is some travel in the panhard arm.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
mine has always done the hard steering when stopped, you can almost not turn it,
Now that you mentioned the steering wheel, when at full lock to the right or left, with the wheel locked and your hands at 12 and 6, you could turn the wheel to 10-11 on top and 5-4 on the bottom but the actual front wheel didnt move.

I dont know what all they have fixed over the years now, I have lost count but i can post my vin and if any of you have access to the computer that will tell what was done feel free.

As for the warranty / bonus. I dont know if its true or not with mercedes. BUT there was a guy by the name of BOB Berry that worked at the toyota dealer. He declined almost ever warranty problem. You remember 98-00 the brake problems on the Tundras, people would be back to the dealer with burned up pads and callipers in less that 6K miles and he voided most clames. When i ask some firends that worked there what his problem was ( he didnt cover ANYTHING under warranty for me on 98 supra turb, all little suff like check engine, broekn spedo, had a water leak in the targa) they said toyota has a $10,000.00 reaginal bonus for the service manager with the lowes warranty clames. Needless to say in a year he about made this local toyota dealer go out of business. Bob was let go in 01 i think and the dealer still has not gotten 80% of there business back in service. Like i said might not be true with mb. Also on the lemon stuff i think that depens on the region, and dealer. I mean you surf ebay a lot there are always at least 10 cars on there with buy backs. They come from large citys and its always pitty stuff. A lot of them are nav/radio problem, i have also seen a few amg car with motor problem bought back because they where not fixed in a X number of days. But those of us who have had problms for ever cant even get anyone one the phone who cares...
 
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