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Discussion Starter #1
I'm not an authority on anything, especially fuel. Last week I went up to the house that has #2 oil in the tank and snatched 5 galllons, added to the tank and came home 175 miles. Unless someone can explain why I shouldn't,
(beyond be pulled over and inspected then ticketed for un-taxed fuel)I'll be sticking to my $1.80 a gal. #2. It's costing $2.40 and up here and each week crude hits a new high. I'm ready to make a deal with the superintendent in the city to sell 10 gallons at a time.
I don't have Bio fuel available as far as I know but when folks start posting about forming co-ops it's time for serious consideration. I'm in NYC for interested parties. Also have a place to cook the stuff up, in Broome County.
Happy Easter y'all
 

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i wouldnt make it obvious when you are doing it, i dont know who but someone might say something... gas prices are becoming re-goddamn-diculous and im starting to seriously look into vegtable oil
 

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This sounds like the perfect opportunity to ask about something I thought about yesterday. I read earlier that diesels greatly benifit from a small ammount of ATF in the fuel. Not that it would help deter the cost of fuel, but how bad would it be to burn our used motor oil in our engines? Say, adding a gallon or two to a full tank of fuel? Would the used motor oil mix with the diesel? Would it harm injectors, ruin glowplugs, or otherwise damage the engine?
On another note, if anybody has friends that frequently use turkey friers, it's perfectly fine to put that used oil in your fuel tank after pouring it through cheesecloth.
 

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I read a post once (can't remember if it was here or not) by someone who strained used motor oil and put it in an MB diesel. It turns out, it's a bad idea - there are tiny metal particles (too tiny to easily strain out) that will ravage the engine.
 

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Stevenpfaff, your kidding about the turkey frier oil, right? I was told all food oil still had to be processed before burning in diesels.
 

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Just picked up a 81 240d 155k miles to practice on doing the 2 tank conversion to waste veg oil before doing it to my 83 300td waggon. I just read last night how to increase miles per gallon by 22% check it out. http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/ Lowes has it for $9.47gal = $.15 for 2oz added to 10 gal diesel. KHB1
 

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1983 240D auto..soon to run a generator in the country.1984 300D turbo 4 spd
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Discussion Starter #8
Clocked the pump @ $2.52 this afternoon. Used to drive for a living but I've never heard of a civilian in a passenger vehicle being pulled over. Don't know the demographics but I assume diesel cars are in the low percentile in the States. We can certainly use #2throughout the summer. I'm told by a friend who owned a small oil company they ran their trucks on #2 all the time. Heard it has a higher BTU rating as well. Oh yeah, forgot to mention, I'm running an '83 240D with a K&N 14" air filter on top of my stock aluminum filter cowl.
Allows max breathing and only visable exhaust is under hard acceleration at night in the headlights of a following vehicle. Anyway will keep you informed and anyone who know of the regulations about storing 1000 or mor gals. of B100, please post the info. Lots of farmers and truckers will be more open minded about blending and converting at these prices.
Please send me links:
[email protected]
 

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1983 240D auto..soon to run a generator in the country.1984 300D turbo 4 spd
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Discussion Starter #9
KHB1,
The acetone article is going to keep me up tonight.
The numbers are what the doctor ordered along with cheap #2 fuel oil for now.
Keep us posted.
 

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RoyH - 3/23/2005 9:02 AM

I'm not an authority on anything, especially fuel. Last week I went up to the house that has #2 oil in the tank and snatched 5 galllons, added to the tank and came home 175 miles. Unless someone can explain why I shouldn't,
(beyond be pulled over and inspected then ticketed for un-taxed fuel)I'll be sticking to my $1.80 a gal. #2. It's costing $2.40 and up here and each week crude hits a new high. I'm ready to make a deal with the superintendent in the city to sell 10 gallons at a time.
I don't have Bio fuel available as far as I know but when folks start posting about forming co-ops it's time for serious consideration. I'm in NYC for interested parties. Also have a place to cook the stuff up, in Broome County.
Happy Easter y'all
since it's illegal to run untaxed heating fuel in your car.. it might be an idea to keep a can of ATF in the trunk to explain away your 'red' fuel if/when you get stopped / checked by the feds. sincerely think it's unlikely in NYC though, lol.

you can run used engine oil through if it's filtered well enough. plus afterward it's filtered again by mr bosch and mr. hengst before it reaches you IP and injectors.




[:p]
 

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Hi,
Just wanted to offer a word of caution on the acetone article cited above. I'm not terribly expert on diesel fuels, but have worked with acetone quite a bit in the lab. I would wait to hear from someone with professional expertise on this before I add any to my tank. Acetone can be very hard on many elastomers (o-rings, gaskets, etc.) and hard plastic items. Swelling is only one symptom - elastomers can lose their resiliancy and their tensil strength. I don't know for a fact that acetone will do this to the seals and o-rings on my 123 - but I'd want to make sure it doesn't before I started adding it to my tank.
DT
 

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lancer - 3/23/2005 10:33 PM

Stevenpfaff, your kidding about the turkey frier oil, right? I was told all food oil still had to be processed before burning in diesels.
No, I'm very serious about the used frier oil. You could run straight WVO if you had a two tank system. Without the two tank system you can easily run 20% WVO, provided it's filtered, without any problems.

About burning used motor oil...is there a safe limit? I imagine I wouldn't want more than about 15% of my fuel supply to be UMO, but would there be any poor side effects? I don't plan to run a steady supply, however I do own several vehicles and change my oil fairly regularly. I've never actually figured out how much oil I discard, but I would estimate I empty my 15Qt. container every three months or so. Should I add anything to my fuel when/if I add UMO?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'll give you a disgusting analogy.
In the desert without water you'd be tempted to drink your own urine but rarely any other time. I can find uses for my used motor oil but not in my fuel tank. On the farm I propably have 2 to 3 gals. of used oil that will end up as an accelerant or coating the under side of some piece of equipment. Mileage and cost effectiveness are my concerns, not what to do with used oil.
 

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RoyH - 3/25/2005 9:43 AM

I'll give you a disgusting analogy.
In the desert without water you'd be tempted to drink your own urine but rarely any other time. I can find uses for my used motor oil but not in my fuel tank. On the farm I propably have 2 to 3 gals. of used oil that will end up as an accelerant or coating the under side of some piece of equipment. Mileage and cost effectiveness are my concerns, not what to do with used oil.
since you have a farm then you must have plenty of offroad diesel avail....
on the other hand it's not illegal to burn used engine oil[8]
on the other other hand i saw diesel here today for $2.45/gal..hmmm.. [8][8]
 

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RoyH - 3/25/2005 8:43 AM

I'll give you a disgusting analogy.
In the desert without water you'd be tempted to drink your own urine but rarely any other time. I can find uses for my used motor oil but not in my fuel tank. On the farm I propably have 2 to 3 gals. of used oil that will end up as an accelerant or coating the under side of some piece of equipment. Mileage and cost effectiveness are my concerns, not what to do with used oil.
I am equally concerned with my environment as I am with my fuel economy and cost. I am also concerned with my independance on oil in general. I know that UMO can be recycled, but recycling consumes energy that ultimatly comes from fossil fuels. Therefore I don't care what else I can do with my used oil because if I can consume it then I feel like I am doing something good for my planet. Eventually all my vehicles will be run on fuel that I produce at home; either B100 for diesel, or a combination of ethanol and B15 for my gas engines. I guess you could say this topic is piggybacking on yours, they just go hand in hand.
 

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Using synthetic oil avoids supporting foreign oil, and using AMSOIL or the like will avoid supporting foreign oil companies such as Haliburton or other large oil companies.

Also, there are better ways to recycle motor oil. Using it in an oil burner to heat your domestic hot water would be an improvement over natural gas or electricity; both of which depend on unrenewable sources (unless you run photovoltaic panels, or water heating panels).

On other notes: yes you can run diesels on UMO and crude WVO. You can also get it to run on Coca-Cola for about 1 block. WVO doesn't in itself hurt the engine but I would be careful of the source. I haven't done much research, but personal experience dictates that some WVO just makes your diesel run like sh**. Yes it may run for 100,000 miles or more just fine but I expect 10x that out of mine. There are some references I can dig up regarding WVO and biodiesel as fuels. They generally require washing, dewatering, and "neutralizing" in my opinion. FFA's, salts, and water make yoru diesel sad [:(][:(]

Acetone is probably not a very good idea. Yes it's very dilute but i'd be worried nonetheless. I'm a chemical engineer/biochemical engineer and run an organic chemistry lab presently- and while i haven't done any specific research on the subject, i would simply not do it to MY benz. Such a simple/obvious solution does not exist. The claims are exaggerated. Also, using common sense, if fuel economy increased-- this means one of only a limited number of possibilitites. The engine runs cooler, the burning is more complete, acetone is more energy dense, the compression increased (etc, etc). I've read the theory and if it was so, than acetone would be sold in kragen as an emissions addative with a 500% markup. Whatever- there are things that work better than acetone.
 

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stabmaster - 3/30/2005 8:53 PM

Using synthetic oil avoids supporting foreign oil, and using AMSOIL or the like will avoid supporting foreign oil companies such as Haliburton or other large oil companies.

Also, there are better ways to recycle motor oil. Using it in an oil burner to heat your domestic hot water would be an improvement over natural gas or electricity; both of which depend on unrenewable sources (unless you run photovoltaic panels, or water heating panels).

On other notes: yes you can run diesels on UMO and crude WVO. You can also get it to run on Coca-Cola for about 1 block. WVO doesn't in itself hurt the engine but I would be careful of the source. I haven't done much research, but personal experience dictates that some WVO just makes your diesel run like sh**. Yes it may run for 100,000 miles or more just fine but I expect 10x that out of mine. There are some references I can dig up regarding WVO and biodiesel as fuels. They generally require washing, dewatering, and "neutralizing" in my opinion. FFA's, salts, and water make yoru diesel sad [:(][:(]

Acetone is probably not a very good idea. Yes it's very dilute but i'd be worried nonetheless. I'm a chemical engineer/biochemical engineer and run an organic chemistry lab presently- and while i haven't done any specific research on the subject, i would simply not do it to MY benz. Such a simple/obvious solution does not exist. The claims are exaggerated. Also, using common sense, if fuel economy increased-- this means one of only a limited number of possibilitites. The engine runs cooler, the burning is more complete, acetone is more energy dense, the compression increased (etc, etc). I've read the theory and if it was so, than acetone would be sold in kragen as an emissions addative with a 500% markup. Whatever- there are things that work better than acetone.
I'm sorry, but the eight quarts of oil put in my crankcase every 5000 miles is hardly going to make a difference to oil companies if I use synthetic oil, which is mostly made by oil companies anyway. Just to give you a little perspective, I consume approximately 750 quarts of petrolium fuel every 5000 miles, that eight quarts in my crankcase has little effect on my overall petrolium consumption. There may be better ways of consuming/recycling UMO, most of which consume more fossil fuels, but I'm not buying a house so that I can install an oil burning furnace anytime soon, so untill then I'll burn it in my engine and save some money.
The article on acetone was tested and scientifically supported. You said yourself you haven't done any research on the matter, so how can you say it's a bad idea? If there are things out there that work better than acetone, which means that they would have to increase fuel economy by more than 35%, WHAT ARE THEY AND WHY AREN'T THEY ADVERTISED? The best claim I've ever heard for increasing fuel economy boasts "up to 15% gains." That means you could get nothing, or you might get that 15% if you're really lucky. Plenty of simple, obvious solutions do exhist, we're just too damn stupid to put them into effect. Variable valve timing for example allows an engine to produce the power of an engine nearly twice it's size while consuming the fuel of an engine nearly half it's size. Why don't more engines incorporate variable valve timing? Most Japanese makes do at a competitive price, but only a couple American models do at a much higher cost. I could go on, but why bother.
 

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The gas station that's a few blocks from me sells Diesels at $2.69.

I'm just curious, if you use home 'red' diesel, how could other people tell you're using it? When its burnt, how can you tell its red? On the otherhand, how do you get it from your tank?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The dye in the fuel oil is to identify it as "untaxed" as road use fuel. On commercial vehicles the color is easily seen. Our cars show the fuel color only at the prefilter. I siphoned from the tank in the cellar but have since bought a horizontal 275 gallon tank I can use just for the tractor and car. Check your tank. Usually there a 2" filler line and a 1 1/2" breather alarm, ( to let you know when the tanks about full). I found a 3rd opening on top, grabbed a 5 gal jerry can and some hose.
Will probably use a manual hand pump on the new tank.
When the heating season's over I hoping for a drop in prices and will load up then. Now burning fuel that cost between $1.659 a gal to $1.999. But still less than the pump.
 
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